Prime > Prime 2

Ford Prefect

GAAAAAAAAY
This is my conclusion as of acquiring the
gravity boost (the boss shortly thereafter took me down, though :))
.

Am I the only one not thoroughly impressed with Echoes? Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent game (how could it not be, it's the sequel to the best game of the generation). But in comparison with its predecessor, I find it to be a letdown in many ways. For all the praise I've been reading about it surpassing MP, I find that in almost every aspect it's a slight step back.

The graphics, of course, are better (but it's no leap, by any means), but the art and environments have suffered. As cliche as the snow/lava/water/sand areas in the first game were, they impressed me a lot more than the lame sand/bog areas in Echoes. Granted, I haven't seen all the areas yet, so I can't accurately compare the two games in this... area, but Torvus Bog and Agon Wastes have got nothing on Phendrana Drifts or Chozo Ruins - atmospherically or in terms of lay-out. They seem uninspired, really. Kind of boring.

Nothing in the gameplay really comes out and says, "Hey, this is so much better than the first game!," in terms of difficulty, puzzles, etc. I don't really understand all the talk of increased difficulty; I haven't had much trouble at all. I don't enjoy the Dark/Light beams all that much, with limited ammo and no memorable qualities. The Dark/Light world system is interesting, but I don't feel that it adds much to the gameplay or is an improvement over the standard fare.

The music, and this is where I've not really heard any complaints at all, I feel is horrible. I loved the music in the first game, especially Phendrana Drifts and some other areas, notably. But even when the music wasn't anything special, it did a very nice job of just melding into the background and adding to the atmosphere. Echoes on the other hand, if I'm in one area for too long, I have to go and turn the music all the way down, lest I go insane. The best example for this is the music around the area of the downed Troopers ship: CLANG. Ring any bells? Every single measure: CLANG...CLANG...CLANG... it drives me insane.

The immersion and plot just aren't there, either. In the first, I was hypnotized by how awesome it was to infiltrate the Space Pirates' lab and find out all they were doing and thinking from their own computers; about to fall out of my chair by the escaped Metroids about to suck my life away; caring about the Chozos' plight; etc. I could care less about the Luminoth and the Ing. There's just nothing there to care about. I have no sympathy for the Luminoth. The Chozo actually have ties to Samus, and their cause is more dire. The Luminoth are just a species you barely found out existed, on a random planet. The Space Pirates have an ultimate and evil goal, and they are threatening opponents to Samus and the Galactic Federation. The Ing have only an effect on their planet, and who cares about the Luminoth? If it weren't for the fact that the Ing are obviously "evil," I wouldn't know whether to support them or the Luminoth.

Anyway, those are my feelings on Prime's superiority to it sequel. Echoes is still a great game, though. Who knows, maybe it's impossible to top the innovation and excellency of the original, much like Ocarina of Time.

Commence the flaming.
 
snapty00 said:
First Hunt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metroid Prime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Metroid Prime 2
Dead to me. Dead.

Litigation Manuel also made a horrified face when I read aloud the content of your post.
 
I'm glad I rented MP2 instead of purchasing it, saved me $50. Yes I rented for free, ha ha even I am cheap in renting games

I liked some of the boss battles though, especially the ones that used the morph balls
 
BuddyChrist83 said:
Dead to me. Dead.

Litigation Manuel also made a horrified face when I read aloud the content of your post.
:lol

Are my views that popular there?

And did you read out each greater-than sign?
 
snapty00 said:
Are my views that popular there?
Not really, no. I know some people didn't dig Prime that much, but I still find it amazing that someone could prefer a neutered UT2K4 clone to a wonderfully polished adventure. I mean, at least Prime tried.

snapty00 said:
And did you read out each greater-than sign?
Of course.
 
First Hunt rocks. It's the only use of touch screen, outside a few mini-games in Super Mario 64 DS, that actually makes sense. When I took control of the game for the first time, it was difficult to control, but it made a lot of sense.

But it's not really a testament to how great First Hunt is as it is how much the GameCube Prime games are just bloody boring. I guess they polished it so much that they stripped it of its personality altogether.
 
snapty00 said:
But it's not really a testament to how great First Hunt is as it is how much the GameCube Prime games are just bloody boring. I guess they polished it so much that they stripped it of its personality altogether.
To each their own.

I really enjoy the Prime GC series - there's really nothing else quite like them. It's a tad action, a tad adventure, a little puzzle solving. But First Hunt, I just get frustrated and want to play UT2K4.

At the same time, however, I realize that what I love about Prime is the exact thing that turns other people off. But, whatever. I'm sure they like some game I don't.
 
I gotta agree. MP2E is enjoyable, but the game has never really stopped seeming like, "Oh, Metroid Prime was successful, we'd better make a sequel." I like some of the new power-ups, but otherwise the game feels mostly like a second quest to Metroid Prime. Items are in new places, and there are some new bosses, but the basics are either unchanged, or changed for the worse. (I don't like the new beams, either.) Repeating Metroid Prime isn't entirely bad, since Metroid Prime (1) is one of my favorite games this generation, but Echoes just lacks the novelty and creativity that made me like Prime 1 so much. It seems like fewer rooms have interesting layouts and more of them are just "walk through and shoot stuff" :\
 
I enjoyed Metroid Prime better myself. I sold Echoes for 30 dollars EB credit and never looked back. I really don't miss it. I can always replay Prime instead.
 
I found Echoes to be rather too samey and I didn't like the dark world that much. A lot of tedious in/out + cutscene to show Samus diving in/out made the game extremely tedious for me. That said, its still one of the best titles this gen. However, there was a distinctive lack of story in Echoes which I found a bit bleh - more story based cutscenes is needed IMO. Echoes felt lacking. You really were just running from A--->B.

the greatness implemented in Echoes
1) Space JUMP
2) Multi Missle
3) mose great visors

Let's talk about the good. Can't wait to see MP3 but I do think that Retro should have more emphaise on STORYTELLING in the next Metroid (P). It'll need that to stand out in the sea of FPS and most with a great story to tell (see: HALO + HL2).
 
Odnetnin said:
I found Echoes to be rather too samey and I didn't like the dark world that much. A lot of tedious in/out + cutscene to show Samus diving in/out made the game extremely tedious for me. That said, its still one of the best titles this gen. However, there was a distinctive lack of story in Echoes which I found a bit bleh - more story based cutscenes is needed IMO. Echoes felt lacking. You really were just running from A--->B.

the greatness implemented in Echoes
1) Space JUMP
2) Multi Missle
3) mose great visors

Let's talk about the good. Can't wait to see MP3 but I do think that Retro should have more emphaise on STORYTELLING in the next Metroid (P). It'll need that to stand out in the sea of FPS and most with a great story to tell (see: HALO + HL2).
Agreed, a complex story could work great for Metroid. I'd also like to have every single scan be voiced rather than plain ol' text.

And drop the multiplayer, it's not worth it!
 
I'm probably going to be one of the few people who found Echoes to be a better experience. I enjoy the fact that they got away from the typical locales and gave the game an atmosphere that seems more alien. I also think that there are more interesting puzzles in Echoes.
 
The level design in Echoes sucks compared to the one in Prime 1. Even the luminoth fortress. It just doesn't compare to the Chozo Ruins or even the labs in Phazon Mines and Phendrana...
 
First I think you should reach the Sanctuary before judging the art.

Now, that said. I think Prime 1 overall is better than Echoes. This is mostly because of a few things I didn't like about echoes. Mostly: Light/Dark world and beam ammos. And yes that "CLANG!" gave me headaches.

Echoes is still awesome though. I'd say Prime is a 9.5 to 10.0 game while Echoes is 8.5 to 9.0...
 
I'm in total agreement that Metroid Prime 2 is sort of a letdown. I agree with absolutely everything you say so I've got no need to repeat it. I do have some things to add, however: Enemies take too long to defeat and are generally boring to fight. I'm sickenly tired of going into a room for about the 10th time, and oh hey! These monsters you defeated the 9 previous times, you know what? They're back! So let's just waste an additional 5 minutes of your life by having you defeat them again just for the sake of it. It wouldn't be so bad if they were just critters that took a couple of shots. But no, they require about 5-6 charged blasts, and I need to wait for them to be vulnerable to hit them.

Well fuck that. Now I'm just going through the rooms and trying my best to avoid any confrontation whatsoever. It shouldn't be like that. Also, why is it that 90% of the enemies in the game behave exactly like enemies in Metroid Prime 1, except they're skinned differently? It seems like they only put novelty into bosses.

Also concerning the music, there has been only one good song in the entire game, and it happens to be a remix of a Super Metroid song. Way to go!

And to all the people saying "Wait 'til you get to the sanctuary." Well yeah, that part is indeed beautiful. But that's 1/4 of the game. I want the other 3/4 to be as equally inspired and beautiful.
 
I like Echoes more because it is atleast is something different.
I thought Prime was too similar to Super Metroid.
Sure, they're both roughly the same, but Echoes seems "newer" to me than prime did.
(I will say that nothing prime2 comes close to phendrana)
 
I haven't gotten myself to continue playing MP2 after almost getting all the keys. MP2 sucks compared to MP1
 
a) I didn't find any spaces/locales in MP2E to be outstandingly OMGWTF.

b) enemies in Echoes. As learnt from Prime. You don't HAVE to fight them. I mostly race through.There's a reason why they lock the rooms when you fight the dark space pirates.

c) The final boss (not DS) was a letdown.

d) Circular tight room + boss fights occur way too often in MP2E - its as though Retro thought.. "we have our lock on feature.. we have no strafing+free look"... all our bosses shall be in.....

ROUND ROOMS!

boooo urnnn.
 
The game has some of the worst music ever, which is sort of weird since in general I like alot of the music in the Metroid games.
 
SomeDude said:
The game has some of the worst music ever, which is sort of weird since in general I like alot of the music in the Metroid games.

I hope you went expecting a cliched and overdone epic orchestral score?

Cos metroid isnt like that
 
Of course that Prime 2 wont "WOW!!!" anyone... You've already played a game with the same game engine/gameplay, the same style... you already saw and played on which Prime 2 is based... you're not going to have the same 'feeling' that you had with Prime 1...

I'm pretty sure that if Echoes was the first game instead of Prime 1, everybody would say that Prime 2 > Prime 1.
 
awesome game, pity about the music - the tracks in the first (tallon, phendrana, underwater reactor core) are some of my favourite game music , whereas the only one in echoes i really find myself wanting to listen to is the underwater torvus music (which as someone already mentioned is a remixed super metroid track )... they all feel a bit samey, using the same instruments and effects to the point whre you can't really tell them apart.. and in my case, i can't even remember the tunes once the game goes off :(
 
While I agree the music isn't as good and the levels are not up to being as varied as in the first Prime, I think Echoes has a lot of better points than Prime.

- Harder Bosses: I've actually died a handful of times. I don't think I ever died in the first one unless it was on purpose.

- Better morph ball sequences: Really, I'm glad these are much more in frequency. The inclusion of morph ball bosses was really awesome. They were two of the harder bosses so far.

- Graphics: Slightly better. Mostly small touches. ( Did anyone notice that when you shoot a wall with the charge beam and you see Samus' eyes in the reflection, that if you turn slightly left or right, her eyes move in that direction? I can't remember if that was in Prime, although the regular reflection was there. )

- Lengthier: While light/dark may be an artificial way to lengthen the game, who cares. LttP did it and I don't recall anyone bitching about it. I'm over 10 hours for this one and I'm just about to go fight the last boss.

The thing that really sucks about both is the backtracking shit for the keys to unlock the final place. I really, really, really hate it. You should be able to get them earlier on in the game OR not have as many.
 
I agree 100%. Prime 1 is probably my favourite game this gen, and one of my all-time favourites. I was completely underwhelmed with echoes in every way. The whole game just lacked the polish that made the first one so great. The graphics were definitely better in echoes, but i was really pissed off about how they made the varia suit look... It's more graphically detailed but it just looks really, really ugly IMO. The music pretty much sucked overall too, i mean it wasn't terrible, but not one song stuck in my mind after finishing the game...whereas almost every track in prime 1 was fucking brilliant. Probably my biggest gripes with echoes are the environments and the gameplay- the areas were just utterly boring and i didn't feel the urge to explore them at all, the only area i liked in the game was torvus bog- a beautiful natural environment. The desert, overworld and sanctuary fortress were all horrible IMO.
To me Prime 1 felt like a great adventure/exploration game with controls that perfectly suited the game....I think retro tried to hard to make echoes more action oriented and the result is what feels like a really weak FPS with shitty controls.
 
I liked prime 2 better than prime 1 just because it doesn't have as much beam-switching for the sake of opening doors and it was harder. some of the puzzles were good, too. Honestly, though, I didn't find it all that fun. But I kept wanting to beat the game. I really wish they'd make the next metroid prime game (which you know is going to be made) a lot faster, though. They should really do like the 2d metroids and allow the wave/ice/plasma beams to stack with the regular beam, and make them all stronger, so you can kill faster later in the game to reclear areas more easily. Anyway, I thought prime 2 was way more polished than the first one, which I appreciated even if the game itself didn't feel all that enthralling.
 
The world in MP2 is so much better IMO. MP1 had the cookie cutter pallet for gaming worlds. Fire, Ice, Water, Desert, ect....
 
Sp3eD said:
The world in MP2 is so much better IMO. MP1 had the cookie cutter pallet for gaming worlds. Fire, Ice, Water, Desert, ect....

Prime 1's areas were mega cliche, but they were beautiful and immersive. Prime 2's areas were just boring crap (except torvus bog, which i like despite it being a carbon copy of tallon overworld).
 
SomeDude said:
The game has some of the worst music ever, which is sort of weird since in general I like alot of the music in the Metroid games.

the music is perfect for its mood, and I really love the intro music.
 
One thing is for certain, you can never bee too concerned about your security in dark aether ;)

Prime is for me as well a one off masterpiece, Echoes is more refined in some areas but level structure and design upto sanctuary fortress is quite poor, not to mention the key hunt towards the end. Very unnecessary.
 
I agree, Prime is a lot better and especially more fun to play than Echoes. Echoes' weapons are not as interesting (lame, actually), I don't enjoy managing my ammo, some of the regular enemies are too much of a nuisance, the level design is not as appealling (Dark world especially), the traveling between dimensions is tedious, the visors are not as cool and even more useless, way too much enemies were reused with a slight makeover, as mentioned the music is worse and sometimes downright grating etc etc. Prime is by far my #1 game this gen so expectations were high, Echoes didn't meet them.

PS the Phazon Mines from the first game are underrated, I think it's one of the best areas of the game. From a story/setting/atmosphere standpoint it definately beats the Sanctuary Fortress as 'final' area.
 
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=- said:
What's so great about the Sanctuary? I found it to be a pretty "meh" place...

Hand in your gaming card now, it has been revoked....

If you find the Fortress "meh" how do you look at anything else as anything more than complete grabage?!!?!?
 
After the fortress - THATS where the game got great. You have all the upgrades and its a matter of backtracking to get those keys but at the same time you can do all the puzzles that you couldnt do before. That was the best bit of the game for me.

Id like to see a more linear metroid. One where you have all the abilities at the start and its a matter of going from room to room solving complex puzzles as you go along.
 
wobedraggled said:
Hand in your gaming card now, it has been revoked....

If you find the Fortress "meh" how do you look at anything else as anything more than complete grabage?!!?!?

Please explain to me how the fortress is great.

---------------------------------------------

BTW, the scan visor sucks too, the diagrams that appear when you were scanning things was just awesome in the first prime.
 
I havent gotten very far in MP2(only at the torvus bog), but so far Im enjoying it alot more than MP1. The game just seems far more immersive and compelling to play than the original. The graphics, IMO, are alot prettier too. I also love the adjustments they made to Samus' suit. She looks alot cooler.

I dont like the new menu system though. And the Dark beam and light beams are essentially the Wave beam and icebeam with a colour change.
 
Give Prime 2 some time to grow on you. It's a very clever game, and retains its very own aesthetic, different from Prime 1. It's darker and a little more disturbing. I really enjoyed it. I have vivid images of Echoes in my mind.
 
I don't want to go into it much, but Prime is much better than Echoes. Nothing feels forced because of the wonderful pacing. The weapons are better and even the enemy encounters. I found the Space Pirates in Echoes to be too predictable and easy. They were more of a challenge in Prime.

Exploration was better in Prime, too. Same with puzzles.
 
I have just finished Prime 1 and rolled right into Prime 2. So far I'm more entranced by Prime 2's storyline. I find I can relate to the story of a military ship landing on a distant world, setting up base camp, and then being wiped out by creatures more than Prime's story.

Everything in the environments seem more tangible to me this time around. Prime1 had very technologically overdetailed environments that seemed to have no function either than to be over detailed. Echoes just feels more concrete and less bizarre.

Visually there is almost no comparison to me. Remember, I had just finished the first one so it was fresh in my mind. The shadow mapping is crisper, textures on creatures and most of the environments are nicer, the monsters are made out of more polys than before and animate better, there is more reflection/specular mapping on the metallic or shiny surfaces, effects such as fire and smoke look better, and the environment based irradiance lighting is a huge step up.

I have yet to find the wicked stuff that has been promised to me in Echoes but so far I'm really into the game.
 
I got stuck in Metroid Prime and never went back to it. I got bored killing the same exact enemies over and over again because I couldn't progress further in the level. I played a little of Echoes at the ComicCon at thoght it was pretty cool.

I should go back and beat Prime one of these days...
 
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