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Project CARS | OT | Made by 80.000 slightly mad developers

S

Sky Chief

Member
dankir said:
Question for PC users, does this game support Oculus Rift? Has anybody played with the Rift and a full racing wheel / pedal setup?
Click to expand...

Yes, but only during races. The menus do not work with the OR. The game though with a FFB wheel and the Rift is fucking amazing, so good!
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
AristoCat said:
Tried those. It works okay with every modern GT cars, but that's awful with classics and road cars, switched back to regular mode 3 and steering deadzone at 20. Feels way better in every case, at least for me.

Overall I feel that the game is designed for wheels, and pad gameplay is there just to be there.
For me it's Shift 2 all over again, great game that no matter how hard I try, I am not able to enjoy fully because pad gameplay.
Click to expand...

I bave up on trying to enjoy the game with all assists off with a gamepad. Its just frustrating more than anything.

Putting Opposite Lock Help on makes an absolutely massive difference. You just can't make the fine adjustments necessary to catch oversteer without over correcting, Opposeite Lock assist makes it catchable. You can still over correct or under compensate but it becomes less fidgety about it. Have been enjoying the game considerably more ever since.

I stopped getting hung up about using that as an assist because like I said, without a wheel you're just at a massive disadvantage in terms of how precise you can be with steering input and the game became a lot less frustration and a lot more enjoyable. You still cant be wreckless but at least you don't hold your breathe everytime you attempt to countersteer or navigate chicanes.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Mohonky said:
I bave up on trying to enjoy the game with all assists off with a gamepad. Its just frustrating more than anything.

Putting Opposite Lock Help on makes an absolutely massive difference. You just can't make the fine adjustments necessary to catch oversteer without over correcting, Opposeite Lock assist makes it catchable. You can still over correct or under compensate but it becomes less fidgety about it. Have been enjoying the game considerably more ever since.

I stopped getting hung up about using that as an assist because like I said, without a wheel you're just at a massive disadvantage in terms of how precise you can be with steering input and the game became a lot less frustration and a lot more enjoyable. You still cant be wreckless but at least you don't hold your breathe everytime you attempt to countersteer or navigate chicanes.
Click to expand...

So far I've been playing with a pad with all assists off, and as much as I'm enjoying myself and not finding it too difficult, I still feel like with many of the cars, I'm almost on a knife edge, never able to fully let go and try and reach for those top competitive lap times. There's always that possibility that if I'm just a touch too hard on the acceleration or steering, I'm done for, and that's holding my lap times back. I seem to be a whopping 8-10 seconds off the global record for some of the tracks, and that bothers me.

Might try a few laps with opposite lock help on, just so I can race a bit more aggressively.
 
C

Chabbles

Member
Enjoying the racing in this and everything for the most part, but this game is beyond broken in places. Im on PS4 racing on the Cali highway in the Alpine A450, heavy cloud and fog enabled, with 24 other cars, and the game is slowing down and lurching back to normal speed, and slowing down and lurching back again making it.. uncontrollable isnt a strong enough term.. idk if its some sort of weird framerate problem, but my god its bad.. i quit out and loaded back in with a similar spec car, and the same issue. Its very strange sensation, its almost like rubberbanding in BF4 or something..
 
M

Mascot

Member
fresquito said:
SMS has done a really poor job with the UI and HUD in every possible way. It's like they don't want to show the wear of the tyres in the HUD, but then you you use an app and there it is. They don't want to have a calculator for how much fuel you used in a lap, but the app tells you if you want. The HUD doesn't tell you if there's wind, but the app does. It doesn't make any sense. That's info that the game is providing to external apps, but not to the in game HUD.

Even though we've been telling how bad the UI and HUD was, they never paid attention. They just changed cosmetics. It was painfull seeing how so many basic things were not included. Like the spotter, that now that the game is released and people complain the say they will add it through the engie. Notthing that wasn't suggested a bazillion times through development.

Don't take me wrong, WMD has been a fantastic tool and a very interesting experience and I have learned a lot about development, but some devs were simply more open to make full use out of it, why others had a strng vision of what they wanted to do and mostly ignored any external input. Turns out that those that paid more attention to what WMD had to say have been greatly praised by customers, while most complaints come from the work done by those more closed to their own ideas.

Let's hope they learn the leason for the second game.
Click to expand...

I noticed in the physics wiki they talk about how things like track temperature, atmospheric pressure and elevation above sea level can affect the performance of your car, and subsequently wondered why none of those parameters were ever mentioned anywhere..!

So you need a separate app (that works on PC only, I'm guessing) to get access to that information, even though it's modelled in the game? That's utterly barmy! Why the hell isn't it visible anywhere in the game? It's bad enough that it's not a HUD option, but to have it all totally concealed is absolutely bonkers!

If you can please give me a complete list of all the hidden info I'll start a thread on the public WMD forums. The devs (and Ian Bell) seem quite active there at the moment as they gather feedback for bug fixes and updates.

Edit: I created a thread. Let's see if it goes anywhere. click. Feel free to chime in..!
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
nib95 said:
So far I've been playing with a pad with all assists off, and as much as I'm enjoying myself and not finding it too difficult, I still feel like with many of the cars, I'm almost on a knife edge, never able to fully let go and try and reach for those top competitive lap times. There's always that possibility that if I'm just a touch too hard on the acceleration or steering, I'm done for, and that's holding my lap times back. I seem to be a whopping 8-10 seconds off the global record for some of the tracks, and that bothers me.

Might try a few laps with opposite lock help on, just so I can race a bit more aggressively.
Click to expand...


The only Assists I use are Real and Opposite Lock on the controller.

I like the idea of having it on Real so if the real car has it, it has it in game, if it doesnt, it doesnt. I dont believe you need to arbitrually remove assists that the actual vehicle has in real life.

Opposite lock is simply a must because of the input device. You can't get around the fact that a wheel gives you so much more precision than a stick.

Like you said, I wasn't enjoying the game because I always felt like I was on a knife edge with the vehicles. You'd come to a corner and clench your asshole shut just hoping the car wouldn't spin. It wasn't fun. You also dont have the benefit of force feedback to tell you what the car is doing, the steering wheels will basically do some of the correction for you if they are simulated well because of the way a car behaves in real life in accordance with slip angles and momentum. You dont get any of that with a stick, but Opposite Lock will fill in those gaps.

Never had a problem with throttle. You just need to learn that you really can't get into full throttle until you are lined up straight with the majority of vehicles; when you come out of a corner just ease onto it till you feel there is enough traction there and the car is holding a line that wont let it overcome its grip.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Mascot said:
I noticed in the physics wiki they talk about how things like track temperature, atmospheric pressure and elevation above sea level can affect the performance of your car, and subsequently wondered why none of those parameters were ever mentioned anywhere..!

So you need a separate app (that works on PC only, I'm guessing) to get access to that information, even though it's modelled in the game? That's utterly barmy! Why the hell isn't it visible anywhere in the game? It's bad enough that it's not a HUD option, but to have it all totally concealed is absolutely bonkers!

If you can please give me a complete list of all the hidden info I'll start a thread on the public WMD forums. The devs (and Ian Bell) seem quite active there at the moment as they gather feedback for bug fixes and updates.
Click to expand...

Yep, strange indeed.

Do you have a link to this app?
 
V

Vaga

Member
Chabbles said:
Enjoying the racing in this and everything for the most part, but this game is beyond broken in places. Im on PS4 racing on the Cali highway in the Alpine A450, heavy cloud and fog enabled, with 24 other cars, and the game is slowing down and lurching back to normal speed, and slowing down and lurching back again making it.. uncontrollable isnt a strong enough term.. idk if its some sort of weird framerate problem, but my god its bad.. i quit out and loaded back in with a similar spec car, and the same issue. Its very strange sensation, its almost like rubberbanding in BF4 or something..
Click to expand...

The same shit happens in kart championships at rolling start it's like putting a video on slow speed then fast forward in a few seconds, dunno wtf is wrong it might have to do with some sort of frame pacing/skipping bug.


Does messing with the car setup in garage alters the performance in network events? Tried the Clio RS event and I can't seem to break the 52" barrier, getting some heavy understeer at low speed.
 
M

_machine

Member
Superkamikazee said:
That has me lol'ing. No mod support because modders can't produce the same quality that devs can, portion of the game gets outsourced to mod team to build. Bummer there's no mod support though.

Is it true that there's already rumblings of work on a Pcars 2? If that's true, that's a bit disconcerting.
Click to expand...
To be honest that blog is full of shit when it comes to pCARS and the argument wasn't just about mods matching the quality (it was one point that was raised, but certainly not even close to the most important one and the developers as well as the community did acknowledge that it's definitely a moot point in the bigger picture). The real issues is that mod support is a massive feature to be developed and would have cut immensely into the features of the console versions. All the UI support, the tools support, the loading, the online support and everything associated with it simply would have made it impossible to implement into the first title without cutting other features severely. It's a feature that I would at least personally estimate at more than one man-year (given what I just heard from developers of a well-known title that got modding support with a middleware).

As for pCARS 2, not it's not under development, but as for the the game itself, the longer the pre-production the better the game is going to end up and the core staff that should be doing the pre-pro most likely wouldn't be that hands-on with post-launch content so if it's going to start soon the better it's going to be for us on a long-term. It doesn't mean they are even close to abandoning the first title though; they really want to support the game well as it's their own IP and franchise and you have to take good care of it if you want to continue the IP (especially since the start has had some bumps in the road).
 
C

Chabbles

Member
Vaga said:
The same shit happens in kart championships at rolling start it's like putting a video on slow speed then fast forward in a few seconds, dunno wtf is wrong it might have to do with some sort of frame pacing/skipping bug.


Does messing with the car setup in garage alters the performance in network events? Tried the Clio RS event and I can't seem to break the 52" barrier, getting some heavy understeer at low speed.
Click to expand...

Exactly, shits very annoying.
 
N

nasanu

Banned
Mohonky said:
I like the idea of having it on Real so if the real car has it, it has it in game, if it doesnt, it doesnt. I dont believe you need to arbitrually remove assists that the actual vehicle has in real life.
Click to expand...
There problem is that many cars come with TCS and other aids that can be turned off. However in the game you can't as far as I can tell.
 
D

danowat

Banned
Still finding things missing......

Is there a fundemental issue with tyre heating?
Example, M1 procar historic race, did 10 laps in qualifying, no problems with tyre heat, everything fine.

Start the race, and all four tyres are red after the first two corners on the first lap? What gives?

Also, it started to rain on the 3rd lap of 5, so 2 laps of rain, and the tyres stayed red throughout.
Click to expand...

Just a thought - was your setup set to use tyres that match the current conditions? Is it possible it started you on wet tyres instead of slicks? Other than a bug that's the only logical explanation I can come up with at the moment.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point.

I didn't know it was going to rain, there is no forecast, so it maybe possible the system did, and like you say, fitted rain tyres.

However, in the dry they felt just as grippy as slicks, and didn't feel overly good in the wet, so I don't know......
Click to expand...

If this is indeed the case, it just highlights two other issues.

1) The complete lack of feedback to the player about potential weather conditions throughout a session or race, and to that end, the fact that track temperature is modeled, and has a fundamental affect on tyre pressures and temperatures, the lack of feedback to the player about current track conditions is wrong.

2) What criteria the system picks which tyre you are going to use, IMO, my situation was a dry race, the fact that the system chose (if it did) wet tyres was wrong, not only because it was a dry race, but also because this choice wasn't communicated to the player.
Click to expand...

Complete lack of communication to the player about track conditions in something that is supposed to be a sim is very wrong.
 
J

JamboGT

Member
I think in the car settings you can select tyres, including the option to select for current track conditions. May have been that?
 
D

danowat

Banned
JamboGT said:
I think in the car settings you can select tyres, including the option to select for current track conditions. May have been that?
Click to expand...

It does appear to be a reasonable answer, in which case, "automatic by conditions" is broken, and should be turned off until they fix it.
 
L

LilJoka

Member
GHG said:
Is there a way to tell if your pit slot is occupied by another driver?

Far too often I've gone in to pit only to be forced to go straight through because it's not free.
Click to expand...

Maybe you run more cars than pit boxes causing them to be reused. That shouldn't be allowed really.
 
L

Linius

Member
Fonds said:
It seems to take quite a lot of time before your time is registered to the leaderboards. Like up to an hour even.
Click to expand...

The leaderboard only shows 3000 people. Yesterday the slowest time was 53:2xx, forgot the exact time. So yeah, you have to be quite fast to even get on the leaderboard. I managed to get down to 53:388 now.
 
A

Azzawon

Member
Had a cracked windscreen for about half of my Le Mans 24h race yesterday, and you would expect you could have it fixed in a pitstop. Nope! Doesn't help when you race in cockpit view and are struggling to see your braking points :(

Something I'll raise in the forums, it would be a huge help if something like a cracked windscreen could be repaired at the cost of a lengthy pitstop.
 
M

_machine

Member
Mascot said:
Just doing everything I can to help get the various issues recognised and fixed. The devs are monitoring the official forum but I'm not sure if any of them come here anymore..!
Click to expand...
I know at least some of them regularly stalk forums like GAF and GTPlanet, but I assume that with WMD and the official pCARS forum they have their hands full and development already takes quite a bit of time. I've been trying to post some requests from to WMD though, and for example the audio settings and external sounds in cockpit was something they acknowledged and are trying to get in to the game. It's great to have your feedback on the official forums and the developers definitely appreciate all the feedback.
 
L

LilJoka

Member
_machine said:
I know at least some of them regularly stalk forums like GAF and GTPlanet, but I assume that with WMD and the official pCARS forum they have their hands full and development already takes quite a bit of time. I've been trying to post some requests from to WMD though, and for example the audio settings and external sounds in cockpit was something they acknowledged and are trying to get in to the game. It's great to have your feedback on the official forums and the developers definitely appreciate all the feedback.
Click to expand...

Don't you think people have been posting these bugs from over a year ago whilst in development?
 
D

danowat

Banned
Lots of damage control going on, this is the response to my post in Mascots thread about the lack of feedback about something as fundamental as track temp and forecast weather.

Good luck telling the developers what to do. I'm sure you can appreciate that they'll be tackling major bugs then minor bugs and then looking at new features. Also some there may be some features which are purely out of the scope of Project Cars 1 and may be put on the back burner until Project Cars 2. I'm not saying this feature will be shelved until the sequel I'm just trying to set expectations.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Says it all really.

Worse thing about the whole thing is that pretty much every review skirted over most of these issues, I guess the fact that this was reviewed on a console, by people who many of these things probably wouldn't occur to.
 
M

_machine

Member
LilJoka said:
Don't you think people have been posting these bugs from over a year ago whilst in development?
Click to expand...
Of course they have and a lot of have been addressed during the development, but the reality is that even WMD isn't big enough to face all the bugs (few thousands of active users is nothing compared to hundreds of thousands of users on a much wider variety of configuration) and especially on the consoles not all will be discovered. That said, obviously pCARS did ship with a quite a few known bugs which is never good, but it's something SMS has to address, especially given that they really want to build a new IP out of this. The key thing is to learn and improve the processes for the future so things like these don't happen again. The new generation has been a tough one for developers in terms of scheduling and estimating, shipping and development even though it was supposed to make things easier.
 
L

LilJoka

Member
_machine said:
Of course they have and a lot of have been addressed during the development, but the reality is that even WMD isn't big enough to face all the bugs (few thousands of active users is nothing compared to hundreds of thousands of users on a much wider variety of configuration) and especially on the consoles not all will be discovered. That said, obviously pCARS did ship with a quite a few known bugs which is never good, but it's something SMS has to address, especially given that they really want to build a new IP out of this. The key thing is to learn and improve the processes for the future so things like these don't happen again. The new generation has been a tough one for developers in terms of scheduling and estimating, shipping and development even though it was supposed to make things easier.
Click to expand...

Hey I'll put my bets down you'll see DLC arrive with game breaking bugs still present. Look at their current changelogs, barely any fixes at all. It annoys me reviewers browsed over so many game breaking bugs and simple features missing (Lack of HUD options, Track maps missing on selection, controller issues, etc) before recommending this game. Every single aspect is bugged, online, car start positions, race end position, invisible track walls, UI bugs, UI unfinished, livery selection again I could go on. There is a thread for every inconceivable thing on their bug forum: cars upside down, pit box unavailable, stuck in pits. I think I have made my point, this is worse than Codies F1 2010 game in terms of bugs.
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
Lots of damage control going on, this is the response to my post in Mascots thread about the lack of feedback about something as fundamental as track temp and forecast weather.
Click to expand...

A mod has sent the thread to die in 'Feature Suggestions' now (SMH), seemingly at the request of some random user.

I've requested it be relocated to 'General Discussion'.
 
L

LilJoka

Member
Mascot said:
They'd be more-than-slightly mad to release any more DLC before the major bugs are fixed.

The fallout would be horrendous.
Click to expand...

The reason why I bet DLC will arrive first is that a lot of these bugs have been around for a while and I actually think there are some deep rooted issues which they just can't fix in a reasonable amount of time.

And we have already heard they are working on PCars 2.
 
M

_machine

Member
LilJoka said:
Hey I'll put my bets down you'll see DLC arrive with game breaking bugs still present. Look at their current changelogs, barely any fixes at all. It annoys me reviewers browsed over so many game breaking bugs and simple features missing (Lack of HUD options, Track maps missing on selection, controller issues, etc) before recommending this game. Every single aspect is bugged, online, car start positions, race end position, invisible track walls, UI bugs, UI unfinished, livery selection again I could go on. There is a thread for every inconceivable thing on their bug forum: cars upside down, pit box unavailable, stuck in pits. I think I have made my point, this is worse than Codies F1 2010 game in terms of bugs.
Click to expand...
Well while in practice having DLC arrive without all fixes sounds bad, but the reality is that it's not like vehicle artists are the ones fixing UI bugs or others. As for the current changelogs, they've already said they are fixes for critical bugs (that were done during the weekend) and fixing most bugs takes a while longer than that. That said, the game definitely has it's fair share of bugs even though I haven't encountered that many, but apparently it's a bit worse on the consoles. I do trust them to work hard on that though, as I said it's very important if they want to continue the franchise as trust is very important in that case.

Mascot said:
A mod has sent the thread to die in 'Feature Suggestions' now (SMH), seemingly at the request of some random user.

I've requested it be relocated to 'General Discussion'.
Click to expand...
Apologies, that may have been me. I thought that it wouldn't be addressed by the right people in the PS4 subforums and I know the developers read the feature suggestions quite regularly, but you're right it would be better suited for General Discussion.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Mascot said:
A mod has sent the thread to die in 'Feature Suggestions' now (SMH), seemingly at the request of some random user.

I've requested it be relocated to 'General Discussion'.
Click to expand...
One of the worst things about WMD is the Cheerleader complex that so many people have there. Everything is always good and everything has a reason to be broken. Through development, you would report a bug and you had to fight against people saying that wasn't that bad or that there were workarounds instead of aknowledging that something was wrong.

Reviewing back my time spent there, I'm sure I did some things wrong. I could have speaked my opinion in a different manner, not like I'm on a public forum. But these Cheerleaders were really hard to overcome and get in a tempered mood. Hell, now there'ss an open thread asking for keybinding being accesible through pause menu and a Super Manager tells the guy he should have bound his keys and have notes about them. This is a sim! he says.

I remember one day that I reported TT time being wrong in the time of day and month. I provided screenshots of the different light conditions on two hours jumps. 20h showed an evening, in the summer. I said: Okay, I've never been to Germany, but that's unlikely to be right. A Mod came by and said: Looks like a perfectly summer day to me, then a smile.

A large part of the WMD forums were in denial. There could be nothing wrong about the game. Luckily enough the devs were more eager to recognise bugs and broken features. One of them contacted me and we all discovered that TT was fixed as it is now, just the UI allowed setting it up (to no effect).
 
M

_machine

Member
fresquito said:
One of the worst things about WMD is the Cheerleader complex that so many people have there. Everything is always good and everything has a reason to be broken. Through development, you would report a bug and you had to fight against people saying that wasn't that bad or that there were workarounds instead of aknowledging that something was wrong.

Reviewing back my time spent there, I'm sure I did some things wrong. I could have speaked my opinion in a different manner, not like I'm on a public forum. But these Cheerleaders were really hard to overcome and get in a tempered mood. Hell, now there'ss an open thread asking for keybinding being accesible through pause menu and a Super Manager tells the guy he should have bound his keys and have notes about them. This is a sim! he says.

I remember one day that I reported TT time being wrong in the time of day and month. I provided screenshots of the different light conditions on two hours jumps. 20h showed an evening, in the summer. I said: Okay, I've never been to Germany, but that's unlikely to be right. A Mod came by and said: Looks like a perfectly summer day to me, then a smile.

A large part of the WMD forums were in denial. There could be nothing wrong about the game. Luckily enough the devs were more eager to recognise bugs and broken features. One of them contacted me and we all discovered that TT was fixed as it is now, just the UI allowed setting it up (to no effect).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. I've been actually writing an essay/postmortem on the whole development cycle when I've had the time and communication is definitely one of the main processes that should be improved for the future and especially the way that candor feedback is addressed. It's by no means an easy thing to balance, but at it's current state there are some issues that are really preventing improvements.
 
M

Mascot

Member
_machine said:
Apologies, that may have been me. I thought that it wouldn't be addressed by the right people in the PS4 subforums and I know the developers read the feature suggestions quite regularly, but you're right it would be better suited for General Discussion.
Click to expand...

Ha ha..! No worries, that makes me feel better.

I just got a right telling off by one of the mods. Ah, gaming forums...
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
Naughty......
Click to expand...

One of those written-word misinterpretations, unfortunately. A smiley should have been deployed.

I guess the mods over there are getting fed up with all the whining, negativity and occasional abusive posts. It must be tough when the game launches with so many issues.

The official Forza forums were the absolute worst though. Quite a few of the mods over there were universally arrogant, patronising and abusive to the point of tainting my experience with the entire franchise. Even their high horses shat out rose-scented turds.
 
M

_machine

Member
Mascot said:
One of those written-word misinterpretations, unfortunately. A smiley should have been deployed.

I guess the mods over there are getting fed up with all the whining, negativity and occasional abusive posts. It must be tough when the game launches with so many issues.

The official Forza forums were the absolute worst though. Quite a few of the mods over there were universally arrogant, patronising and abusive to the point of tainting my experience with the entire franchise. Even their high horses shat out rose-scented turds.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's definitely a tough thing as mods aren't SMS staff, they are just regular WMD members that have poured tons of effort during the development and have been promoted to mods for their work during the development. It can at times feel that there is no unified line or the answers might vary a lot from mod to mod, but I do think that even though there are plenty of legitimate issues with the game a helpful and constructive stance is something that everyone should strive for as it really helps us all. Fair to remind that mods stance on some matters will not be the same as the developers though. Anyway, glad that it was just a misunderstanding, but I think it's fair to post about any potential problems with the moderation stances as I'm sure they want to improve their work as well.
 
A

AnythingBut

Member
Anyone running a thrustmaster T100 like to drop what settings they're using if possible? Finding some tracks I'm inconsistent compared to use my old t80 and just wanted to double check I don't have things set too off kilter.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
Mascot said:
A mod has sent the thread to die in 'Feature Suggestions' now (SMH), seemingly at the request of some random user.

I've requested it be relocated to 'General Discussion'.
Click to expand...

With the exception of a weather forecast that would help you with picking the right tires, these informations are more in the "nice to know" category (more feature than bug). Even that weather forecast wouldn't help in a lot of cars that don't have rain tires.

I wish they had a feature-adding/debugging list on which you could vote things up and down with a limited number of votes per patch-cycle. That would make things a lot more transparent.

My personal #1 bug that should be fixed is the save-time for a change in the options menu, which (on Xbox One at least) sometimes takes 1 second, but every third time or so it takes almost 2 minutes. I want that even more fixed than the rev-sound bug on Xbox One. My #1 "feature" that should be added is a better time-trial board that lets me see the times of my friends and also how many people overall have tried their luck in a car class (is it good to be on the 256th spot in a community even? Or were there only 500 people trying it? At the moment you can't know). Time-trial car classes are also pretty off for the road cars as Soundscream mentioned before.
 
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