RichiRamjag
Member
I thought he was a bit of a joke initially on IGN, but he's actually pretty cool and very passionate about games. I'd give him another try if I were you.
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
I thought he was a bit of a joke initially on IGN, but he's actually pretty cool and very passionate about games. I'd give him another try if I were you.
Yep, I've really enjoyed the PSNation podcasts I've listened to recently, I'm definitely switching to them as my go-to podcast for all things Playstation (as well as the PS Blogcast, those guys are great).
Done with PSILU for now, not sure I'll resub.
Neuromancer
Member
Thanks I'll check them out. It's good to have alternatives.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Well, they think the Pro is on the level of Xbox One S.
The standard PS4 is more powerful than the One S!
The Pro is even more than double that power of the standard PS4!!
Can you imagine how much more power that is compared to the One s?
I think they need to do some research or hire someone knowledgeable about tech stuff. Technology is developing pretty fast and they need to keep up with it regarding PS4Pro, 4k,HDR, and future technologies.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Does anyone else think that the KF guys say 'like' too much, or is it just me. I'm a native English speaker but not American, so maybe it's just part of the accent? Either way, now that I have noticed it, I'm finding it pretty irritating. Tim is the worst for it.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Yeah it's uh.. like an American habit.
Yes I forgot to include that statement annoyed me so much. S and Pro on same level. I was like wtf and had to rewind to make sure I heard correct.
Dark dropping truth bombs. Maybe that's the root of his frustration who knows, but I guess we'll never know!
H.Cornerstone
Member
That's not entirely accurate. Half-Life 2 would not be possible on the Playstation 2. The physics required in the gravity gun were not possible before hand.
And considering the Gravity Gun was the coolest thing about that game (especially the end) that is a pretty big deal.
As others have brought up, Mordor and the nemesis system were not possible before.
Will we ever see something that is a big as Jump as Ocarina of Time or Mario 64? No. But that doesn't mean we won't see cool new things allowed by more powerful hardware like a Gravity Gun or Nemesis system.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I have obviously heard it before, but just never to this extent. Now that I have noticed it, it's gonna take some getting used to.
True, although it did come to the Xbox. I finished it there, but I think the framerate was pretty poor.
SpideySenses
Member
I generally agree with Colin with this whole debate but I think he's dead wrong to dismiss the nemesis system. Is it possible that if TLoU didn't exist, that Naughty Dog could have made an open world game with the nemesis system working on the PS3? Considering they're arguable the best developer who worked on system, probably. But they have time and resources that 99% of developers don't have and it's Monolith who came with the idea and if they needed a new generation to pull it off, then you should credit the improved hardware for making it possible.
If Rockstar had held off releasing GTA V on last gen, I'm sure there's many features in that game that you'd think not possible without the new hardware but just like Naughty Dog, those guys are magicians who shouldn't be considered the norm. More powerful hardware means developers with more modest budgets and less time have a chance to make the games they dream of and that shouldn't be sniffed at.
LifEndz
Member
Agreed. They did one of the better podcasts covering the pro and its specs that I've heard thus far. An objective analysis and explanation of the specs and one of them actually went to the event and he talked about what that games looked like firsthand as well as what devs said regarding the machine. Then they got into their subjective opinions on it. Hell, they even broke down the two different types of HDR formats. Definitely worth a listen.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I look at more powerful CGI like I do more powerful Hardware. You are reducing the limits on directors/developers imagination. It's up to them to use it correctly.
I think the "problem" with Colin is he has been gaming since NES (as have a lot of us) and we all remember that first time we played a 3D game like Ocarina of TIme,GTA III or Mario 64 and how much it blew our minds. And that won't really happen again (except maybe VR). And expecting that is just fools good.
And I don't even know if the last of us would have been possible on PS2. The AI and Animation of Ellie I am guessing takes a decent amount of hardware (as do the in game cut scenes). That is pure speculation on my part though.
McMoneyman
Member
Greg says: "you know what I mean" a lot too haha.
I don't see what is so advanced about the nemesis system. I bet a developer could some up with a pretty good PS2 era version of the nemesis system (even if it was half faked).
I'm not a developer, but Mike Bithell is, and he figures even an indie studio could implement such a system:
http://mikebithell.tumblr.com/post/99908924852/what-to-steal-shadow-of-mordors-nemesis-system
Part of what I took from Colins perspective of "this game doesnt count" is that its not simply a new mechanic, but he is expecting a new whole genre. I think this because of how he dismissed Witcher 3 by saying "we had open world games" (or something to that affect).
I think thats asking a bit much considering how many genres are just slight variations of another genre. There is literally NOTHING new about The Last of Us. It perfected many things (and didnt perfect many things) but nothing about it was new. Why this is seemingly the game he keeps going to is a bit confusing, but I feel like with some other points, may just be poorly defended due to it being a non-thought out immediate talking point.
I think thats asking a bit much considering how many genres are just slight variations of another genre. There is literally NOTHING new about The Last of Us. It perfected many things (and didnt perfect many things) but nothing about it was new. Why this is seemingly the game he keeps going to is a bit confusing, but I feel like with some other points, may just be poorly defended due to it being a non-thought out immediate talking point.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I'm assuming the AI required to keep track of kills and things like that.
Pure speculation. Again, all I know is they had to strip it out of the PS3/360 version.
I agree, I think the Nemesis system and other complex systems could have been done on older systems. There would just be compromises and it wouldn't be nearly as good, of course. So I don't think it's fair for Colin to say it's *just* better graphics. More power has the potential to help every part of a game.
Woodchipper
Member
I for one agree with Colin. I've been a PlayStation fan since 1997, when I got a PS1 for Christmas, but this is so disappointing. I've been disappointed since the leak early this year.
This is in no way needed. All it does is complicate things, for customers as well as for developers. As already pointed out, if you care this much about graphics, you're in the wrong place.
The slim is way more appealing to me, but as long as my original PS4 works I'm fine.
This is in no way needed. All it does is complicate things, for customers as well as for developers. As already pointed out, if you care this much about graphics, you're in the wrong place.
The slim is way more appealing to me, but as long as my original PS4 works I'm fine.
MrMatt555
Member
I guess my main criticism is that...how exactly is it more complicated for consumers? How does it complicate things for you? You can keep playing new and old games exactly like you could before, it's the least complicated thing in the world. It's pretty clear who benefits from the Pro and how, and it's super clear that Pro isn't needed to play any upcoming PS4 titles.
I really think the confusion is incredibly overblown, I think it's something that people just yelled into existence. The only confusion I've seen pertains to what HDR is and how it benefits games. But that's less a problem for the PS4 Pro as it is just for evolving TV technology.
If people are able to grasp going to an Apple store and choosing between an iPhone SE, 6, 6S, 7, or 7S, I'm pretty confident they can wrap their minds around this.
Neuromancer
Member
A PS4 that runs all of the the same games but with prettier graphics isn't that complicated.
That said if you're not interested in it the good news is you can keep playing your OG PS4 for years to come. They're not taking anything away from you.
That said if you're not interested in it the good news is you can keep playing your OG PS4 for years to come. They're not taking anything away from you.
MrMatt555
Member
This is not the case at all for mom's trying to get their son a ps4 for christmas.
I work in retail and you'd be surprised at how many mom's still think the wii u is just an accessory for the wii
Neuromancer
Member
Does she want to spend $100 more for 2x the hard drive space and better graphics? It's not that hard.
Most of its sales will come when it becomes the base PS4
RedAssedApe
Banned
the same people who upgrade their phones and pcs. we'll see if console gamers will fall prey to the same upgrade bug.
depending on who you ask we're still only at the midway point of the generation. still lot of new sales to go if the upward trend continues. cheaper base ps4 will obviously sell more...but some of the people will opt for the pro simply because they want the best version available.
MrMatt555
Member
Not a chance. the primary focus of the machine is 4k.
MrMatt555
Member
The Ps4PRO has the potential to either succeed or bomb. Time will tell if Sony's investment will bear fruit.
What's 4k got to do with what I said?
MrMatt555
Member
It has everything to do with it. Why would they make the primary ps4 something that caters to a niche audience.
I mean, at some point retail employees just need to answer a couple questions.
"My son wants a PS4 for Christmas"
"Great. Did they say which one specifically?"
"No, what's the difference?"
"There's the Slim and the Pro. They both play the same games, and function almost exactly the same. The main difference is that the Pro costs $100 more, and has a bit more power to benefit 4K TVs. If your kid is younger, that's largely a non-factor and won't go noticed, and you're 100% safe going with the Slim. If this was for an older person, who really invests in all the newest tech, I'd recommend the Pro."
It's fine.
It does everything the OG PS4 does. They will phase out the slim and the "PS5" and Pro will share games.
H.Cornerstone
Member
That won't be for 3 years probably
JStein0222
Member
It's all over. The retail space is cluttered beyond comprehension.
/s
But really, that was a great couple sentence description for the layman
Forever Changes
Banned
If only most bestbuy employees we're as good as him.
Darryl M R
Member
It is dishonest to think that retailers won't be able to explain the differences between the slim and Pro, or that consumers would not be able to comprehend the differences.
X model cost more and does Y thing better. They both play the same games and you can upgrade whenever if you want.
X model cost more and does Y thing better. They both play the same games and you can upgrade whenever if you want.
Dangansona
Member
Exactly!
Heckler456
Banned
Sony dictates what you're supposed to own a PS4 for. If they think that they can capture more people by offering a higher-end product at this point in the generation, then who are you to tell them they're wrong?
Also, this is a luxury product. None of these machines are "needed". Nothing is ever really "needed". There is what you'll buy, and there is what you won't buy. Just because you won't buy it at this juncture, that doesn't speak to whether or not the rest of the market won't either. Hell, it doesn't even mean that you won't buy it in the future.
And regardless, how many more times does it need to be repeated that this won't change anything for the regular PS4 owners. There are mandates in place the assure that fact. It remains to be seen whether those will be kept to, but regardless, there seems to be a concerted effort to keep the regular PS4 owner happy.
So, really, what is it that you're complaining about when you say that it isn't "needed" exactly? Is it because you think that this will sink Sony as a company or something?
Neuromancer
Member
When did this rule begin that console players aren't supposed to care about graphics? Because caring about graphics has been a thing since the beginning of console gaming. I remember comparing Genesis vs Super Nintendo graphics with friends and that was 20+ years ago.
Considering that I'm in retail as well, and I already know how we're positioning the Pro, and it's incredibly easy to discuss this product, and it's already off to a great start in preorders, and it doesn't at all complicate the market... I don't understand how any of you who feel this way, including the people who seem to worry about it complicating your retail jobs. Who is handling your training for selling to your customers?
Have you never sold refreshed iPads, and the like? Up-steps in hardware that still play the exact same format of software, are considered a luxury item, but there's still cheaper options without any real loss.If you want more out of it, you can get more out of it.
Both play VR, both play PS4 games. There's perks for the Pro if you want to make the investment. We've already seen both existing PS4 owners and new customers coming to preorder the system, so the idea that the market is neither is laughable.
Have you never sold refreshed iPads, and the like? Up-steps in hardware that still play the exact same format of software, are considered a luxury item, but there's still cheaper options without any real loss.If you want more out of it, you can get more out of it.
Both play VR, both play PS4 games. There's perks for the Pro if you want to make the investment. We've already seen both existing PS4 owners and new customers coming to preorder the system, so the idea that the market is neither is laughable.
LifEndz
Member
It really is a weird sentiment that explaining the advantages of the pro over a ps4 or xboxS is too complicated for the general consumer to understand and for a retail employee to explain. Several of the gaming podcasts I've listened have acted out a hypothetical consumer- employee interaction in which both are flummoxed as to what the pro is, and each time I'm thinking it's really not that complicated, but then again it's been years since I've purchased something that costs hundreds of dollars and needed the assistance of a retail employee to help me make a decision.
I don't like the Pro because I think that iterative consoles is the wrong direction for console gaming to go in. I don't want Sony and Microsoft asking me to buy a new box every 3 years. Consumers will become fatigued with the amount of console releases. I used to really like Call of Duty but I stopped caring about it altogether because there is a new one out every year. Sony is making a good argument for customers to go PC as primary platform if they plan to release consoles more frequently.
Also, each new console release will become a harder sell as graphics get better. It'll be harder to recognize those minor graphical improvements and most people won't see the need to upgrade. This is already happening somewhat with Sony having difficulty showing improvements to 1080p gaming. Most people with HDtvs don't see the need to upgrade unless they have a 4K tv. When Sony comes out with the PS5, we won't see a generational leap in graphics quality which will be a shame.
Apple recently noted that cell phone sales are declining probably because most people are deciding to hold onto their old phones, so I think the same thing will happen with Sony and Microsoft if they keep going in that direction.
What I want is for the traditional generation lifecycle to stay as is. Sony and Microsoft should stand behind the original consoles they released and continue to improve existing services and policies on those platforms. The resources Sony spent on developing the Pro could've been used to create a new 1st party exclusive game or add additional benefits to a PS Plus subscription. That makes existing PS4 players happy and will draw in new customers as well.
Heckler456
Banned
Gonna stop you there. This isn't what this is. Sony isn't going iterative. They're just offering a mid-gen upgrade due to a recent shit in hardware. There will still be a next generation console.
Also, seeing as how this particular pro is bound by the ankle, so to speak, to the PS4; and that the PS5 will not be, that still means that you will have the same noticeable jump in graphical fidelity as you would have normally. Maybe a little less, but not much less as you think.
Current PCs with dual GTX 1080s in SLI can't always do native 4K at a good frame rate, and no way the next set of consoles has anything remotely close to that. Native 4k will absolutely, positively, 100% not happen next gen. There are a lot of resolutions between 1080p and 4K, and games will generally be somewhere in there. Hell, I'm betting we just see 1080p become the standard.
H.Cornerstone
Member
even in 3 years?
In three years games will only get better looking, and a setup equivalent to dual 1080s still won't be cheap enough to sell as a $399 console. So no, not even in three years.
I'm sure some games will hit 4K, but native? Not a chance in hell. We can't even hit native 1080p now.