When you say something shitty you deserve to be called out for it. And you can't put the caveat of 'regardless of context' in there, as, already discussed at length in here, context matters.
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When you say something shitty you deserve to be called out for it. And you can't put the caveat of 'regardless of context' in there, as, already discussed at length in here, context matters.
The same people who are pissed off about a coffee cup.
He's a public figure with thousands of twitter followers who said something that was going to instigate conversation and some outrage. Whether it's okay or not, when you have that kind of following you have to expect to be hounded and deal with the public response. Twitter is designed for that kind of interaction.
Right this will hopefully be my last post on the matter since I don't watch KF all that much but I used to really like Beyond.
Imagine you're a young feminist woman trying to get in to the industry (and lord knows we need more) and you look up to Colin and Greg. Then, on international women's day, Colin decides to make a sexist joke which makes you feel uncomfortable. You express your disappointment in that and then the guy turns around shoots down your concerns calling you a "humourless sack of shit". Is that the community or industry we want?
Another example:
Years ago I remember and episode of Beyond were crew went to a young kids house and I thought it was really cool how they got this kid who obviously looks up to them involved, it must have been really special.
Now a couple of years later that kid may still not be really aware of social issues (hell I wasn't until I was like 20) but he still listens to Colin. Suddenly this attitude becomes normal to him, an attitude of anti-feminism and anti-black live matter.
I'm sorry, that's not the sort of person I want to have a vocal place in this industry. It's dissapointing that gaming has collectively cultivated a audience that loves to prop up unempathetic, anti-progessive individuals like Palmer luckey, Jontron, Pewdiepie and increasing Colin.
Imagine you're a young feminist woman trying to get in to the industry (and lord knows we need more) and you look up to Colin and Greg. Then, on international women's day, Colin decides to make a sexist joke which makes you feel uncomfortable. You express your disappointment in that and then the guy turns around shoots down your concerns calling you a "humourless sack of shit". Is that the community or industry we want?
Another example:
Years ago I remember and episode of Beyond were crew went to a young kids house and I thought it was really cool how they got this kid who obviously looks up to them involved, it must have been really special.
Now a couple of years later that kid may still not be really aware of social issues (hell I wasn't until I was like 20) but he still listens to Colin. Suddenly this attitude becomes normal to him, an attitude of anti-feminism and anti-black live matter.
I'm sorry, that's not the sort of person I want to have a vocal place in this industry. It's dissapointing that gaming has collectively cultivated a audience that loves to prop up unempathetic, anti-progessive individuals like Palmer luckey, Jontron, Pewdiepie and increasing Colin.
SolidSnakex
Member
That would be irrelevant if developers start going to Sony saying that they don't want someone like Colin having a voice at an event that's supposed to be inclusive.
MadLaughter
Member
Well this is incorrect. There are definitely lines where it's okay for people to vocally reject a sentiment. For example, if someone uses a racial slur or calls for genocide or whatever.
Obviously this is nowhere near those, but it does prove that a line DOES exist.
Now, that established, the line is different for different people.
For many, that line is around the point where a person with many thousands of followers tries to belittle a moment of the celebration of a marginalized population with a joke that promotes an attitude that indirectly says 'it's not worth having a day celebrating women'. Because if he thought it was worth it, he'd have participated in any way whatsoever.
The followup is a huge dose of icing on the cake. There's NOTHING defensible, nuanced or smart about generalizing ALL of your detractors as 'humorless sacks of shit'. It's arrogant, it's childish, it's sad.
If the the freedom to make funny jokes on twitter is so important to him, how did Colin go all of February without a hilarious tweet about Black History Month? I bet that would have "triggered" an even larger number of "humorless sacks of shit".
FinaruDensetsu
Member
So how do people express their opinion on what someone said or did without it being bullying to you? As far as I see the vast majority of people who responded in criticism to his tweets made their thoughts in a reasonable, polite manner.
Should everyone just not say anything once they've seen that one person has criticized him publicly?
"women are loud and they nag a lot" One of the oldest jokes in the book. I hear worse at work, and we all have a laugh. This is the type of joke normal people laugh at or just ignore when they're talking around the watercooler. It's not trying to "appeal to the gamergate crowd" some niche group of guys in some movement the real world doesn't give a shit about (or know about).
I love how people are saying "no, we're not outraged at the joke, we're outraged at how he responded to the outrage!
But then you still have posts like this, going on about how insulting the joke was.
crustchump
Member
my favorite part of all this is how many people have to pretend they think a "women are loud" joke is funny in order to keep up the try-hard free speech crusader thing. being a reactionary sounds tough
You can't see how in poor taste it is to use a international women's day hashtag to make such a joke?
SerTapTap
Member
As I posted on twitter last night, if you're going to die on a hill over a joke, at least make it a good joke. I've deleted funnier shit than this.
So, the locker room talk excuse.
At my job, you get taken to HR If after making a sexist comment and getting pushback someone calls the coworker a humorless sack of shit.
I assure you we are normal people.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
MadLaughter
Member
A. Age of an act does not somehow exonerate it. Back in the day people hung other people from trees.
B. This isn't the watercooler. Again, context matters. Thousands of followers, many of whom are probably at an impressionable age. Political climate, where misogyny is on the RISE, not falling. And the day he did it.
Not sure why everyone hates on Colin. Greg is by far the most toxic, disrespectful and arrogant part of Kinda Funny and the cause of me unsubscribing from the channel and cancelling my patreon contributions. I've been following him since his first appearance on Beyond, and Kinda Funny has turned him into someone I cannot stand. He admits it too and acts like its funny to treat people the way he does.
mullet2000
Member
Again, it's context. Me and my goddamn girlfriend herself makes jokes like this to each other. Thing is were both in on the joke, and it's in private. More importantly I'm not co-opting an international women's day hashtag to make my joke. It's inappropriate and shows a lack of empathy to make jokes about women on a day meant to celebrate them.
Like, for real, on a day meant to celebrate women he decided "no, I'm going to make this about me and try to kick up some outrage." It's not cool.
Is...is it safe to talk about this week's episode now?
No...
We're all still stuck on whether or not the joke was offensive or whether Colin's behavior is the problem...
/s but not entirely...
Trigonometrize.
Member
So cute. I love those guys.
Is...is it safe to talk about this week's episode now?
Edit: Okay, nevermind. I'll check back later...
PepperedHam
Member
He's totally getting hounded. Just about every reply to his Liberty flag tweet is some ass kissing nonsense and the two latest KF videos are downvoted to hell and full of comments hailing Colin as royalty and to stand by him as if he's being persecuted by his entire country and has been wrongfully imprisoned.
Colin is being bullied? BULLIED?!
L
M
A
O
The Salt Life
Banned
If you talk about the other parts of it I'll jump in with you
Is...is it safe to talk about this week's episode now?
Edit: Okay, nevermind. I'll check back later...
Then why is his twitter feed full of them? Must be a coincidence.
Seriously.
And Colin loves the outrage. It's what drums up his fans to support him before he (in his mind) drops the mic with something like that liberty flag tweet. It's all according to plan.
Glass Shark
Banned
"Colin's joke wasn't sexist, I tell worse jokes with my co-workers and friends!"
If this is your response, then I have news for you: you're sexist.
If this is your response, then I have news for you: you're sexist.
dugdug
Banned
Exactly. One of the oldest jokes. It's ancient, lazy, and no longer funny. I will bet 1 million dollars that not one single person actually laughed out loud when they read it.
The problem with this joke, and, the mentality behind it is that Colin, and the legions of GG out there who support stupid shit like this, refuse to evolve.
The discourse around games, and games media, has changed. The "good old days" of acting like a dick and getting away with it are gone. The likes of Howard Stern, insult comedy, etc are dwindling in popularity.
People can say things like "no one can take a joke anymore" or talk about the "pussification" of America, but, the fact is that things change, and, you must be willing to adapt or be left behind. Time to grow up.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I wonder what the outrage would look like if Colins Tweet ended with an "Lol"
Ploid 3.0
Member
Just talk about it, you're not helping change the subject acting like this. Just do eet!
What did they talk about?
Just because some women are complacent about misogyny doesn't mean all of us are.
RedAssedApe
Banned
same people who complain about freedom of speech being infringed upon when they receive criticism for shitty viewpoints.
Your job seriously considers "women, am I right?" to be sexist talk?
Be honest, if one of the guys at work said that joke, if one of the guys, during a bit of banter, said "no women eh? At least we can finally get a bit of peace and quiet here now right guys?"
Would you seriously submit a formal complaint? Or even be offended in the first place?
The argument that Colin is a public figure is nonsense. He's some guy who works for a b-tier gaming website. He's not a celebrity, he's a no-one. Nothing he says will change the cultural zeitgeist. If he went into a bar, no-one would recognise him, if he started spouting political opinions, people would say "who gives a damn what you think?" and it wouldn't do a damn thing. His joke would never have changed a thing if people didn't jump on the outrage train.
Glass Shark
Banned
Stupid overreaction from idiots who take personal offense to statements like "Colin's joke is bad and sexist."
Well there are GG people and altright people defending him on twitter rn, Colin has cultivated a "great"(toxic) bunch of followers thanks to his antics and speech.
Are these the "best friends" they always talk about?
Yeah, I agree. I just read through the KF forums and holy shit. Are those really the best friends that they want?
Lol
Aces&Eights
Member
Mmmm, no. Women at my work make the "men think with their little head" joke quite often. It's in jest and we know each other well so no one takes offense. The issue here, for me, is this type of scenario was played out in a public forum, on a day of recognition for a group who is fighting for equality. It's inappropriate in my opinion and tasteless.
Comedians make jokes all the time at the expense of people but it's done in a setting where the audience knows what they are getting.
So, I don't think playing the sexist card is necessary, rather playing the asshole card would be more appropriate.
Absolutely.
In fact, a job candidate did not get an offer recently for making a sexist remark during the offer lunch.
This has *nothing* to do with submitting a formal complaint or being offended. This is what people FUNDAMENTALLY miss, over and over and over again in these arguments. You want to paint us as outraged, seething people. We just look at it and go "huh, that's not something I want to be associated with". It's about having a positive and inclusive corporate culture.
RedAssedApe
Banned
locker room talk argument. its fine if you're not offended (its not really...but you're entitled to your beliefs) but don't be surprised if a woman or anyone who isn't ok with that overhears you and files a complaint.
Glass Shark
Banned
Echoing that yes, the quoted remark is sexist. Women have gotten the short end of the stick for literally all of human history, every little thing we can do to promote them instead of beating them up is worth the effort. That includes stopping shit like, "Women, am I right?"
dugdug
Banned
No, and I doubt many would. But, at the same time, I bet no one reported his tweet to Twitter or anything.
I can still think they're dumb and shouldn't say it, regardless.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
So I guess on 9/11 if I go on twitter and post "Hey 3000 less fatcats on this planet they did us a favor amirite lol? #9/11Anniversary"
Or on Martin Luther King day tweet "Hey all lives matter though amirite lol #MLK #BLM"
I shouldn't get any negative criticism right or else I'm getting bullied by those horrible people?
Or on Martin Luther King day tweet "Hey all lives matter though amirite lol #MLK #BLM"
I shouldn't get any negative criticism right or else I'm getting bullied by those horrible people?
that's what I mean. They're in bed with Shu and he'll make sure they appear.
KyleOnTheRun
Member
This, forever. Free speech goes both ways. Everyone has the right to find your views and jokes classless and not worth their time.
I believe in celebrating the solidarity and strengths that make women unique. All the women I've ever looked up to are women who have found their niche and proven to be good at it, rather than whining at what they don't have, they've made a name for themselves with what they do have. I don't give a shit about a joke, most girls I know are strong individuals who can give a jab as much as they can take a jab, because that's what equality means to us.
I don't want to be shielded from jokes like a little baby, because a bunch of other men think they speak for us and our poor fragile sensibilities. A legion of white knights in these situations is much more of an insult than just one guy who makes a joke in poor taste.
Sometimes I laugh at guys, they're funny alien creatures to me, but its always in jest. That doesn't make me sexist and I think its an absolute insult that you'd suggest that I am.
bananafactory
Banned
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I don't get how someone voicing their criticism of something equates to that person not thinking women are strong enough to take a joke or "white knighting".
If we criticize the current administration or racist groups for shit they say or do are we "white knighting" or believe minorities are so weak they can't take it?
RedAssedApe
Banned
feminism was a mistake
no one is shielding you. if that's how you take it that's your problem.
Darryl M R
Member
It's like Cloukyo is being dense by missing the point on purpose. White knighting because I can acknowledge a joke was ignorant and the follow up responses proved that his intentions were terrible to begin with. lol you're silly.
Also I'm asking again, is the next PS ILY next week or is PAX changing the channel's schedule?
Also I'm asking again, is the next PS ILY next week or is PAX changing the channel's schedule?