If that's what you believe then sure but with how MS has been flip-flopping with certain info I don't even want to have an opinion until we have concrete info.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
If that's what you believe then sure but with how MS has been flip-flopping with certain info I don't even want to have an opinion until we have concrete info.
I don't buy it. Colin admitted he talked to like one developer and asked his opinion (most of the time when people talk about their sources, they're referring to "that one guy I know").
Agreed. People are excited about games because of how they look. Countless threads here on gaf fine tooth comb and debate the graphical fidelity of games should instantly illustrate that. To say graphics don't matter show how detached he really is.
Gameplay is always king, no one is arguing that. Sony has offered various ways to play a game over the past generation. From vita, to move, PSVR to PS4. And should be applauded. Who else offers that many mediums for gameplay? But to act like graphics don't matter is crazy. My eyes couldn't roll back further when he brought up super mario bros on NES.
To what end? To defend himself against a mob of people criticizing him? He's come in here many times and made clear that if you don't like it, don't listen.
The only thing that annoys me about him is his inability to listen and absorb. He tends to talk at people.
But whatever, I love Greg. Listening to him makes me happy on my walks.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Even looking at the Stream I could tell the difference with Horizon. Holy crap that game looks amazing.
RedAssedApe
Banned
His argument with Andrea Rene and Tim in their PS4 Slim reaction video about mobile games was especially bad. #colinwasright taken to the worst levels.
yeah that's pretty much it, he's come in here a few times to address certain things. I always appreciate his input, whether I agree with it or not. to me colin is a great personality because he has great insight (whether some of yall want to accept that or not, he's been closer to the industry than many of us ever have) and he is fairly consistent with his views making him a good barometer to line up against my own opinions. I've agreed with him strongly and I've disagreed with him strongly and I think that's fine. great, even.
AmuroChan
Member
Not to defend his opinions, because that's his right, but have a conversation. The guys have always preached KF is a community where conversation is a two-way street between them and the fans. To just say fuck off if you don't agree with my opinions would be completely contradictory to what they preach.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I completely disagree with Colin on this one - I can't fathom how the Pro merits a reaction that strong - but I actually think he's the opposite to how you describe him.
A lot of the videos/podcasts that he takes part in involve him sitting back and absorbing the opinion of others before making his own. I would expect him to a bit more measured with his opinion in their next video.
In saying all that, the XB1 S comparisons are a joke.
I like the show and I tend to agree with him, but I do not like the giddiness he gets in his voice when he laughs his way into saying he is right about a topic. It is very difficult to listen to.
I don't mind that tbh. it sort of became a meme with the podcast beyond/kinda funny listeners and they embraced it a bit. add in that colin seems to be at least a little bit anti-social and I can understand how the execution of embracing that meme might be a bit awkward. but I'm awkward as fuck myself so I give some leeway for weird deliveries from gaming personalities, especially ones that started as just gamers. we're a weird bunch.
JamesJoyce1882
Member
Felt the same way, also had to stop listening. The episode started to feel like one of these YouTube videos where people get fake angry to please their viewers.
recklesscognition
Member
One other thing, which is a great point, Colin brought up TLOU and how no one ever thought that would be done on a PS3 but they did it because they were forced to.
Where are the games that no one thought would be possible on the PS4? Oh, they possibly gave up on that and introduced new hardware instead of pushing the PS4 to the limit.
Sony needs to convince us that the original PS4 is the focus and they are focused on pushing that console to the limit and not simply using the Pro as a way to coast into the next iteration of the console without giving us better experiences on the original.
Where are the games that no one thought would be possible on the PS4? Oh, they possibly gave up on that and introduced new hardware instead of pushing the PS4 to the limit.
Sony needs to convince us that the original PS4 is the focus and they are focused on pushing that console to the limit and not simply using the Pro as a way to coast into the next iteration of the console without giving us better experiences on the original.
Except the thing people didnt think was possible with TLOU were the graphics. The gameplay and story isnt something people thought was impossible. But to have that game look like it did was what shocked most people.
Which seems counter-intuitive to his entire point about graphical upgrades.
Okami Haundo
Member
When the Playstation (Pro) was first leaked, I listened to Colin for months while gritting my teeth. I was absolutely convinced that Sony was doing something revolutionary with the Pro, and that his negativity, while a good counter-argument, was unbearable. After yesterday's Playstation Meeting, I find myself almost completely agreeing with him.
I definitely agree that his rant at the end about gameplay being king above all else was a bit excessive, but he's had that opinion for quite some time. I do agree with him in that I'll take a game with deep and meaningful mechanics over something that's shallow and pretty any day though.
I know a ton of people on here are jumping at the chance to point out the excessive amounts of articles you've read about performance improvements with the NEO. At the end of the day, I think that's the biggest point here. Without reading all of these in-depth hands-on previews of the NEO, you wouldn't have known the specific improvements it can offer for games outside of 4K TV's.
To me, the KF crew emphasized that this is the biggest problem that Sony will face with the Playstation Pro: 4K and HDR support are the easiest features to show off, performance boosts that will vary by developer are not. When you put the focus on 4K and HDR support, the Pro doesn't stand out much alongside the Xbox One S. Sony has a marketing challenge on their hands here and so far they aren't doing a great job.
Finally, before anyone jumps down my throat about X,Y or Z reason that the Playstation Pro is nothing like the Xbox One S, I want to give you a challenge. Pretend that you work retail and I'm your customer. I have a 4K TV that supports HDR and I've heard that the Xbox One S and Playstation 4 Pro support it. Which one would you recommend? Why would you recommend it? How you would show off the differences?
I definitely agree that his rant at the end about gameplay being king above all else was a bit excessive, but he's had that opinion for quite some time. I do agree with him in that I'll take a game with deep and meaningful mechanics over something that's shallow and pretty any day though.
I know a ton of people on here are jumping at the chance to point out the excessive amounts of articles you've read about performance improvements with the NEO. At the end of the day, I think that's the biggest point here. Without reading all of these in-depth hands-on previews of the NEO, you wouldn't have known the specific improvements it can offer for games outside of 4K TV's.
To me, the KF crew emphasized that this is the biggest problem that Sony will face with the Playstation Pro: 4K and HDR support are the easiest features to show off, performance boosts that will vary by developer are not. When you put the focus on 4K and HDR support, the Pro doesn't stand out much alongside the Xbox One S. Sony has a marketing challenge on their hands here and so far they aren't doing a great job.
Finally, before anyone jumps down my throat about X,Y or Z reason that the Playstation Pro is nothing like the Xbox One S, I want to give you a challenge. Pretend that you work retail and I'm your customer. I have a 4K TV that supports HDR and I've heard that the Xbox One S and Playstation 4 Pro support it. Which one would you recommend? Why would you recommend it? How you would show off the differences?
I have no idea what Colin is on about in this episode. Neo never made any promise that it would change the way games are played. It has always been billed as a system which would have slightly better graphics than PS4. Why on earth did he have the expectation that it would suddenly offer the next evolution of gameplay?
If PS5 is exactly the same as PS4 just with better graphics, then he'll have a legit point.
It's not a great point. PS3 has a much higher learning curve for developers than PS4. Expecting PS4 to have the same lifetime improvement as PS3 is silly.
If PS5 is exactly the same as PS4 just with better graphics, then he'll have a legit point.
It's not a great point. PS3 has a much higher learning curve for developers than PS4. Expecting PS4 to have the same lifetime improvement as PS3 is silly.
That's...not a good point lol.
I'm probably projecting.
Agreed. TLOU was special because of the characters and the writing. Third person shooting with some janky stealth was nothing special.
edit and the ps4 only gameplay is coming via VR, like it or not.
GreyOcelot
Member
Haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but I know I pretty much completely disagree with Colin on neo/pro
Either way...
"He only does everything, Colin Moriarty"
"Ehhhh"
Had me busting out laughing in my car. Colin is great
Either way...
"He only does everything, Colin Moriarty"
"Ehhhh"
Had me busting out laughing in my car. Colin is great
recklesscognition
Member
I've had a lot of cough syrup today. I was trying to make a point that I thought he was saying you can make great games on PS4, you don't need the Pro to do it, look what they did with the PS3, they created TLOU.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Nah, I agree with you. He does sit and listen for prolonged periods but that doesn't change what you suggested. He still does it regardless.
Right, but that isn't the reason for Pro. Sony said they made Pro to target a particular consumer. Not to make great games that can only be done on Pro.
family_guy
Member
Thing is that Sony will probably send him and Greg free systems anyway.
Do you have friends that play video games? Where do they play?
Do you require physical UHD media in your device or are you more a Netflix kinda person?
If you're interested in video games:
Here is Gears of War 3, Halo 5 or 6
Here is Uncharted 4K, Horizon 4K
And then the person either knows the answer. If they don't know then you recommend the cheaper one.
Okami Haundo
Member
I re-read my post and knew that I should have ruled out the "friends" idea! My intention was for this example to attempt to highlight the differences that you can show a customer at retail. The only thing I would change is that you mentioned Uncharted and Horizon in 4K, but not Gears and Halo. The Xbox One S upscales all games to 4K automatically, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to demonstrate a difference there.
I wasn't going for an inherently gimped comparison.
Obviously connect them to two identical TVs that are UHD + 4K compatible at the same color settings etc.
That this isn't necessarily reasonable as it's just a 400 dollar purchase and you might not be worth the time for the little markup is not accounted for in my post.
Boy, the nonsense arguments just don't stop in this thread.
The PS4 will still be pushed to the limit by the best developers out there. Naughty Dog's next game will not be PS4 Pro exclusive - no game will.
Okami Haundo
Member
I wasn't going for an inherently gimped comparison.
Obviously connect them to two identical TVs that are UHD + 4K compatible at the same color settings etc.
That this isn't necessarily reasonable as it's just a 400 dollar purchase and you might not be worth the time for the little markup is not accounted for in my post.
I'll be really curious to see Digital Foundry comparisons between the Xbox One S and Playstation 4 Pro when UHD + 4K are enabled.
As for this being "reasonable", I'm your customer damnit! Try to turn me away for a $400 sale and I'll ask to see your manager.
Omnistalgic
Member
- $15 BOM does not mean it costs Sony only $15 to include it
- People aren't using 4K Blu-Ray now, or next year, but want it because the competitor has it? Makes no sense
- A boring conference doesn't mean a bad product
- PSPro and PS4 will likely add longevity to the gen, before Scropio, wasn't that what everyone wanted?
I think kinda funny guys will soften a lot over the coming weeks once they see how much this is a compliment to an incredible system. And how MS is basically telling fans to upgrade.
- People aren't using 4K Blu-Ray now, or next year, but want it because the competitor has it? Makes no sense
- A boring conference doesn't mean a bad product
- PSPro and PS4 will likely add longevity to the gen, before Scropio, wasn't that what everyone wanted?
I think kinda funny guys will soften a lot over the coming weeks once they see how much this is a compliment to an incredible system. And how MS is basically telling fans to upgrade.
notaxation
Neo Member
Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
<3Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
Omnistalgic
Member
And stay out!!!!Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
We don't want your negative Nancy persona dogging on PS4bro!
Still love you bro, can't wait to see your reactions and impressions as we get closer to launch and VR.
names2hard4you
Member
Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
LMFAO.
RedAssedApe
Banned
People want what they don't have (even if they don't use it). The rage is a bit irrational and a lot of people are being hyperbolic (so what else is new?) but potential future proofing is a legit reason to be disappointed.
Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
Hopefully you won't stay away too long. I'd still like to know how you feel about the PS4 Pro when you and the Kinda Funny crew have one in your possession.
This all seems a bit overblown here. The way I see it is that Colin is genuinely excited for the next step in gaming that radically changes gameplay – VR. He reiterated again yesterday how much he is looking forward to VR, and has stated time and time again that he believes in it for not just games, but for new experiences that haven't even been thought of yet.
I think Greg and Colin especially looked at the Neo leaks as a way for Sony to really push VR... whether that be through new experiences or fidelity increases that are big enough to make a noticeable difference while playing in VR. It's possible the Pro might provide that, but Sony spent no more than, what, 3 minutes talking about VR yesterday? Instead they chose to spend more time on talking about games will look better with "4K" resolutions and HDR, both things that are impossible to demo over a stream. I found this to be a big issues for the way in which they revealed it – they didn't really provide a compelling reason as to why people at home might want to shell out for this upgrade. They offered it as an option, yes, but they didn't really sell it. Even the tone of the whole conference was just unenthusiastic and drab compared to the way the PS4 or even XBO was announced, as if the attitude was "Well, we ended up making this thing... anybody want it?"
Now, part of this just has to do with the fact that these iterative consoles are a new approach in the console hardware space and have to be marketed differently as a result. At the same time, a new product launch like this should come with a bit of excitement, or something to point to as a "that's why I want a Pro!" moment. That moment wasn't there yesterday, and I sympathize with Colin's general consensus of "why?" after it was all said and done.
One last point about Scorpio – it so far exists in a slightly different realm from Neo because it is going to offer one of those big, dramatic selling points – VR. The XBO is not VR compatible, and the Scorpio will surely be able to deliver high quality VR experiences. In that sense, MS has an opportunity to clearly differentiate their products and give people a big reason as to why they might want a Scorpio. (in addition to prettier graphics) I see that as being more consequential in terms of how an iterative console like this is perceived, and another reason as to why Colin may feel more neutral/open towards the idea of the Scorpio. (a dramatic power increase/new system abilities (VR) when compared to the existing XBO)
Sorry for the ramble. Hopefully Colin sticks around, I would love to hear him discuss this a bit more on a forum/long-form FB post.
I think Greg and Colin especially looked at the Neo leaks as a way for Sony to really push VR... whether that be through new experiences or fidelity increases that are big enough to make a noticeable difference while playing in VR. It's possible the Pro might provide that, but Sony spent no more than, what, 3 minutes talking about VR yesterday? Instead they chose to spend more time on talking about games will look better with "4K" resolutions and HDR, both things that are impossible to demo over a stream. I found this to be a big issues for the way in which they revealed it – they didn't really provide a compelling reason as to why people at home might want to shell out for this upgrade. They offered it as an option, yes, but they didn't really sell it. Even the tone of the whole conference was just unenthusiastic and drab compared to the way the PS4 or even XBO was announced, as if the attitude was "Well, we ended up making this thing... anybody want it?"
Now, part of this just has to do with the fact that these iterative consoles are a new approach in the console hardware space and have to be marketed differently as a result. At the same time, a new product launch like this should come with a bit of excitement, or something to point to as a "that's why I want a Pro!" moment. That moment wasn't there yesterday, and I sympathize with Colin's general consensus of "why?" after it was all said and done.
One last point about Scorpio – it so far exists in a slightly different realm from Neo because it is going to offer one of those big, dramatic selling points – VR. The XBO is not VR compatible, and the Scorpio will surely be able to deliver high quality VR experiences. In that sense, MS has an opportunity to clearly differentiate their products and give people a big reason as to why they might want a Scorpio. (in addition to prettier graphics) I see that as being more consequential in terms of how an iterative console like this is perceived, and another reason as to why Colin may feel more neutral/open towards the idea of the Scorpio. (a dramatic power increase/new system abilities (VR) when compared to the existing XBO)
Sorry for the ramble. Hopefully Colin sticks around, I would love to hear him discuss this a bit more on a forum/long-form FB post.
Anybody who thinks they've got the full idea of what to expect from the Pro from watching that stream is a bit misguided. Similarly to VR, this is just not going to show as well as you'd like unless you're looking at it live, on a 4k screen, coming straight from the source. I'm curious to see more impressions from the people who were in attendance. Giant Bomb and DF gave it glowing praise. The DF guy called the difference it made "revelatory"... how the hell is that not giving some of the naysayers pause considering they were watching a live stream?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
I thought you were spot on.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Hey guys, what'd you think of th...
There's a lot of very valid criticism in the last few pages about what you said in the last PSILY and this is your response??
Agree with their negativity on it. Seems like if it were replacing the PS4 as a whole, as in the OG/Slim was dead and its just PS4 |Pro| from now on I guess it would be more palatable to me? As it stands how many people will opt for the slim because of the price difference and because dipshits at Bestbuy/Gamestop will tell them the Pro is only for 4K, which only extends the lifetime they need to support the base PS4.
So now I guess I wait for the PS4 |PRO||S| in a few years? Is it like phones now where I will wait for refresh cycles?
So now I guess I wait for the PS4 |PRO||S| in a few years? Is it like phones now where I will wait for refresh cycles?
sems4arsenal
Member
Felt the conference was bad as they suggested but they (Tim in particular) seem to not understand what The PS4 Pro can do, it's not the Xbox One S, it's much more powerful. But I agree with most things they've said.
Colin's graphics don't make good games is true and highlights a particular issue but it's not really that relevant.
Edit: unless he means it's tougher for devs etc then fair point.
Colin's graphics don't make good games is true and highlights a particular issue but it's not really that relevant.
Edit: unless he means it's tougher for devs etc then fair point.
Dirtyshubb
Member
What typically happens with well know people is that they ignore the valid comments and focus on the ones that come across as shit posting so they dont have to tackle them. Colin might come back and explain his stance at some point on certain things but we shall see if he actually tackles the very valid points made against his 'how does this make games better?' point which many including myself have made good points against.
And the thing is that while some posts might come across as aggressive, i think its simply because its a one way conversation and when you have a well known and respected person coming out with arguments that are either baseless or simply foolish and then have your valid points passed off as hating or even worse you get 'well thats his opinion' it makes things seem even worse.
So the reason Scorpio is better is that it has 1.5-2 more TF than Neo and Scorpio's fragmentation of the userbase? IDK, it seems irrational to condemn neo but welcome scorpio.
RedAssedApe
Banned
greg don't own a 4k tv though :[ (i think they mentioned having one in the studio) haha