You said that Gears of War 4 and Forza Horizon will be better games objectively, yet based that viewpoint on sales, and critical reception, which we don't even know for most of those examples.
Your idea of quality and mine are different.
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You said that Gears of War 4 and Forza Horizon will be better games objectively, yet based that viewpoint on sales, and critical reception, which we don't even know for most of those examples.
Your idea of quality and mine are different.
I'm glad I'm not like a programmed robot who's only task is to see games as AAA or not AAA, high metacritic or average metacritic.
I can't wait to play Gravity Rush 2. I don't give a damn how much it sells, what reviewers think about it or how many A's people think it's development equates to. It's going to be at least a good game, it'll probably end up being a fantastic game like the first one. That's all I need to know. I also know Gears and Forza are largely boring titles imo. It's good to have different opinions outside of the mainstream "you must like these games and dismiss these because they're advertised more heavily".
I can't wait to play Gravity Rush 2. I don't give a damn how much it sells, what reviewers think about it or how many A's people think it's development equates to. It's going to be at least a good game, it'll probably end up being a fantastic game like the first one. That's all I need to know. I also know Gears and Forza are largely boring titles imo. It's good to have different opinions outside of the mainstream "you must like these games and dismiss these because they're advertised more heavily".
H.Cornerstone
Member
Yeah he deleted it, here is the permalink:
https://mobile.twitter.com/notaxation/status/778421889710510080
El-Pistolero
Member
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Inuhanyou said:
Quality wise, I don't think that it will be there for TLG to be perfectly honest but I do think GR 2 will be a very good game and it looks great but neither will be at or near the same level of quality that FH3 currently is or what GOW4 will most likely be.
Dangansona
Member
Preach.
Armchair management analysis at its finest.
Please can you provide some evidence by way of reduced software or hardware sales to draw this 'big picture' together?
It's not deleted that poster just fucked up copying the URL. Look at it, it has ... In it.
Ahhh my bad
Heckler456
Banned
Bahaha. Ridiculous.
EdReedFan20
Member
If people didn't see this in the Kinda Funny thread, Colin was a guest Jared Petty's podcast, Pockets Full of Soup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3I0WcSFptg
It's a very nice episode. It actually goes well together with this segment of the most recent episode of The GameOverGreggy Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G_LQfMU8Zc
It's a very nice episode. It actually goes well together with this segment of the most recent episode of The GameOverGreggy Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G_LQfMU8Zc
BuggeryBugz
Member
I don't want to beat a dead horse here but he is talking about criticism about games, not personal criticism.
He is in a role where he can be critical about games in a public forum. People will get mad at him because they don't agree with some of his opinions and thats fine. And people will also call him ignorant and whatever else they want in comments sections and on twitter and I'm sure he is used to it. What he doesn't have to take, is people calling him ignorant and such on here. So him not wanting to come back on neogaf because he felt he wasn't getting treated fairly is up to him.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Here we are again with only Fall games matter crap again. And continue reason discard games like The Last Guardian and Gravity Rush 2 because they are not "AAA" enough. Why is that Nintendo never get knocked with similar criticisms? When the PS4 is the best selling console again this Fall will this narrative finally die...probably not.
So what your saying is, because he supposedly fancies himself more important than his fanbase, he can criticize whoever he wants, but doesn't have to take any criticism himself.
Is that what your saying?
Personally I like that Colin and Greg have been pretty critical lately. I love a lot of what PlayStation does, but it's good to stay grounded and see some concerns brought to light. Like any other company, PlayStation has its ups and down. Gotta recognize when we're moving from one end to the other. Things haven't been perfect lately.
Go Dawgs.
Go Dawgs.
BuggeryBugz
Member
Haha!
Keep your pants on, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
If you read my post, I said that anyone can criticise him whenever they want, he is in the media and I'm sure is well aware that he will get criticised. But he is critiscising games not people in his shows, so in regards to that tweet, he is right. When he comes on here and then gets criticised personally, he doesn't have to keep posting and reading this thread. That's up to him.
Slangblade
Member
Exactly! Colin and Greg of all people should know this by now and stop pushing this stupid narrative. Very few exclusive that are release in the fall will sell consoles. And if we are really talking about who has the most exclusive this fall it's still Sony with PSVR. I like listening to these guys but this is getting really annoying.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I fixed it. Must have been a tweet deck issue.
El-Pistolero
Member
Him being ignorant in this case is not an insult; it is a simple, observable fact. Now, there are two ways you can handle valid criticism of your unfounded and poorly argued points: You can either listen and ingest the comments and, if you have the ability to do so, provide other elements that you could have glossed over -or omitted- to strengthen your position, make it clearer...or you can cover your ears and complain about the villainous haters who have no business pointing out the fallacies and inaccuracies that you have been feeding your flock. Colin clearly went the second route, and anybody suggesting otherwise or exaggerating the personal attacks that were thrown at him is, in my humble opinion, a fanboy...
H.Cornerstone
Member
Except he does criticize people all the time. He criticizes Square all the time for how they are handling FFXV and FF VII remake. And Sony for TLG and Pro. And Capcom. And Konami.
And this isn't personal criticism. It's professional criticism of his opinions on the show. His product.
If we are criticizing products, whether it's shows or games, I don't see a difference.
He can criticize gaming all he wants, but like gaming he is a forn of entertainment and is in turn equally fair game to criticism. I found his tweet ironic.
Nobody cares that Colin is being critical in of itself. What people are complaining about is the fact that many of his arguments against the industry recently don't make any sense and are not based in any reasonable viewpoint.
I don't want to hear him cry about how more powerful consoles are destroying the industry because games haven't gotten better over the past 20 years for 30 minutes, yet hold up the Scorpio as a holy grail as if its not the exact same thing he was supposedly complaining about 2 minutes earlier.
No one should have to be shamed for seeing the hypocrisy in that and calling it out.
BuggeryBugz
Member
If you're insinuating that I'm a fanboy, then you're clearly mistaken. I haven't exaggerated anything. He felt he was being unfairly treated an thats up to him to decide. I have no idea if Colin has read this thread and realised his inaccuracies and I also think that would be a good thing for him to do.
They are companies.
I agree he is fair game to criticism. But he doesn't have partake in threads that are criticising him.
RichiRamjag
Member
He was completely wrong about a topic. People told him that he was. I don't see your point here. Of course he doesn't have to keep posting here, but he gave off the impression that he wanted a discussion, then threw a fit and left when people responded in kind. Folks now have an opinion about it. He's got the right to stay away and everyone has the right to think the way he handled it was terrible.
You're writing a bunch of fluff just to tell us that he has the right to do what he likes when no one really thinks otherwise.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Companies. Run by people.
Just like Kinda Funny is a company. Run by people. And one of those people is Colin.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I don't know what the issue is. Colin has every right to express his lack of enthusiasm with the current state of gaming. I feel much the same way most days. PS4 pro is a lackluster stopgap that will do nothing to improve the landscape of gaming. I don't think we are the only ones growing more and more weary with contemporary offerings in this hobby.
Sure, but this is a dangerous stance to take when you are a form of entertainment. Don't bite the hand that feeds you is the saying I believe. In other words a patreon isnt much without patrons.
No one is mad at him for not likeing the pro. He (and others at KF) have said completely inaccurate things about it multiple times. All the info is on the internet there is no excuse.
Why do people still care about fall games. I can understand the frustration if the entire year was dry but it was not this year. And we are getting GR2 and TLG this year (hopefully). You can't expect every game to appeal to you get over it.
LifEndz
Member
Is it really criticism of him if people point out things he stated that were inaccurate or perhaps were the product of a misinterpretation? And practically everyone that posted a response went to great lengths to start and finish their post by telling him how much they enjoyed him on the show and how much they were looking forward to the next show. There are probably plenty of gaming podcasts that probably wish they had such a vibrant thread on Gaf filled with passionate fans wanting to discuss what was said on the podcast. But now he's acting like he was subjected to a slew of vile personal attacks and is so offended that he has to leave here forever? C'mon now.
BuggeryBugz
Member
That is not the same and you know it. If he had said person X at Sony is an ignorant person who doesn't know what he is talking about then ok.
You just summed up my point.
my post was in regards to his tweet and how he is criticising games not people. You have seemed to completely gloss over that.
H.Cornerstone
Member
If you don't see the irony in a day after saying he would never come back to NEOgaf because of the criticism in this thread saying criticism is important, I don't know what to tell you.
And I don't. These games are made by people who put their entire lives into it.
I don't see why he should get a free pass to criticize these products but we can't criticize his.
BuggeryBugz
Member
It's not ironic if you understand the tweet in regards to constructive criticism of games.
Anyway, I'm no Colin Moriarty apologist and I'm sure hes moved on, as should we.
Heckler456
Banned
Surely you can see how criticism in an of itself is absolutely worthless if it isn't argued with, or at least held up to some sort of standard? The fact that some of his criticism isn't constructive, thanks to its uninformed nature, is exactly what was being argued here.
And you know, there is definitely a schism between giving constructive criticism, and what usually happens with this type of youtube criticism: Trying to find flaws in every single little thing.
Also, no, he isn't obligated to interact with everyone on the internet, but on the other hand, he did come in here himself seemingly disingenuously asking for exactly what he's now saying he won't stand for.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
It's not that "only Fall games matter", it's that for three straight years, the competition has had a few top tier exclusives and yet, Sony can't release at least one?
I prefer Sony and Microsoft to spread out their exclusives throughout the year but to not get at least one AAA exclusive from Sony for three straight years is disappointing.
Horizon: Zero Dawn was my most anticipated and most wanted game of 2016. It was also the game that I was looking at as my possible game of the year but then, it got delayed. Asking for one AAA exclusive from a first party studio isn't asking a lot at all.
As for TLG and GR 2, TLG isn't going to live up to the hype and be right behind No Man's Sky in this regard. It will be the better game but it's going to be such a huge disappointment for everyone who's been waiting to play it for the last decade or so.
GR 2 looks amazing and it will easily be the better game between the two but at the same time, im not interested in either and even if I was, I don't see either as being an AAA game, AA probably but not AAA.
I wanted an AAA exclusive game this Fall for my PS4 and yet, im disappointed and letdown for the third straight year and I have no doubt in my mind that not only was Horizon delayed due to PS4 Pro but im also sure that it will be delayed again. Just don't see it coming out in February.
As for Nintendo, they stopped being relevant to the majority of gamers a very long time ago and because of that, no one complains because well, no one cares. Sony wise, people actually care and again, I don't think that it's asking a lot for them to release one AAA exclusive title in the Fall/Holiday season.
Considering that Sony is asking us to purchase PSVR, Pro, Slim, etc., then yeah, I think asking for one exclusive AAA game that a lot of people were looking forward to playing this Fall is completely valid.
On an end note, while Microsoft is also bad at this, Sony is worse. Stop announcing games so damn early!!! It's annoying, aggravating, frustrating and quite honestly, very disappointing especially when the game you want the most is delayed and more than likely because of a console that probably shouldn't even exist.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
This. Picking up FH3UE tomorrow and would have been buying GR 2 at launch but the Remastered version made me light headed as fuck when flying around which is a shame because I bought it due to seeing GR 2 and wanting to buy that as well. Oh well.
Heckler456
Banned
Gonna stop you right there. Sony doesn't need to incentivize people to buy their consoles during that period of time. That's why they're able to delay games as easily as they are. Third party does the job for them, and the competition is barely even competition to begin with.
There isn't some mandate that they SHOULD release games during the Fall, or that they SHOULD release their biggest games in the Fall. That just doesn't exist. Those practices are born from a certain need, and when that need either doesn't exist anymore, or is met by some other criteria, then why should they still be adhere to that practice? Just because some people just can't wrap their head around situations changing?
At any rate, this seems like a "you" problem. Stop being emotionally attached to release dates of video games, what are you doing.
Exactly. I can't think of a single game that would have been more enjoyable if it had been released in Oct-Dec rather than February or May.
People need to understand that we're not only criticizing Colin for basing his opinions on wrong or faulty information/assumptions, but because he came in here with the outward projection that he wanted a debate, and when people tried to debate him, he left and threw a fit.
Yes there were 1 or 2 people who went insane, but most of the posts replying to him were well constructed and were all pointing out the issues had with his viewpoint, as opposed to attacking his character in general.
Yes there were 1 or 2 people who went insane, but most of the posts replying to him were well constructed and were all pointing out the issues had with his viewpoint, as opposed to attacking his character in general.
SpideySenses
Member
It's not organically changing though, it's happening through a necessity of titles not hitting their release. The Order, Uncharted 4, Horizon, all pencilled in for fall releases, it isn't the end of the world that they were delayed but best case scenario they would have hit in the original timeframe and sold even more copies. If there wasn't value in releasing first party titles in the fall, then why are all the big delays happening from titles were expected in Q3/Q4?
AnthonypUK
Member
Your assuming this why?
Releasing in the holidays didn't help Tomb Raider, Sunset Overdrive. when No Mans Sky week one sales(PAL thread) beat both of them combined, releasing in August.
this mentality that Sony NEED games in the months where there are the most 3rd party releases boggles the mind.
I'm sure Sony would like to have one there, but it seems they are pretty happy to pencil game in, and then if it isn't hitting its internal marks for stableness, content, quality etc, they're happy to go without as COD etc will do the legwork
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
You could make the argument that that the reason they are not hitting release is because they feel they don't have to hit these release dates anymore, which would be a shift in the way these developers/publishers are thinking.
Also I'm not convinced that any of the games you mentioned would have definitely sold more on their original release dates.
SpideySenses
Member
Rightly or wrongly, No Man's Sky was a bigger game at release than the other two on the better selling console, so I'm not sure if that's the best comparison.
I'm not making the argument that Sony need first party games in the fall, I'm just saying it's preferable and again, I'm getting that from Sony because the big games always start from that period and then are delayed away from it. If at E3 next year, they announce TLoU2 with a release of Spring 2018, at that point we can say that they've changed mentally but I just find it disingenuous to say they already have based on what we know.
I'm not making that argument, I'm not saying they have or need to hit fall, just that by all indicators it would be preferable.
Also, if that's the case, why have we ended up with a situation like with TLG and GR2 where they are being released days apart? I understand the black eye with TLG and not wanting to move it further but that's a really bad release date for GR2, a game I very much want to succeed. If releasing before the holidays doesn't matter, then that's the perfect title to push back and yet they haven't.
I'm not making the argument that Sony need first party games in the fall, I'm just saying it's preferable and again, I'm getting that from Sony because the big games always start from that period and then are delayed away from it. If at E3 next year, they announce TLoU2 with a release of Spring 2018, at that point we can say that they've changed mentally but I just find it disingenuous to say they already have based on what we know.
I'm not making that argument, I'm not saying they have or need to hit fall, just that by all indicators it would be preferable.
Also, if that's the case, why have we ended up with a situation like with TLG and GR2 where they are being released days apart? I understand the black eye with TLG and not wanting to move it further but that's a really bad release date for GR2, a game I very much want to succeed. If releasing before the holidays doesn't matter, then that's the perfect title to push back and yet they haven't.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I don't think it is preferable TBH. Why if your Sony, go out and try to sell a Horizon, Uncharted or God of War during the holidays and compete with the likes of TitanFall, BattleField, Call of Duty, Madden, and NBA 2k? When if you wait until March/April/May
(Like they've done with God of War/Infamous in the past), you pretty much have the entire month to yourself?
Gamers have enough to play in the Fall so it's probably better for everyone if you release the games more spread out. As someone pointed out, if MSFT had waited to release Rise of the Tomb Raider until the winter or spring (instead of the same month of Fallout 4) it probably would have done better for everyone.
The only game that was probably a mistake not to release this fall is Gran Turismo, but that is their hallmark franchise.
AmuroChan
Member
Not games related, but he's openly criticized Hilary Clinton and called her a piece of shit and carpetbagger multiple times on air.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Even though this is a good example, we should probably keep politics out of it lest we derail the thread.
Bolivar687
Banned
Because competition doesn't offset that Fall is when the majority of the audience spend the majority of their disposable income. When EA made the decision to shift Battlefield to the Fall and compete directly with Call of Duty, it didn't suffer for it, it became the best selling game in the series, catapulting the franchise to the next level of juggernaut status. This isn't some forward-thinking strategy on Sony's part to move away from the Holiday bloodbath or to fill out the rest of the calendar with releases to keep fans engaged. We know they have been trying to release their biggest games in the Fall, only to fail year after year.
I'm not concerned about their bottom line but from the community perspective, Fall is still the time to release your marquee titles. It has the highest concentration of holidays, people have time off, the weather cools down, family comes over, and new people who just got a new console are fresh into ecosystem and looking for something great to play. It's pushed me a lot more towards PC, especially with Battlefield being best over there and Civilization VI being more exciting than anything coming to consoles.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Trying to establish new IP in the holiday season is a bad idea generally.
If you have an established -ideally annualized- franchise its not such a big deal because you know you have a built-in market already and you can hope word-of-mouth builds on that at a time of year where there's plenty of disposable cash about.
That way it works in your favour.
On the other hand if you have an unproven or niche title, you need to really work to get your messaging right and to push hard for it to stand out against the many tried and tested successes competing for attention. You are really creating a rock for your own back; its not smart.
In that respect, Gran Turismo Sport missing the window and something like The Order are two very different circumstances