Nope, when he talks about exclusives, he still mentions games like Until Dawn & Forza, both are niche games & have absolutely no commercial power.
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
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Nope, when he talks about exclusives, he still mentions games like Until Dawn & Forza, both are niche games & have absolutely no commercial power.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I mean, you do realize that the space program has led to discoveries that have impacted our daily lives personally and professionally a lot right? The knowledge gained through space exploration and the inventions that aid in space exploration isn't some mystical intangible. Plus we waste a ton of money on things much less important already. The degree to which space exploration has been placed on the back burner in society is incredibly sad.
GreyOcelot
Member
I really feel sorry for the incumbent Beyond crew. I actually really like Max and Brian as personalities, but Marty genuinely suggesting that Super Hexagon was a good recent "Hex-based" game when they were talking about strategy games made me do a literal forehead slap. It makes it hard to listen to. Jared is great, but I'm afraid he's going to get burnt out if there's no-one who can go toe to toe with him. Tightening up the format would do wonders I think.
Anyway, on topic I listened to the first PS I Love You episode, and it's great. I do think it could do with a third chair of some sort, even if it's only occasionally present/rotating
not to derail the thread, but the biggest problem with beyond is the combo of max and brian. and i don't mean that in a malicious way. they just have too similar a sense of humor. it kills the flow of the show when one or the other is chiming in with jokes every 30 seconds. the greatness of colin and greg is how completely different they are. greg is wild and out of control, colin is calm and stoic. it works perfectly. some kind of combination like brian, jared, and goldfarb would be great for a show like beyond. the format is definitely not the problem
Acquiescence
Member
I don't dislike Tim, I just find him to be incredibly bland. He's like a straight man in a room full of funny people and eccentrics. He's never going to offend you, but he makes zero impression at the same time.
And the hate that the new Beyond podcast is receiving here has made for some pretty awkward reading! I gave the reboot a chance and watched the first three episodes with the new team, but I soon moved on. IGN hasn't got a single PlayStation-centric guy to justify its existence, unless Goldfarb counts. But honestly, I don't know what he's doing at IGN these days. He's not even a regular on the podcast is he? He should be.
And the hate that the new Beyond podcast is receiving here has made for some pretty awkward reading! I gave the reboot a chance and watched the first three episodes with the new team, but I soon moved on. IGN hasn't got a single PlayStation-centric guy to justify its existence, unless Goldfarb counts. But honestly, I don't know what he's doing at IGN these days. He's not even a regular on the podcast is he? He should be.
or he should just get his butt over to Kinda Funny, if the guys will have him. let the golden era return
GameWhisperer
Banned
Disgaea is not but the ps4 will...sony has a big thing this holiday it's called a PS4...
Again this argument holds no water for numerous reasons.
It was 329 and 3-4 free games that won MS last holiday in the US only, not Sunset overdrive, Forza, etc... Exclusives don't move near the hardware big third party games do. Halo is MS biggest mover sure, but it wont come close to moving consoles like COD, Battlefront, destiny, assassins creed etc.. will. More hardware is moved the holidays because of xmas shopping, deals, bundles, not exclusives. How many times did Sony have a lot of ps3 exclusives and MS had none and 360 easily outsold it in the US? This holiday game thing is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen in console wars, why is it only a thing this gen?
Why all this concern about mindshare/commercial stance? PS4 has no issue there, especially Worldwide.. It is the leader everywhere and will remain so.
MaxBill1908
Neo Member
I like Tim and I like the other kinda funny guys. They're all making great stuff. I can't understand the people shit talking about others that create. If you don't like their content -> don't consume it! But why do you need to hate on someone publicly if you barley know that person from a podcast?
EdReedFan20
Member
Two words: Internet anonymity. Because you can hide behind a keyboard people feel they are free to be rude, crass, and just sometimes nasty.
A funny example of this is something the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon did (it actually might've been on his old Late Night with Jimmy Fallon Show) a few years ago. The New York Yankees baseball team used to have an excellent second basemen named Robinson Cano. Now, many players get rich by signing with the Yankees, but when free agency came up, Cano jetted for Seattle. A lot of Yankee fans were (ironically) chastising Cano for selling out and leaving the team that drafted him. So, one time when the Mariners were in town to play the Yankees, Jimmy Fallon thought it'd be fun to put a cardboard cutout of Cano and film Yankee fans airing their grievances with Cano. The cutout was booed and sneered at, some called him a sellout and a traitor. Each time, the real Robinson Cano walked out from behind it and nearly everyone changed their tune immediately. It was very funny to see them go from anger to sheepish embarrassment.
To me, internet commenters who use their comments to attack someone are no different. All bark. No bite (for the most part).
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
While I agree that internet warriors are hilariously pathetic, people have constantly given reasons why they don't like the new Beyond compared to how it used to be. It's not just complaining for the sake of complaining. I like Altano and Max and the guys, but they aren't working too well on the podcast, anywhere near as it used to be.
This isn't just attacking someone, it's criticism because it's not as good as before, valid points in many peoples' eyes. As for why talk about it, this is the new podcast of Greg and Colin so yeah no shit there's going to be comparisons.
EdReedFan20
Member
My response wasn't about the new Beyond. It was about the people who are needlessly nasty to Tim.
bananafactory
Banned
Im not saying the PS4 will struggle, I think it's just fine and will do great over the holiday. Was just trying to understand Colin's take
TheCowboyPoet
Member
I feel bad for Tim, people are definitely nasty to him. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticized for his work on the Gamescast. I do find him annoying, not a strong host, and not overly knowledgeable on games. I'm not saying he doesn't know games, but I don't feel he knows games better than the average GAFer. The Game Over Greggy show is a decent enough fit for him. But putting him with Colin and Greg in a video game podcast is like... to put it in hockey terms, putting a 4th liner on your top line. Yeah he fills that spot, but it's really apparent he doesn't know games as well as C&G, and as such he's dragging them down. If he's still improving, that's fine but maybe throwing him into the hosting role is too much for him to start with, especially when they're accepting money for the podcast.
You also need to factor in chemistry. Colin and Greg have great chemistry together, it's probably hard to break into that as a new comer but it's not like C&G have always been exclusive. Ryan was a great fit with them, and so was Goldfarb. At a certain point you have to wonder if it's going to work.
All that said, people need to separate critiquing Tim's work and just being generally rude to him as a person. It's ok not to like Tim on the Gamescast, and we, as consumers, need to be vocal about that, but don't let that bleed into being rude to Tim as a person.
Until dawn and Forza are not games that will make a dent in holiday sales either yet he mention those.
one of my favourite beyond moments, clements was great
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Anyone remember what episode number that was?? I haven't heard that story since that episode first came out.
Can't remember the exact episode, but I pulled together some of their best moments for a little tribute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7htmZK--jF0
Made sure to have that one in there.
EdReedFan20
Member
I know you're talking about the "Holiday Season", but there is one holiday that I think will benefit Until Dawn and that's Halloween. Sony could create an actual advertisement campaign, maybe utilizing footage of people jumping and showing off why it is a good game to be played with a group of people, especially during Halloween.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Going to give this a watch tomorrow, thanks man
Feel the same way, that was the "golden era" for me. He's really charismatic and upbeat so I hope they have him guest on there a couple of times. Plus, he literally works for Playstation now so it would make sense.
EdReedFan20
Member
And so does Chris Roper and Sam Bishop (he used to be a semi-regular, too many appearances to be labeled a guest, but too few to be labeled a regular). The only other person I don't know where they are is Jeff Haynes. Maybe he's in the pit of despair or whatever Greg would jokingly call it.
SavoyPrime
Member
As long as they leave Tim completely out of it, then I'm all in. Would love to see Ryan join them from time to time though.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing so hard. Ryan having that mystic ability would not surprise me in the least.
EdReedFan20
Member
Hopefully they'll do a show at PSX and Ryan will make an appearance like he did at Greg and Colin's final live Beyond at PSX 2014.
On the latest PS Blogcast Ryan said he'd be up for it so who knows, maybe somewhere down the line.
EdReedFan20
Member
Nice!
xabbott
Member
I don't think they talk about it with a concern over the commercial success of the PS4. I think it's brought up more as a curiosity to see how much the Xbox can close the gap. Especially in the US. From listening to all the KF content I believe Colin has already stated he didn't think the exclusives were going to help a lot.
People tend to forget that last holiday, even with a stronger lineup than the PS4 for the holiday push, and the reduced price, Microsoft only got 2 of the 3 months that make up the holiday season. That was with CoD and Assassins Creed.
EdReedFan20
Member
Just imagine if at that Paris Games Week, they announce that all regions will receive price drops. That would be the place to do it, as it is the end of October/beginning of November. It'd give Sony and retailers time to advertise the price drop weeks ahead of Black Friday. Imagine that, coupled with Sony's co-marketing with Call of Duty, Battlefront, Assassin's Creed, and Destiny (am I forgetting anything?). Man that would be some ad campaign, if they showed the price being $349.99 (with Uncharted packed in?) with those games being advertised alongside it.
I'm aware that sometimes Colin is talking about it from a sales point of view, but most of the time he straight up says "the PS4 has a weak holiday lineup", which is disappointing as a Tales fan, especially considering Colin himself always championed the franchise & considers it one his best franchises of all time. & I'm sure Dragon Quest & Disgaea fans would say the exact same thing, if you're a hardcore fan of these franchises or just JRPGs in general, this holiday is one of the best holidays for any console in years.
Keep in mind that Persona 5 was supposed to come out alongside those three JRPGs, so as of two weeks ago, the PS4 lineup was stacked in terms of JRPGs, it's still great, but I wouldn't call it "stacked" anymore.
EdReedFan20
Member
I don't think he's ignoring them. I think he means Holiday Lineup in terms of a mainstream lineup, the kinds of games that get advertised like crazy. The games that are traditionally seen as holiday juggernauts (the kinds of games that out-of-the-loop consumers know by name), such as Call of Duty, Halo, Uncharted (Sony probably really wanted that for Holiday 2015), Battlefield/Battlefront. The games you listed are all probably fantastic games (I'm not a JRPG admittedly), but are probably not well known by the mass public, at least in North America. It's great that Sony supports those games, but I doubt you'll see huge marketing pushes for them. For better or worse, I think the blockbuster type games are what Colin was referring to.
I find the PS4 has a weak Holiday line up narrative strange and it seems to be something that actually holds no weight whatsoever in reality. By that I mean everyday folk who make up the bulk of sales are not seeing it.
X1 has three exclusives Halo, Tomb Raider and Forza. Two of those are big sellers. So yes straight away they have stronger exclusives. But PS4 still has more exclusives for the Holidays not big sellers but they are there and make the PS4 line up much more diverse.
Mind share is very important and mind share for all the big third parties are tied to PS4 marketing outside of FIFA.
The PS4 already has a larger library of titles and that is only going to increase. The media need to stop with weak PS4 holiday line up narrative and maybe start talking in the reality of PS4 has the most diverse line up this holiday and going forward.
PS4 has succeeded in spite of the media, which is nice to see.
Edit: love the new/old show guys so happy to have it back.
X1 has three exclusives Halo, Tomb Raider and Forza. Two of those are big sellers. So yes straight away they have stronger exclusives. But PS4 still has more exclusives for the Holidays not big sellers but they are there and make the PS4 line up much more diverse.
Mind share is very important and mind share for all the big third parties are tied to PS4 marketing outside of FIFA.
The PS4 already has a larger library of titles and that is only going to increase. The media need to stop with weak PS4 holiday line up narrative and maybe start talking in the reality of PS4 has the most diverse line up this holiday and going forward.
PS4 has succeeded in spite of the media, which is nice to see.
Edit: love the new/old show guys so happy to have it back.
EdReedFan20
Member
Not only that, but on Metacritic, it has the most favorably reviewed games of the three systems. It has quantity and quality. I know comparison lists are not well liked on NeoGAF but right now PS4 has 164 games (out of 336 games) that are Universally Acclaimed/Generally Favorable, XB1 has 96 (out of 213 games) games that are Universally Acclaimed/Generally Favorable, and Wii U has 83 games (out of 154 games) that are Universally Acclaimed/Generally Favorable.
I don't want to focus on this exclusives things too much, I'm just surprised by Colin completely forgetting about Tales of Zestria. Which is actually a reasonably popular franchise in the west, & it always charted on NPD in the US & GfK in Europe. Fair enough about Disgaea & a Dragon Quest spinoff being very niche, but the Tales series has a big following in the west.
But what blockbuster type of games that Sony usually have for holidays other than Naughty dog games? I mean what is their 2016 holiday blockbuster game? Horizon is a new ip that will probably be pushed to 2017, The Last Guardian is a niche Japanese game, GOW4 will be spring 2017. Sony never had a blockbuster type of games other than Naughty Dog games and they never rely on big games. People like PlayStation games for their variety vs the Mega Xbox franchises that is Halo and Gears. If you look at the ps3 generation and ignore Naughty Dog games PlayStation best games are the likes of infamous, Heavy Rain, Journey, LBP, etc that don't scream blockbuster.
Didn't really listen to Beyond, but I did enjoy episode 1. Quite enjoy listening to podcasts when diving from place to place.
Added to my podcast list to join - Videogamer UK, Bombcast, Beast Cast & Game Informer Show.
Saying that I don't really have time to listen to them all weekly basis.
Added to my podcast list to join - Videogamer UK, Bombcast, Beast Cast & Game Informer Show.
Saying that I don't really have time to listen to them all weekly basis.
silver & gold silver & gold
Sony had four IPs that sold 5+ million last gen (with a fifth being just short of 5m at 4.5m), MS only had two.
Right. As far as I can remember only Uncharted2/3 and GT5 were the Holiday blockbusters. Tlou and Gow3 were summer/spring. During the PS3 era, not every holiday Sony had a big blockbuster game, meanwhile Microsoft kinda kept those games on rotation for the holidays.
EdReedFan20
Member
Yeah, Sony likes to spread out their games as opposed to Microsoft. Remember that Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg quote in which he says everything up to (and after) the holidays is pre-season. I know the quote was a way to give a positive spin to why PS4 was outselling XB1 month after month, but clearly the holidays do seem really important to them, as that's where they got super aggressive last holiday by cutting the price and bundling in many games (sometimes up to four?). Can they succeed with their holiday-heavy model? I don't know, but I doubt they will catch Sony that way by putting all their eggs in a basket. Since, I'm more of a PlayStation guy, I can't recall: Has Microsoft released any AAA games so far this year (not counting remakes like GeoW:EU or Rare Replay)?
Forza 6
Does succeed mean sell a lot of consoles? Or does it strictly mean sell more consoles than Sony?
EdReedFan20
Member
Poor choice of words on my part, but I suppose the latter. It's all relative. I mean, the GameCube which sold 25 (or so) million units might've been a financial success for Nintendo (the XBOX, also selling around 25 million, apparently was sold at such a crazy loss, so I don't know if Microsoft considered it a success). The PSP (80 million or so) was a success for Sony. They just faced a juggernaut (PS2 and DS). But with Microsoft's current strategy (leaning holiday heavy), I think the gap between PS4 and XB1 could increase. They truly have made great strides to improve the system. They are very nimble (nimbler I think, then Sony was with PS3 early on) and responsive to criticism (Phil Spencer for instance tweeted last week during the minor Live outage, that he agrees apps, such as Netflix should not be tied to Live), but I think they sometimes put too much stock in the holidays. I want them all to succeed so they push each other to get better (hopefully Microsoft's BC announcement got some wheels turning at Sony).
Right. Forgot about Forza, especially with all the MGSV talk. Crazy that it caught up to GT in just 10 years. GT4 released the same year Forza 1 released (2005). Forza has had a main release every two years since (2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015), plus the two Horizon spin-offs (2012, 2014), whereas GT 5 and 6 released 2010 and 2013 (GT PSP released in 2009). At this rate, GT will be (pun intended) lapped. I don't understand why it takes them so long to work on GT, it's not like it's leaps and bounds better than what Forza offers. I do think we won't see GT7 until after PSVR releases (Shuhei Yoshida even said he wants to see that happen, so maybe that was a hint of some sort).
I feel like this generation, more so than any other generation, shows that both consoles are wildly successful, and whoever is "in first" is completely irrelevant. Both PS4 and Xbone are selling ahead than their predecessors at the same point in time, and consistently put up strong numbers. Sheer numbers dictate that one has to sell more than the other each month, but that metric being the sole one for success is becoming tackier by the day.
EdReedFan20
Member
To me, a true success should be if a console is sold for a profit (or, like you said, sold better than it predecessor). For instance, could (business wise) the Vita be considered a success? I don't know how much money they spent on developing the Vita or how much it costs to manufacture one, but I have to imagine it does not sell for a loss (if it ever did) and thus makes money for Sony, little as it may be. Is it traditionally successful? No, not at all. Does Sony care? Probably, but if it costs less to produce one than the its sold for, each one sells makes money, it just doesn't "print money" at all.
Haha I'm not going to lie, I feel like you're just finding ways of skirting around saying "I think the console that sells the most units is the winner". Which, If that's the metric you're using, then fair enough. But this gen is seeing two platforms be wildly successful while not having to stomp on the other's success. And that's good for gamers. Who cares if the console is sold for profit or not, that has nothing to do with anything. The industry was built on the idea that you're okay selling consoles at a loss because you make up for it tenfold with games and accessories.
I know the whole idea of "console wars" and the NPD is way too engrained in people's minds for us to truly stop caring about who sells more each month, but I'm just glad that we seem to be in a time where that matters less than ever.
EdReedFan20
Member
I do agree with that. Despite the original XBOX being sold at such a loss (MS dropped it shortly after 360 released), I consider it a big success for Microsoft. Like you said, they sold lots of games for it, which is all well and good (all three of them sold lots of software). The standout difference for XBOX was XBOX Live. Despite not being the first online system for consoles, it took it to the next level. Couple that with Halo 2, and you're golden. They took that success and created the even more successful XBOX 360, which furthered what they started with XBOX. As to your point on NPDs, people do take too much stock into them. I don't know the last time we've gotten any actual numbers (hardware or software), just the placements. But when the manufacturers flaunt their success (they all have proudly done it in the past) and websites (like IGN, GameSpot, etc.) make them into big news items, they become important talking points (to the chagrin of some). Personally, NPD's are quickly becoming pointless anyways, as things start going digital (which apparently they don't track). For instance, last September XB1 sold the most standalone retail copies of Destiny, but when the exclusive PS4 bundles and digital copies are taken into account, apparently PS4 sold more. So, arguing over sales is pointless. Imagine if PS5 and the next XBOX do go all digital, NPD will not reveal any sales unless they change. That would be "fun".
I feel we are getting too off topic. Let's get back to discussing the podcast. What did everyone think of Singing for Shuhei as a stand-in for Ryan's Wrap-Up?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I think DQ Heroes has a chance to sell reasonable well IMO. I think it can sell 500K worldwide.
EdReedFan20
Member
I think DragonQuest Builders can be big, too. Especially with the Minecraft crowd.