Darryl M R
Member
Will this episode be uploaded on the apple podcast service today? It would be nice to have something chill to listen to on my commute home
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
ChaosZeroX
Banned
It should already be on iTunes. It posts everywhere around the same time.
names2hard4you
Member
MN9 just sounds like a complete disaster. My thoughts go to those who pledged, down to those who gave Inafune a single penny.
Interesting to hear Colin's view on Neo vs Scorpio. After reading the Kotaku and Polygon, it sounded to me like it was MS who had to make a move because Sony were ahead in plans for a mid gen console.
I don't know how much difference 6TF is compared to 4.2TF, especially with the fact that these consoles are still tied to the original consoles. I know from the other thread in terms of percentages it's almost the same gap as the PS4 to the XBone but how can we visiualise the power difference?
It looks to me that Sony already a set date in mind for the reveal and release of Neo going from what Andy House said. If they do release this year then that's a year head start which could help them.
It's all new territory as far as mid gen consoles so who knows but I don't think Sony's in a bad situation at all.
As far as letting developers know in advance, surely they can do that without announcing it at a conference. Wasn't Neo first leaked from someone hearing developers talk at GDC? Giant Bomb were also able to get a copy of the directive for Neo too so it just seems to be that Sony was ahead and what was available to them a year earlier is a weaker spec'd console.
I don't know how much difference 6TF is compared to 4.2TF, especially with the fact that these consoles are still tied to the original consoles. I know from the other thread in terms of percentages it's almost the same gap as the PS4 to the XBone but how can we visiualise the power difference?
It looks to me that Sony already a set date in mind for the reveal and release of Neo going from what Andy House said. If they do release this year then that's a year head start which could help them.
It's all new territory as far as mid gen consoles so who knows but I don't think Sony's in a bad situation at all.
As far as letting developers know in advance, surely they can do that without announcing it at a conference. Wasn't Neo first leaked from someone hearing developers talk at GDC? Giant Bomb were also able to get a copy of the directive for Neo too so it just seems to be that Sony was ahead and what was available to them a year earlier is a weaker spec'd console.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I don't know, Colin. Shenmue 3 nor FF7R showed up this year and, for the most part, no one cared (FF7R has PSX for more showings anyway). I don't think Kojima showing that trailer will matter in the long run. It was enough to tease the mind palate until Kojima is ready to show more.
Edit - G: "Maybe he is head faking there."
C: "I don't think so."
G: "Damn....."
lol
Edit - G: "Maybe he is head faking there."
C: "I don't think so."
G: "Damn....."
lol
H.Cornerstone
Member
Colin and Greg not being PC gamers and not understanding hardware becomes evident whenever they talk NEO or Scorpio. NEO is twice as powerful and more CPU speed (the biggest bottleneck) which is pretty significant.
Now granted, they should still hold off so they aren't shown up a year later by Microsoft, but I don't think NEO is a "half step."
A year head start with weaker hardware or same launch time with equal hardware sounds like a win win situation to me whichever direction they go.
get2sammyb
Member
Yeah, I haven't really agreed with Colin's viewpoint on Neo right from the very beginning to be honest.
Then again, I think when Sony shows something like Horizon running on it, everyone's perspective will change.
Then again, I think when Sony shows something like Horizon running on it, everyone's perspective will change.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I respect Colin but I think he's really gone off the deep end with his evaluation of the Neo. I suspect he's getting caught up in the power battle. It seems that even pro PS4 channels fell for the 'no games' narrative that was being heavily pushed. I can't think of any other reason why Colin would put so much stock in power.
Nightengale
Member
What we can surmise from what Sony has hinted about Neo is that when they intend to show it, they also intend to do the "compare vanilla vs neo" thing to really highlight the improvement.
theindieboy
Member
Another great episode and really hope Greg gets a trophy made as will be some great comedy with Colin. I am on the fence about NEO till i see but getting PS VR so even if it comes out this year will likely get it mid next year hopefully after the price drop (in the UK so unoffical price drops tend to happen quick did for ps4 xbox).
theindieboy
Member
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Was kind of weird that they didnt bring up the likely price differences between Neo and Scorpio. AMD likely showed Sony and MS the exact same pieces of hardware, Sony chose the cheaper one, MS chose the more expensive one.
Xbox is not going to close the gap between PS4 and XB1 by releasing an expensive console (A year after the Neo). And even if the power gap was a big deal that gave Xbox momentum, they are only going to have that momentum for 2 years before the PS5 comes out and crushes Scorpio in specs.
Sony looks like they are going to give us the best console that they can for $399 dollars every 3 years, because thats the highest price they can set for a console and actually be successful with . The most powerful hardware in a console war usually losses.
With that being said, it is nice to see MS be aggressive with their specs.
Xbox is not going to close the gap between PS4 and XB1 by releasing an expensive console (A year after the Neo). And even if the power gap was a big deal that gave Xbox momentum, they are only going to have that momentum for 2 years before the PS5 comes out and crushes Scorpio in specs.
Sony looks like they are going to give us the best console that they can for $399 dollars every 3 years, because thats the highest price they can set for a console and actually be successful with . The most powerful hardware in a console war usually losses.
With that being said, it is nice to see MS be aggressive with their specs.
That Harper Lee comparison makes little to no sense. She didn't write a 'Mockingbird' sequel decades later; Go Set a Watchman was the original submission that she then refined into Mockingbird on the advice of her publisher, and there was plenty of controversy as to whether she really wanted it released at all in the first place.
Inafune's Mighty Number 9 is not his original vision for Mega Man; it's a product that leeches off the goodwill of Mega Man fans.
Inafune's Mighty Number 9 is not his original vision for Mega Man; it's a product that leeches off the goodwill of Mega Man fans.
Re: PS4.5
A year ago at this time we had no knowledge of Neo. Yet we are getting it this fall. I don't know what's stopping Sony from putting out a Scorpio competitor in the Fall of 2017 and moving down the Neo to its main SKU. That seems to be the model Andy House is hinting at.
A year ago at this time we had no knowledge of Neo. Yet we are getting it this fall. I don't know what's stopping Sony from putting out a Scorpio competitor in the Fall of 2017 and moving down the Neo to its main SKU. That seems to be the model Andy House is hinting at.
SolidSnakex
Member
House has specifically said that they don't want a phone model on consoles, so what you're describing isn't going to happen. A Scorpio competitor would be the PS5, and that's not coming for a few more years.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
They don't have to release it for PS4. Did the trailer even say in development for PS4?
Nothing about the console in trailer, iirc
AnthonypUK
Member
Colin, doubling down on is opinion..you don't say!
It feels like Sony was surprised by Microsoft's promised specs for the Scorpio but rather than go back to the drawing board and try to match Microsoft, they'll launch the less powerful Neo and hope there is a benefit to being "first to market" for a year.
In the end, I don't think either the Scorpio or Neo will do well so it's probably best for Sony to just cut their losses at this point and get it out.
In the end, I don't think either the Scorpio or Neo will do well so it's probably best for Sony to just cut their losses at this point and get it out.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I think MSFT is waiting to release Scorpio until 2017 specifically because that is the first time they will be able to release a 6 teraflop console for 400$. They could release it now, but it would be soo expensive it would be DOA.
Loved the part with Greg celebrating with the dog (don't know which dog/the name) and Colin bursting out laughing at it.
Its great when they have such a fun time with the show. While they are probably still a little tired, they don't SEEM too tired like when they had traveled for Rooster Teeth in Texas(?). Great episode.
Its great when they have such a fun time with the show. While they are probably still a little tired, they don't SEEM too tired like when they had traveled for Rooster Teeth in Texas(?). Great episode.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
How would they be able to afford such a console for 400$? That seems impossible to me. Even 500$ seems way too cheap for that kind of console.
theindieboy
Member
The dog is Lola, Colin's girlfriend Erin's dog both of who are a massive part of why Colin has been a lot happier lately. I met her (Erin not Lola) at KFL2 and she is a lovely person, not sure who Colin loves more, seems to be Lola lol
Lol. Thanks. I couldn't remember "Lola" at all. The only name in my mind was a name that started with "P" but all I could think of was portabello and I didn't think that was it. Just remember that there are two dogs.
DagnastyEp
Member
I am generally in agreement with Colin regarding Neo and Scorpio, though my thoughts regarding Neo aren't as harsh as Colin's.
Because we at least have some knowledge about Neo and Scorpio (from official sources and rumors based on trusted sources) we can begin to compare and contrast the approach Sony and MS are taking.
Neo *feels* (my own feeling) like much more of an incremental upgrade (when the entire console is considered). While early rumors pegged Neo as "PS4k", I'm not confident that it will be powerful enough to deliver true 4k gaming. My prediction regarding the visual leap of PS4 to Neo for most titles will be close to that of TLOU to TLOU:R (TLOU to R are on different console generations, but I think my comparison stands). I just don't see a PS4 to Neo upgrade to be very compelling. On the other hand, for someone without a PS4, jumping into a Neo seems like a no brainer (no just for games, but 4k media options).
Scorpio seems to represent a much larger leap (not just in GPU, but potentially the whole APU). While the games on Neo and Scorpio will have to work on the current base models, there's definitely more room for Scorpio games to push graphical boundaries, and I think that it will show. I think there will be more of a compelling argument to get XB1 users to jump on Scorpio (especially with VR compatibility).
Another issue is timing. When looking at the two: 3 years with more of an incremental upgrade, or 4 years and more of a generational upgrade - (my preference for Xbox aside) I would choose the latter.
Because we at least have some knowledge about Neo and Scorpio (from official sources and rumors based on trusted sources) we can begin to compare and contrast the approach Sony and MS are taking.
Neo *feels* (my own feeling) like much more of an incremental upgrade (when the entire console is considered). While early rumors pegged Neo as "PS4k", I'm not confident that it will be powerful enough to deliver true 4k gaming. My prediction regarding the visual leap of PS4 to Neo for most titles will be close to that of TLOU to TLOU:R (TLOU to R are on different console generations, but I think my comparison stands). I just don't see a PS4 to Neo upgrade to be very compelling. On the other hand, for someone without a PS4, jumping into a Neo seems like a no brainer (no just for games, but 4k media options).
Scorpio seems to represent a much larger leap (not just in GPU, but potentially the whole APU). While the games on Neo and Scorpio will have to work on the current base models, there's definitely more room for Scorpio games to push graphical boundaries, and I think that it will show. I think there will be more of a compelling argument to get XB1 users to jump on Scorpio (especially with VR compatibility).
Another issue is timing. When looking at the two: 3 years with more of an incremental upgrade, or 4 years and more of a generational upgrade - (my preference for Xbox aside) I would choose the latter.
McMoneyman
Member
I think you're thinking of Portillo, the weiner dog, who is Greg's dog.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
Mannn, I just got through the Neo and Scorpio bit and it's a frustrating listen. Colin seems to brush over the fact that the Neo will very likely be much cheaper and also likely out a full year ahead of the Scorpio. Both gargantuan advantages.
Call me naive, but I just don't see the power difference between the two being all that much of a game changer for a couple of reasons:
1) All games will still have to run on OG PS4/XB1 for the immediate future and the overwhelming majority will still be playing on those consoles negating them from likely being a drastically different experience from the PS4/XB1. Think PS3/360 games that were also made for PS4/XB1 early on in this cycle.
2) 4K. Unless i'm misinformed, Neo as it is now will likely just be used to improve 1080p games performance but will have 4k media playback. Scorpio can do 4K. While 4K seems great, just a sliver of the gaming population in 2017 will both have A) a 4K tv and B) A Scorpio. Developers are going to put the time into development for where the largest majority of the gamers are, and that won't be the slim amount of 4K/Scorpio owners in the near future.
3) PS4 ecosystem is the overwhelming market leader right now. With the year head start and the very likely widening of that gap until the Scorpio comes out, that seems like a heck of a thing to overcome. Especially now that likely every XB1 "exclusive" is now coming to PC and that probably further fragments their potential buyers. The only place you'll see the Last of us 2 is on ps4/neo, Halo 6 will very likely be able to buy on PC.
Also, I'm flummoxed by his idea that the confusion between two consoles will be too much for most. It's not that hard, the one that costs more has better performance, but they're all playing the same games on the same network. The release of Neo also very likely lowers the price of the OG PS4 further lowering the cost of entry into the PS4 ecosystem, and for the vast majority, the OG PS4 is still a fantastic console and that's where the vast, vast majority of PS4 games will be played on.
By the time the Scorpio maybe starts hitting its stride, we'll be hearing about the new Playstation console and how that will likely be the most powerful console. That cycle will likely repeat, but for the moment it's all about getting people invested in your ecosystem where they become more entrenched in that system.
Like, I can see someone not being excited about the Neo, that is a fine opinion to have, but the fact he thinks the Scorpio is such a fantastic idea just doesn't really make sense to me.
Call me naive, but I just don't see the power difference between the two being all that much of a game changer for a couple of reasons:
1) All games will still have to run on OG PS4/XB1 for the immediate future and the overwhelming majority will still be playing on those consoles negating them from likely being a drastically different experience from the PS4/XB1. Think PS3/360 games that were also made for PS4/XB1 early on in this cycle.
2) 4K. Unless i'm misinformed, Neo as it is now will likely just be used to improve 1080p games performance but will have 4k media playback. Scorpio can do 4K. While 4K seems great, just a sliver of the gaming population in 2017 will both have A) a 4K tv and B) A Scorpio. Developers are going to put the time into development for where the largest majority of the gamers are, and that won't be the slim amount of 4K/Scorpio owners in the near future.
3) PS4 ecosystem is the overwhelming market leader right now. With the year head start and the very likely widening of that gap until the Scorpio comes out, that seems like a heck of a thing to overcome. Especially now that likely every XB1 "exclusive" is now coming to PC and that probably further fragments their potential buyers. The only place you'll see the Last of us 2 is on ps4/neo, Halo 6 will very likely be able to buy on PC.
Also, I'm flummoxed by his idea that the confusion between two consoles will be too much for most. It's not that hard, the one that costs more has better performance, but they're all playing the same games on the same network. The release of Neo also very likely lowers the price of the OG PS4 further lowering the cost of entry into the PS4 ecosystem, and for the vast majority, the OG PS4 is still a fantastic console and that's where the vast, vast majority of PS4 games will be played on.
By the time the Scorpio maybe starts hitting its stride, we'll be hearing about the new Playstation console and how that will likely be the most powerful console. That cycle will likely repeat, but for the moment it's all about getting people invested in your ecosystem where they become more entrenched in that system.
Like, I can see someone not being excited about the Neo, that is a fine opinion to have, but the fact he thinks the Scorpio is such a fantastic idea just doesn't really make sense to me.
Portillo! Thats the name. lol. Thank you. At least I got the "port" part of the name right
schaft0620
Member
Colin did a great job covering MN9
get2sammyb
Member
They weren't surprised by anything. They've got their own roadmap, they've clearly been working on Neo for a while in order to get it out this year, and they're going to stick to that regardless of vague promises from their competition.
If anyone has been caught by surprise, it could well be Microsoft. But irrespective, the fact is that these companies work on their own timelines. It baffles me how reactive some people think these billion dollar firms are.
What makes you think they were surprised. If anything it was MS who was surprised
http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/25/11774294/xbox-one-slim-one-two-scorpio
It's like Colin has not played Uncharted and watched God of war. What Sony studios are doing with the current ps4 and with double the GPU power they will be fine. power won't mean much if Microsoft studios don't take advantage of it. For 3rd parties other than maybe 4k marketing there won't be much of a difference between neo and scorpio. We are talking the same assets with maybe better effects at best. But with 90% of people having 1080p tvs I don't expect to many effects being rendered at 4k.
H.Cornerstone
Member
They're stupid if they release Scorpio for anything above 500. 400 is the sweet spot.
EdReedFan20
Member
What I can see happening is Neo comes out this year and Scorpio comes out next year, which would mean that by coming out with a system in 2016, that means Sony can probably release a PS5 sooner than Microsoft could with a Scorpio follow-up. It's all one-ups-manship at this point. I could see PS5 (or whatever it'd be called) as early as 2019. That would be too soon for a Scorpio follow-up (maybe 2020).
True. I could see Sony doing an announcement similar to what Microsoft just did too. Announce the specs 1.5 years early to try and take the wind right out of Microsoft's sails/sales...
Dangansona
Member
I worry that an overabundance of choice and trying a bunch of games but rarely diving deep is burning out Colin.
Edit: Wait, so Colin is most excited for Persona 5, and he feels like he has nothing he wants to play right now, but he might not play Persona 5 because he wants to play Persona 4 Golden first to which he says there is no time for?
You really don't need to play Persona 4 Golden to play 5.
Edit: Wait, so Colin is most excited for Persona 5, and he feels like he has nothing he wants to play right now, but he might not play Persona 5 because he wants to play Persona 4 Golden first to which he says there is no time for?
You really don't need to play Persona 4 Golden to play 5.
Lord of Ostia
Member
I guess he feels like a 'poser' because he is excited for the game but can't really call himself a fan of the series if he hasn't played any of the games. However, that's kind of missing the point, as the Persona games are much like Final Fantasy, each new entry is a new setting with new characters that is only tied to the older games in terms of theme and mechanics. They don't build off of one another as a narrative, each one can serve as an entry point in the series. That's the intention, they want new people to pick up Persona 5 as their first Persona game.
Dangansona
Member
He should realize many of us experience the poser thing already since the majority of Persona fans have only played 3 and 4 (myself included, although pretty soon I will be taking another crack at 2) lol.
Sorry Colin, but I still think you have a tin foil hat on with The Last Guardian.
Are they happy it took 10 years to come out? Of course not. That's likely why a lot of people left, their work was done and they didn't get to work on games they wanted to make for a long time. It clearly was never the plan.
It may not look like it's "too ambitious" for the PS3 to you, and I don't think that's what the issue was, but I really do believe that it didn't run well on PS3. I believe the engine they're using was just not optimal for the PS3. I also believe Sony always knew that this game was never going to set the world on fire in terms of sales. I think (don't know, of course) that it was much cheaper to put the game on hold and stop pouring money into it and wait for hardware to match the engine, rather than spend the programming time (the most expensive part of game development) to make the engine work well on PS3. If you think they really spent ten years actively developing the game, then I think that's a bit delusional. Sony would have cancelled it long ago if it truly required 10 years of active development.
As for the game meeting expectations or not, it truly depends on the person playing it, of course. If people judge it because they think more time between announcement and release should mean a better game, then those people will almost certainly be disappointed. As for me? I think SOTC is one of my favorite games, warts and all. Controls and camera were always somewhat rough to me. I replayed SOTC recently and I still feel the same way about it as I always did. Those controls and camera were never perfect to me, and I expect TLG to be the same way. I want it to be as good as SOTC, but I expect it to fall somewhere between Ico and SOTC. If anything, waiting ten years made me lower my expectations, simply because I'm more "grateful" to get it now than I would have been if it came out in 09. Waiting this long pretty much made me feel starved for another game like this, so I'm almost certain it will meet my expectations. But I do agree that people probably won't be reasonable or level-headed about this, and will expect the game to be perfect because they believe it's been in development for 10 years.
Honestly, even with a much smaller team than Guerilla's, Yoshida's quote about the game's budget being much smaller than Horizon wouldn't make any sense had the game not been shelved for a long, long time as it clearly was. The game would also likely look way different, and I don't think as many people would've left the team had it been in active development this whole time.
I think someone on the team went to higher ups at Sony and asked for more money to reprogram the engine for PS3 when they saw it wasn't working well, and Sony found that to be unwise considering sales expectations. Then the choice became "what's more expensive and riskier, porting it to a different engine altogether, or putting it on hold, then porting the existing engine to a future platform we're already working on?" with the obvious answer being the former. Hell, it probably would have taken the same amount of time in the end.
Are they happy it took 10 years to come out? Of course not. That's likely why a lot of people left, their work was done and they didn't get to work on games they wanted to make for a long time. It clearly was never the plan.
It may not look like it's "too ambitious" for the PS3 to you, and I don't think that's what the issue was, but I really do believe that it didn't run well on PS3. I believe the engine they're using was just not optimal for the PS3. I also believe Sony always knew that this game was never going to set the world on fire in terms of sales. I think (don't know, of course) that it was much cheaper to put the game on hold and stop pouring money into it and wait for hardware to match the engine, rather than spend the programming time (the most expensive part of game development) to make the engine work well on PS3. If you think they really spent ten years actively developing the game, then I think that's a bit delusional. Sony would have cancelled it long ago if it truly required 10 years of active development.
As for the game meeting expectations or not, it truly depends on the person playing it, of course. If people judge it because they think more time between announcement and release should mean a better game, then those people will almost certainly be disappointed. As for me? I think SOTC is one of my favorite games, warts and all. Controls and camera were always somewhat rough to me. I replayed SOTC recently and I still feel the same way about it as I always did. Those controls and camera were never perfect to me, and I expect TLG to be the same way. I want it to be as good as SOTC, but I expect it to fall somewhere between Ico and SOTC. If anything, waiting ten years made me lower my expectations, simply because I'm more "grateful" to get it now than I would have been if it came out in 09. Waiting this long pretty much made me feel starved for another game like this, so I'm almost certain it will meet my expectations. But I do agree that people probably won't be reasonable or level-headed about this, and will expect the game to be perfect because they believe it's been in development for 10 years.
Honestly, even with a much smaller team than Guerilla's, Yoshida's quote about the game's budget being much smaller than Horizon wouldn't make any sense had the game not been shelved for a long, long time as it clearly was. The game would also likely look way different, and I don't think as many people would've left the team had it been in active development this whole time.
I think someone on the team went to higher ups at Sony and asked for more money to reprogram the engine for PS3 when they saw it wasn't working well, and Sony found that to be unwise considering sales expectations. Then the choice became "what's more expensive and riskier, porting it to a different engine altogether, or putting it on hold, then porting the existing engine to a future platform we're already working on?" with the obvious answer being the former. Hell, it probably would have taken the same amount of time in the end.
EdReedFan20
Member
I always respect their opinions on things, but Colin and Greg said something that I see around the industry (and forums) that drives me a bit crazy. They both were talking about how they feel Gaikai/PS Now is useless and Sony should abandon it. Of course it would seem useless to them (and many of us here), as it's not truly meant for us, the hardcore users (many of which have PS3s and a sizeable PS3 library). It's meant more for people who don't have PS3s. Heck, you don't even need to have ever owned a console. Nearly all Sony TVs and Blu-Ray players and many Samsung TVs have PS Now built in. Not only that, but it actually runs quite well (obviously the better your internet is, the better your experience will be). Would I love to see true backwards compatibility? Heck yeah, I would. I just don't see it happening. At least, not any time soon. So, basically, I think there is a lot of value in PS Now for Sony and do not want to see it go anywhere, unless it's shown that Sony is losing lots of money on the service.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Agreed.
I guess what Colin is saying has been the version flying around for so much longer that it persists regardless of the new information. People will believe what they want to believe and the new information doesn't aid in wanting to believe the game has sunk millions upon millions upon millions and the development team has been breaking their backs working on this game for over ten years and are just now wrapping up development.
I actually thought about using PS Now the other day for the first time, but found out Ni No Kuni (PS3) isn't on it... and I'm having the same issue with Xbox One BC (The only 360 game I've been tempted to play is Mass Effect 3).