I'm so surprised that throwing in a little extra is so horrifying to so many people. If you think tips aren't important try working in the service industry and you'll soon change your mind. I feel so warm when putting in cash and saying keep the change and seeing my server's face light up. You should try it sometime if you haven't, the positive feeling is worth way more than the pieces of paper you give up for it.
Pressing "NO TIP" when paying your barber is one of the most awkward interactions
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OP walking out with the most bizarre cuts each time if he is a regular lol.
Bustanen
Member
But barbers aren't tip based workers. Doing an OK job is not enough to warrant a tip, truly great service is another thing entirely.
As pointed out many times in this thread, barbers are indeed tip based workers in the US.
Also a tip is a service charge, a flexible service charge. When you decide to not tip someone, youre telling them that they didn't do an OK job even, youre telling them you don't believe their service is worth any money.
StopMakingSense
Member
For fuck's sake this has been explained many, many, many times in this thread, they are probably the MOST tip-based workers.
In the US they usually a) are contractors and aren't paid a wage b) rent their chair space c) make a tiny cut on the fee itself, which all basically goes into the rental fee d) buy their own supplies
Tips are how they make their money.
PatThePassive
Member
Well said.
Ninja Scooter
Member
"I have a no-tip policy for hair cutters because I don't want to enable tips becoming an obligatory thing for the hair industry, like restaurants."
Paying is paying someone for a service. Just sounds open to abuse to me. Who's to judge if someone worked hard or not? Working hard should be the standard.
Bustanen
Member
Youre missing the point. Tipping exists because instead of including the service fee on the cost of a meal or whatever, you pay it directly to the server. It's not just giving people free money. You are paying them directly for their service instead of the employer charging you more on the bill and then giving that percentage to the employee.
Youre right, it is open to abuse, by people who are completely ignorant on how or why tipping exists and then come up with asinine justifcations for being cheap.
Pops Maellard
Member
Neither is tipping.
Change the menu pricing then. Incorporate it however you want, but I'm not paying some abitrary bullshit tax on top of my meal cost directly to my server. It's shockingly irrational. Especially given that it allows me some completely unfair ability to judge their work, as for some reason it's socially acceptable to tip less for whatever you perceive as "good" service and more for the inverse. Absolute madness.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
The tip culture is strange. Is it something bosses do to avoid paying taxes?
Just give employees a decent salary!
(And... List tax in the price of items lol)
That said, if you are in the US and not tipping you are actively fucking over the weakest.
Just give employees a decent salary!
(And... List tax in the price of items lol)
That said, if you are in the US and not tipping you are actively fucking over the weakest.
PatThePassive
Member
It is open to abuse, see all the people talking about how they refuse to tip because its a broken system, they are getting paid enough, working hard should be the standard.
You tip as a appreciation of their service (the person themselves) your payment is the businesses.
You pay for the food and the server bringing everything to you, the tip is for if they(and they always do from my experience) show the effort making sure you are set on everything, drinks, silverware, is it cooked right and the tip is a small personal thank you for it.
How self absorbed do you have to be to not be willing to express appreciation to someone else or feel that expressing appreciation is a scam out to get you.
Hell in my State servers are entitled to at least minimum wage but you still tip out of courtesy.
And for the "include it on the menu" people its basic math to combine about how much what you are getting will total up to and add 20%(minimum) of that for the tip, its really not that hard.
Its purely a personal connection thing people don't see you when they are buying the TV, I worked a Job in an after school program watching peoples kids(a lot of labor and putting up with shit as well as I am entrusted with protecting their kids) and never got a tip but that's no reason not to tip.
I love how everyone who uses the idiotic "pay them a fair wage" argument thinks if that happens they finally won't have to pay as much money for services.
The service fee would be included in the bill, and the price of everything would go up. Your still giving the server a service fee, you would just no longer have the option of rewarding excellent service.
The service fee would be included in the bill, and the price of everything would go up. Your still giving the server a service fee, you would just no longer have the option of rewarding excellent service.
Conkerkid11
Member
Yikes, I'm afraid to read past the first page. What's up with GAF and tips? Why do so many of you think people who don't tip are scum?
I've said it a thousand times in previous GAF tipping threads, but I work a manual labor job in a FedEx Ground warehouse. I do a shit ton more work at a minimum wage job than a hairdresser or a waiter. I don't get tips. Why does someone else doing a basic ass job get paid significantly more than me, solely because they've managed to convince people that it's normal to pay them a random amount of money on top of the amount that their service is already valued at?
Pay $60 for this video game, but also throw in a random amount in support of the devs who busted their asses getting this to you on the date their publisher set for them.
Pay $1,500 for this TV, but also throw in a random amount in support of all the people busting their asses in warehouses dealing with your big ass heavy box, and quite possibly the delivery guy who brought it to your front door.
Why does it end at, "but he wrote down the things I named from the restaurant's menu, and brought them to me..." or, "but he cut my hair."
But I highly fucking doubt that the 10 minutes I sit in that chair at the barber is $15 plus tip worth of a service.
I don't work hard at my job because I expect more money for it, and neither should those who receive tips. That's completely ass backwards. Just do your fucking job.
And self absorbed? Why doesn't every job carry this entitlement then? Why am I not given 15% extra at my job? The encouragement you should need to do your damn job every day is the fact that it's your source of income, and that you don't want to get fired and lose that source of income.
I've said it a thousand times in previous GAF tipping threads, but I work a manual labor job in a FedEx Ground warehouse. I do a shit ton more work at a minimum wage job than a hairdresser or a waiter. I don't get tips. Why does someone else doing a basic ass job get paid significantly more than me, solely because they've managed to convince people that it's normal to pay them a random amount of money on top of the amount that their service is already valued at?
Pay $60 for this video game, but also throw in a random amount in support of the devs who busted their asses getting this to you on the date their publisher set for them.
Pay $1,500 for this TV, but also throw in a random amount in support of all the people busting their asses in warehouses dealing with your big ass heavy box, and quite possibly the delivery guy who brought it to your front door.
Why does it end at, "but he wrote down the things I named from the restaurant's menu, and brought them to me..." or, "but he cut my hair."
I don't care about this because of the cost. If something off the menu at a restaurant costs $20, make it say that on the menu. Big deal.
But I highly fucking doubt that the 10 minutes I sit in that chair at the barber is $15 plus tip worth of a service.
I don't work hard at my job because I expect more money for it, and neither should those who receive tips. That's completely ass backwards. Just do your fucking job.
Holy shit. How can you post this and actually believe what you're saying? Why is someone being encouraged to do their job beyond the fact that they're already receiving their income from it? "Wow, you did your job today. That's great. Here's 15% extra!" Why? That doesn't make any sense.
And self absorbed? Why doesn't every job carry this entitlement then? Why am I not given 15% extra at my job? The encouragement you should need to do your damn job every day is the fact that it's your source of income, and that you don't want to get fired and lose that source of income.
Bustanen
Member
Where is this?
Yes but people are not forced to pay more than they expect to pay. What is so hard to understand about that? I understand that this is different in the US cause of that shitty system, but elsewhere a tip is a reward for a astounshing service.
In the Us most people already expect to pay a 15 to 20 percent service charge to people providing a service to them.
Which is what is confusing for many for us including the reasoning of "But they wont fuck up next time then" ... ehm they can be glad that I will come to their shop the next time too? But seems to work for the US.
PatThePassive
Member
California, they get minimum wage before tips and you still tip because again its a sign of appreciation.
See my response above and you seem to take the whole not receiving tips thing as a personal insult.
The mindset of "How dare they have the balls to ask for more of my money when I dont get tips!"
"Why doesn't every job carry this entitlement then?"
Really, is the whole argument just shouting Its not fair!
Maybe I'm biased, the first waitress I knew was the mom of a childhood friend and was a friend of my parents, my friend had lost his little brother and father in a fire and she got the job after.
When I see people talking about not tipping I take it as them screwing over someone like her and it rubs me the wrong way
You Are Viewtiful
Member
First off, wages are not based on how hard you work, but on supply and demand. Your job being harder than a hairdressers is beside the point.
Secondly, do you really think 'I get paid shit so others should get paid shit too' is a good argument? Sounds to me you should be clamouring for tips at your job if you really want a higher wage. Instead, it sounds like you want others to have a lower income? :s
You might not be an asshole, but tipping 40% extra when you've already paid the service charge is just plain dumb. Would you tip a GameStop employee an extra 20% on top of what you paid for the game simple because they did their job and sold you a game? Nah, didn't think so. The rule of thumb applies for restaurants and barbers, too. You've already paid them for the service/meal, if they want a tip, they can take it out of that. I'm not paying extra.
In the case of a barber at least, it's skilled labor.
Journalism is a skilled trade and requires years of hard work and education. Graphic design is the same. Supermarket assistants require training, as do chefs, police, firemen, ambulance drivers, doctors, nurses, painters, gardeners...I could go on, but I think you get the point. They're all trained and skilled at their job but guess what? Not one of them receives tips. They get their weekly/monthly wage - and that's it.
StopMakingSense
Member
(IN THE US) When you pay for a haircut you are paying the shop, not the barber. The barber gets a very small cut. In addition they rent their chair space and have to pay for all of their materials. If you do not pay a tip the barber is either making very little for your haircut (or even theoretically losing money). They are considered contractors, they do not earn an hourly wage.
Bustanen
Member
Yeah but maybe 10%. Funny thing is that when I last visited California that was the normal rate.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
I never tip. I dont give a damn. Employers pay you, not me.
PatThePassive
Member
A lot dogmatic Taylorism form non tippers in this tread, and backhanded I'm smarter for not tipping people.
There is a human aspect to some jobs and it has become the norm to tip those people.
Your no Rosa Parks fighting the tipping empire, or renegade destroying us sheep who tip with your renegade intellect.
You just seem like people I wouldn't go to a Denny's with cause I would have to cover your part of the tip.
I was taught 20% was the base, it differs from person to person.
Don't leave this part out, "There is a human aspect to some jobs.."
Arguing that its "not fair!" is childish naive and dumb,
There is a human aspect to some jobs and it has become the norm to tip those people.
Your no Rosa Parks fighting the tipping empire, or renegade destroying us sheep who tip with your renegade intellect.
You just seem like people I wouldn't go to a Denny's with cause I would have to cover your part of the tip.
I was taught 20% was the base, it differs from person to person.
Don't leave this part out, "There is a human aspect to some jobs.."
Arguing that its "not fair!" is childish naive and dumb,
Conkerkid11
Member
You'd better start tipping a shit ton of other people, because there's a lot more skilled labor out there than barbers.
Also, this doesn't explain waiters.
Arguing that it's okay because it's the norm is dumb.
I want their income to be based off their wage, rather than an arbitrary amount of additional money given to them by their customers like every other job in existence.
Ignoring the part where nearly everybody in this thread is shitting on OP for not tipping his barber.
Also, yes, a large part of my argument is exactly that. It's not fair. Why should one job get a tip, and another job none?
Also, neat story and personal connection, but that's irrelevant. People don't tip because the waiter or hairdresser has had horrible things happen in their past, and they desperately need any extra money they can get. Everybody in here is saying they tip because they like the work the employee does. You don't get to shame people for not tipping, because you see it as them screwing over that employee. That doesn't make sense. The customer is not the employer. The customer isn't there to pay the employee's wage. The customer isn't there to determine whether or not the employee did a good job, and pay them based on how well they think they did. An employer is supposed to be capable of looking at their employees, and increasing their wages and/or promoting them based on how well they perform.
It really isn't, but okay.
Literally admitting that employers are in the wrong, but somehow customers are responsible. Also, "fucking over the weakest"? You are aware that there are jobs that pay the same, and in some cases even less, than the jobs that tip?
PatThePassive
Member
A lot of non tippers are in here as well, you said earlier you didn't even want to look at earlier pages.
Its not fair is a poor reason to not tip, you look upset you dont get tips and thats the whole reason you don't, its selfish
I gave the example were I had to sign a contract saying I would protect kids lives and liberty when at work no matter what, that's a little more important then handling food or boxes but I'm not upset I didn't get any tips or think I shouldn't tip others
The personal story was me taking a step back and acknowledging why I so strongly disagree, something you seem incapable of so instead you keep repeating that its not fair, instead of looking at what ever has you so upset that others receiving tips upsets you
People tip for different reasons, for me the handling of me when I'm eating or mostly picking my hair for the next months is a personal interaction that when I enjoy I feel like a tip is a good sign and reward for that service to the person not the business.
I response equivalent to "nu uh!" good counter point.
Jawmuncher
Member
What if everything was free?
its disappointing that being a barber is being compared to other jobs and people are saying like but you get paid by your "employer". The costumer is the barber's employer and they spend like $300 or $400 to just stand in the shop. Your money helps put them in the positive to actually earn something if the situation allows it.
You can give a waiter $200 tip and they can buy a few drinks but barber isn't buying a few drinks with that money or anything extra.
You can give a waiter $200 tip and they can buy a few drinks but barber isn't buying a few drinks with that money or anything extra.
Say you got the same haircut for $15, would you tip then?
You Are Viewtiful
Member
But... Why? "Because everyone is doing it" is not a good argument. If you're a waiter or barber, you want to maximize your wage, and if tips are a better way to do that than a set wage, the you'd want to receive tips.
Costa Kid
Member
So how much is a two or three course meal in the US?
Why is this behaviour only for food service and not other jobs? There are some jobs that are tougher than being a waiter and get very little pay. The logic you provided could be applied to so many other service jobs or jobs in general. I'm genuinely curious.
Okay, I used to work in the service industry, (not exactly food though) and tipping is a mess. Y'all people that are tipping $20 on a $10-15 haircut are tipping way too much. $5 is plenty. Don't make people feel shitty just because you have a superiority complex that makes you think you're better than everyone for tipping more than the price of the actual service.
My sons Haircut is $12, we always just pay his barber with a $20.
I appreciate how he works with my 3 yr old and takes time to switch his TV to Paw Patrol or w/e else is on as he cuts his hair. Its not easy cutting the hair of a small child lol.
and like others said, he pays the shop to rent his chair so in reality he is basically working for tips....yes its prolly a messed up system but i would feel terrible not tipping him.
and where the hell are people going for a haircut that costs so much....$80 for a damn hair cut? WTF.... Glad i just shave my head lol
I appreciate how he works with my 3 yr old and takes time to switch his TV to Paw Patrol or w/e else is on as he cuts his hair. Its not easy cutting the hair of a small child lol.
and like others said, he pays the shop to rent his chair so in reality he is basically working for tips....yes its prolly a messed up system but i would feel terrible not tipping him.
and where the hell are people going for a haircut that costs so much....$80 for a damn hair cut? WTF.... Glad i just shave my head lol
Conkerkid11
Member
Okay? And that's a problem with that line of work that needs to be fixed by the employer, not the customer.
Who is doing this in the thread? I must have missed it.
Sorry that not everyone agrees with a flawed system, why do you think this issue crops up on GAF so much? Not everyone that disagrees with tipping is a selfish asshole. In my country, it's not a custom and no one in the service industry complains. In fact, even people who say they tip, don't do so anywhere close to the extreme of 20%. Usually, at the end of the meal everyone turns out their pockets for loose change that can't amount to even 5% of the total. If you don't like that, that's fine but if I had to pay 20% extra every time I ate out, I never would.
You actively look for change? Isn't it more like the meal cost 18.56 and you are paying 20 because you don't want the change?
Anyway, I'm with the others who say the US system is messed up because it obviously is.
Dude, if you aren't in the US, that extra 20% is a service fee that is included in the price of your meal. No need to tip.
In the US, the service fee is not included in the bill, hence tipping.
jerry0wilson
Member
I tip $20 every time. The cut is $25 but she also does a hand massage with lotion, washes my hair, trims eye brows, cleans hair line with a razor blade and ends it with a hot towel on the face. Way above and beyond and it's very relaxing.
It seems lost on people they just rent a chair in the shop, they are not employed by the shop. Thus no benafits or insurance. They start every day in the hole due to the shop fees.
It seems lost on people they just rent a chair in the shop, they are not employed by the shop. Thus no benafits or insurance. They start every day in the hole due to the shop fees.
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