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[DriftingSpirit]

Who's arguing? Who's being passive aggressive? "Making claims?" And what "flimsy arguments"? That we don't know much more about those games? A trailer and an interview? I guess that is indeed technically more. And if people are happy with that then that's great. I'm sure we'll hear much more next week. So, put down the pitchforks, we're all friends here.

We are having an argument by merely discussing. It doesn't always connote something negative.

You said something completely false and I was attempting to make sure that was what you were saying in order to correct you. Instead of clarifying, you resorted to talking about "niche" games and us being "fun" and for us "not to hurt you" for whatever reason.

I'm not sure what you were trying to do with that response but I was simply trying to correct false information.

For this game, I actually don't think there will be a middle ground, to be honest. The concept sounds like it's going to be very divisive -- zombies, motorcycles, and black humour. It's either going to hit, or people are going to hate it.

Well, actually, some people will hate it regardless but I see what you're saying.

 

[Dangansona]

Greg and Colin you are crazy for not liking Team Ico games. And I honestly expect people won't be as disappointed as you think a) because it will be good and b) I don't think expectations grow at a linear rate, instead the time it has taken has allowed for the hype to be realistic.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

It was really interesting to see some of their predictions already come true (Horizon release date) and some of their predictions be shot down already (Persona 5 release date). I mean, they JUST filmed that thing and the game industry moves so fast that it was already "outdated" lol. Thats gotta be frustrating for them. Also gotta give props to Tim, the man is a dreamer, bless his heart.

P.S. I keep telling Collin that he misread that article about Nomura not knowing he was the FF7 director until it was revealed and he wont listen to me lol. (He was referring to when Kitase made him the director back when the project was greenlit in 2014, not that he found out at E3 2015 lol).

 

[CosmicQueso]

We are having an argument by merely discussing. It doesn't always connote something negative.

Oh. Cool then.

You said something completely false and I was attempting to make sure that was what you were saying in order to correct you. Instead of clarifying, you resorted to talking about "niche" games and us being "fun" and for us "not to hurt you" for whatever reason.

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what you were trying to do with that response but I was simply trying to correct false information.

Things are corrected. I still didn't find last year's conference all that impressive. Some posters really didn't like that and responded strongly, so I threw in the "niche" comment to needle them back. I wasn't making some serious statement on anything. I get you and others are incredibly passionate about those three games. I can respect that. I also don't have to personally agree with it, and not agreeing with it doesn't make me a bad person or not a fan of gaming, and it also shouldn't have someone like Colin reassessing his position in the industry because he wasn't blown away by it, as one poster claimed.

It's just video games. We good? You can call me an a-hole and say I have terrible taste in games. I'd agree with you on both counts.

 

[Raven117]

EDIT: I'M IN A COLIN AND GREG SANDWICH!!! IT FEELS LIKE LOVE AND SMELLS LIKE ITALIAN SANDWICHES. I LOVE IT HERE.

Clowns to the left of you?

Jokers to the right?

There you are?

Stuck in the middle with them?

Spoiler

instrumental

While we have you here Colin and Greg, keep up the good work! Looking forward to your E3 coverage.

 

[Neonep]

Gotta agree with most of the predictions except the Greg's BOLD prediction on TLG & No Man's Sky. I think both are $60 games and both along with Gran Turismo Sport are all releasing Oct. 2016 - Dec. 2016.

 

[Omnistalgic]

It's going to be trash like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, and you know it.

Keep up the good work Colin and Greg!

You hush your face with that blasphemy young sir!

 

[Wagram]

Btw you're wrong Colin, TLG is gonna be epic. 90's on the meta! This gens Journey!!

Spoiler

Ye of little faith

Ico and SOTC are definitely for specific people. I played SOTC back towards release and a few years back and thought it was okay, but nothing special. Some love it, but I don't think others quite get it and i'm in that club.

 

[xXCrazyCostaXX]

They've said a thousand times that they know a ton of stuff that is under embargo that they can't speak about. Do you think they ever bomb a prediction on purpose to make it more fun. Love the guys and what they do but I've always wondered this

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Things are corrected. I still didn't find last year's conference all that impressive. Some posters really didn't like that and responded strongly, so I threw in the "niche" comment to needle them back. I wasn't making some serious statement on anything. I get you and others are incredibly passionate about those three games. I can respect that. I also don't have to personally agree with it, and not agreeing with it doesn't make me a bad person or not a fan of gaming, and it also shouldn't have someone like Colin reassessing his position in the industry because he wasn't blown away by it, as one poster claimed.

It's just video games. We good? You can call me an a-hole and say I have terrible taste in games. I'd agree with you on both counts.

Ah, but I'm not incredibly passionate about Shenmue 3 and FF7R. I've never played Shenmue and I never finished FF7 (too many damn FF games). Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favorites games ever so TLG did resonate with me though

So, I'm not even deeply invested in the majority of the three games but I can understand why they have been received the way they have been. And no, of course it doesn't make you a bad person for not liking those games. I just think some of the reasoning provided for not liking how things went down is shallow. I'm going against that. I have no qualms with someone who is like, "Yeah, I am glad people got what they wanted but those games just aren't my cup of tea. I get why it may be a big deal though".

I just don't think the release date argument can fly when that has been E3 and the gaming industry for years now.

But yeah, we cool, mane.

 

[aadiboy]

I don't know...is it too much to ask just to judge TLG based on the quality of the game itself? I'm afraid critics are going to judge it based on how long it took to come out rather than it's base value as a game. When Colin talked about TLG this episode, it seemed like that was the way he was judging it. Like, it's probably going to be a 9 or 10 based on quality itself, but people are going to be like: "This is all that the game is after 10 years of development!?" It just makes me angry.

 

[ST2K]

I don't know...is it too much to ask just to judge TLG based on the quality of the game itself? I'm afraid critics are going to judge it based on how long it took to come out rather than it's base value as a game. When Colin talked about TLG this episode, it seemed like that was the way he was judging it. Like, it's probably going to be a 9 or 10 based on quality itself, but people are going to be like: "This is all that the game is after 10 years of development!?" It just makes me angry.

It's the same problem FFXV is going to face. People will either judge the games as standalone experiences or carry in the baggage of years of expectations. Because of this, I highly doubt either will get universal acclaim, regardless of their quality.

 

[get2sammyb]

I don't know...is it too much to ask just to judge TLG based on the quality of the game itself? I'm afraid critics are going to judge it based on how long it took to come out rather than it's base value as a game. When Colin talked about TLG this episode, it seemed like that was the way he was judging it. Like, it's probably going to be a 9 or 10 based on quality itself, but people are going to be like: "This is all that the game is after 10 years of development!?" It just makes me angry.

There's nothing you can do about it, it's just the way that it is. I guess all you can do is play the game and enjoy it. I've no doubt it'll live up to Ueda's legacy.

 

[ST2K]

It's also worth noting that neither of them cared for Ico or Shadow of the Colossus, so they're more viewing it from the outside than fans.

 

[AndyVirus]

In terms of the guys' predictions:

Tim
Crash is blind hope, but admitted blind hope. Not enough concrete evidence for me to believe it's actually happening but I definitely think there's been an approach, if not several approaches, to Activision for the rights.
Destiny 2..I can't say it's impossible but I doubt they'll address it before the last expansion. More likely to be given the finale slot at PSX in my opinion, like Paragon in the year just gone.

Colin
The price cuts of hardware are a bit much but not wildly so, Vita sounds right but the other two $30-50 low.
Santa Monica & Bend games finally unveiled, absolutely agree. God of War: Valhalla or whatever, 2017. The show closer perhaps. Dead Don't Ride however, as much as I'd like to be wrong, not this fall.

Greg
Possibly the most optimistic of the group. I don't see Naughty Dog there nor do I see Detroit having any chance of being 2016. Kojima is a slim hope but I have zero interest in him showing up just to present concept art; wait until PSX for a rapturous reception, CG trailer and full realisation of what his game plan is.
Gio Corsi's going to say Vita 4 times in his first sentence just to spite Greg.

No mention of Agent or Bioshock Vita; it's happening!

 

[nbnt]

Greg's predictions are so bad. TLOU2? Dead Don't Ride and Detroit coming out this year? TLG available now? Lol.

Also great job Colin, comparing Team ICO to ND, comparing a small team to a 200+ employee team. Also, how the hell do they still not know why it's been taking so long, read the fucking news FFS.

 

[notaxation]

Also great job Colin...

Thank you!

 

[relewis2011]

Thank you!

*Two thumbs up

 

[Omnistalgic]

Ico and SOTC are definitely for specific people. I played SOTC back towards release and a few years back and thought it was okay, but nothing special. Some love it, but I don't think others quite get it and i'm in that club.

Yeah, no doubt, I prefer Ico personally, as my edit above said, I really meant that one has aged extremely well, SotC too, but moreso with the HD remaster. Like Link never talking, there’s just something special to me about minimalistic story telling. I fell in love with both of those games quite quickly, especially when you see the overall theme.

 

[KinofChaos]

Greg's predictions are so bad. TLOU2? Dead Don't Ride and Detroit coming out this year? TLG available now? Lol.

Also great job Colin, comparing Team ICO to ND, comparing a small team to a 200+ employee team. Also, how the hell do they still not know why it's been taking so long, read the fucking news FFS.

For guys whose career is gaming they are quite uninformed about quite a few things. Not just them though it's across gaming media as a whole.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Thank you!

lmao...touche

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I just got to the talk about NEO and whether people will clap or boo when it is announced at E3. It'll probably be a mixture of both but I really don't think it is going to be difficult for Sony to explain this and for the market to accept it.

The people who will care are going to be the more hardcore portion of the market. The far larger casual market? I really do not think they are going to care. They'll just buy a regular PS4 or NEO and call it a day.

 

[Lnkn52]

I laughed too hard at the Kojima concept artwork would be stick figures.

 

[Omnistalgic]

There's nothing you can do about it, it's just the way that it is. I guess all you can do is play the game and enjoy it. I've no doubt it'll live up to Ueda's legacy.

This is my main reason for having confidence the game will be great and resonate with the same audience who loves his previous work. I don’t think Ueda would get back on board and release something he isn’t incredibly proud of, doesn’t seem like the type of person who wouldn’t just apologize to fans and say the game is canceled, “I’m terribly sorry to disappoint” on social media or something.

After years on the shelf, mismanagement, not getting things right on PS3, and who knows what else, he hopped back on the train, and is ready to release a game, in 2016 that is really not ticking any hot ticket box. The IGN footage as well renewed my confidence as I sensed passion in his interviews and descriptions of certain aspects of the game, and even mentioning how he likes the relationship with Sony Japan and how they handle certain aspects of development and he would love to even do another project with that relationship intact.

I’m optimistic.

 

[GIANKRATOS]

It's going to be trash like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, and you know it.

 

[streetsahead123]

I feel like you need someone like Colin to balance out the unrelenting ball of positivity that is Greg Miller. Their personalities are polar opposites and that creates a great dynamic.

 

[aadiboy]

As an aside, when you send in mail to say how much you like a game, don't say how much better it is than X game that Colin or Greg like. Then the conversation just devolves into how the listener is wrong, how much better X game is, and how terrible the game the listener likes is. This has happened several times already. It would be better to list the reasons why you and others like the game and try to present your argument in a way that doesn't lean towards fanboyism.

 

[names2hard4you]

Greg's predictions are so bad. TLOU2? Dead Don't Ride and Detroit coming out this year? TLG available now? Lol.

Also great job Colin, comparing Team ICO to ND, comparing a small team to a 200+ employee team. Also, how the hell do they still not know why it's been taking so long, read the fucking news FFS.

Breathe.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

lol I see Colin has his mind made up about TLG.

Shu said this about the budget but I guess it is lies. Technical limitations? Pfft. Lies!

I don't have a problem with someone standing behind what they think but not to the point where you completely rule out anything that opposes what you want to be true. Especially when there is far more evidence supporting the opposition to your point.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Off topic (a bit) but I miss Goldfarb with these two. He was an excellent third voice because his taste differed from the both of them. He loved Media Molecule's games, for example.

 

[nbnt]

For guys whose career is gaming they are quite uninformed about quite a few things. Not just them though it's across gaming media as a whole.

I don't blame them for not knowing things about Xbox or PC etc, but when you're PS "experts" and this kind of news (What Happened To The Last Guardian) was all over the internet last year (or more recently, this in depth video) yet you still spout BS about the game.. it's simply baffling. I don't care if they don't like how it looks or plays, it's the "oh there must've been something quite wrong with the game! the game was probably pretty bad and that's why it's taking so long!" they keep reiterating whenever they talk about it.

I like these guys and I mean no disrespect, but for once, get you facts straight about this single title.

 

[Mezoly]

Pretty good episode.

I really think that Neo will be a no show this E3. I think it's a product for the hardcore and it will be announced close to it's release in a blog.

 

[streetsahead123]

I feel like they're not wrong to be pessimistic about TLG. No matter what it is, if anything is delayed the amount of time TLG has been, it's a sign of a troubled production. Even if they just took a few years off in the middle, it still is worrisome that there was something about the project that made them want to stay away from it for a few years.

 

[BigRedOne]

Does Colin do this to solely to pay the bills, every time he comes off as so disinterested in doing a job that's considered a hobby. Sometimes I think he should just kick rocks and do something else and leave that job for people actually interested in the work and play field. You think someone that has an opportunity to go to E3 wouldn't whine about having to go. Why doesn't he just stay home if he cries about it so much.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Greg's predictions are so bad. TLOU2? Dead Don't Ride and Detroit coming out this year? TLG available now? Lol.

Also great job Colin, comparing Team ICO to ND, comparing a small team to a 200+ employee team. Also, how the hell do they still not know why it's been taking so long, read the fucking news FFS.

ND has not always been 200+ people and they have two teams working on two games. And his point still stands that ND has released 4 great games and they have released none. And even if you just consider the time just spent on PS4, that's four years of development time.

Sony made a huge mistake (again) announcing the game so early knowing all the development problems. Therefore it can't live up to the hype.

 

[aadiboy]

ND has not always been 200+ people and they have two teams working on two games. And his point still stands that ND has released 4 great games and they have released none. And even if you just consider the time just spent on PS4, that's four years of development time.

Sony made a huge mistake (again) announcing the game so early knowing all the development problems. Therefore it can't live up to the hype.

I mean, it's still set to come out this year. "Announcing" it one year before it releases is pretty good for the video game industry.

 

[Mezoly]

Does Colin do this to solely to pay the bills, every time he comes off as so disinterested in doing a job that's considered a hobby. Sometimes I think he should just kick rocks and do something else and leave that job for people actually interested in the work and play field. You think someone that has an opportunity to go to E3 wouldn't whine about having to go. Why doesn't he just stay home if he cries about it so much.

Every game journalist I listen to hate going to E3. I know it must be an awesome thing to go to E3 for the rest of us but it must be annoying to go to this loud and tiring convention every year.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

I mean, it's still set to come out this year. "Announcing" it one year before it releases is pretty good for the video game industry.

It was announced in 2009 for PS3.

 

[styl3s]

Every game journalist I listen to hate going to E3. I know it must be an awesome thing to go to E3 for the rest of us but it must be annoying to go to this loud and tiring convention every year.

Danny from Gamespot went on a mini tangent on his latest weekly games thing on his YT about people bitching about E3 and talked about he loves going and how if you hate it so much don't go.

I can see where Colin is coming from because E3 today isn't what it was a decade ago and the KF format doesn't benefit from it aside from partnering with Gamespot and potentially getting new fans.

 

[nbnt]

ND has not always been 200+ people.

ND's always been a bigger team with bigger budgets.

And even if you just consider the time just spent on PS4, that's four years of development time.

False. Let's look at the facts: Puppeteer, Knack Priority Over The Last Guardian Development. Knack came out late 2013, Ueda started his studio in summer 2014, so no. It's been ~3 years of actual development time on PS4.

Sony made a huge mistake (again) announcing the game so early knowing all the development problems. Therefore it can't live up to the hype.

I don't care about this and I never did. If a game is taking too long to develop = IT'S GONNA BE THE BEST GAME EVER then that's on people's stupidity. Do you see commercials everywhere hyping the game to the roof? Do you see Sony saying this game is going to blow you away?

 

[ShadyJ]

Let's keep this our little secret.



Correct.



Find a different podcast?



I'm going to let you in on a little-known secret: you don't know me. Alexa is an actual, real-life friend of mine, so if you don't mind, I'll go ahead and tend to my own friendships. She and I text back and forth and have been trying to set up a dinner recently (it's been a few months), but we're both chronically busy. I wasn't even privy to or invited to the dinner Greg was talking about, and we were rather obviously hamming things up and being facetious with the "too many friends" thing. If you think I'm "arrogant" and sound like a "terrible friend," I have good news for you: we aren't friends, so you don't have to worry about it.

Otherwise, I hope you're all well! I'm so pleased with the growth PSILY has been showing since we started it, and it's all thanks to our loyal listenership/viewership. We appreciate you. I'm anxious for this Sony press conference!

REKT

oh and "Hello" Colin.

 

[prwxv3]

I feel like they're not wrong to be pessimistic about TLG. No matter what it is, if anything is delayed the amount of time TLG has been, it's a sign of a troubled production. Even if they just took a few years off in the middle, it still is worrisome that there was something about the project that made them want to stay away from it for a few years.

This has been said so many times and has been reported many times. They could not get the game running on ps3 so they had to wait for ps4 hardware and then port the complicated ps3 engine to ps4. they have not spend much time actually designing the game. And the game looking exactly the same since we first saw it leads me to believe they are telling the truth.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

ND's always been a bigger team with bigger budgets.



False. Let's look at the facts: Puppeteer, Knack Priority Over The Last Guardian Development. Knack came out late 2013, Ueda started his studio in summer 2014, so no. It's been ~3 years of actual development time on PS4.

I don't care about this and I never did. If a game is taking too long to develop = IT'S GONNA BE THE BEST GAME EVER then that's on people's stupidity. Do you see commercials everywhere hyping the game to the roof? Do you see Sony saying this game is going to blow you away?

This not a ND vs Team Ico thing, The comment is merely to put into context how long this game has been in development. We could do the same thing with FF XV. Yes, ND s bigger with better budgets. Team Ico hasn't released a game in over 10 years. I don't care how small you are, that's a really really long time and highlights the troubled development.

You may not care, but announcing a game and then for it not to come out for 7 years is a huge mistake. It either creates extra hype for the game or makes people not care anymore.

The Kotaku article someone linked over stated it became a PS4 game in 2012. So it's been in development of some sort for at least 4 years on the PS4 (and that's not even counting all the design work and what not they already did for the other 7 years on the PS3.

This has been said so many times and has been reported many times. They could not get the game running on ps3 so they had to wait for ps4 hardware and then port the complicated ps3 engine to ps4. they have not spend much time actually designing the game. And the game looking exactly the same since we first saw it leads me to believe they are telling the truth.

After seeing Last of Us, Uncharted 3, and Ratchet and Clank (and even Resistance on PS3) I think the fact they couldn't get it to work on PS3 is a sign of the trouble production.

 

[prwxv3]

This not a ND vs Team Ico thing, The comment is merely to put into context how long this game has been in development. We could do the same thing with FF XV. Yes, ND s bigger with better budgets. Team Ico hasn't released a game in over 10 years. I don't care how small you are, that's a really really long time and highlights the troubled development.

You may not care, but announcing a game and then for it not to come out for 7 years is a huge mistake. It either creates extra hype for the game or makes people not care anymore.

The Kotaku article someone linked over stated it became a PS4 game in 2012. So it's been in development of some sort for at least 4 years on the PS4 (and that's not even counting all the design work and what not they already did for the other 7 years on the PS3.



After seeing Last of Us, Uncharted 3, and Ratchet and Clank (and even Resistance on PS3) I think the fact they couldn't get it to work on PS3 is a sign of the trouble production.

There is no ps3 game that looks like TLG and the fact that you even bring up resistance on ps3 is laughable. The games AI and feather tech alone would put major pressure on the ps3 (it had a framerate of 15 at its best on ps3).

 

[prwxv3]

Here is my argument that TLG has not had nearly as bad development troubles as people seem to think. It looks exactly the same as it did all those years ago. It is extremely unlikely for a game to go though enormous development troubles and not have massive changes to go with it. Look at Duke nukem forever it changed several times along its troubles development. How on earth is it possible for TLG to look exactly the same if it was in active development all these years?

 

[BigRedOne]

Every game journalist I listen to hate going to E3. I know it must be an awesome thing to go to E3 for the rest of us but it must be annoying to go to this loud and tiring convention every year.

I understand what you are saying but Colin isn't obligated to go he can just stay home and stream it like the rest of us and phone it in if he is tired of doing what seems to be his job.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Find a different podcast?

I'm going to let you in on a little-known secret: you don't know me. Alexa is an actual, real-life friend of mine, so if you don't mind, I'll go ahead and tend to my own friendships. She and I text back and forth and have been trying to set up a dinner recently (it's been a few months), but we're both chronically busy. I wasn't even privy to or invited to the dinner Greg was talking about, and we were rather obviously hamming things up and being facetious with the "too many friends" thing. If you think I'm "arrogant" and sound like a "terrible friend," I have good news for you: we aren't friends, so you don't have to worry about it.

Otherwise, I hope you're all well! I'm so pleased with the growth PSILY has been showing since we started it, and it's all thanks to our loyal listenership/viewership. We appreciate you. I'm anxious for this Sony press conference!

Honestly, this is why I like Colin. He doesn't kiss anyone's ass or does any of that politically correct bullshit. He tells you exactly how he feels.

And on a related note - Colin should get credit for Horizon simply because the segment was recorded last week so technically, it should count.

 

[Modest Mauser]

Here is my argument that TLG has not had nearly as bad development troubles as people seem to think. It looks exactly the same as it did all those years ago. It is extremely unlikely for a game to go though enormous development troubles and not have massive changes to go with it. Look at Duke nukem forever it changed several times along its troubles development. How on earth is it possible for TLG to look exactly the same if it was in active development all these years?

Well, it looks the same, but they did admit that the previews they showed earlier didn't actually run. What we saw last E3 was the first real time footage.

 

[aadiboy]

Well, it looks the same, but they did admit that the previews they showed earlier didn't actually run. What we saw last E3 was the first real time footage.

So then it looks exactly like the target they wanted to reach.

 

[prwxv3]

Well, it looks the same, but they did admit that the previews they showed earlier didn't actually run. What we saw last E3 was the first real time footage.

I meant in terms of design not graphics. the game did run on PS3 it just ran at 15 fps at best.