Hey look, the cycle started again! *not meaning you are starting it, but the posts above*
PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
- Thread starter Chopper
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Hey look, the cycle started again! *not meaning you are starting it, but the posts above*
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Is this for real?
Gorman asks Apone to collect all magazines from everybody - which he does. What Gorman doesn't do is tell them why, so Vasquez and Frost keep their spares because they think Gorman is in way over his head and doesn't know what he's doing and they want to be prepared should the shit really hit the fan. And it does hit the fan. And they were lucky they kept those magazines, because if they hadn't all of those marines would be dead. And I will say again - they didn't know why they shouldn't be firing, only that they didn't trust Gorman - who should have told them the reason in the first place but didn't because he was indeed over his head. He's like the Captain Dyke of the colonial marines.
Everybody except Gorman is professional in how they go about their job.
The crew of Prometheus at least pretended to be educated in some things. God knows what the trigger happy militia in Aliens would have made of meeting God, probably been completely dumbfounded and stupefied. Especially since they were presented as such stereotypes of the balls-out dudebro American military.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
All I know is that whatever happened, they would have had those Smart guns down there with them. But more than that, they would have had Ripley.
Saved me the time. You're the best!
Yes, like when taking of their helmets to breathe unknown alien air with god knows what alien everything in the atmosphere. And poking alien creatures...
Can we stop this now? Prometheus is back to back stupidity, but its the editing that is to blame. I'm sure there is some part in the script that explains how the captain that never left the ship knows that its a military facility for biological weapons.
Alien/Aliens had sci-fi cheese speed bumps, one or two. Not an entire film. There are explanations for everything in those films to make the stupid actions justified for the movie, at least. There will never be an explanation why a guy plays cute-kitten with a space worm.
Nappuccino
Member
I'm fairly certain the captain goes into the the alien facility the second time around. Plus he sees how Fifield has changed first hand- he was there when they killed him.
Did he? Probably read the signs then. Honestly can't remember him in a suit.
edit;
he probably wasn't wearing one.
You first then.
Speedymanic
Banned
Doesn't make it any less of a stupid decision and one that didn't fit in at all with these supposed professionals. Why did Apone, a veteran, decide that Gorman was the authority in that situation?
He was walking into an unknown situation and yet he follows the orders of some rank amateur instead of doing what he's been trained to do?
Yeah.
He does and he goes into the room with the goo containers when they find the dude that got zombified. He's also the one that tells Vickers to let them on the ship when she's holding them off at flamethrower point.
Nappuccino
Member
I'm almost certain he was. but the second time is over in like 5 min or less so it's a) easy to forget b) easy to misremember.
edit: thanks Aseltith!
I'm trying to remember it now. But man, the alcohol isn't helping.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Really? REALLY?
If Apone had disabobeyed Gorman you would say 'HOW COME APONE - A MILITARY VET, CANT EVEN FOLLOW ORDERS HUH HUH HUH?!'
Gorman is the type of military man that has risen through the ranks at desk jobs. The soliders don't like it, but that is part of the story. Gorman is characterized like that. Do you know what that means? It means that that is how his character has been introduced - and so logically he enacts the character traits that have written for him. His character reacts to situations how an unqualified officer of his character type would act were he to come across a situation wherein he is woefully out of his depth.
That is the difference between the films. In Aliens, Gorman makes stupid decisions because he is setup as being unqualified for the job at hand. In Prometheus, the characters make stupid decisions because the writers are stupid.
Nappuccino
Member
So if there was one line about how Weyland hurriedly gathered a crew so they get could out there ASAP, everything would magically be fine? Because that does seem to be an underlying current what with his age and how people were worried he would have died during hypersleep because he was so old.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
No. Unless they were trying to characterize Weyland himself as being a fucking moron and not somebody who had plenty of time to wait in cryo. And even then, you're now saying that the characters are SUPPOSED to be braindead with that line of thinking.
Nappuccino
Member
He didn't have plenty of time in cryo- that's why they were worried he'd died during transport.
Speedymanic
Banned
no, had Apone disobeyed, I would have thought that he's using his years of experience and not being a brainless idiot.
The stupid decisions don't end with Gorman, everyone suffers from them. From Apone listening to someone who obviously has no authority or experience in the situation to handing all the ammo, etc to one guy to all the marines going down to look for the colonists to only having a sparse crew on the Solaco so they end up stranded if their one pilot happens to die.
There are so many more instances of character/plot stupidity.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
What the fuck are you talking about? Spunkmeyer and Farow (the flight crew) weren't with them in the catacombs.
cloud_sleep
Member
Soldiers follow the chain of command, even in elite units. I've just a read book about a British special forces patrol in the 1991 gulf war. Their commander was crap and made poor decisions when under pressure, much like Gorman. They still had to follow his orders.
Besides, in the case presented in Aliens, it was only the HE/AP rounds in the rifles and machine guns that were the issue, the Marines still had flame throwers, pistols and shotguns so it's not like they were agreeing to go unarmed into danger. It doesn't approach the stupidity of scientists taking off their helmets in an alien environment, petting a hissing alien showing an easily recognizable threat display, the mapping expert getting lost, examining a dead alien head without protection and so and so on...
One or two of these things would be fine and easily overlooked but I spent a good part of the movie thinking 'WTF?! cut the shit!'
Nappuccino
Member
He means that they were left on the surface alone when they should have retreated to a safe place (i.e. not on the surface of the planet and not with that big cargo doors open). It is no surprise Aliens got to them since they had no protection.
And that there seemed to be no pilot replacements because the landing crew was so small (but I'm not really sure this is an issue- the way they don't protect the pilots seems to be the more obvious one)
Speedymanic
Banned
Are you deliberately missing my point? They only had one pilot. One pilot. What if that pilot had died due to mechanical error or was unable to fly due to injury, etc, they would have been stranded.
The Solaco was barely staffed, this doesn't make sense for a military vessel.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
They thought they were in a safe place. Where else would you have them land? The cargo door was open because that is where the APC exits and enters for a quick load out.
Speedy - Not one pilot. Bishop knows how to pilot the dropship and the Sulaco as demonstrated in the film. And it's Sulaco.
Speedymanic
Banned
I agree it doesn't approach the stupidity of what characters do in Prome. My point was all movies suffer from stupid characters during stupid shit that they shouldn't be doing because they should know better.
The reson they do it is to advance the plot, so looking so deeply into their actions is in itself stupid and redundant. Your dismantling something that doesn't need to be dismantled as its only purpose was to advance the plot.
Nappuccino
Member
They were on the ground for at least 30 min if not an hour. That is even after shit goes down- the alien only got in there (it seems anyway) just before they took off to rescue those now stranded. That is a long time for a transport to hang around when shit is going down.
Robot Pants
Member
No, no, no. I don't mean just the flamethrower death, I mean he literally didn't even try to save himself. As soon as he noticed something was wrong he just gave up. No attempt at all to seek any kind of medical attention. After ALL his research had led him to a god damn alien planet, where they find our supposed "Gods", he's just ready to give in and die at the first sign of anything wrong. I mean, wouldn't he want to at least try to save his life for his fiancee? What if all he needed was a quick injection to fight off whatever was inside of him? He had no idea what it was.
Nope, "my eyes look funny. Kill me."
Movie just moved way too fast.
Engineers: "Greetings Humans. We are your creators."
Vasquez: ".......LET'S ROCK!!!"
Speedymanic
Banned
You're still missing my point somewhat. It's a military vessel, it should have a full staff of pilots, soldiers, etc and yet it's not all that different from the crew in Alien in that they've got a large ship that's barely staffed.
This doesn't make sense for a military vessel. Apologies for the spelling mistake.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
They didn't know there were any hostiles, let alone hostiles outside of the colony centre. You have to remember that a lot of people were treating Ripley as somebody who was overreacting.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'd say that like the Nostromo, the Sulaco is staffed by as many people as there are cryotubes available on the ship. It's a one stop drop and return and with Bishop looking after the main functions on the ship while they're all in cryo, they don't need any more staff. But now you're getting into semantics and away from what we were originally discussing.
Nappuccino
Member
So you're saying that while the rest of the marines were all screaming over comms they had no idea that any hostiles were there?
Also there were facehuggers in the science labs before any of that happened. Seems like pretty good evidence Ripley was actually right.
They hung around too long, period, but if they had hung around with a closed cargo bay, they probably wouldn't have died either.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'd say that they weren't on the same channel at all. They're pilots waiting for the signal that the others are requesting a dustoff. That is all. They weren't anywhere near the action. They were kilometers away.
Nappuccino
Member
Why wouldn't they be on the same channel? I guess I didn't get the indication they had to switch channels to talk to them. And you'd think someone would have kept them uptodate on the plans/ what was being seen.
Also, this is all stupid- those characters were going to die no matter what happened because of plot-karma. If it wasn't aliens, then one of the engines would have gone out or the pilot would have had a heart attack or misjudged the landing.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Because flight crew aren't front linesmen. They're flight officers. Their job is to be ready to fly when the marines request a dustoff. Of course they're not on the same channel.
Speedymanic
Banned
Annoying isn't it?
We'll leave it at that though.
Anyway, still waiting for my artbook. Starting to look like it's been lost in the mail system or someone's stolen it.
Guess I'll have to call Amazon if it doesn't arrive in the morning.
I <3 you.
Annoying isn't it?
We'll leave it at that though.
Anyway, still waiting for my artbook. Starting to look like it's been lost in the mail system or someone's stolen it.
Guess I'll have to call Amazon if it doesn't arrive in the morning.
lol... rigghhhhttttttttttttttt..... he proved all your points wrong, by the movie, since its basic script was written out to explore the world and motivations that took place in it.
Nappuccino
Member
It's an extremely small military crew. They wouldn't need an entirely separate channel to communicate to the one pilot. And again, even if they were, someone should have kept them up to date; "Hey guys we found evidence of aliens around, make sure you're tighten up the ship so nothing gets on board" isn't exactly hard to tell them.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Nappuccino
Member
yea yea yeah, be a condescending asshole. I don't know why I bother.
Robot Pants
Member
Hudson, come here! COME-HERE!
napp, bay 12... please..
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
There are separate channels when there are separate divisions of crew.
Who and when would have somebody communicate to Farroh that they should close everything up? Because as soon as the shit goes down and Ripley takes over and they get out of there, they immediately request a dustoff. I don't see them doing in the middle of the op while in such a hot do or die situation. Certainly not feezy McGee Gorman.
Wasn't meant for you. I posted it at the same time you posted your post.
cloud_sleep
Member
I agree that many other films feature characters making stupid, plot-driven decisions. I think a lot of people, however, simply found that Prometheus had so many that it becomes an unignorable issue. Couple that with all the opaque character motivations and the film, for me at least, becomes hard to take seriously.
Nappuccino
Member
There are separate channels when there are separate divisions of crew.
Who and when would have somebody communicate to Farroh that they should close everything up? Because as soon as the shit goes down and Ripley takes over and they get out of there, they immediately request a dustoff. I don't see them doing in the middle of the op while in such a hot do or die situation. Certainly not feezy McGee Gorman.
Wasn't meant for you. I posted it at the same time you posted your post.
Ah- well my apologizes for the reaction.
And I'm assuming that they would have radioed in while they were exploring the main facilities i.e. when they found the facehuggers in the science labs. Unless my memory is failing, this was evidence of aliens well before any shit goes down.
Plus you have the little girl who they find that vouches for the alien's existence (again, unless my memory is failing, that happens before the main attack on them all)
These are two pretty clear times where evidence/ testimony of the aliens exists and there isn't the chaos of battle going on at the same time. A radio transmission would have been easy to get out there at this time.
You get it. Everyone gets this mostly.
But, some people think that the logic behind the bold equates to declaring that no other sci-fi film ever had A single silly issue. SO they go to bat and bring up other single instances. Thus, Prometheus is ok, because another film had a few missteps. All while ignoring that its quantity that is against Prometheus.
mostly...
Night prometheus thread! See you guys tomorrow..
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
What am I thinking. The reason the cargo door is open is because Spunkmeyer is doing checks on the landing gear or some shit.
Nappuccino
Member
I don't think anyone is arguing that Prometheus isn't any less or equally stupid. But many people don't feel these moments grossly affect their enjoyment of the movie. That end response comes down to personal opinion.
Robot Pants
Member
post of the thread/year
Weyland had very little time on earth when he learned about the location to send Prometheus. Of course they were in a shitload of hurry.
Nappuccino
Member
Odd to do those checks in the middle of a mission.... but I guess if they had an issue on landing it's fair enough.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
And again, even if he was in a hurry, if that is your reasoning, then you're saying that in the script the crew of the Prometheus are supposed to be braindead retards with PhD's in their respective fields.
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