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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast

D

DKHF

Member
Both Colin and Greg made good arguments for and against PS4.5 in this episode. I agree with Greg slightly more but Colin also made a lot of great points. I appreciated Colin reading those Rime rumors from the gaf thread.

Also found it funny that at the end Greg says they finally got around the issue of Sony announcing big news right after they record PSILY by reading that blog post, then hours later there is the huge (unfortunate) news of Evolution being shut down.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Listening to Colin and Shu talk about Horizon managed to make me even more excited as if that were even possible. Shu saying it's his most anticipated PS4 game shows that Sony has a TON of faith in it similar to their attitude with Bloodborne.

Slightly unrelated, Colin sat with reps from Media Molecule for a Dreams Lets Play on their YouTube account and it was simply remarkable. They may not have removed all of his skepticism, but he seems to finally get it now. My opinion? Game looks absolutely incredible.
 
W

Wagram

Member
Zukkoyaki said:
Listening to Colin and Shu talk about Horizon managed to make me even more excited as if that were even possible. Shu saying it's his most anticipated PS4 game shows that Sony has a TON of faith in it similar to their attitude with Bloodborne.

Slightly unrelated, Colin sat with reps from Media Molecule for a Dreams Lets Play on their YouTube account and it was simply remarkable. They may not have removed all of his skepticism, but he seems to finally get it now. My opinion? Game looks absolutely incredible.
Click to expand...

I'm still really skeptical. I hope they don't push it out the door with shaky stability. Horizon needs to be be stable 30fps with no exception.
 
N

names2hard4you

Member
Great episode as usual. Good points raised about the PS4.5. I am seriously hoping it is just that, a rumour. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, upgrading the system. Allocate the sources towards the next model to come down the road.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
names2hard4you said:
Great episode as usual. Good points raised about the PS4.5. I am seriously hoping it is just that, a rumour. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, upgrading the system. Allocate the sources towards the next model to come down the road.
Click to expand...
I'm with you there. I feel like Colin's take where they're just looking into the idea rather than actually running with it is most likely to be correct... I hope.
 
G

GalacticMouse

Member
DKHF said:
Both Colin and Greg made good arguments for and against PS4.5 in this episode.
Click to expand...

I liked that they sort of took both sides of it and weighed the pros and cons. What I'm surprised about is that no one yet has taken the most obvious (to me) position. I think that any updated console will feature a 4K Blu-Ray player with just enough of a GPU/CPU boost to scale 1080p titles to 4K and possibly provide the additional horsepower for a better anti-aliasing solution to help with the upscaling. It could also provide the tech necessary to bring Sony's 4K video streams into the SEN Store for rentals.

Sony, as a whole, has a large investment into 4K (TVs, new Blu-Ray discs, cameras, etc) and buffing up one of their most popular consumer devices to be more directly compatible with those other products serves as a boon for 4K as a whole and it positions Sony better in the 4K market. In addition to that, PlayStation is in too good of a position right now to destroy consumer goodwill by forcing incremental updates on people in the same vein as the new 3DS did with hardware-exclusive titles.

A PS4 focused on 4K output/scaling (rather than better native game rendering) can meet both of those points in the middle by being the PS4 for 4K TV owners without really giving any gaming advantage. Hell, developers could even be held to the same dev-kits with all the additional horsepower being used by Sony in post-processing.

Just my two cents on the matter. Really enjoyed this week's podcast!
 
A

aadiboy

Member
Don't they usually record on Mondays? How come they didn't know about the full PSVR bundle being released with the camera and move controllers?
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
They have a tendency to gloss over stuff that doesn't appeal to them or doesn't apply to them. MLB: The Show and God of War are good examples. They likely didn't even think about the bundle because they have everything aside from the PSVR core unit.

I also noticed they didn't talk about London's new game PSVR Worlds (small game collection).
 
G

GalacticMouse

Member
Zukkoyaki said:
They have a tendency to gloss over stuff that doesn't appeal to them or doesn't apply to them. MLB: The Show and God of War are good examples. They likely didn't even think about the bundle because they have everything aside from the PSVR core unit.

I also noticed they didn't talk about London's new game PSVR Worlds (small game collection).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how "new" that is to them. I know for sure that London Heist, Into the Deep, and Luge have all be playable for them at events. Danger Ball and Scavenger's Odyssey are new to me, but they may have seen them before also. It's certainly news that they're being bundled together onto a disc, but it's not the biggest news when the most of the software has been around for a while now.
 
M

Mezoly

Member
Couldn't agree more with Colin regarding ps4.5. As a software engineer(not a game dev) here is the issues I think ps4.5 will create:

1. More bugs as there are two configuration to fix bugs for.
2. More performance issues as devs has two configuration to optimize for.
3. The lowest common denominator will still wins, holding ps4.5 back anyway.
4. The 60% advantage the consoles has vs the same pc specs will be lower.

I think 5-6 years generation is much better suited for current day technology. If I'm not mistaken there hasn't been many gpu advances in recent years.
 
timmyp53

timmyp53

Member
GifGafIsTheBestGaf said:
Horizon still planned for this year. Bring a bad ass LE revised PS4 please sony
Click to expand...

Should have steelbook for standard 60 dollar game and an 80 dollar dinobot figurine edition. Please don't do main character. We don't need another one of these.
cml4Y2L.jpg
 
V

VanCityGamer

Member
I would be super choked if Horizon doesn't launch this Fall. For those of us not interested in PSVR, this Fall actually looks rough in terms of PS4 game releases. The Mass Effect delay really hurts.
 
L

LegendofDragoonLives

Member
Pretty shitty start from Shu's teams this gen to be fair. Games taking forever to release, games being pushed at will, massive AAA game cancelled well into development, games not living up to their potential & one of the teams shut down. 2 1/2 years into the generation and we have a GT Lite trailer of Sport with GT7 nowhere in line. I like Shu a ton, but that's some fucking awful management from this generation. :\ I'm confident at least one of TLG & Horizon will be pushed to 2017 and wouldn't be surprised at all if both do. If TLG gets pushed back than someone up in management deserves to be fired. Pathetic to show it after years of missing out and then pushing it another year after that.

Also Colin is right about PS4.5. If I want something upgradeable, I'd get a PC. I like my PS4 because it's simple and easy to use. Also developers can truly squeeze the absolute most that they can out of the console since there is only 1 set spec of it, while when you do this that no longer applies.
 
K

Kralamoonard

Member
LegendofDragoonLives said:
Pretty shitty start from Shu's teams this gen to be fair. Games taking forever to release, games being pushed at will, massive AAA game cancelled well into development, games not living up to their potential & one of the teams shut down. 2 1/2 years into the generation and we have a GT Lite trailer of Sport with GT7 nowhere in line. I like Shu a ton, but that's some fucking awful management from this generation. :\ I'm confident at least one of TLG & Horizon will be pushed to 2017 and wouldn't be surprised at all if both do. If TLG gets pushed back than someone up in management deserves to be fired. Pathetic to show it after years of missing out and then pushing it another year after that.
Click to expand...

Well that's AAA development for you nowadays. Big budget games, big risks, relatively low ROI compared to last gen and before (unless you're the CoD's or CS:GO's who have a long term healthy cycle where they can provide microtransactions to players who are willing to invest).

It's not just been Sony. It's a shame, but I mean, there's only so much blame you can put on Shu's management. I personally just feel it's the inherent nature of making an AAA game nowadays. Games are taking longer than ever to produce, averaging just over 3 years. It's not an exception to Sony; look at how all the third party publishers thought this gen would turn out.

Also, count me in the camp that Last Guardian will release this summer or fall, but Horizon will be delayed to spring 2017.
 
D

DagnastyEp

Member
Really great, meaty episode this week.

I'm fully expecting TLG to release this year. Given it's troubled history, I don't think they would've re-revealed it last year if they weren't certain the end was near. Shu said it's still on target for 2016, and that's what I'm expecting. Horizon on the other hand, I can see that going either way.

The interview with Shu was great. It was interesting to hear about the reason they decided to push the launch to the 2nd half of the year - being they needed more manufacturing time, due to higher than expected demand.

It will be interesting to hear their discussion on Evolution next week.
 
N

names2hard4you

Member
I mean we have games like the Order 1886 (which sure wasn't as fun as it could be), Star Wars Battlefront or more recently Uncharted 4 pushing the limits in terms of graphic fidelity, there is no pressing need for a PS4.5. It'd be nice to get these games at 60fps yeah, but would that have to come at the price of alienating most of the audience which most likely won't buy the system anyway? It's a n3DS situation all over again, that even I as an owner of one don't see as a good decision at all. Some games take advantage of the system while other don't, and most people still use the OG 3DS anyway. I say this again, if some high up at Sony is reading this (lol yeah right), save your resources, do some more R&D on the technology that you have put on the 4.5, and turn it into a fully developed and solid 5 to come in a bunch of years down the road, maybe with 4K/30fps, 1080p/60fps capabilities for games without the need for switching settings or anything like that.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
TLG is definitely coming this year, but are you really surprised Sony aren't going crazy promoting a Team Ico game in 2016? When like Sean Murray said "testers sit with a stopwatch as they play and get worried when an explosion doesn't happen after 30 seconds".
 
R

Ryan_MSF

Member
Couldn't agree with Colin more.

Sony have done such great work in terms of brand image this generation, and sony are flying. A 4.5 would completely shoot themselves in the foot. I understand where Greg is coming from, and selfishly i'd love a new machine myself - but it would be a complete PR disaster.
 
K

killroy87

Member
Ryan_MSF said:
Couldn't agree with Colin more.

Sony have done such great work in terms of brand image this generation, and sony are flying. A 4.5 would completely shoot themselves in the foot. I understand where Greg is coming from, and selfishly i'd love a new machine myself - but it would be a complete PR disaster.
Click to expand...

If only Sony is doing it, then I agree. But if both them and MS are doing it, then it's not like Sony are coming out as the bad guys. At that point it becomes a "don't hate the player, hate the game" situation.
 
meanspartan

meanspartan

Member
Also posted this on the FB group, may as well here too:

One angle they didn't cover on why Ps4.5 is a dumb idea (IMO) is the massive amount of money involved for hardcore Ps4 fans who preordered PSVR.

Take me for instance. I bought my Ps4 at launch, had it preordered since the E3 before. I preoredered PSVR yesterday for $550 after taxes. Now they are saying a Ps4.5 is rumored, partially to help PSVR run better? Another $400?

If I am buying VR this fall only to have a gimped experience when Ps4.5 comes out soon after, then fuck that. I'd just cancel my PSVR preorder and buy whatever the NX is lol. I am very interested in VR, but for $900 to get the "true" experience, I can wait a while longer.

Now, there is one way I am ok with a Ps4.5. If it is only a fancy upscaler that makes current 1080p/720p games run exactly the same but at full 4k for people that have those TVs, then I am fine with that I suppose if it also has no real bearing on PSVR. If the only difference is resolution and effects/framerate are the same, that's totally cool. Nothing wrong with letting 4k early adopters take advantage of the resolution they paid for.

And honestly, I imagine that an upscaler is the only way this can make sense for Sony. A GPU running games at 4k would be insanely expensive, PC's that do that are not cheap at all. We're talking graphics cards north of $600. Essentially, a Ps4 that runs games with a GPU powerful enough to output native 4k is for all intents and purposes a BIGGER jump than going from Ps3 to Ps4 was.
 
K

killroy87

Member
meanspartan said:
Also posted this on the FB group, may as well here too:

One angle they didn't cover on why Ps4.5 is a dumb idea (IMO) is the massive amount of money involved for hardcore Ps4 fans who preordered PSVR.

Take me for instance. I bought my Ps4 at launch, had it preordered since the E3 before. I preoredered PSVR yesterday for $550 after taxes. Now they are saying a Ps4.5 is rumored, partially to help PSVR run better? Another $400?

If I am buying VR this fall only to have a gimped experience when Ps4.5 comes out soon after, then fuck that. I'd just cancel my PSVR preorder and buy whatever the NX is lol. I am very interested in VR, but for $900 to get the "true" experience, I can wait a while longer.

Now, there is one way I am ok with a Ps4.5. If it is only a fancy upscaler that makes current 1080p/720p games run exactly the same but at full 4k for people that have those TVs, then I am fine with that I suppose if it also has no real bearing on PSVR. If the only difference is resolution and effects/framerate are the same, that's totally cool. Nothing wrong with letting 4k early adopters take advantage of the resolution they paid for.

And honestly, I imagine that an upscaler is the only way this can make sense for Sony. A GPU running games at 4k would be insanely expensive, PC's that do that are not cheap at all. We're talking graphics cards north of $600. Essentially, a Ps4 that runs games with a GPU powerful enough to output native 4k is for all intents and purposes a BIGGER jump than going from Ps3 to Ps4 was.
Click to expand...

If this thing exists, that 100% can't be all it does. The adoption rate of 4K TVs isn't nearly big enough, and won't be nearly big enough by the end of the PS4s life, to justify a new piece of hardware that does that.
 
meanspartan

meanspartan

Member
killroy87 said:
If this thing exists, that 100% can't be all it does. The adoption rate of 4K TVs isn't nearly big enough, and won't be nearly big enough by the end of the PS4s life, to justify a new piece of hardware that does that.
Click to expand...

Sure it would. 4k adoption will continue to go up, and they could sell it for only slightly more if it is just a Ps4 + a good upscaler built in. You only buy it if you want to take advantage of your new 4k TV to some extent. Upscaling won't ever match native output, but it can be a lot better than just what the TV does to upscale 1080p.

I think that makes a lot more sense than making a Ps4.5 that fractures the market and makes people who bought a Ps4 this past holiday season (thinking they get at least 3 more years of have the optimum Ps4 experience) feel fucked over.
 
R

RealityCheque

Banned
meanspartan said:
Sure it would. 4k adoption will continue to go up, and they could sell it for only slightly more if it is just a Ps4 + a good upscaler built in. You only buy it if you want to take advantage of your new 4k TV to some extent. Upscaling won't ever match native output, but it can be a lot better than just what the TV does to upscale 1080p.

I think that makes a lot more sense than making a Ps4.5 that fractures the market and makes people who bought a Ps4 this past holiday season (thinking they get at least 3 more years of have the optimum Ps4 experience) feel fucked over.
Click to expand...

For the price they'd need to sell at, there's zero chance that they'll be able to kit this out with an APU that is able to output real 4K at decent framerates. For example, a GTX 970 can kind of do it (30ish FPS or a little lower depending on the game) when it has a good CPU with it. But that combo is $400-500 and that's before RAM, HDD etc. So if sony is set on marketing this as a 4K machine you'd better love FPS in the 15-20 range.

If its just a PS4 with a good upscaler then that's practically false advertising. Besides. don't most 4K TVs have their own native upscaling?
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Ryan_MSF said:
Couldn't agree with Colin more.

Sony have done such great work in terms of brand image this generation, and sony are flying. A 4.5 would completely shoot themselves in the foot. I understand where Greg is coming from, and selfishly i'd love a new machine myself - but it would be a complete PR disaster.
Click to expand...

Where I think Greg gets it wrong is with saying 4.5 games would look/run better for normal games or in VR... that would be a disaster.

If the PS4.5 exists I believe it would be for be 4K support only and nothing else, graphical assets/frame rates should remain the same among all versions.
 
G

GreyOcelot

Member
EuropeOG said:
Where I think Greg gets it wrong is with saying 4.5 games would look/run better for normal games or in VR... that would be a disaster.

If the PS4.5 exists I believe it would be for be 4K support only and nothing else, graphical assets/frame rates should remain the same among all versions.
Click to expand...

i totally disagree. i think having the same game run at normal vs. ultra settings and/or 30fps vs. 60 fps on ps4 vs. ps4.5 would be tremendously appealing to hardcore gamers
 
Lashley

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
StrongBelwas said:
The majority of console owners are not hardcore gamers.
Click to expand...

ding ding ding

Nailed it. GAF is maybe 10% of the world's population of gamers, and even on here it's not universally agreed that this ps4.5 is a good idea.

EDIT: And yep, I have a PC already. I do not need a second one with the Sony logo on it.
 
K

Kralamoonard

Member
Lashley said:
ding ding ding

Nailed it. GAF is maybe 10% of the world's population of gamers, and even on here it's not universally agreed that this ps4.5 is a good idea.
Click to expand...

10%?!?! I think you're giving GAF way too much credit here lol, I was thinking 0.001%. Think about it, GAF has around 167,000 members (Source: GAF home page). Even then, not all of them are actively engaged in the gaming side of the forum, so let's use 160,000 as the base figure.

Around 1.2 billion people play games around the world with approximately 700 million playing online games. Let's say the number of 'core-casual console' gamers is around 160 million (based on last gen's figures for PS3/Xbox 360's, and perhaps by the end of this gen too for PS4/Xbox One/NX if each install base estimate is reached), ~50% of whom are maybe 'PlayStation gamers' (now this percentage is probably off, but you'll see my point). GAF would then be only like 0.001% relative to the "core" gamers, and 0.002% to the PlayStation gamers (Source: Google averages).

My Math probably has a significant degree of error, as they are just estimated figures, but you get my point lol; for GAF to have 10% of the world's population of gamers, it would have to have 120 million users if we're counting the people who play games around the world, or 16 million users if we're counting 'core-casual console gamers'.
 
G

GreyOcelot

Member
so, how about people who don't have or want gaming pcs? the prospect of a PS4.5 with updated specs is super appealing to me. throw down $400, sell my existing PS4 for $150-200.
 
S

StrongBelwas

Banned
GreyOcelot said:
so, how about people who don't have or want gaming pcs? the prospect of a PS4.5 with updated specs is super appealing to me. throw down $400, sell my existing PS3 for $150-200.
Click to expand...
Do you not understand that this idea is turning consoles into gaming PC's. If this happens you think they will stop at 4.5? Eventually the console space comes just like the PC space.
 
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