PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
- Thread starter Chopper
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Yeah entirely possible.
Gamer @ Heart
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TURN 90 DEGREES AND RUN THAT WAY. JESUS
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
What? No. I'm angry BECAUSE it was an Alien film at all. It could have been so much better without any of the alien baggage attached to it. It doesn't just have 'Alien DNA' like Scott was saying. It's a goddamn Alien film through and through.
Which is pretty dumb because they chose for it not to be an "official" prequel yet people are angry that it doesn't match the Alien universe. Duh, they know.
Heh sounds exactly like Alien and Blade Runner really. People from 20 years from now will see Prometheus as an absolute classic and the haters will be internet-skullfucked by a descendant of Scullibundo
I dunno. It definately has a place with Alien, but for me it felt like a different take on the Alien mythos. Maybe it was the not-so-cast-driven narration or the much less focused plot.
It has been a fun evening of theorizing and hypothesizing about the film, but I'm not sure if I can bring myself go much further. The fact that the basic plotting and story outline of the movie is such a fucking mess means that I'm not sure that it is worth discussing the overarching mythology, symbolism, etc. A geologist gets lost in a cave of rocks, even though he clearly has a way to map out the structure and a radio communications link to the mothership that is constantly tracking his position. A biologist thinks it's a good idea to touch and confront a brand new species of alien, without knowing a god damned thing about it. A woman fails to mention to anyone that the medpod just extracted a god damned monster from her womb.
So little effort was put into the surface plot of the film, why should I believe that there is some complex well-constructed overarching mythology behind it? Yes, there are a lot of religious, mythological, and philosophical references. Just because you can load a movie down with references like that doesn't mean there is a cogent vision behind it. If they couldn't be bothered to pay attention to very basic internal logic, why assume that they were paying attention to major themes and backstory?
To me, it's like the difference between a David Lynch film with a strange, flexible but understandable narrative (Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks) and a David Lynch film where he's just throwing weird shit at the wall and hoping something sticks (Lost Highway, Inland Empire). Can you look at all the shit thrown on the wall in Prometheus and come up with some half-baked, half-satisfying explanation for it all? Maybe, but at the same time you still have the sense that the film's creator just expects you to assemble all his intentional nonsense in a way that makes sense. To me it seems like the film and its events are left open to interpretation only because of incompetence and incoherence at the script level, not because they intended to create something that would naturally and organically have multiple interpretations.
Because it's Ridley Scott I feel like people want to read a lot more into it than is there. If this were some muddled straight-to-DVD flick without the Hollywood actors or big production values, you would just dismiss it as ambitious-but-sophomoric mediocrity and not give it a second thought.
So little effort was put into the surface plot of the film, why should I believe that there is some complex well-constructed overarching mythology behind it? Yes, there are a lot of religious, mythological, and philosophical references. Just because you can load a movie down with references like that doesn't mean there is a cogent vision behind it. If they couldn't be bothered to pay attention to very basic internal logic, why assume that they were paying attention to major themes and backstory?
To me, it's like the difference between a David Lynch film with a strange, flexible but understandable narrative (Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks) and a David Lynch film where he's just throwing weird shit at the wall and hoping something sticks (Lost Highway, Inland Empire). Can you look at all the shit thrown on the wall in Prometheus and come up with some half-baked, half-satisfying explanation for it all? Maybe, but at the same time you still have the sense that the film's creator just expects you to assemble all his intentional nonsense in a way that makes sense. To me it seems like the film and its events are left open to interpretation only because of incompetence and incoherence at the script level, not because they intended to create something that would naturally and organically have multiple interpretations.
Because it's Ridley Scott I feel like people want to read a lot more into it than is there. If this were some muddled straight-to-DVD flick without the Hollywood actors or big production values, you would just dismiss it as ambitious-but-sophomoric mediocrity and not give it a second thought.
LowParry
Member
I think with the ending of Prometheus, it should of just not happened at all. We already got a sort of glimpse of the Xeno in the...eh, either "big head" room or the bridge. I think more of the Xeno's reveal should of been with a next/later movie. Come to think of it, there was something below that mural. A green sort of stone. Was that just Engineer interface technology or something else?
Heh sounds exactly like Alien and Blade Runner really. People from 20 years from now will see Prometheus as an absolute classic and the haters will be internet-skullfucked by a descendant of Scullibundo
I dunno. It definately has a place with Alien, but for me it felt like a different take on the Alien mythos. Maybe it was the not-so-cast-driven narration or the much less focused plot.
I'd been following this for a while and knew that it wasn't going to directly lead up to the Alien films. Considering how they stepped away from that idea early on I figured they didn't want to get into that Episode 1 syndrome, and that was ten confirmed a couple weeks ago with that Lindelof interview on The Verge. So I had no expectations of anything to do with Alien. In fact I expected even less Alien than I got. I was thinking this would be a a side story almost. An entirely new story set in the same universe.
Either way my problems were the underdeveloped/stupid characters, the clumsy faith stuff, dumb science, and the strange final 20 minutes. I still think it's worth seeing though. The first hour is quite good, the visuals are fantastic, and of course Michael Fassbender is great.
I see this thrown around all the time. Shaw was terrified of the company and anyone associated with it after she learned that she was pregneant and that they wanted her frozen and brought back to earth. She and the Cap'n shared the opinion, that nothing from that rock should ever return to earth.
TUROK
Member
This pretty much sums up my feelings. At this point I'm only in here to see if the whole mythos of the Xenomorph can be salvaged, but it seems unlikely.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I hate antagonism for conflict sake. Conflict can arise out of the plot without following the worst writing cliche ever of having characters already suspicious of one another. Again and again I'm reminded of just how fucking good the script for Sunshine is in how the characters are drawn.
Hehe, I see where your coming from. But as the characters found out, the more answers you receive, the more questions you will come up with. So in the end one believes what he chooses to believe. You think it sucked, I think it was very good and thought provoking. I might be reading you wrong, but are you saying you want a film where everything is spelled out for you and nothing left to your interpretation? Because if so, David Lynch was the worst example you could have come up with. All his movies are left to interpretation.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I absolutely agree with this. I was expecting tenuous links to Alien at best, but it was basically a straight prequel.
Spotless Mind
Member
So she doesn't bother to tell the captain anything about the alien being she extracted from herself? k.
Not to mention the two people she beat up before running from them--they're terrified of contamination and yet they don't alert anyone in a contained ship that there's a potential contamination vector giving birth in the fucking medbay?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The crew on that ship really needed somebody like Ripley to smack them upside the head for being so fucking stupid all the time.
Like the zombie or not, he was crucial in telling us of how the goo works besides degenerating anyone who gets in contact with it.
They probably didn't know about the alien fetus. It's not like David made a special announcement about it to everyone.
He's saying you need an understandable basic plot with characters who do things that makes sense before you can throw a bunch of references and hidden meaning at the audience. Mulholland Dr. is an example of David Lynch film that does this right. Inland Empire is one that doesn't. At least in my opinion. Maybe he doesn't like Mulholland Dr.
This, exactly.
And when the references are as juvenile or gratuitous as "it's Christmas!" (Jesus was totally born on that day, you guys!) or "oooh, they're washing Weyland's feet!", really...
I don't even know how you got that from that post.
Spotless Mind
Member
The black goo must inhibit people's ability to talk about things, because Holloway did the exact same thing. I was so annoyed when he saw the stuff in his eye and didn't instantly panic and tell Shaw. Manufactured drama for the sake of plot.
That isn't gratuitous. Superman Returns was gratuitous to the point it made you shake your head in the theater.
As shown by Prometheus threads there's like 1% of the posters who noticed these references right away.
Holloway knew it would be game over for him if he told anyone. Maybe he was a selfish dick, but he wouldn't be the first.
Regardless of whether they know about the alien fetus, a potentially contaminated women just went berserk on two of her crewmates before engaging the medbay. Don't they have cameras? What did the other two do? Why was there no one following up on her?
superfamicom
Banned
New xenomorph chest burster.
The actual scene in the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0s9sG_kWyY
The actual scene in the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0s9sG_kWyY
How was it not gratuitous, then?
Even supposing that's true, what would that have to do with anything?
Chiggs
Gold Member
Pretty mediocre movie overall. Everytime it did something right, it did two things wrong. Also, worst score in recent memory.
Although, I will forever laugh at the scene of Grandpa Pearce walking down the hallway aided by mechanical muscles. Fucking priceless.
Edit: I also thought Rapace was annoying as hell.
Although, I will forever laugh at the scene of Grandpa Pearce walking down the hallway aided by mechanical muscles. Fucking priceless.
Edit: I also thought Rapace was annoying as hell.
They were smacked the fuck down? And again, David could've just told 'em she had a mental breakdown because of Holloway = no contamination.
TUROK
Member
Here's another thing that bothers me. The Engineers created life on Earth, right? Then how come humans have identical DNA to the Engineers while animals don't?
Or were the animals already there, and the Engineers created humans specifically? And if so, what does that say about other primates having very similar genetic structures to us?
Or were the animals already there, and the Engineers created humans specifically? And if so, what does that say about other primates having very similar genetic structures to us?
It was in line with the themes of the movie clearly.
People insisting that the symbolism in this movie is cheap and stuffed down your throat?
I don't think you're expected to know evolution works.
Besides, it's just a theory! You can just choose to believe something else happened!
Just saw it. Holy shit that was terrible.
I wanted to like this movie so bad, but almost everything about it is a complete mess.
The tone is all off, there's very little tension or memorable action, the music is almost constantly at odds with what's going on in the movie, crises come and ago without any buildup or fanfare, the characters all act unrealistically and unprofessionally, contrivances happen because the plot dictates, there's nobody to like in the cast and no reason to like them, and worst of all...
It's terminally boring. It takes up two hours of time to say virtually nothing.
I wanted to like this movie so bad, but almost everything about it is a complete mess.
The tone is all off, there's very little tension or memorable action, the music is almost constantly at odds with what's going on in the movie, crises come and ago without any buildup or fanfare, the characters all act unrealistically and unprofessionally, contrivances happen because the plot dictates, there's nobody to like in the cast and no reason to like them, and worst of all...
It's terminally boring. It takes up two hours of time to say virtually nothing.
Well the details will always be scientificly inaccurate in these kind of movies no? The main thing is that somehow the engineer created human DNA from his own via the goo.
TUROK
Member
Lol, I don't think this movie expects us to know much of anything... Except for Greek and Christian myths, of course.
It was good, but not at all what I was expecting. So what the hell are the aliens...a sort of bio-weapon? Like terraforming in reverse?
As best I can make sense of things, the moon was sort of test. If one of the alien's creations went from worshipping them as gods to striving to be gods themselves, they would be unmade before they could ever pose a threat to the creator. The living alien was a volunteer kamikaze pilot kept in hyper sleep awaiting the first life forms to pass that man-god threshold test or something?
As best I can make sense of things, the moon was sort of test. If one of the alien's creations went from worshipping them as gods to striving to be gods themselves, they would be unmade before they could ever pose a threat to the creator. The living alien was a volunteer kamikaze pilot kept in hyper sleep awaiting the first life forms to pass that man-god threshold test or something?
Chiggs
Gold Member
I cringed when I saw that some of the music was done by Harry-Gregson Williams. What happened?
Not really. Shit went wrong at the dome and he was sleeping cuz that was the only way to protect himself from the attackers.
TUROK
Member
Bad editing, mostly.
Even though the last sequence in the movie is kind of a slap in the face to Alien fans, it still gave me chills due to the music.
Shame that the rest of the score wasn't rearranged this well.
"It's about ancient aliens creating life on Earth, so it's entirely appropriate and relevant to set the action on Christmas and zoom in on old man Weyland's feet being washed!"
How sophomoric/shallow can you get with the religious references?
I was talking about how gratuitous it was, and you replied "well, a lot of people didn't notice it!" Kinda beside the point.
Nope? Especially considering this movie considers itself "hard scifi" (holy shit).
And considering we're talking about evolution, here. Really, in this day and age... I mean, it's not string theory or rocket science.
I chalked that up to a contamination leak. The bio weapon goo leaked, infected someone or something, and set off a panic.
Weak sauce, I know. This movie makes no sense.
I don't know, but that weirdly hopeful theme didn't fit with the shit going down in this movie.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Sorry, but he was barely given anything interesting to do.
Well, he was there, on screen, and being Idris Elba, that's all he needed to do to be badass.
Did you miss the grand theme about asking the ultimate questions?
And I explained what I was referencing at. Kinda on point.
First of all none of the Alien films had "hard sci-fi" in them. You can pick the technology/science in them apart if you want to, but none were meant to be serious on tech side of things. "Believable" is completely separate from "scientificly accurate".
Also the movie acknowledges the obvious problems with evolution in the beginning. There's a character laughing at the idea of engineers creating us through "planned evolution". I'm ok with that, just as I'm ok with the ridiculous life cycle of the xeno in the original movie as well.
Chiggs
Gold Member
It's kind of insulting, though. He can do far more.
AHappyPanda
Member
I'm sure these points have been talked about in the thread but, PLOT HOLES AHOY!
- I'm a biologist who has ZERO interest in this dead engineer body here
- I'm the geologist who HATED the biologist, but hey, let's roll out together
- Oh fuck, we got lost somehow...even though we literally created an entire map of the place we're exploring minutes ago and everyone else got out OK...in the middle of a storm
- There's a blip on the scanner for a life form 1 click to the East?!?! FUCK DAT SHIT, we're going West, I ain't fuckin' with NO alien lifeforms...OH! A cute little snake! C'mere snake...OH GOD. Did I mention that earlier, I had NO interest even in the DEAD alien?
- Oh, I'm really sick and instead of even REMOTELY attempting to save myself, I volunteer to have Charlize Theron BURN me alive
- Oh that guy? He just had a GIANT SNAKE in his mouth, but we don't need to mention it again
- I ran away from two people and gave myself surgery on this MIND-BOGGLING male-only surgery capsule (btw, that thing is in Theron's character's emergency escape because you know...it makes sense for her to have a male-only surgery capsule)
- We spent over $1 trillion on this mission, and even though there were only 12 of these surgery capsules made...we could only afford this male-only one..even though the Weyland representative is a female and the main person who helped get the mission going is also female **previous two points above: pods are meant for Weyland**
- AWESOME, I cut the alien out, thank goodness NO one chased me even though David was SUPER adamant about me keeping the alien inside me and it's even BETTER that no one ask why the fuck I have 8 staples in my stomach
- Thank God I know the code to open this door here, OH Mr. Weyland is here!
- Oh yah, the geologist came back to life as a zombie and murdered 3 of the crew, but we don't need to talk about that either
- Stringer Bell instantly figured out what the aliens were doing (military base obviously) by just killing the zombie geologist
- You can escape from getting crushed by a huge alien ship by rolling to the left a couple of times, but don't run in a straight line like an idiot otherwise you WILL get crushed by a huge alien ship
- Hello, Elizabeth? This is David. I'm completely decapitated but no worries, I can still contact you via radio somehow? Also, don't worry, neither my body nor my head moved AT ALL during that HUGE crash I just went through
- Oh btw, that engineer is PISSED and is coming to kill you, but apparently door locks don't exist in this world and he's gonna roll up on you as soon as I finish this sentence
EDIT: Forgot to add this,
- Us? We're just the Captain's lackeys. Oh what? He literally said he could crash Prometheus into the alien ship himself and to save ourselves? NAH, we BOTH decided to become heroes and sacrifice our lives as if we were deciding what to eat for dinner, steak or ramen? EASY CHOICE. We're going down with the ship, HANDS UP!
Other thoughts:
Hey Ridley, remember that the space jockey (engineer) was fossilized and in the piloting seat in Alien 1 with its chest burst open, shouldn't we somehow get that into the movie as to maintain some sort of consistency between the films? Nah... **Completely different planets, so this complaint of mine no longer has any basis**
This movie pretty much further built my dislike for the Alien franchise due to it's utter lack of discipline to keep any sort of canon. They literally just make shit up from film-to-film. Yeah, I don't like the Alien movies. I said it. I was REALLY hopeful for Prometheus because even though I don't really like the franchise, the universe it attempts to create is still pretty interesting. It's too bad they don't care about their own universe.
- I'm a biologist who has ZERO interest in this dead engineer body here
- I'm the geologist who HATED the biologist, but hey, let's roll out together
- Oh fuck, we got lost somehow...even though we literally created an entire map of the place we're exploring minutes ago and everyone else got out OK...in the middle of a storm
- There's a blip on the scanner for a life form 1 click to the East?!?! FUCK DAT SHIT, we're going West, I ain't fuckin' with NO alien lifeforms...OH! A cute little snake! C'mere snake...OH GOD. Did I mention that earlier, I had NO interest even in the DEAD alien?
- Oh, I'm really sick and instead of even REMOTELY attempting to save myself, I volunteer to have Charlize Theron BURN me alive
- Oh that guy? He just had a GIANT SNAKE in his mouth, but we don't need to mention it again
- I ran away from two people and gave myself surgery on this MIND-BOGGLING male-only surgery capsule (btw, that thing is in Theron's character's emergency escape because you know...it makes sense for her to have a male-only surgery capsule)
- We spent over $1 trillion on this mission, and even though there were only 12 of these surgery capsules made...we could only afford this male-only one..even though the Weyland representative is a female and the main person who helped get the mission going is also female **previous two points above: pods are meant for Weyland**
- AWESOME, I cut the alien out, thank goodness NO one chased me even though David was SUPER adamant about me keeping the alien inside me and it's even BETTER that no one ask why the fuck I have 8 staples in my stomach
- Thank God I know the code to open this door here, OH Mr. Weyland is here!
- Oh yah, the geologist came back to life as a zombie and murdered 3 of the crew, but we don't need to talk about that either
- Stringer Bell instantly figured out what the aliens were doing (military base obviously) by just killing the zombie geologist
- You can escape from getting crushed by a huge alien ship by rolling to the left a couple of times, but don't run in a straight line like an idiot otherwise you WILL get crushed by a huge alien ship
- Hello, Elizabeth? This is David. I'm completely decapitated but no worries, I can still contact you via radio somehow? Also, don't worry, neither my body nor my head moved AT ALL during that HUGE crash I just went through
- Oh btw, that engineer is PISSED and is coming to kill you, but apparently door locks don't exist in this world and he's gonna roll up on you as soon as I finish this sentence
EDIT: Forgot to add this,
- Us? We're just the Captain's lackeys. Oh what? He literally said he could crash Prometheus into the alien ship himself and to save ourselves? NAH, we BOTH decided to become heroes and sacrifice our lives as if we were deciding what to eat for dinner, steak or ramen? EASY CHOICE. We're going down with the ship, HANDS UP!
Other thoughts:
Hey Ridley, remember that the space jockey (engineer) was fossilized and in the piloting seat in Alien 1 with its chest burst open, shouldn't we somehow get that into the movie as to maintain some sort of consistency between the films? Nah... **Completely different planets, so this complaint of mine no longer has any basis**
This movie pretty much further built my dislike for the Alien franchise due to it's utter lack of discipline to keep any sort of canon. They literally just make shit up from film-to-film. Yeah, I don't like the Alien movies. I said it. I was REALLY hopeful for Prometheus because even though I don't really like the franchise, the universe it attempts to create is still pretty interesting. It's too bad they don't care about their own universe.
I think the scene where he dismisses the scared broteam in the dome with a laugh was excellent and made the character interesting to me. Also he seemed really calm and collected all the time. They didn't write him to be this walking single viewpoint stereotype "dumb soldier" type, that you'd expect.
Slow burner in a sense that it will stand time or in a way that people keep discussing it's story long after watching it?
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