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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast

specdot

Member
The Ps4PRO has the potential to either succeed or bomb. Time will tell if Sony's investment will bear fruit.
Lol what? It's like the base PS4 doesn't exist anymore to some of you. The PS4 will continue to be sold. The Pro is an upgraded version available to anyone who is interested. Oh, and they'll both play PS4 games, both physical AND digital. A lot of y'all are focusing on sales, yet forget that both consoles will still be playing the same discs. As long as games still sell, I don't think Sony is too worried on which console they sell. Just like apple. They will market their newest stuff, but their older, less expensive stuff will still sell. They just want you in the ecosystem.
 

jdmonmou

Member
Next generation we'll see native 4K games as standard and hopefully room scale VR in the console space. Don't worry there will be a generational leap!
To this point, I think it would have been better for Sony to wait until true native 4K games were affordable for consoles to run. The PS4 Pro is not coming out at the right time considering the more powerful Scorpio is coming out next year and not many people have HDR compatible 4K TVs right now. I just don't get why Sony saw the need to rush a the Pro to market when it can't do true 4K gaming.
 
And this is why I think that releasing a PS4 pro at this point in time is a great idea. 4K native for the same amount of games as we've got native 1080 today probably won't happen either until a potential PS5 pro, if not the PS6. As such, the upscaling tech they're introducing with this one is a great long-term investment on their part.

And, in fact, introducing it at a time where the competition doesn't have anything of the sort, along with the fact that only a very small minority is currently playing at those kinds of resolutions (on PC), makes it so that the audience will be far more accepting/impressed by the half-step that this technology in all actuality provides.
 
Current PCs with dual GTX 1080s in SLI can't always do native 4K at a good frame rate, and no way the next set of consoles has anything remotely close to that. Native 4k will absolutely, positively, 100% not happen next gen. There are a lot of resolutions between 1080p and 4K, and games will generally be somewhere in there. Hell, I'm betting we just see 1080p become the standard.

Not true.

A single 1080 can do 4k 60fps in pretty much all recent AAA games at medium/high settings. People need to stop judging performance purely at maxed settings.
 

jdmonmou

Member
Lol what? It's like the base PS4 doesn't exist anymore to some of you. The PS4 will continue to be sold. The Pro is an upgraded version available to anyone who is interested. Oh, and they'll both play PS4 games, both physical AND digital. A lot of y'all are focusing on sales, yet forget that both consoles will still be playing the same discs. As long as games still sell, I don't think Sony is too worried on which console they sell. Just like apple. They will market their newest stuff, but their older, less expensive stuff will still sell. They just want you in the ecosystem.
Sony does have a sales target in mind for the Pro. It's not like Sony can only sell a few hundred Pros and several million PS4 Slims and they will be happy with that scenario. The fact that they didn't go all out and make the Pro a true 4K console like the Scorpio will be and put a 4K Blu-ray player in it proves that they want to keep the price low to sell to the masses.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
It's going to be a 400 euro box, native 4K gaming is really expensive. Even in a few years it's going to be expensive and I hope that they invest more money in a good processor, rather than going all in for the GPU like they did in this generation.

With Zen on the market, Sony would have to do something wrong to not use it. But it'll be a scaled down mobile APU version of the chip, so hopefully the power is still decent
 

EmiPrime

Member
To this point, I think it would have been better for Sony to wait until true native 4K games were affordable for consoles to run. The PS4 Pro is not coming out at the right time considering the more powerful Scorpio is coming out next year and not many people have HDR compatible 4K TVs right now. I just don't get why Sony saw the need to rush a the Pro to market when it can't do true 4K gaming.

I expect most people buying a Pro will be hooking it up to a 1080p TV and by all accounts the checkerboard 4K and HDR effects are very impressive for 4K TV owners. I disagree that it was necessary to wait for 4K native.

Not true.

A single 1080 can do 4k 60fps in pretty much all recent AAA games at medium/high settings. People need to stop judging performance purely at maxed settings.

Yeah I don't know what that was about! Even a single GTX 1060 can do a decent job of 30fps 4K gaming. Consoles coming out in 3-4 years time will be able to do native 4K gaming just fine.
 
To this point, I think it would have been better for Sony to wait until true native 4K games were affordable for consoles to run. The PS4 Pro is not coming out at the right time considering the more powerful Scorpio is coming out next year and not many people have HDR compatible 4K TVs right now. I just don't get why Sony saw the need to rush a the Pro to market when it can't do true 4K gaming.
Here's the thing, what you want and don't want isn't always reflective of the larger market.

Also to your other post, Sony isn't asking you to buy a new system every 3 years. This is entirely optional and I'm sure they're just as happy if you keep buying PS4 games for your OG PS4. You're not losing anything.
 
To this point, I think it would have been better for Sony to wait until true native 4K games were affordable for consoles to run. The PS4 Pro is not coming out at the right time considering the more powerful Scorpio is coming out next year and not many people have HDR compatible 4K TVs right now. I just don't get why Sony saw the need to rush a the Pro to market when it can't do true 4K gaming.

Scorpios rumored specs (and i reiterate rumored specs because its not a real console) is only 50% more powerful than the pro, and it will likely be at least 100 dollars more expensive.

The Pro is 300% more powerful than the XBO, and its only 50 dollars more expensive than the 1 TB XBO.
 

Opt1kon_

Member
Considering that I'm in retail as well, and I already know how we're positioning the Pro, and it's incredibly easy to discuss this product, and it's already off to a great start in preorders, and it doesn't at all complicate the market... I don't understand how any of you who feel this way, including the people who seem to worry about it complicating your retail jobs. Who is handling your training for selling to your customers?

Have you never sold refreshed iPads, and the like? Up-steps in hardware that still play the exact same format of software, are considered a luxury item, but there's still cheaper options without any real loss.If you want more out of it, you can get more out of it.

Both play VR, both play PS4 games. There's perks for the Pro if you want to make the investment. We've already seen both existing PS4 owners and new customers coming to preorder the system, so the idea that the market is neither is laughable.

^^ abdiel has spoken and this is so much truth, took the words right out of my mouth
 

SolidSnake3035

Neo Member
When things like 4K and GPU power come up I'll often see people mention that it's not readily available, that not enough people have 4K TVs, that GPUs aren't powerful enough to push them...
I've seen them mentioning this when talking about how the PS4 Pro is unnecessary.

This makes me wonder, do these people not understand how technology works? Do they not realize that for GPUs to become powerful enough to run games in 4K that there needs to be a desire for it? That for 4K displays to proliferate we need GPUs that are powerful enough to push them? Content to display on them?

What Sony is doing by releasing the PS4 Pro is saying "here is a reason for you to get a 4K HDR display and be a part of this new ecosystem of content." This is just one way to get the displays to consumers, which in turn gives companies a reason to release content in 4K, and it increases demand for the computing power to run it.

If everyone said bullshit like "there aren't enough people with 4K displays" and "GPUs aren't powerful enough to push 4K displays" and "there isn't any content to view on 4K displays" then none of the technology would be pushed to accommodate it.

How is anything supposed to progress if everyone is just waiting for someone else to make the initial investment?

If everyone bought a PS4 Pro and a 4K HDR (hopefully OLED) display, there would be all the reasons in the world for chip manufacturers to push their engineers to develop capable hardware. If everyone is consuming 4K content, there's a demand for ISPs to improve their service/infrastructure so people have faster internet, which has more benefits than we could imagine.

It just boggles my mind how many people can be so short-sighted with technology. To say something so ridiculous as "PS4 Pro is unnecessary" as if it won't provide a massive incentive for people to upgrade their displays.
When someone says "well I don't have a 4K TV so this is useless" as if they never before upgraded to a newer TV because they were looking for a better experience...

I don't want to live in a world where technology progresses at a slow crawl because everyone is content with what they currently have, never mind if it's completely stagnant.
Stop complaining when companies try to push new technology. Start questioning why it's not happening more rapidly.

The more advanced and powerful the related hardware is, the more developers are free to craft the experiences they want to give players. When machines are powerful enough to push displays that run an imperceptibly high resolution at an indistinguishable refresh rate, the focus can shift to less obvious but arguably more important things like the underlying systems for physics and AI, and everything that goes into crafting more believable experiences. Things that we probably don't even consider being important now because we're still too constrained.


So the next time you hear about some new technology or product, whether you like it or not, take a few moments to consider how it might improve things down the road... let yourself wonder.
 
Sony has two consoles available, a PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro at affordable price points with a good library of games.

Oh and did I mention they run on the same disc? It will be gangbusters this holiday season since there is no "direct" competitor performance wise.
 
So I was finally able to listen to the Giant Beastcast podcast on the Sony news conference (I know, LTTP) and they seemed to be much more positive about it. Not sure if that was solely because they were there or more because they are generally less critical of things/no more about hardware then normal, but they said the difference (especially HDR) was really noticeable. (And Alex had the same questions about the Scorpio and the Pro.)

Also, I listened to the CAGCast and Cheapy was talking about reading Digital Foundry articles about the PS4 Pro (apparently digital foundry was really impressed). And he has a child. And runs a website. And was able to do research.

And I guess that was my main issue, with the past two podcasts. I listen to all of these other podcasts who seemed to take the time (even 15 minutes) to research the PRO and seems like this podcast didn't.

Let's see how the podcast tomorrow goes.
 

krae_man

Member
The thing that bothers me about remasters now is they moved from an as well as to an instead of.

Remasters used to be made by a port house while the original dev continued working on their new game.

Now the original devs make them. Best case scenario is this change delays when their new game comes out. Worst case, it completely replaces a new game they would have made instead.
 
I hate how Colin dislikes remasters/collections except when it's the game series he really likes.

I have a take on remasters (PS3 to PS4 in particular) that I'm shocked that others haven't really echoed. I have no problem remastering PS3 games to PS4 because PS3 had such a unique architecture. Look at what Naughty Dog went through to get The Last of Us working in PS4. Me being fine with PS3 remasters on PS4 hinges on PS5 having a similar PC-esque architecture. If it does, these remasters could be seen as being made future compatible.
 
I hate how Colin dislikes remasters/collections except when it's the game series he really likes.

I'm the same way. Fuck remasters but give me BioShock, give me Mass Effect, give me GTA V.


The thing that bothers me about remasters now is they moved from an as well as to an instead of.

Remasters used to be made by a port house while the original dev continued working on their new game.

Now the original devs make them. Best case scenario is this change delays when their new game comes out. Worst case, it completely replaces a new game they would have made instead.

Ever heard of Bluepoint games?
 

Mezoly

Member
Haven't listened yet, but I have seen some psvr/taco bell commercials during nfl games. Also there is a daily article on the ps blog about vr. Plus there aren't any stock to sell anyway. I tried psvr for the first this Saturday in Best buy and there was a line to try it.

I'm the same way. Fuck remasters but give me BioShock, give me Mass Effect, give me GTA V.
Don't you see it a little hypocritical to want the games you like and people don't get the games they like?
 

krae_man

Member
I'm the same way. Fuck remasters but give me BioShock, give me Mass Effect, give me GTA V.


Ever heard of Bluepoint games?

Team Ico did the SOTC collection. Square Enix did the Tomb Raider remaster. Naughty Dog did the Last of Us Remaster. Quantic Dream did the Beyond and Heavy Rain remasters...

I could go on.
 
What I want is for the traditional generation lifecycle to stay as is. Sony and Microsoft should stand behind the original consoles they released and continue to improve existing services and policies on those platforms. The resources Sony spent on developing the Pro could've been used to create a new 1st party exclusive game or add additional benefits to a PS Plus subscription. That makes existing PS4 players happy and will draw in new customers as well.

This is where I stand after looking at 4K HDR sets and waiting to upgrade. I want a good 7-8 out of the PS4 before PS5. Also feel like VR is a drain on resources that could be used for traditional 1st party games.
 

sora87

Member
I think not a lot of people are talking about PS VR because it's not looking very compelling, a lot of the games just appear to be tech demos and nothing worthwhile. Not even Resident Evil 7 can get me interested in it.

Now, localise Summer Lesson and we'll talk Sony. /lol ;)

Also Colin, this fall is great for Sony. Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian? So much more exciting than anything else coming out.
 

newjeruse

Member
Really? Thread was on fire about Colin and his comments over the last two episodes.
Yea, I've been out of the loop recently. How personal did it get?

There's a line that shouldn't be crossed. That said, Colin is outspoken and brash like few in the games press. If he wants to position himself as a Skip Bayless-type, and bask in the #ColinWasRight meme, he has to hang in there for the bad.

Am I beating a dead horse?
 
Yea, I've been out of the loop recently. How personal did it get?

There's a line that shouldn't be crossed. That said, Colin is outspoken and brash like few in the games press. If he wants to position himself as a Skip Bayless-type, and bask in the #ColinWasRight meme, he has to hang in there for the bad.

Am I beating a dead horse?

Not that bad? I think the worst of it was people calling him "ignorant" and such, and him and other people taking umbrage with that. Other than that, it was mostly the volume I suppose that got to him.
 

j_rocca42

Member
Let me sit you down and tell you a story.....
Lol you must have missed at least 5/10 pages worth of discussion about colins argument against the ps4 pro

Yep

Yea, I've been out of the loop recently. How personal did it get?

There's a line that shouldn't be crossed. That said, Colin is outspoken and brash like few in the games press. If he wants to position himself as a Skip Bayless-type, and bask in the #ColinWasRight meme, he has to hang in there for the bad.

Am I beating a dead horse?

There's some good reading if you want to get into it. Some great constructive posts and a few shit posts.
 
Yea, I've been out of the loop recently. How personal did it get?

There's a line that shouldn't be crossed. That said, Colin is outspoken and brash like few in the games press. If he wants to position himself as a Skip Bayless-type, and bask in the #ColinWasRight meme, he has to hang in there for the bad.

Am I beating a dead horse?
Basically a lot of people (myself included) disagreed with colins reasoning and criticism of the Pro which resulted in a lot of back and forth. Eventually Colin came here, posted a meme pic and left. People complained and he posted again in the Kf thread about how he doesn't owe us anything etc.

Next week after more discussion he came back asking for people to write up their criticisms about the show (with time stamps) and he would respond. One person did and many put out well thought responses (Minus) time stamps and he came back accusing us of being rude and personal and vowed to never come back.

This wasn't the case, there have been a few negative posts that may have crossed the line but the vast majority were not and were well written and considerate. Of course we then had a bunch of people agreeing with Colin that people crossed the line even though they couldn't show any during the period between Colin asking for responses and him leaving.

Basically a big shitshow that seemed like it would never end.
 
Ugh I can't wait for TLG and FFXV to come out so we can drop this narrative of "man those games are going to suck and everyone will be dissapointed like I know what their expectations are."
 
Let me sit you down and tell you a story.....
Lol you must have missed at least 5/10 pages worth of discussion about colins argument against the ps4 pro

5/10 pages? More like 30. Prior to the PlayStation Meeting, this thread sat at page 78. By the time the discussion of last weeks episode (which resulted in a continuation of the argument) ended, this thread sat at 105 pages (with the last big discussion happening on September 17th). That was nearly 30 posts in two weeks. I said this before, but this thread has never moved as fast as it has these last two weeks
 
Not that bad? I think the worst of it was people calling him "ignorant" and such, and him and other people taking umbrage with that. Other than that, it was mostly the volume I suppose that got to him.

I didn't think it was bad at all... until he told us he wasn't coming back here. Then things got more personal. Up until that point though, it was just people disagreeing with him and many pointed out valid arguments. I think it wasn't so much how personal or vile it got, but how MANY people were joining the dog pile. It would probably be too much for any one person to see hundreds of complaints in such a short period of time.
 

kevin1025

Banned
I think not a lot of people are talking about PS VR because it's not looking very compelling, a lot of the games just appear to be tech demos and nothing worthwhile. Not even Resident Evil 7 can get me interested in it.

Now, localise Summer Lesson and we'll talk Sony. /lol ;)

Also Colin, this fall is great for Sony. Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian? So much more exciting than anything else coming out.

For PSVR, for me, it's that. There's not enough full games for me to be interested in. The tech, RIGS and Resident Evil 7 make me super excited to see where it leads, but the entry price and the tech demo feel for a lot of what's coming is keeping me back. I hope it does really well and people love it, though, so we can see some more interesting stuff come its way.
 

Mezoly

Member
Ugh I can't wait for TLG and FFXV to come out so we can drop this narrative of "man those games are going to suck and everyone will be dissapointed like I know what their expectations are."
I don't know both of these games seems to be big meh and backlash seems to be inevitable.
 
I don't think Sony has any pretensions of this becoming a runaway mainstream succes just yet. There's clearly something to VR, what with the amount of corporations attaching their name to it, and I think the point of this first iteration is to get a footing in the market. They are, after all, a hardware company.

I don't know both of these games seems to be big meh and backlash seems to be inevitable.

You can point to some amount of backlash regarding any game these days. The true litmus test will be how it'll be received with the people who aren't going into either of these game predicting their failure.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
The VR topic was weird?

Dude says he isn't totally sure on VR cause there isn't a chance to try it out in England.

Colin says he's a believer because he's gotten to try it out? Then says maybe it's not for him when the guy hasn't has a chance to try it?

I don't disagree that waiting a few weeks till after it is out to see how it shakes down isn't a bad idea.

I just found it odd that they were like maybe it's not for you when C&G both are PSVR believers cause they got actual hands on unlike this guy?
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
I feel like Colin is missing a fundamental thing here...

New hardware NO LONGER enables new gameplay opportunities. That is a line of thinking rooted in the past during transitions from 2D to 3D and to machines like PlayStation 2 and Xbox. To suggest that a hardware upgrade is only worthwhile in the face of new gameplay is silly as long as we're using two dimensional displays. VR opens the gate, and Sony has embraced that, but there's nothing a PlayStation 5 with dramatically more power could really introduce that would change the way we play games on a television.

Games are limited by budget, staff ability, and time. That's it. Anything you want to achieve can be achieved with the right combination.

If he is disappointed that PS4 Pro brings no additional gameplay opportunities to the table then I suspect he will remain disappointed with all future machines. We've simply passed the point where hardware is the limiting factor.

I ended up writing about this for The Optional: https://the-optional.com/making-the-case-for-the-ps4-pro-that-sony-didnt-e5511b4adf7f#.bknnx0sk1

This is such a great point, Dark. If you're looking for changes in gameplay experiences you have to change the input device—it's the only reason we got new experiences last generation. The days of power, alone, delivering new experiences have BEEN over.

Anyway, this week's show was pretty good I thought. The Colin's mood talk in this thread is a little strange, but Gaf gonna Gaf.
 
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