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[LostCaress]

Is part of the divide between US and non-US also because of the difference in expectation of the type of service? When I go to the restaurant the waiter takes my order and brings me food, and that's it. I don't really seem how they can stand out that much. Seems like in the US they are more interactive?

 

[MazeHaze]

Never tipped my barber ever and I think tipping as a whole is ridiculous and shouldn't exist, it shouldn't have to rely on the customer to either a) reward the staff for excellent service (because it should be the norm anyways) and b) supplement the staff wages because the company doesn't pay its staff a reasonable wage.

As has been pointed out numerous times, you aren't supplementing staff wages because the company doesn't pay a reasonable wage. If their wage wasn't tip based and their employee was paid a higher wage, that extra labor cost would be reflected in the price of your total bill. Tip based industries simply have the customer pay the server directly for their services instead of charging you for it on the bill and then giving it back to the servers.

Like, even if they just raised their prices and got rid of tipping, you would still be giving money to the server, it would just go through the restaurant first. With a tip based system, you eliminate the middle man for that portion of their wage.

For restaurants, profit is based on the net money taken in for the day, and then you subtract the cost of labor (how much you had to pay employees) and food cost (the amount of money it cost you to make the food that you serve). If labor cost goes up, they still have to make the same profit margin, therefore the price of menu items would also go up, or you would pay a flat service fee to make up for the inflated labor cost.

 

[cordy]

Some of you guys just still aren't getting it.
We should just close this because it's getting redundant.

Yep.

I'm seeing people bitch and whine about "the system" like the people who tip don't know what the system is and what we're doing. Secondly, I don't think people know exactly how much these people are getting paid in general and what that means to the system they work under. People seems to be comparing Target workers and their pay to those of barbers, that's completely different lol. Like I said, you aren't gonna compare Billy's pay at Best Buy to that of Ken the barber or Sarah the server.

We might need to close this thread up lol.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I dont understand the tipping culture in US. Doing a good job is expected of them, its professionalism.

I can understand leaving a good feedback to their supervisor about their performance or saying thanks, but not tipping. Its the job of their company to issue monetary reward for good performance.

I wish it was this way, but tipping has been part of our culture for a long time.

 

[entremet]

Bruh....

 

[MazeHaze]

I wish it was this way, but tipping has been part of our culture for a long time.

It might be easier if we simplify it further to illustrate the point.

Basically, the restaurant pays a very low hourly wage for the server to do their tasks such as rolling silverware, cleaning etc. This is their 3-5 dollar hourly wage.

THEN, the customer pays the server to bring them drinks, take their order, answer any questions, accommodate special requests, and bring their food out. This is the tip.

If you don't think having someone wait on you and bring you food and refills is worth the extra 5 to 10 dollars, there's a wonderful option for you called carryout.

Edit: In non tip based countries and places, all of this is wrapped into one wage. Working for tips is basically split wages, with the employer paying you for all of your daily duties, and the customer paying the restaurant for the food, and then paying the server for their service.

 

[M0nochromatic]

It's a shame that despite all of this highly intellectual debate for thread after thread, we never actually find a solution or common ground.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Also, a "prices are cheaper because of tipping" argument is stupid, and whoever says that is uninformed. That's not the point of tipping. The point is to allow the customer to have some wiggle room on the service fee based on how they feel the service was. This encourages improvement, and also let's a server know if they've adequately responded to a customers needs. It also helps the entire staff work together smoothly by encouraging team work, as most servers either split their tips or have to give a percentage of them to the table bussers at the end of the night. There are a few different models in the industry, but the one constant is: you pay for your meal and the majority of that goes straight to the restaurant, then you pay the service fee to your server (a tip). This fee is flexible instead of a fixed rate attached to the bill.

People should pay attention to the ones in the kitchen as well. More often than not the ones in the kitchen worked way harder than the ones doing the service, especially in meals for large groups, and yet the kitchen guys for some reason are largely left out of the conversation, which is incredibly unfair to them.

I should know, I worked in kitchen for quite a while and it was hellish, much more so than when I worked as a waiter, and yet it seems like no one cares about the kitchen staff. If the *mandatory* thing to do is to left a tip to the servers, then it should also be a *mandatory* thing to tip the kitchen staff. Now tell me, how many of you actually bother to also ensure that the kitchen staff are also tipped?

 

[toastyToast]

Is part of the divide between US and non-US also because of the difference in expectation of the type of service? When I go to the restaurant the waiter takes my order and brings me food, and that's it. I don't really seem how they can stand out that much. Seems like in the US they are more interactive?

If they're good at their job and want to keep it they'll still do all that. Then at the end of the week they get a reasonable wage because what the fuck is wrong with you guys

 

[xxracerxx]

People should pay attention to the ones in the kitchen as well. More often than not the ones in the kitchen worked way harder than the ones doing the service, especially in meals for large groups, and yet the kitchen guys for some reason are largely left out of the conversation, which is incredibly unfair to them.

I should know, I worked in kitchen for quite a while and it was hellish, much more so than when I worked as a waiter, and yet it seems like no one cares about the kitchen staff. If the *mandatory* thing to do is to left a tip to the servers, then it should also be a *mandatory* thing to tip the kitchen staff. Now tell me, how many of you actually bother to also ensure that the kitchen staff are also tipped?

A ton of places pools tip with all workers and split it evenly. At least here in Portland.

 

[Messofanego]

It's a shame that despite all of this highly intellectual debate for thread after thread, we never actually find a solution or common ground.

I think it'd be bipartisan support for removing the tipping industry and replacing with good wages if that was genuinely possible.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I'm not sure if this is really true. I'm not american so I'm probably wrong but judging on what I see in GAF threads about tipping It feels to me as tipping is something expected more than a reward, and no tipping makes you be a cheap (and for some,a free pass to do your job badly).

At the end we agree that you have to pay one way or another but I feel a no tipping service is more clear to the customer and avoids this tension about tip or not tip, or how much, and the problems that can come between the employee and the customer.

A ~15-20% tip is standard fare. I would say 'mandatory', but you don't have to pay it if you think the service was bad. If the service worker becomes lazy, you could choose not to tip them, so there's a disincentive for slacking off. If they go above and beyond, then you can tip them more than 20%, which provides an incentive to work harder.

The problem when the service charge is included is that you have no choice to not pay for the service if it was lousy or appalling.

 

[Laughing Banana]

A ton of places pools tip with all workers and split it evenly. At least here in Portland.

Hopefully the business establishments can be trusted to actually do that fairly then.

 

[Two Words]

So you want to give a blanket pay cut to an entire industry of people who already make less than 30k a year typically?

Again, you aren't tipping to make up for employers "paying them shit"
You are tipping because you give the server the service fee directly instead of it being included in your bill the way it is in other countries.

I order a $100 meal when eating out with the family. The waiter gets a $20 tip. I guarantee you that the establishment would not be needing to pay that waiter $20 for the little time they took care of us. Let's say we were there for an hour. That waiter would have been helping several other parties as well in that hour. The money the waiter makes in tips would be not be anything close to the amount of money that the restaurant would have to pay the waiter. The costs would not go up proportionally.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I order a $100 meal when eating out with the family. The waiter gets a $20 tip. I guarantee you that the establishment would not be needing to pay that waiter $20 for the little time they took care of us. Let's say we were there for an hour. That waiter would have been helping several other parties as well in that hour. The money the waiter makes in tips would be not be anything close to the amount of money that the restaurant would have to pay the waiter. The costs would not go up proportionally.

In my experience, going with family (I'm guessing 4+ people) incurs an automatic gratuity charge (usually 15%) in a lot of "non-tipping" countries.

 

[ArtHands]

You don't tip a Mcdonalds cashier because it's not a tip-based job, they get paid 5 dollars an hour more than servers do. They also don't really wait on you. Their wage is incorporated into the price of your food. They get paid less than servers typically make, because serving is a harder job that requires more skill than ringing people out at Mcdonalds.

This really isn't so hard you guys.

So basically, if the servers get paid as much or more than those in the non tip-based jobs, and that the wage of the servers get incorporated into the price of the food, people won't hand out extra tips and we can all avoid the awkward situations.

 

[Gradon]

If a non-tipping - normal wage waiter and barber jobs can work in pretty much every country that's not America, then it can work in America if they get payed a normal wage like everybody else. Tipping culture is weird.

 

[Easy_D]

If a non-tipping - normal wage waiter and barber jobs can work in pretty much every country that's not America, then it can work in America if they get payed a normal wage like everybody else. Tipping culture is weird.

Yeah. Over here you tip when you feel you've gotten great service, not because it's expected of you lol. Don't get me wrong, tips are still a big source of income, but it doesn't make or break your living in the same way it seems to in the US.

 

[Wizard of GAF]

In my experience, going with family (I'm guessing 4+ people) incurs an automatic gratuity charge (usually 15%) in a lot of "non-tipping" countries.

LOOOOOOOL CMONN!!! Are you serious?? Apply this logic to your mailman who has to deliver a bigger parcel for you.

Tipping should be based on exceptional and or consistent performance/service that you receive. Not under the ruse of morally supporting their financial stability, among other things that should not be the customers issue.

I understand the service fee is taken out of the bill, but this raises the question: if it were merged back into account would be okay with the bill changing each time (price of food would stay the same) because the server had done more work this time round?

Ultimately another question arises: would you be okay with servers dictating the tip, since they know the worth of their service. To a limited degree of course.

The tipping culture (whilst going nowhere) is toxic. Akin to moral-strong-arming in the most subtle manner, near hostage. I see no reason as to why the service fee would or should stay apart from the bill. All this leads to is moral high horses. It should be legally binding if people deem it so important to said industry.

 

[zoodoo]

You get your haircut and don't pay with cash? My barber has a square app that that lets me swipe my card, but not handing my guy a crisp 20 after he lines me up just feels wrong.

How much do you pay for your haircut? 20 is a lot for tip. My haircut costs me 25 when I go expensive places. I usually tip 2 to 5 bucks.

 

[Qvoth]

i've heard of tipping the people who wash your hair, but not to the barber themselves
unless your barber actually washes your hair, which would be kinda strange imo

 

[AxeMan]

In my experience, going with family (I'm guessing 4+ people) incurs an automatic gratuity charge (usually 15%) in a lot of "non-tipping" countries.

What? Never heard of this in Australia.

The menu has a price and that's all I pay. The cost doesn't go up just because I've a few people with me

 

[Minus_Me]

What? Never heard of this in Australia.

The menu has a price and that's all I pay. The cost doesn't go up just because I've a few people with me

Usually applies to larger groups.

10 or more people usually. I've seen it as low as 5 I think in a few of countries.

 

[Karish]

Tip them dude

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

What? Never heard of this in Australia.

The menu has a price and that's all I pay. The cost doesn't go up just because I've a few people with me

It was in the UK.

LOOOOOOOL CMONN!!! Are you serious?? Apply this logic to your mailman who has to deliver a bigger parcel for you.

Mail carriers earn a comfortable middle-class income. I just checked and it's around $25/hr here in Canada. I doubt they'd clamour for below minimum wage+tips to be honest.

Tipping should be based on exceptional and or consistent performance/service that you receive. Not under the ruse of morally supporting their financial stability, among other things that should not be the customers issue.

Why though?

I understand the service fee is taken out of the bill, but this raises the question: if it were merged back into account would be okay with the bill changing each time (price of food would stay the same) because the server had done more work this time round?

Ultimately another question arises: would you be okay with servers dictating the tip, since they know the worth of their service. To a limited degree of course.

The tipping culture (whilst going nowhere) is toxic. Akin to moral-strong-arming in the most subtle manner, near hostage. I see no reason as to why the service fee would or should stay apart from the bill. All this leads to is moral high horses. It should be legally binding if people deem it so important to said industry.

It already is like that. If the server does a more than exceptional job in serving you, then you tip them more than is customary. The price of food remains the same.

I see it more as a quantified feedback system, and also a way to incentivize good work. The moral strong-arming is there to shame the stingy people who don't tip so they can freeload, but people who genuinely received a bad service and didn't tip aren't shamed.

 

[Two Words]

It was in the UK.




Mail carriers earn a comfortable middle-class income. I just checked and it's around $25/hr here in Canada. I doubt they'd clamour for below minimum wage+tips to be honest.



Why though?



It already is like that. If the server does a more than exceptional job in serving you, then you tip them more than is customary. The price of food remains the same.

I see it more as a quantified feedback system, and also a way to incentivize good work. The moral strong-arming is there to shame the stingy people who don't tip so they can freeload, but people who genuinely received a bad service and didn't tip aren't shamed.

You don't see a problem with constructing a system where somebody has to be paid $20 by people who are just there to eat so that you'll take their order, bring their food and refill their drinks every a couple of times while being nice?

 

[Dude Abides]

You don't see a problem with constructing a system where somebody has to be paid $20 by people who are just there to eat so that you'll take their order, bring their food and refill their drinks every a couple of times while being nice?

Oh my god not a whole $20!! If you don't think the person who takes your order and brings your food deserves to be paid for it there's a great place for you to eat. It's called home.

 

[MazeHaze]

Oh my god not a whole $20!! If you don't think the person who takes your order and brings your food deserves to be paid for it there's a great place for you to eat. It's called home.

Yep. There's also another delightful option called carryout.

Ive explained numerous times in this thread why tipping exists, and how it works. I've tried to explain and break down how it's a split wage paid by the employer and the patron

I've learned that none of this matters, and everyone who is anti-tipping is either not from the US, or is a cheap ass who completely understands the system, but pretends not to and cries "durrrrr, why do I have to pay their wage!?durrr"

Newsflash: whether the service fee is included in the bill, or you get to choose how much of a service fee to pay (tips) you are still paying their wage. Some of you guys are so ridiculously uninformed it makes me honestly doubt this community as a whole.

 

[MazeHaze]

You don't see a problem with constructing a system where somebody has to be paid $20 by people who are just there to eat so that you'll take their order, bring their food and refill their drinks every a couple of times while being nice?

If you don't want to pay someone to wait on you, just get carryout. It'll be the same price you pay normally, but you won't have to deal with the shame of being a dipshit who doesn't understand that services cost money.

Edit: also a 20 dollar tip would be on a 100+ dollar bill. Average bills in my experience are around 30 or 40 per person, so 5 to 10 dollars.

And again. YOU ARE PAYING THE RESTAURANT FOR THE FOOD, THAT'S YOUR BILL. YOU PAY THE SERVER FOR THE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY WAITED ON YOU.

A tip is not pity money because the evil employer is taking advantage of the employee. you are the evil employer taking advantage of the employee when you don't tip. YOU PAY THE SERVER DIRECTLY FOR THE SERVICE.


Don't like it? Learn to cook.

Unless the service is unbelievably bad, if you don't tip, you are a huge ignorant asshole and have no idea how tip based wages work.

 

[ArtHands]

Yep. There's also another delightful option called carryout.

Ive explained numerous times in this thread why tipping exists, and how it works. I've tried to explain and break down how it's a split wage paid by the employer and the patron

I've learned that none of this matters, and everyone who is anti-tipping is either not from the US, or is a cheap ass who completely understands the system, but pretends not to and cries "durrrrr, why do I have to pay their wage!?durrr"

Newsflash: whether the service fee is included in the bill, or you get to choose how much of a service fee to pay (tips) you are still paying their wage. Some of you guys are so ridiculously uninformed it makes me honestly doubt this community as a whole.

I don't think anyone's saying that they doesn't want to pay their wages. They just prefer to do so through paying for the bill itself as a net amount rather than separating the payment for the meal and their services via tipping, so as to avoid the weird situations. Its also more fair as someone has raised, that people who are behind the scene (kitchen cooks) are working as hard and not earning much yet not getting the tips.

 

[Two Words]

Oh my god not a whole $20!! If you don't think the person who takes your order and brings your food deserves to be paid for it there's a great place for you to eat. It's called home.

I presume you don't pay people $20 to help you shop on expensive equipment and load it up for you? And before you start talking about commission, many places don't do commission.

If you don't want to pay someone to wait on you, just get carryout. It'll be the same price you pay normally, but you won't have to deal with the shame of being a dipshit who doesn't understand that services cost money.

Edit: also a 20 dollar tip would be on a 100+ dollar bill. Average bills in my experience are around 30 or 40 per person, so 5 to 10 dollars.

And again. YOU ARE PAYING THE RESTAURANT FOR THE FOOD, THAT'S YOUR BILL. YOU PAY THE SERVER FOR THE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY WAITED ON YOU.

A tip is not pity money because the evil employer is taking advantage of the employee. you are the evil employer taking advantage of the employee when you don't tip. YOU PAY THE SERVER DIRECTLY FOR THE SERVICE.


Don't like it? Learn to cook.

Unless the service is unbelievably bad, if you don't tip, you are a huge ignorant asshole and have no idea how tip based wages work.

Funny, I don't see how I'm the employer. I didn't hire the waiter, and I certainly can't fire them. I don't recall them being anywhere in my taxes. I tip, so you can stop acting all high and mighty. I just don't have any illusions about what it is really about, and I don't have to pretend it is anything close to a good deal. When I go to a sit-down restaurant, I am there to order and eat food. How that place runs their business is their business. A waiter isn't a whole different part of the service. Why do you think a tip isn't mandatory? And I am sure you don't hold other service areas to this same standard. I used to sell electronics, with no commission, and I was never tipped. There was countless ones that I helped people pick a computer or TV that best suited their needs. Hell, one time I helped a guy save hundreds by showing him how he could get by using a much cheaper computer that we offered.

For some reason, people want to pretend that waiting jobs are these Magic snowflake jobs that just can't be compensated like every other job in the world. It is stupid. The fact is that restaurant owners are just exploiting the custom to save money on paying their staff a proper wage and depending on you feeling good about it to keep it going.

And it is such obvious math that incorporating the service costs into the food would not be the same costs as tipping separately. The truth is that if waiters were paid better and not tipped, they wouldn't make as much money as they made from tips and the food would go up a bit in costs, but not 20% higher. Waiters want tips because it financially benefits them, but we don't need to pretend that it doesn't impact customers.

 

[Rest]

I think it'd be bipartisan support for removing the tipping industry and replacing with good wages if that was genuinely possible.

Then you've never heard of Republicans.

 

[Messofanego]

Then you've never heard of Republicans.

Hehe

 

[Kaleinc]

If you don't want to pay someone to wait on you, just get carryout. It'll be the same price you pay normally, but you won't have to deal with the shame of being a dipshit who doesn't understand that services cost money.

Edit: also a 20 dollar tip would be on a 100+ dollar bill. Average bills in my experience are around 30 or 40 per person, so 5 to 10 dollars.

And again. YOU ARE PAYING THE RESTAURANT FOR THE FOOD, THAT'S YOUR BILL. YOU PAY THE SERVER FOR THE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY WAITED ON YOU.

A tip is not pity money because the evil employer is taking advantage of the employee. you are the evil employer taking advantage of the employee when you don't tip. YOU PAY THE SERVER DIRECTLY FOR THE SERVICE.




Don't like it? Learn to cook.

Unless the service is unbelievably bad, if you don't tip, you are a huge ignorant asshole and have no idea how tip based wages work.

The waiter waited on you because that's his job and the bill covers everyone: owners, cleaners, cookers, security, accountant, waiters. Or maybe you are running around tipping all those guys just in case?
Also regarding

If you don't want to pay someone to wait on you, just get carryout

If you don't want to pay to a farmer, his wife, veterinarian, food inspector, supermarket chain - all separately, don't buy ham - get a pig, raise and slaughter it yourself.

 

[Lord Panda]

I presume you don't pay people $20 to help you shop on expensive equipment and load it up for you? And before you start talking about commission, many places don't do commission.



Funny, I don't see how I'm the employer. I didn't hire the waiter, and I certainly can't fire them. I don't recall them being anywhere in my taxes. I tip, so you can stop acting all high and mighty. I just don't have any illusions about what it is really about, and I don't have to pretend it is anything close to a good deal. When I go to a sit-down restaurant, I am there to order and eat food. How that place runs their business is their business. A waiter isn't a whole different part of the service. Why do you think a tip isn't mandatory? And I am sure you don't hold other service areas to this same standard. I used to sell electronics, with no commission, and I was never tipped. There was countless ones that I helped people pick a computer or TV that best suited their needs. Hell, one time I helped a guy save hundreds by showing him how he could get by using a much cheaper computer that we offered.

For some reason, people want to pretend that waiting jobs are these Magic snowflake jobs that just can't be compensated like every other job in the world. It is stupid. The fact is that restaurant owners are just exploiting the custom to save money on paying their staff a proper wage and depending on you feeling good about it to keep it going.

And it is such obvious math that incorporating the service costs into the food would not be the same costs as tipping separately. The truth is that if waiters were paid better and not tipped, they wouldn't make as much money as they made from tips and the food would go up a bit in costs, but not 20% higher. Waiters want tips because it financially benefits them, but we don't need to pretend that it doesn't impact customers.

Dude, you can't really reason with these guys. It's Stockholm Syndrome at it's finest. Good thing in Japan we don't expect or need tips for goods and services here.

 

[OriginalNameGuy]

I tip because I am thankful for barbers who don't butcher my hair. Even it's just a buck.

 

[MazeHaze]

The waiter waited on you because that's his job and the bill covers everyone: owners, cleaners, cookers, security, accountant, waiters. Or maybe you are running around tipping all those guys just in case?
Also regarding
If you don't want to pay to a farmer, his wife, veterinarian, food inspector, supermarket chain - all separately, don't buy ham - get a pig, raise and slaughter it yourself.

You're argument is disingenuous though. The other professions you mention are not tip based wages. They all get paid a salary that is far above the minimum wage. Servers in the us get paid FAR below the minimum wage, becauase tipping isn't appropriate in certain cultures doesnt mean you should not tip service workers in the US.

Once again. At restaurants in the US, your service fee is not included in the bill, you pay it directly to the server via tips.

It could be included in the bill, but it isn't. So pay the fucking service fee.

 

[MazeHaze]

Dude, you can't really reason with these guys. It's Stockholm Syndrome at it's finest. Good thing in Japan we don't expect or need tips for goods and services here.

It isn't stockholm syndrome at all. You aren't just giving servers "extra free money" so you can "feel good"

In the US, the service fee is SEPERATE from the bill. It's flexible based on service, this is called a tip.

Edit: the word "tip" seems to imply "extra pity charge" for people with no knowledge of the service industry. You can honestly all go fuck yourselves if you live in the US.

 

[Doc_Drop]

It isn't stockholm syndrome at all. You aren't just giving servers "extra free money" so you can "feel good"

In the US, the service fee is SEPERATE from the bill. It's flexible based on service, this is called a tip.

Edit: the word "tip" seems to imply "extra pity charge" for people with no knowledge of the service industry. You can honestly all go fuck yourselves if you live in the US.

I believe the point is that whenever the debates rage on the argument is loosely based on the fact that it's the way it is and therefore people should tip. There isnt much consideration for just paying a decent wage instead of this system, as people say it works out roughly the same, why not allow tipping to reward excellent service rather than being a requirement on the part if the customer? The Stockholm syndrome probably relates to how entrenched in the idea so many of you are

On the other hand, as someone who feels 'required' tipping isn't ideal but has read through a few of these threads, the argument for tipping in relation to being a viable career in services for people with less education or qualifications is a noble one. I'm happy to tip in the US for these reasons, but let's not pretend service industries would crumble if you adopted the system that is in place virtually everywhere else on the planet.

 

[SURGEdude]

People who don't tip because they're "taking a stand" are jerks. People who sincerely want a better system, but tip until then because it's the only way to help people meet ends are fine. I'm very anti-tipping (at least mandatory tipping), but that doesn't mean I won't pay, because I know what it's like living at minimum wage.

This is where I am as well.

Tipping culture is abhorrent, and I feel strongly that minimum wages need to be boosted and loopholes like for servers need to be fixed. The fact that restaurants get essentially nearly free labor is shameful.

But while I make sure and support those causes I don't think it does anyone any good to screw the person until the system changes.

To pretend it's some moral stand against the man is shameful.

To those of you who live in more enlightened places where tipping is not relied on be thankful. It's a shit system.

 

[MazeHaze]

I believe the point is that whenever the debates rage on the argument is loosely based on the fact that it's the way it is and therefore people should tip. There isnt much consideration for just paying a decent wage instead of this system, as people say it works out roughly the same, why not allow tipping to reward excellent service rather than being a requirement on the part if the customer? The Stockholm syndrome probably relates to how entrenched in the idea so many of you are

On the other hand, as someone who feels 'required' tipping isn't ideal but has read through a few of these threads, the argument for tipping in relation to being a viable career in services for people with less education or qualifications is a noble one. I'm happy to tip in the US for these reasons, but let's not pretend service industries would crumble if you adopted the system that is in place virtually everywhere else on the planet.

Your'e right that it COULD be different. It isn't though.

It isn't even an argument about less education though. I have TWO bachelor's degrees, but I'm paying off student loans on my way to grad school and have been working in the service industry for 6 years, as is the case with many workers.

It's a requirement on the part of the customer because a server's wages are split. They get paid 3 to 5 dollars an hour for their daily duties, and every table they serve the service fee is a direct engagement between the patron and the server. That's called a tip.

for the 50th time. In other countries, the service fee is included in the bill for your food. You don't need to tip at all.

In the US however, the service fee is a direct transaction between the patron and the server, this fee is flexible based on service. We call this a TIP, but it is in all shapes and forms a SERVICE FEE.

In the US, go ahead and stiff waiters, but you are willingly engaging in a system based on tips, and refusing to pay people for their services.

It isn't 'employers not paying a fair wage! bleahh' It's an entire industry built on a split wage system where employers pay the servers a low wage for their daily duties, and each customer is an individual transaction that pays servers for their service.

 

[Rentahamster]

I tip 20% or more because I believe in a higher minimum wage and wealth redistribution. Apparently a lot of you would rather be cheap asses than put your money where your mouth is.

 

[BHK3]

No tips is why there are no restaurants or barbers in other countries.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Your'e right that it COULD be different. It isn't though.

It isn't even an argument about less education though. I have TWO bachelor's degrees, but I'm paying off student loans on my way to grad school and have been working in the service industry for 6 years, as is the case with many workers.

It's a requirement on the part of the customer because a server's wages are split. They get paid 3 to 5 dollars an hour for their daily duties, and every table they serve the service fee is a direct engagement between the patron and the server. That's called a tip.

for the 50th time. In other countries, the service fee is included in the bill for your food. You don't need to tip at all.

In the US however, the service fee is a direct transaction between the patron and the server, this fee is flexible based on service. We call this a TIP, but it is in all shapes and forms a SERVICE FEE.

In the US, go ahead and stiff waiters, but you are willingly engaging in a system based on tips, and refusing to pay people for their services.

It isn't 'employers not paying a fair wage! bleahh' It's an entire industry built on a split wage system where employers pay the servers a low wage for their daily duties, and each customer is an individual transaction that pays servers for their service.

I understand how it works and engage in said system when required, but when looking at the system from the outside it feels backward.

What would be the reaction say if all of a sudden everybody stopped tipping? would servers and the likes change career? or would you try and change the system so that people earn decent basic wages? Would you be happy with the service charge model in which 15-20% of the bill is added automatically as it is elsewhere.

In the UK there is generally service charge added, servers are paid better,and there's still the opportunity to earn extra tips.

The argument seems to be,that's the way it is so deal

 

[boneyjangles]

When I live a tip is 10%, or less, and it's only at restaurants, but I would be favor of service charge being built into the cost of the meal and not having to deal with bullshit at the end of a meal ever again.

Mandatory tipping for very specific things is like a bug in capitalism that needs to be worked out.

 

[ArtHands]

Your'e right that it COULD be different. It isn't though.

It isn't even an argument about less education though. I have TWO bachelor's degrees, but I'm paying off student loans on my way to grad school and have been working in the service industry for 6 years, as is the case with many workers.

It's a requirement on the part of the customer because a server's wages are split. They get paid 3 to 5 dollars an hour for their daily duties, and every table they serve the service fee is a direct engagement between the patron and the server. That's called a tip.

for the 50th time. In other countries, the service fee is included in the bill for your food. You don't need to tip at all.

In the US however, the service fee is a direct transaction between the patron and the server, this fee is flexible based on service. We call this a TIP, but it is in all shapes and forms a SERVICE FEE.

In the US, go ahead and stiff waiters, but you are willingly engaging in a system based on tips, and refusing to pay people for their services.

It isn't 'employers not paying a fair wage! bleahh' It's an entire industry built on a split wage system where employers pay the servers a low wage for their daily duties, and each customer is an individual transaction that pays servers for their service.

so basically we agree that tipping system is a flawed one, and that people in US are tipping because they can't change the tipping system to have the restaurants adopt service charges like the rest of the world.

 

[mid83]

I can't stand people who refuse to tip. Most waiters/barbers and so on rely on those tips as a major part of their income.

 

[Massive Nights]

In my experience, going with family (I'm guessing 4+ people) incurs an automatic gratuity charge (usually 15%) in a lot of "non-tipping" countries.

This occurs in the UK, but always for like 8+ people, ~4 people is a normal service.

 

[Messofanego]

Your'e right that it COULD be different. It isn't though.

It isn't even an argument about less education though. I have TWO bachelor's degrees, but I'm paying off student loans on my way to grad school and have been working in the service industry for 6 years, as is the case with many workers.

It's a requirement on the part of the customer because a server's wages are split. They get paid 3 to 5 dollars an hour for their daily duties, and every table they serve the service fee is a direct engagement between the patron and the server. That's called a tip.

for the 50th time. In other countries, the service fee is included in the bill for your food. You don't need to tip at all.

In the US however, the service fee is a direct transaction between the patron and the server, this fee is flexible based on service. We call this a TIP, but it is in all shapes and forms a SERVICE FEE.

In the US, go ahead and stiff waiters, but you are willingly engaging in a system based on tips, and refusing to pay people for their services.

It isn't 'employers not paying a fair wage! bleahh' It's an entire industry built on a split wage system where employers pay the servers a low wage for their daily duties, and each customer is an individual transaction that pays servers for their service.

How would you react if tipping is abandoned in the USA? Are you ready for that?

 

[mid83]

How would you react if tipping is abandoned in the USA? Are you ready for that?

That isn't reality. Tipping isn't going to be abandoned here no matter how much people wish it so.

If you don't tip in the US, then you are screwing over those waiters/barbers who rely on those tips for income. Period.