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[EdReedFan20]

I'm actually really disappointed in Andrew Goldfarb. He should know better. And why do so many people think the "BREAKOUT BOX" is there to help with the PS4 to do VR? Jesus Christ!

Since the breakout box only splits the image (as well as reworking it as a normal image for TV) and does the 3D audio, I really wish they built that stuff into the PS4 Pro. Less cable management and all.

Right now, this is the set-up:

• HDMI from back/side of HDTV to the back of PSVR breakout box.
• HDMI from the back of PSVR breakout box to the back of PS4/PS4 Slim/PS4 Pro.
• USB cable from the back of PSVR breakout box to front of the PS4/PS4 Slim or back of the PS4 Pro.
• Power brick from the back of PSVR breakout box to your power outlet.
• PSVR cables from the PSVR headset to the front of the PSVR breakout box.
• Headphones into the PSVR.

If they managed to ever build the PS4 breakout box into PS4, only the last two steps would be necessary (unless you can play PSVR without headphones if you want- though, you'd pass up on 3D audio).

 

[Planet]

Also you'd have a metre less cable to move before you begin to ruin those connectors, tugging on your console...

 

[ZarKryn7]

You aren't finding that to be a little problematic, considering how much they A) get wrong about readily available products B) refuse to research tech or titles that they list but haven't seen someone else cover, C) readily dismiss and mock titles and entire categories of titles because they simply have no interest in them personally? Once upon a time they actually had to read up on what was passing through as incoming content and news. They aren't beholden to simple fact checking anymore. Not for themselves nor for the audience. And maybe we shouldn't expect them to is my point.

Yeah.... I witness them do that a lot on Media Molecule, Crash (they only played the first game BTW), and racing games.

Its weird I see the more PlayStation...vibe?.. on EasyAllies then on them.

 

[ArmageddB]

I'm actually really disappointed in Andrew Goldfarb. He should know better. And why do so many people think the "BREAKOUT BOX" is there to help with the PS4 to do VR? Jesus Christ!

Because it looks like an itsy bitsy PS4 which means it must have an itsy bitsy processor and itsy bitsy ram and a (non-UHD) itsy bitsy Blu Ray drive.

Who wants to bet that 4k tv searches for black Friday and week of BF sales are going to go through the roof this year? Anyone who takes that bet is going to lose.

That spike happened last year. HDR is the big spike this year:

https://www.google.ca/trends/explore?q=hdr,4k

 

[RedAssedApe]

Because it looks like an itsy bitsy PS4 which means it must have an itsy bitsy processor and itsy bitsy ram and a (non-UHD) itsy bitsy Blu Ray drive.



That spike happened last year. HDR is the big spike this year:

https://www.google.ca/trends/explore?q=hdr,4k

poor guys will need to buy new tvs if their old ones aren't upgradeable to support hdr.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

You aren't finding that to be a little problematic, considering how much they A) get wrong about readily available products B) refuse to research tech or titles that they list but haven't seen someone else cover, C) readily dismiss and mock titles and entire categories of titles because they simply have no interest in them personally? Once upon a time they actually had to read up on what was passing through as incoming content and news. They aren't beholden to simple fact checking anymore. Not for themselves nor for the audience. And maybe we shouldn't expect them to is my point.

No you're absolutely right. I agree that ever since they both left IGN they aren't beholden to fact checking. I remember once Greg asked Tim if the PS4 was $399 or $349 when it clearly had a price drop just a couple weeks before that particular episode.

Stuff like that always made me wonder hmmm "Greg that's a gimme you should know what the answer is." But I know longer listen to PS I Love you for PS info but for entertainment really. I've listened to these 2 guys for so long every single week for years.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

And why do so many people think the "BREAKOUT BOX" is there to help with the PS4 to do VR? Jesus Christ!

I think it's just a mix of straight up ignorance on the part of many journalists and also some people remembering and believing that Bullshit article a while back saying that the normal ps4 would be terrible for vr and so they think it needs the extra box to run.

Thats also why I think many journalists keep going on about 'ps4 pro will help vr'. Ps4 standard will be running vr fine and we have a tonne of hands on experiences proving that but some people seems obsessed with the Pro helping out vr performance 'how will it help?/does the Pro have the breakout box built in?'.

We know that the only way ps4 pro will help vr is better visuals and maybe jumping from 90fps to 120fps or something along those lines but otherwise Sony are being really strict with the performance so they dont need to worry about the Base performance in vr games. it is already meeting the minimum requirements since its vital to preventing sickness and stopping reputational damage but I keep reading well known people going on about it and it's getting pretty annoying.

 

[Cyriades]

Who wants to bet that 4k tv searches for black Friday and week of BF sales are going to go through the roof this year? Anyone who takes that bet is going to lose.

That reminds me Andrew Goldfarb arguing the point he didn't want to buy a 4k TV... these guys are stuck in nostalgia past.. Look you can like both new and old games.

You can buy 43" 4k TVs from walmart for $200. HDR compatible ones for $500

I get a feeling some people still think 4k TVs are like $3,000 or something

 

[Stillmatic]

I just don't understand how someone can think it's not a good idea.

• Very affordable at only $100 more than the standard PS4
• It's a completely optional mid gen upgrade
• There's a slim standard PS4 model if you'd rather that for $100 less
• The HDD is twice the size of most PS4's out there (Including mine)
• Completely compatible with existing and future PS4 content and ecosystem
• GPU is a large upgrade
• CPU has a minor boost

1080p set owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

VR owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

4KTV owners
• Obvious visual benefits not available through standard PS4
• HDR

With a trade in it's a no-brainer for me.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

That reminds me Andrew Goldfarb arguing the point he didn't want to buy a 4k TV... these guys are stuck in nostalgia past.. Look you can like both new and old games.

You can buy 43" 4k TVs from walmart for $200. HDR compatible ones for $500

I get a feeling some people still think 4k TVs are like $3,000 or something

Yeah but to get the full benefits of HDR, the gradient color depth must be 10-bit and support wide color gamut. After those two things, you obviously want to make sure that the motion blur and input lag or as low as possible.

I'm currently looking at the Sony X800D for $650.00 for these few months as the other TV's just don't grab me and im staying away from Samsung due to that stupid connect one box. Really hoping that their 2017 models don't have the same damn thing.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm actually really disappointed in Andrew Goldfarb. He should know better.

Why would you expect that? He's only the executive editor of news for the largest gaming website in the world.

 

[Cyriades]

Yeah but to get the full benefits of HDR, the gradient color depth must be 10-bit and support wide color gamut. After those two things, you obviously want to make sure that the motion blur and input lag or as low as possible.

I'm currently looking at the Sony X800D for $650.00 for these few months as the other TV's just don't grab me and im staying away from Samsung due to that stupid connect one box. Really hoping that their 2017 models don't have the same damn thing.

I agree with you. But a 8bit panel with wide color Gamut can display more colors than a 10bit panel without wide color Gamut. See my post here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=216977131&highlight=#post216977131

Don't get too caught up in panel bits... but yeah, a 10bit with wide color Gamut would be ideal.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

I was holding off on this episode because I really didn't want to hear more uninformed discussions about the pro. Sounds like the first episode I should skip huh. It's a shame cuz I like Goldy.

Its weird I see the more PlayStation...vibe?.. on EasyAllies then on them.

Does it count if they like everything?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

If he wants to get his ass kissed this isn't the place for him. Let's move on.

 

[Curufinwe]

My buddy also tells me Colin is basing off his prediction that it will flop from what he hears (fans, sources, etc. I mean he was a journalist after all). the numbers my bud has and what ZhugeEX has says otherwise as of now.

He's just exhibiting false consensus bias.

In psychology, the false-consensus effect or false-consensus bias is an attributional type of cognitive bias whereby people tend to overestimate the extent to which their opinions, beliefs, preferences, values, and habits are normal and typical of those of others (i.e., that others also think the same way that they do)

 

[GOOCHY]

Hell, maybe Colin and Goldfarb should have ordered chicken wings in episode 52. It might have worked out better for them.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

I agree with you. But a 8bit panel with wide color Gamut can display more colors than a 10bit panel without wide color Gamut. See my post here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=216977131&highlight=#post216977131

Don't get too caught up in panel bits... but yeah, a 10bit with wide color Gamut would be ideal.

By next year, do you think 10 bit wide color gamut will be readily available?

 

[Dante316]

I just saw the YouTube video. So much negativity for ps4pro..I really don't understand why they did that. As others have pointed out, its optional and only $100 more then slim and probably 2.5x powerful and 12 months before Microsoft.

 

[Cyriades]

By next year, do you think 10 bit wide color gamut will be readily available?

True 10bit with wide color gamut is available now. Yes, they are expensive.

Most 10bit panels are really 8bit + FRC to achieve 1.07 billion colors.

The real question is does it matter? 1.07 billion colors is 1.07 billion colors right?

 

[Nightengale]

I've tweeted to folks like Andrew, Ryan, etc a few times on the PSVR box misinformation, and it's disappointing they don't bother to read/update their knowledge on it, despite the info being specifically stated to being targeted at them.

 

[Omnistalgic]

All I know is I just went to Best Buy and saw some of the 4K sets and I want a new TV!!! It looks incredible...

Gonna be hard to hold off till next year man

 

[T-0800]

Why would you expect that? He's only the executive editor of news for the largest gaming website in the world.

Neogaf?

 

[Ashtrax]

The real question though is what does Pachter say?

On his latest episode of Pachter Factor (on SIFTD), he says the machine will be a hit. Putting aside specs and UHD blu-ray drives, and whatever we all think, just look at it's value proposition and when it's releasing. It's a no brainer for the mass market.

 

[EdReedFan20]

The real question though is what does Pachter say?

Speaking of Pachter, a few weeks ago when someone asked if PS4 Pro would release for the holidays this year, and he said not a prayer.

 

[Cyriades]

Speaking of Pachter, a few weeks ago when someone asked if PS4 Pro would release for the holidays this year, and he said not a prayer.

 

[arkon]

Does it count if they like everything?

They don't like everything. They just tend to focus on what they do like (from what I've seen). Stuff they're not interested in is usually met with indifference (see the recent podcast bit about Dishonored 2)

 

[Neifirst]

I just don't understand how someone can think it's not a good idea.

• Very affordable at only $100 more than the standard PS4
• It's a completely optional mid gen upgrade
• There's a slim standard PS4 model if you'd rather that for $100 less
• The HDD is twice the size of most PS4's out there (Including mine)
• Completely compatible with existing and future PS4 content and ecosystem
• GPU is a large upgrade
• CPU has a minor boost

1080p set owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

VR owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

4KTV owners
• Obvious visual benefits not available through standard PS4
• HDR

With a trade in it's a no-brainer for me.

Part of the problem is that you've done a much better job summarizing the situation than Sony did during their press conference. To their credit, the PlayStation blog FAQ did a good job detailing exactly what benefits 1080p television set owners can expect when upgrading to the Pro, but potential customers (and journalists) had to seek out that clarity on their own.

I'm getting the Pro at launch, but I'm holding off on a 4K set for now because I want to make sure that I get something that will include all of the bells & whistles for this generation of televisions. I'd be pretty P.O.'d right now if I had purchased a 4K set without HDR within the past year.

 

[dark10x]

I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities. That is a line of thinking rooted in the past during transitions from 2D to 3D and to machines like PlayStation 2 and Xbox. To suggest that a hardware upgrade is only worthwhile in the face of new gameplay is silly as long as we're using two dimensional displays. VR opens the gate, and Sony has embraced that, but there's nothing a PlayStation 5 with dramatically more power could really introduce that would change the way we play games on a television.

Games are limited by budget, staff ability, and time. That's it. Anything you want to achieve can be achieved with the right combination.

If he is disappointed that PS4 Pro brings no additional gameplay opportunities to the table then I suspect he will remain disappointed with all future machines. We've simply passed the point where hardware is the limiting factor.

 

[Mokubba]

Part of the problem is that you've done a much better job summarizing the situation than Sony did during their press conference. To their credit, the PlayStation blog FAQ did a good job detailing exactly what benefits 1080p television set owners can expect when upgrading to the Pro, but potential customers (and journalists) had to seek out that clarity on their own.

I'm getting the Pro at launch, but I'm holding off on a 4K set for now because I want to make sure that I get something that will include all of the bells & whistles for this generation of televisions. I'd be pretty P.O.'d right now if I had purchased a 4K set without HDR within the past year.

The same journalists who had the leaked documents which detailed everything plus more.
I don't think their presentation was that difficult to understand but I would understand if the casual gamer had more questions at the end but not the journalists but that's just my opinion.

 

[thuway]

Yep. Likewise agreed. It's already off to a great start for preorders. Mine included, heh. That's just best buy, I'm really curious about game stop and Wal-Mart, because it's tearing it up at Amazon.

I know this isn't a musings thread but how are preorders?

 

[T-0800]

I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities. .

No need to quote your entire post to say that I agree.

 

[goonergaz]

I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities. That is a line of thinking rooted in the past during transitions from 2D to 3D and to machines like PlayStation 2 and Xbox. To suggest that a hardware upgrade is only worthwhile in the face of new gameplay is silly as long as we're using two dimensional displays. VR opens the gate, and Sony has embraced that, but there's nothing a PlayStation 5 with dramatically more power could really introduce that would change the way we play games on a television.

Games are limited by budget, staff ability, and time. That's it. Anything you want to achieve can be achieved with the right combination.

If he is disappointed that PS4 Pro brings no additional gameplay opportunities to the table then I suspect he will remain disappointed with all future machines. We've simply passed the point where hardware is the limiting factor.

I know what you mean, but its like open worlds - what's 'next gens' open worlds? There will be some gaming mechanic that couldn't be done last gen that will next.

 

[Markitron]

I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities.

This kinda reminds me of when Infamous Second Sun released, and Digital Foundry (of all places) singled it out and criticised it for just being a prettier version of the previous games.

It's not hard to grasp: Next gen = more power = more detail = more immersion = next gen

 

[goonergaz]

This kinda reminds me of when Infamous Second Sun released, and Digital Foundry (of all places) singled it out and criticised it for just being a prettier version of the previous games.

It's not hard to grasp: Next gen = more power = more detail = more immersion = next gen

Yes, I suppose so - in my example of open worlds (which of course there were last gen) - I just meant more 'rich' and 'believable' open worlds - less closed doors and more 'going on'. I guess it's just the same thing just prettier in effect.

There will be some game mechanic though, maybe off the back of No Man's Sky we might see some good use of proceedually generated games.

 

[pelican]

I'm surprised to see people finding it odd about Greg Miller not being up to speed regarding the Pro, etc. I've always found him to be a buffoon fueled by the sound of his own voice and ego.

 

[ST2K]

I'm surprised to see people finding it odd about Greg Miller not being up to speed regarding the Pro, etc. I've always found him to be a buffoon fueled by the sound of his own voice and ego.

Why are you even in this thread? You clearly don't care for either of the hosts.

 

[pelican]

Why are you even in this thread? You clearly don't care for either of the hosts.

Didn't realise this was a star struck fans only thread. Am I not allowed to state my opinion?

My points are valid and are being communicated appropriately. I am not spamming the thread with negativity - out of all the pages which build this thread I believe I have posted less than 10 times.

At the end of the day I think both are fair game to criticism. The are self-proclaimed PlayStation experts after all.

 

[EmiPrime]

Yes, I suppose so - in my example of open worlds (which of course there were last gen) - I just meant more 'rich' and 'believable' open worlds - less closed doors and more 'going on'. I guess it's just the same thing just prettier in effect.

There will be some game mechanic though, maybe off the back of No Man's Sky we might see some good use of proceedually generated games.

I hope VR takes off and we'll have bigger, better and prettier VR games next generation. Maybe room scale VR will even be affordable enough for the console makers to support it. That would get me to buy a PS5 on launch as I think HTC Vive looks incredible. Nobody would be able to trot out the usual "this is the same as last gen but prettier" nonsense!

 

[ST2K]

Didn't realise this was a star struck fans only thread. Am I not allowed to state my opinion?

My points are valid and are being communicated appropriately. I am not spamming the thread with negativity - out of all the pages which build this thread I believe I have posted less than 10 times.

At the end of the day I think both are fair game to criticism. The are self-proclaimed PlayStation experts after all.

I agree you can criticize and state your opinion (though calling someone a buffoon is over the line). Just wondering why you're in this thread considering that post, and some of the others.

Regarding the Playstation Pro. Watch the hypocrisy at work with the inevitable reaction/unboxing video after KF recieve a free demo unit from Sony.

It is was awful reaction post. Toys, pram etc.

An astute observation.

His rant in the current reveal episode is cringe inducing.

Him referencing another games media member as a barometer for developers feelings was a true eye rolling moment.

I know I am now being quite snarky, but we are talking about IGN.

I've never understood the assumption of working on a games site = expertise/knowledge. I've always believed that the ones with the real talent and an eye for design move into actual development roles.

I think you give IGN too much credit.

It isn't an epitome of high quality investigative journalism.

Anyone else find it amusing to find someone releasing videos on YT criticising others for not being creative? You seriously couldn't write this stuff.

Games media reminds me of the project team member who is quick to highlight problems, but unable to bring the solutions. Hot air/full of bluster, but in the long term forgettable.

"be more creative"

OK, how?

Does he actually believe that?

That bravado might impress the kids, but for the adults among us less so.

Exactly, they hypocrisy of "games media".

Awful attitude to display publicly.

If he did indeed say this then I hope people remember this when the site is promoting their business - donations, patreon, merchandise sales, event tickets, etc.

Until Sony send them a unit for coverage/unboxing.

*gratis naturally.

 

[pelican]

I've tweeted to folks like Andrew, Ryan, etc a few times on the PSVR box misinformation, and it's disappointing they don't bother to read/update their knowledge on it, despite the info being specifically stated to being targeted at them.

Why should he? No one holds them to accountability. Dependent on the site the audience might not know about the inaccuracies and are easily impressed by bravado and soapbox rants.

 

[pelican]

I agree you can criticize and state your opinion. Just wondering why you're in this thread considering that post, and some of the others.

Have you got nothing better to do than search my posts and quote them? I don't think KFG have an open position for PR ;p

At the end of the day if either host agrees with my opinion they are open to respond.

 

[timberger]

Wow, looks like this thread had a lot of would-be white knights come to rescue Colin Moriarty from imaginary personal attacks. Guess that's what happens when you don't read the thread.

 

[paulogy]

It is increasingly obvious to me that with both VR and 4K we are entering an era of "you have to see it yourself to believe it" for games. Or "you had to be there". And since the millions of us don't have the means (or the invitation) to attend all these events, that's where the enthusiast press come in. But if enthusiast press can't be our eyes and ears to see firsthand games we won't be able to experience ourselves until launch, what's the point?

In general from the industry I would prefer a lot less basement editorials and a lot more eyewitness accounts anyway. There really are some things more well-funded sites can do better than the increasing number of one-man (or one-woman) outlets on YouTube - and that's get people to where the games actually are: E3. Gamescom. TGS. etc. Opinions are opinions, but I think the difference in quality of coverage that results from playing these games firsthand is clear. I think VR and 4K may only amplify those differences going forward.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

True 10bit with wide color gamut is available now. Yes, they are expensive.

Most 10bit panels are really 8bit + FRC to achieve 1.07 billion colors.

The real question is does it matter? 1.07 billion colors is 1.07 billion colors right?

Yeah, I'm waiting until next year, just wondering if those will still be über expensive by then.

 

[karasu]

I can't even bring myself to say anything negative about Goldfarb. I'm sure he'll correct himself.

 

[Sanador]

I used to find them entertaining, but the negativity and ignorance that has been in the last two podcasts was pretty unlistenable. HDR is like VR, you have to see it in person to judge it. Why they blew off their invitations to the event boggles me. You would think they would want to keep up with technology, given the nature of their careers. /shrug

Anyway, PSNation's coverage was pretty good. Digital Foundry did some excellent coverage. Switching to them for my go-to PS podcasts for news on this new emerging generation.

I still listen to PSILU for entertainment as long as it doesn't stay so negative...plenty of negativity in the world and I don't need it in my hobby. I am looking forward to their reaction when they actually experience HDR.

 

[Sanador]

The only thing I really want to say on this topic is:

I found it really strange that neither KF member ended up attending the conference in person. Hindsight is of course 20/20, but it is clear now that those that actually attended the conference in person came away with much more positive impressions than those that watched the livestream.

Perhaps it was a mistake by Sony to livestream something that can't be demonstrated well over a stream.

Perhaps 4K/HDR should be treated more like VR, where you just admit that the vast majority of people need to actually experience it in person to see the benefit.

Perhaps it was the fact that the people in attendance could actually see the HDR and 4K difference.

Perhaps it was that those in attendance also got to actually play the games, toggle the 4K/HDR on and off themselves, and most importantly, talk directly to the developers without the veil of secrecy and NDAs clouding what can be said, that made them realize how great of an upgrade it is, and how the PS4P will benefit 1080p gamers as well.

It just seems really weird to me that you would pass up the opportunity to attend such an event. I would be curious to know why they decided to do that.

Colin said in the podcast it would have been a waste of time.

 

[bogg]

I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities. That is a line of thinking rooted in the past during transitions from 2D to 3D and to machines like PlayStation 2 and Xbox. To suggest that a hardware upgrade is only worthwhile in the face of new gameplay is silly as long as we're using two dimensional displays. VR opens the gate, and Sony has embraced that, but there's nothing a PlayStation 5 with dramatically more power could really introduce that would change the way we play games on a television.

Games are limited by budget, staff ability, and time. That's it. Anything you want to achieve can be achieved with the right combination.

If he is disappointed that PS4 Pro brings no additional gameplay opportunities to the table then I suspect he will remain disappointed with all future machines. We've simply passed the point where hardware is the limiting factor.

You bring up a great point, and I just want to add that every time he bring out this silly argument he always mention how VR is awesome because it enables new gameplay possibility's, but we wouldn't have VR at this level without more powerful hardware and he never mentions that.
Just a little thing that's been bugging me, I like Colin and Greg even if I disagree with them about certain things.

 

[Sanador]

I just don't understand how someone can think it's not a good idea.

• Very affordable at only $100 more than the standard PS4
• It's a completely optional mid gen upgrade
• There's a slim standard PS4 model if you'd rather that for $100 less
• The HDD is twice the size of most PS4's out there (Including mine)
• Completely compatible with existing and future PS4 content and ecosystem
• GPU is a large upgrade
• CPU has a minor boost

1080p set owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

VR owners
• Better visuals
• Better performance

4KTV owners
• Obvious visual benefits not available through standard PS4
• HDR

With a trade in it's a no-brainer for me.

I totally agree. I am saving my pennies though. I don't want to trade in my Arkham Knight PS4.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

I just don't understand how someone can think it's not a good idea.



With a trade in it's a no-brainer for me.

If I didn't just spend 300$ on a video card last year, I would totally agree with you. But Alas, OG PS4 for me.