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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Ahhh ok cool!
I was following your chain of thought until this point.
The lazy devs argument is utter weak suace with the blood, sweat and tears these talented guys pour into projects...Sure there's been noticeable Q4 gaps in Sony's lineup but it's in the service of getting more polished games.
Look at UC4, R&C and Horizon ZD which have all seemingly benefitted from delays (some would argue TO:1886 was just a delayed dud, fair enough).
All we want is great games and making AAA games we love is hard as fuck, so many titles are delayed in this industry anyway, it's not just a Sony thing.
TW3 was delayed for how many months? And that game is the gens masterpiece.
People were fawning for South Park: Fractured But Whole as a great Xmas game-it got delayed too.
Play your backlog or something else in the meantime when your hyped upcoming exclusive is pushed back.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
I think, implicit in their argument, is that they aren't interested in the games Sony's putting out this fall. They MENTION the games you're talking about, so this isn't a "Sony has no games" narrative, its a "wow we're not interested in these titles". Neither am I, for that matter.
Edit: For what its worth, I don't think developers are lazy at all. That's an ugly, ignorant comment and anyone making such a thing is probably unaware of the ridiculous number of hours that go into making these titles. This isn't a problem with the folks down in the trenches. It's an issue with the ones up at the top setting unrealistic goals. A delay of two weeks to a month? Acceptable. Pushing a game from holiday 2016 (usually October/November) into February 2017? That's telling me you knew 2016 would be a stretch in the first place but just decided to "go for it".
I prefer Sony's way of bringing out the heavy hitters thoroughout the year rather than just the holiday tbh. Plenty of multiplat games coming out then already
darthsontin
Member
One of the best examples is his approach the digital games. Colin said that anyone who disagrees that digital only is the future is wrong, no questions asked. When people wrote in describing their bandwidth, storage, and internet access issues, he said they were wrong because they didn't realize that all of those problems will magically disappear one day. He is entitled to his opinion on matters like phyiscal vs. digital, but he shouldn't just discount everyone else's experiences and tell them they're wrong. It's a recurring trend I've noticed with him.
It's sort of a straw breaks the camel's back situation when he's not only asserting his opinion as the only valid one, but also basing it on false information like the PS4Pro.
It's the kind of approach you'd expect from AM talk radio.
Is it? Delaying a game for a few months for more polish, or launching a game earlier with bugs and bad performance (see The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Assassins Creed Unity, Halo MCC, Driveclub, etc.). Hm, what's better? I say 'Option 2'.
OléGunner;217597250 said:Ahhh ok cool!
I was following your chain of thought until this point.
The lazy devs argument is utter weak suace with the blood, sweat and tears these talented guys pour into projects...Sure there's been noticeable Q4 gaps in Sony's lineup but it's in the service of getting more polished games.
Look at UC4, R&C and Horizon ZD which have all seemingly benefitted from delays (some would argue TO:1886 was just a delayed dud, fair enough).
All we want is great games and making AAA games we love is hard as fuck, so many titles are delayed in this industry anyway, it's not just a Sony thing.
TW3 was delayed for how many months? And that game is the gens masterpiece.
People were fawning for South Park: Fractured But Whole as a great Xmas game-it got delayed too.
Play your backlog or something else in the meantime when your hyped upcoming exclusive is pushed back.
Sorry my statement came off wrong. By no means are game developers lazy. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean that Sony production seems lazy. They're winning by such a gap that it seems like they don't care if their games get delayed. MS seems to be running a much tighter ship. Gears 4 just went gold and was announced last summer. Maybe Sony just announces games too early.
SpideySenses
Member
That is going to happen though, yes, living in San Francisco and receiving free game codes means they can't always grasp how far behind other parts of the World are with internet speeds and bandwidth but that doesn't discount that we've still heading in that direction.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I'm done with this show for a while. I might come back to it later this year. Pretty much lost respect for Colin after the way he handled himself on here.
I do too, but my point is that for the past 3 years they've missed arguably the most important game release window (Fall) to showcase their tentpole titles. Maybe they don't want to be overshadowed by the popular third parties. I just don't know. Again, they've released killer games during the first six months of the year and then come out with nothing in the other half.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
What did he do?
I must say Colin's insistence on the digital future coming imminently is slightly bizarre.
He's picturing a future that is still a looong ways ahead imo. The way gaming is growing in parts of Europe, Middle east and Africa where internet infrastructure isn't inviting for 50Gb+ downloads of games doesn't mean where getting all digital consoles anytime soon.
I get his thought process and maybe the latter markets mean sweet fa to Sony etc but it's a little to on the nose viewpoint.
I'm the only mainly digital guy in my circle of friends, they get panic attacks for any patch above 5Gb+ lol.
Ahh gotcha man. Even then though, I'd still say lazy is a harsh word to use.
Sony production are looking guilty of mismanagement of their studios that I'll agree with you definitely.
I'm also impressed with how MS seemingly get every title to stick to their release date, the caveat is MS seemingly sticks to a factory line of Gears, Halo and Forza which is easier to get out at regular intervals.
Scalebound is a good case in point of eternal delays.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Not wanting to speak for him, but mainly this episode he played the victim card. For being criticized on the internet. By this forum. Who were just trying to correct them.
And then he tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/778421889710510080
So as he is saying Criticism is important, he left this forum and said he is never coming back. Because he was criticized.
Really bugs me and I'll probably stop as well.
And I don't think Sony internal is lazy, but for some reason they haven't learned their lesson of not announcing release dates. They should really not announce the release date until the game goes gold.
Edit: Fixed link. Tweet deck must have screwed up copy
This is the right answer. 343's reputation has been sullied by the MCC, for example. The distrust spreads to whatever a developer's next release is if the game is released in a buggy enough state. Syndicate's release would have been a different story if it wasn't effected by Unity's reception.
Swass
Member
You are missing several Sony releases in your timeline like Infamous Second Son, Driveclub, Little Big Planet 3. Remasters in: Tearaway Unfolded, God of War 3, Gravity Rush, Last of Us. And since you included 3rd party exclusives for Microsoft you should have also done the same for Sony such as Until Dawn, Disgaea 5, Street Fighter V. Basically the point is, Sony hasn't been nearly as bad as they have been painted to be and the next 6 months are no exception.
Dirtyshubb
Member
His criticism tweet is quite telling really.
Not just because of the hypocrisy with his responses to gaf recently but also because it's trying to change the argument.
It makes it seem like critics are saying 'you need to be positive about everything ' when what is actually happening is 'we dont care if you like it or not, just that your argument is illogical and doesn't make sense'.
Either a clear misunderstanding of the issue at hand or a willful attempt to invalidate his detractors arguments as fanboyish drivel.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
What did the tweet say? It seems to have been deleted.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
That's a pretty warped view of what happened here (assuming that is what he is specifically referencing). I'm still a KF fan, but he has gone down in my estimations.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Yep that is the one.
I don't even know if he is talking about the Pro or if he is talking about Games coming out he doesn't like.
I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy him claiming that people need to be critical when he basically "Took his ball and went home" when this thread started criticizing him.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yep. A truly marvelous phenomenon of a game.
It is defined by the budget. It shouldn't really matter how many consoles they shift. It makes it seem as if it has to be a certain type of game Sony releases for it to count in this discussion. Gears counts because it is a big TPS. GR2 doesn't count because it is a whimsical action adventure game. It doesn't even really matter if the budget skyrocketed for GR2. I think people would still say the same thing because of the type of game it is.
Which goes with what I said in the above post. It isn't about being AAA at all because GR2 and TLG are AAA. It is about releasing a particular sort of game with big production value during the holiday period. A platformer/puzzle game and a action adventure game like GR don't cut it. It has to be something like UC, Gears, Forza, etc... It is rather ridiculous. Especially once you consider Nintendo's software type and how this doesn't seem to apply to them.
Well, they are also announcing release dates for internal reasons as well. It isn't just for retailers and fans. They could give it that holiday date to appease higher ups and/or to meet certain expectations within the company.
Again, the bulk of what they delay hit around the spring time. It isn't as if stuff is just launching all around the year at random points. If they just started with the spring release date at the beginning, it wouldn't even make much difference.
What difference does it make? It is fine that MS generally have lukewarm spring lineups, right? Why doesn't the reverse apply to Sony? They are lazy because they don't release games in the fall/holiday period but the reverse isn't lazy somehow?
The reasoning here is weird to me.
Also, the mention of "tentpole" again tells me people are just looking for something specific and that is weird too.
But they just so happen to almost always hit in the spring time. If development was truly awry, they would be going pass spring, launching in summer and even going toward the next holiday season too.
Yeah, GR2 alone is far, far more appealing to me than MS' lineup but I don't want to make it seem like MS' lineup is poor or anything. It isn't.
It is just awkward seeing these silly rules people make up for what counts and what doesn't count in these discussions. The core question is whether or not Sony has AAA titles for the fall/holiday season. They do. The picking apart after that is just nonsense.
If that is the case, I should be saying MS has nothing interesting this fall and that they have done a poor job with their lineup for the end of this year. That would obviously be ridiculous though. My personal take on their lineup shouldn't be conflated with the more objective outlook. Sony's lineup of The Last Guardian and Gravity Rush 2 is far more appealing to me than MS' lineup of Gears 4, Forza Horizon 3, Recore and Dead Rising 4. That isn't a reason to dissect and disparage what MS is offering though.
I fully agree with your edit.
Darryl M R
Member
I wonder if Sony is seeing similar or increased profit in releasing games in the Spring instead of the Fall. I wonder if Holiday shoppers will focus on 1st party games because the largest discounts they will get is probably 45 for a game released in the Fall of that year. Instead do these Holiday shoppers get third party multiplat games (CoD, Battlefield, Assassin Creed), and Sony gets to release their games in the Spring with a longer date range of the game being full priced and then still benefiting from the Holiday shopper scenario.
It would be interesting to see the hard numbers.
It would be interesting to see the hard numbers.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Yeah to be fair he could be referencing something else but considering his stance with engaging with people online now (who disagree with him) I can't imagine it not being at least connected to the pro discussion.
But you have to remember, everyone here was mean and nasty and a few even called his views ignorant which I'm told is the same as calling someone stupid and not simply stating that he was making arguments without all the information at hand or not taking everything into consideration like I always thought it was...but no, that's a personal attack and we don't deserve to be engaged with anymore.
get2sammyb
Member
A large portion of those Microsoft games have under-performed, though, with many citing the release dates as one of the primary reasons they've failed to capture the attention of the market.
Except they don't run a tight ship at all, look at Fable Legends, Phamtom Dust, Crackdown 3 and Scalebound.
Only one, World of FF isn't a big game.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Yeah it's in the gaming community thread I believe.
Further research says they worked on it with Bluepoint.
okay fine 1/2 point.
I still mentioned several others.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Agreed, but at this point, I think we are beating a dead horse so I probably won't post in this thread anymore. Nothing more to really add.
I find it amusing we talk about no fall exclusives, but then in the same breath ask why no one's talking about PSVR.
To me PSVR and all the associated games for that are the fall exclusives:
Batman VR, Driveclub VR, Farpoint, Rez Infinite, RIGS, Super Hyper Cube, Until Dawn VR, VR Worlds, PlayRoom VR etc. all coming Oct. 13, all PSVR exclusive (at least at launch). That's just off the top of my head, there might be many more.
For folks who have written off VR as not for them, I could imagine why they'd say there's no fall exclusives for them. But the folks who do plan on getting PSVR, doesn't this seem like a pretty stacked fall to you?
To me PSVR and all the associated games for that are the fall exclusives:
Batman VR, Driveclub VR, Farpoint, Rez Infinite, RIGS, Super Hyper Cube, Until Dawn VR, VR Worlds, PlayRoom VR etc. all coming Oct. 13, all PSVR exclusive (at least at launch). That's just off the top of my head, there might be many more.
For folks who have written off VR as not for them, I could imagine why they'd say there's no fall exclusives for them. But the folks who do plan on getting PSVR, doesn't this seem like a pretty stacked fall to you?
stargateheaven
Member
They kept saying how nothing this fall. But i thought colin was a massive FF fan? Maybe he doesn't care about FF15, but what about WORLD OF FF? its out october.
We have JRPGs up the wazoo this year.
Dragon Quest builders, world of FF, FF15.
We have JRPGs up the wazoo this year.
Dragon Quest builders, world of FF, FF15.
And Recore, and Quantum Break, and of course: Halo MCC... I could probably think of a few more but you get the idea. MS don't run no tight ship that's for sure.
cool thanks
Omnistalgic
Member
Just being jaded most likely. If games like FF15, Worlds, Builders, Rigs, Rez etc...are good, they will be singing It's praises. It's best not to hype something up and then be pleasantly surprised.
The only thing I'm hyped for is Horizon.
But I think DQB, FF15, GR2, TLG, Rez, and Rigs will all be good, and potential purchases.
The only thing I'm hyped for is Horizon.
But I think DQB, FF15, GR2, TLG, Rez, and Rigs will all be good, and potential purchases.
It will be difficult to buy a PSVR this holiday season if you didn't pre-order. Also, most of those VR exclusives are just experiences and not full-length games.
SirClinksAlot
Member
Gears 4 kinda kills both of those games. People only care about Gravity Rush because of the Anime creepy factor. TLG will have terrible gameplay just like the previous Team ICO games. But they are Japanese so that boosts them 500% for you weirdos.
Its actually a pretty poor season for both teams. Gears then nothing, really.
8.8/10.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
That's disappointing then. Hopefully he changes his mind even though he's quite hard headed lol.. I'm assuming most of their criticism has been due to PS4 Pro, since they've been off the mark on that in some aspects and didn't even send anyone to the event while continuing to be off the mark.
Anyways the rules of the internet are rather simple, everyone will get blasted. Can't let that bother ya.
The fact you think they're appealing because the fact they're Japanese, tells me you know jackshit why people care about these games in the first place.
I feel like we have entered Crapgamers youtube comment section.
I like Gravity Rush because of the gameplay and Kat herself is an interesting character. I'm not sure what anime creepiness has to do with anything.
RichiRamjag
Member
Please say this was a joke post...
H.Cornerstone
Member
I highly recommend everyone check out this thread and video for a detailed analysis on the pro:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1282235
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1282235
Please tell us your experience & training in project management. You're speaking very authoritatively about the subject, so I'd like to know how you're judging this 'acceptable delay' metric you're writing about here.