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[mckmas8808]

Their credibility is going to go down the toilet if they continue like this. We've had the PS4 Pro specs for months so there's no excuses. To compare the 7% spec bump the One S got (still doesn't match the OG PS4) to the PS4 Pro is really clueless.

It's really embarrassing that they can't get this part right. Like really really bad. And I've been with Colin and Greg for 3 or so years now.

 

[Some Nobody]

It is fascinating to me how focused ya'll are on this Xbox One S comparison when largely they were talking media. Yeah, there was a slight mention of saying the One S was more powerful too and that was weird, but it did not make up the bulk of their show.

But then, a lot of GAF was always going to be against Colin's opinion. Because so many people here were hailing this as a great thing. Doubtlessly the same people who were upset prior to the PS4 launch that it wasn't more powerful than it was.

And the reality is (I can do this now 'cause I'm not barely awake) ya'll want a PC. But you want someone to build it for you. So this to you is amazing.

Me? I'm all good. This thing is asking for a minimum one grand investment, since you get the best bang by buying a 4K TV. I don't have that, most people don't have that. And (here's the kicker) by the time 4K has become as ubiquitous as HD TVs, the PS5 would either be out or should've been out because it'll have been 6-7 years since PS4's launch.

But what's weird to me is how this opinion (or Colin's) gets under so many people's skin. Like, you won. Sony is doing the thing you wanted them to do. Why are you bothered that some people think that thing is a bad decision.

 

[mckmas8808]

To what end? To defend himself against a mob of people criticizing him? He's come in here many times and made clear that if you don't like it, don't listen.

That's a weird way to interact with your fan base.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

A Press release is the last thing the event needed to be, if you are a journalist or an influencer and you want to have valid opinion on what the PS4 Pro can do you needed to be in New York watching the demos on 4K hdr screens or downloading the 4K video files and watching on a 4K display.

It's still a $400 box, the barrier of entry for PC gaming is huge like at least double that.

Unless the PS4 Pro 2 comes out next year this isn't a cell phone model. And every game works on both it's just an option for people with 4K tv's who want 4k content or those who want a performance boost at 1080p.

People wouldn't be upset with Colin and KF in general if they focused on the legitimate criticisms for why they didn't like the Pro, but it was filled with misinformation over what is good about the Pro, and knowing Colin's opinion about the Neo from the start it just seemed like confirmation bias. The weirdest part of the whole thing was Colin's rant on game design / mechanics being more import than graphics, well yeah duh, it just seems like such a nonsensical argument. There is no harm in having a more powerful option that doesn't fragment the user base.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

It is fascinating to me how focused ya'll are on this Xbox One S comparison when largely they were talking media. Yeah, there was a slight mention of saying the One S was more powerful too and that was weird, but it did not make up the bulk of their show.

But then, a lot of GAF was always going to be against Colin's opinion. Because so many people here were hailing this as a great thing. Doubtlessly the same people who were upset prior to the PS4 launch that it wasn't more powerful than it was.

And the reality is (I can do this now 'cause I'm not barely awake) ya'll want a PC. But you want someone to build it for you. So this to you is amazing.

Me? I'm all good. This thing is asking for a minimum one grand investment, since you get the best bang by buying a 4K TV. I don't have that, most people don't have that. And (here's the kicker) by the time 4K has become as ubiquitous as HD TVs, the PS5 would either be out or should've been out because it'll have been 6-7 years since PS4's launch.

But what's weird to me is how this opinion (or Colin's) gets under so many people's skin. Like, you won. Sony is doing the thing you wanted them to do. Why are you bothered that some people think that thing is a bad decision.

I don't think people here are against Colin's opinion that this is unnecessary/ an unforced error by Sony, that's fine for him to think.

Most of the disagreement (me included) against him having his facts wrong and saying objectively incorrect things, such as it's not a substantial upgrade over the OG PS4, you can't tell the difference (on a stream) and being Pro Scorpio but Anti PS4 Pro when they are essentially the same thing., and most importantly his tone over this which makes zero sense.

It's quite clear he doesn't care about hardware/fidelity but his tone of being an expert on this rubs people the wrong way.

 

[mckmas8808]

A few counter-points.

1) Scorpio, taken within the context of the current Xbox One family, is likely going to offer a more compelling reason to upgrade than upgrading from a PS4 to a PS4 Pro. I touched on that here:

So to me, compared to the existing XBO's power level and feature set, Scorpio is likely going to appear as a dramatic upgrade and step-up from the XBO. (while still existing within the XBO family, which does complicate things) I don't think Scorpio will cause substantial fragmentation – VR is going to be the primary differentiator between the two – because the games/accessories/OS/etc. will all remain the same. How long the XBO is supported remains to be seen of course.​

2) Within the Playstation family, in which the PS4 is already compatible with VR, the PS4 Pro seems like a much more marginal upgrade. Yes, it does offer graphical benefits for people who have 4K sets, HDTV sets, and VR headsets. But is there something there that makes your VR experience in particular so much better that warrants that upgrade? Considering they spent such a small amount of time on it, I'm not convinced.

I'm certainly not condemning Sony for this, but I think the raison d'etre for the PS4 Pro is fairly weak compared to the Scorpio taken in context with the respective console families, the release windows, etc.

You are 100% right. And that's by Sony's design. They are giving people options. It's not about making you upgrade. The PS4 and PS4 Pro are one family. Sony doesn't care at all which one you buy.

They just want you to own at least one of them. It's a different approach than to what MS is doing and that's fine. These companies have two different road maps.

 

[Some Nobody]

I don't think people here are against Colin's opinion that this is unnecessary/ an unforced error by Sony, that's fine for him to think.

Most of the disagreement (me included) against him having his facts wrong and saying objectively incorrect things, such as it's not a substantial upgrade over the OG PS4, you can't tell the difference (on a stream) and being Pro Scorpio but Anti PS4 Pro when they are essentially the same thing., and most importantly his tone over this which makes zero sense.

It's quite clear he doesn't care about hardware/fidelity but his tone of being an expert on this rubs people the wrong way.

I could absolutely tell the difference. Absolutely. But it just reminded me of those comparison threads I used to see on here where someone would show what a game ran like on PC compared to PS3/PS4. I was always impressed, but...at no point did I feel motivated to get up and build a gaming PC, even though I enjoy building PCs.

And the reason he's pro Scorpio is it feels like more of a leap. If we're going to do this, let's fucking do this. Don't half-ass it, is where he was coming from. I kind of agree, though I care much more about RAM since that affects world size, AI, etc. etc.

And I mean, if you paid attention, he said the things I'm saying in this post.

 

[paulogy]

What puzzles me the most about this is the idea that power doesn't improve gameplay.

One of Colin's favorite PS4 games is Resogun (by Housemarque). Originally a PS4 exclusive, it was later ported down to PS3 and Vita. The game is identical on these others systems, as far as I can tell, except for framerate and graphical quality. Yet Colin hated them. Why? (personally I enjoyed Resogun on Vita, as it was the first way I could play it before I later got a PS4). From what I recall he indicated Resogun -- a game that is purely about gameplay -- just didn't "feel" right on these other systems, due to latency and other factors. Was the porting bad? I don't think so. I think the difference is PS3 & Vita lacked the power the PS4 had to make this game truly great.

So why do we say that power doesn't matter for gameplay?

 

[H.Cornerstone]

I could absolutely tell the difference. Absolutely. But it just reminded me of those comparison threads I used to see on here where someone would show what a game ran like on PC compared to PS3/PS4. I was always impressed, but...at no point did I feel motivated to get up and build a gaming PC, even though I enjoy building PCs.

And the reason he's pro Scorpio is it feels like more of a leap. If we're going to do this, let's fucking do this. Don't half-ass it, is where he was coming from. I kind of agree, though I care much more about RAM since that affects world size, AI, etc. etc.

And I mean, if you paid attention, he said the things I'm saying in this post.

I could tell on the stream as well.... I am saying they said they (as in Kinda Funny) couldn't tell the difference on the stream, which the stream is not a great way to look at it. They had a chance to go to the event and see first hand but chose not to. Based on that, they should have given it more of the benefit of the doubt.

the Scorpio is more of a leap... a year later and who knows at what cost. Is it going to only cost 400? That is how technology works, 1 year is huge with regards to technology.

I really don't understand the argument you are making, and my points still stands that people's main problem with Colin are:

1. Getting facts wrong such as PS4 Plus is not a substantial upgrade over PS4 (which it is if you do a little research and know hardware)
2. His Tone and the amount of vitriol towards something that really does not affect him or the 40 million people who already have PS4.

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

I could absolutely tell the difference. Absolutely. But it just reminded me of those comparison threads I used to see on here where someone would show what a game ran like on PC compared to PS3/PS4. I was always impressed, but...at no point did I feel motivated to get up and build a gaming PC, even though I enjoy building PCs.

And the reason he's pro Scorpio is it feels like more of a leap. If we're going to do this, let's fucking do this. Don't half-ass it, is where he was coming from. I kind of agree, though I care much more about RAM since that affects world size, AI, etc. etc.

And I mean, if you paid attention, he said the things I'm saying in this post.

Like, how is the Pro "half-assed" and the Scorpio isn't? Both are "restricted" by having to be compatible by the OG systems/infrastructure. Obviously it's likely the Scorpio is more powerful, but they're both operating in the same arena.

Both are OPTIONAL upgrades. If you are a person who cares about the likely upgrades the more powerful systems will have, then buy it. If not, stay completely happy with the OG systems. The levels for disdain for an optional system just don't make sense when it will not effect him one bit.

 

[Servbot24]

Pro would only be half-assed if Sony declared they wanted to make a system that could display games in true 4k. But they didn't. It is the product they decided to design, and as long as it's not going to be defective, that's fine.

 

[mckmas8808]

Colin really should be asking - "How is Microsoft going to make the case for 1.8 - 2 more TF over PS4 Pro to the mainstream consumer?"

This is also one of my main problems with Colin and Greg with respect to this topic. They say MS outclassed Sony with the mid-gen consoles, but they never talk about the potential price of the Scorpio.

Or how they will sale it to consumers 4 years after the Xbox One came out, but will not have ANY exclusives.

 

[Modest Mauser]

What puzzles me the most about this is the idea that power doesn't improve gameplay.

One of Colin's favorite PS4 games is Resogun (by Housemarque). Originally a PS4 exclusive, it was later ported down to PS3 and Vita. The game is identical on these others systems, as far as I can tell, except for framerate and graphical quality. Yet Colin hated them. Why? (personally I enjoyed Resogun on Vita, as it was the first way I could play it before I later got a PS4). From what I recall he indicated Resogun -- a game that is purely about gameplay -- just didn't "feel" right on these other systems, due to latency and other factors. Was the porting bad? I don't think so. I think the difference is PS3 & Vita lacked the power the PS4 had to make this game truly great.

So why do we say that power doesn't matter for gameplay?

I think his point was more that this incremental upgrade isn't going to matter for gameplay. Especially since Sony's said the games (besides performance and visuals obviously) must be the same on both platforms. He specifically said it's going to be the same games with the same issues, and I agree with that point. I think it has an audience somewhere, but it's not something that's super enticing for your average consumer.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I think his point was more that this incremental upgrade isn't going to matter for gameplay. Especially since Sony's said the games (besides performance and visuals obviously) must be the same on both platforms. He specifically said it's going to be the same games with the same issues, and I agree with that point. I think it has an audience somewhere, but it's not something that's super enticing for your average consumer.

But as others have pointed out he praises Scorpio because of a bigger jump in power yet that is also officially (at least currently) restricted to having no exclusives of its own other than VR games (which ps4 can already do) so how is that any different?

Unless Microsoft back tracks on the exclusive factor (which wouldn't surprise me) or they allow devs to have exclusive modes etc for Scorpio which just segments the audience then I don't see how it's any different other then having even more power that's being held back because of the XBONE or the extra power is there solely to be used to run the rift headset and do similar graphical upgrades like ps4 pro mode does.

 

[mckmas8808]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

So how would you play Uncharted 4, Days Gone, Gran Turismo, or Horizon next year in 4K?

And I'm assuming you aren't interested in PSVR then right?

 

[CrimsonSquall]

The one thing I don't think Colin is seeing is the chess vs checkers argument.

PS4Pro will launch in a market where Sony is more than a few million ahead in sales worldwide. They are winning pretty substantially by anyones bets. With that being said, this has been in development for a minute now. When Scorpio was announced, they must have been shitting themselves, but when they showed their release slot they must have been cheering.

Wonder why u say? PS4Pro and slim get a full yr and a half to soak in sales and have the better hardware all around. Scorpio will release and MSFT will basically be doing free advertising for the next generation. PS5 can get announced for after Scorpio, it WILL top it on all hardware fronts and it'll be an actual different console step, not this Quasi XB1 family deal going on with Scorpio. Sony will still stay as top dawg.This is chess my boys, not checkers.

 

[mckmas8808]

The one thing I don't think Colin is seeing is the chess vs checkers argument.

PS4Pro will launch in a market where Sony is more than a few million ahead in sales worldwide. They are winning pretty substantially by anyones bets. With that being said, this has been in development for a minute now. When Scorpio was announced, they must have been shitting themselves, but when they showed their release slot they must have been cheering.

Wonder why u say? PS4Pro and slim get a full yr and a half to soak in sales and have the better hardware all around. Scorpio will release and MSFT will basically be doing free advertising for the next generation. PS5 can get announced for after Scorpio, it WILL top it on all hardware fronts and it'll be an actual different console step, not this Quasi XB1 family deal going on with Scorpio. Sony will still stay as top dawg.This is chess my boys, not checkers.

Great point. I love listening to videogame podcast. From Kinda Funny, to IGN, and GiantBomb's podcast. But I'm becoming more and more disappointed that not ONE PERSON in life has made this point ever!

What happens if Sony comes out with a PS5 in 2019 with 32 GBs HBM ram and a 10 Teraflop GPU made on a 7 nm node? Would that then make the MS Scorpio look smart?

 

[krae_man]

Great point. I love listening to videogame podcast. From Kinda Funny, to IGN, and GiantBomb's podcast. But I'm becoming more and more disappointed that not ONE PERSON in life has made this point ever!

What happens if Sony comes out with a PS5 in 2019 with 32 GBs HBM ram and a 10 Teraflop GPU made on a 7 nm node? Would that then make the MS Scorpio look smart?

I kinda thought they would go on two year cycles leapfrogging each other.

Microsoft will have the fastest console during odd numbered years and Sony even numbered years.

 

[Aces&Eights]

I kinda thought they would go on two year cycles leapfrogging each other.

Microsoft will have the fastest console during odd numbered years and Sony even numbered years.

I like this, now I will know that when I renew my car tabs that it is time for a new system.

 

[killroy87]

I kinda thought they would go on two year cycles leapfrogging each other.

Microsoft will have the fastest console during odd numbered years and Sony even numbered years.

Lol, and developers will all say "fuck that" to the extra work.

 

[EmiPrime]

You are 100% right. And that's by Sony's design. They are giving people options. It's not about making you upgrade. The PS4 and PS4 Pro are one family. Sony doesn't care at all which one you buy.

It really is that simple. They don't care as long as you stay in their ecosystem. Your PSN sub money and games purchases are all the same to Sony whether you stay on the old PS4 or the Pro. I would have bought a PS3 Pro to play (among others) Assassin's Creed 3 at a locked 30fps in a heartbeat but sadly we were never given that option.

I thought the VideoGamer UK podcast had a much more rational and informed discussion about it.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Microsoft are at quite a big risk in my eyes when it comes to release schedule.

Nintendo, other than their already established downward trend in console sales, sealed themselves as the optional console for people when they started releasing their consoles half way through the generation (by Sony and MS releases) because most people would buy either Sony or Microsofts console and by the time Nintendo came out people had already established themselves on one of the other platforms.

Of course Microsoft won't have the issue of a lack of power or 3rd party game's like Nintendo does but if Sony can keep their current momentum with the slim and pro and Microsoft dont get a runaway success with Scorpio they run the risk of Sony coming out with a ps5 that has exclusive games like a traditional new generation plus most likely backwards compatible and taking the wind out of Microsofts sales.

It might not go that way of course but I think there is a pretty realistic chance that things could pan out this way.

 

[Markoman]

Just checked some footage of Bannerlord and I have no idea how you would think that it's "next gen" but maybe that's because I think the term "Next-gen gameplay" is dumb as hell anyway. We aren't in the early days of 3d gaming anymore. If they replaced everything with stick figures and buildings while retaining the exact same gameplay, would you still consider it "next-gen" gameplay even if you could play it on a rusty toaster?

You can make innovative games with weak hardware and Nintendo is proof of that. Yes, some games may require lots of power for the devs to achieve their true vision but that isn't the norm.


Source?

Easy answer: if I want a realistic medieval battlefield simulator, it needs as many NPCs as possible.
My beefy CPU + GPU for example can handle up to 1000 units on screen (in M&B 1)
My notebook I3 CPU maybe 200-300max
Current console CPUs will most likely get 200-300 units, too with optimization.
If this isn't a clear example for next-gen, I don't know...

 

[shira]

Colin savage as fuck.

Can't wait for the pro numbers

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Colin's general reactions to PSPro can be concluded as oldmanyelling.gif. He's had a certain opinion on it since he heard about it and doesn't try to change his mind. I say this since he's easily one of my favorite journalists and people I look at for information when it comes to gaming.

 

[LiK]

everyone seems to be angry or upset with Colin but Greg and Tim agree with him. ah well.

 

[ElephantShell]

Lol, and developers will all say "fuck that" to the extra work.

You're crazy if you don't think developers want consoles with more power. Also scaling games to different specs isn't that hard, devs have been doing it for years. First parties will have to adjust but the tools for scaling between PS4 and PS4 Pro are apparently really good.

 

[cheesekao]

Easy answer: if I want a realistic medieval battlefield simulator, it needs as many NPCs as possible.
My beefy CPU + GPU for example can handle up to 1000 units on screen (in M&B 1)
My notebook I3 CPU maybe 200-300max
Current console CPUs will most likely get 200-300 units, too with optimization.
If this isn't a clear example for next-gen, I don't know...

Sorry but when it comes to PC, the "gen" business is a little eh. If you play the game with 1k units and you consider it "next-gen", does me playing the same game with lesser units automatically makes the game "not-next-gen"?

 

[Markoman]

Like I said, if everything is replaced with stick figures and buildings so that it can run on a toaster while having the same gameplay, do you consider it next-gen gameplay?

Of course, because I haven't played an action-RPG large scale battle game before M&B? Have you? Moussou games don't count, because they have non existing AI. Not saying that M&B's AI is great, but it's doing much more than any other battle simulating game I've ever played.
Did I mention that Bannerlord is developed by a rather small team?
I'm still amazed how many ideas and concepts the team was able to put in the first game.
If you haven't played the first Mount & Blade game, I advise you to check it out if you're into Medieval, RPG, Action, Sim games or wait for Bannerlord.
Colin HAS a point, we're mostly getting formulaic games today. Don't even dare to say that Witcher 3 couldn't be done on last gen machines. Why is Witcher 3 next-gen? Because it's large and there's plenty of foliage? Well, Xenoblade C runs on hardware similar to last gen machines and is large, too.
Please, name one true next-gen console game, maybe I've missed something.
Last gen got away with not reinventing the wheel, because the jump from SD to HD was a really huge leap.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

everyone seems to be angry or upset with Colin but Greg and Tim agree with him. ah well.

Tim and Greg seemed much more reserved and I think Tim said he was still going to buy one.

and Greg hasn't been anti-Pro for the past 6 months, which coupled that with Colin's tone, is again a large part of people's problem with Colin.

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

...

Colin HAS a point, we're mostly getting formulaic games today. Don't even dare to say that Witcher 3 couldn't be done on last gen machines. Why is Witcher 3 next-gen? Because it's large and there's plenty of foliage? Well, Xenoblade C runs on hardware similar to last gen machines and is large, too.
Please, name one true next-gen console game, maybe I've missed something.
Last gen got away with not reinventing the wheel, because the jump from SD to HD was a really huge leap.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but him bringing this up in regards to his frustration with the Playstation Pro literally have nothing to do with one another. Having more power doesn't restrict creativity or whatever thing he wants from games these days. So much of his hostility towards the Pro just doesn't make sense when this is a completely optional upgrade.

 

[EmiPrime]

everyone seems to be angry or upset with Colin but Greg and Tim agree with him. ah well.

I don't think any of them covered themselves in glory.

 

[Markoman]

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but him bringing this up in regards to his frustration with the Playstation Pro literally have nothing to do with one another. Having more power doesn't restrict creativity or whatever thing he wants from games these days. So much of his hostility towards the Pro just doesn't make sense when this is a completely optional upgrade.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say in my original post:
His arguments work in isolated discussions and he hits some right tones for me (next-gen discussion), but you're right, I don't get how an adult (30+?) person working in this industry can seemingly be frustrated over the Pro.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but him bringing this up in regards to his frustration with the Playstation Pro literally have nothing to do with one another. Having more power doesn't restrict creativity or whatever thing he wants from games these days. So much of his hostility towards the Pro just doesn't make sense when this is a completely optional upgrade.

Colins point was that more power doesn't make games better. Most games today can't live up to Super Mario World or SUper Mario Bros 3.

Power doesn't equal better stories or gameplay.

I don't get it, most of the people in this community whine about how wrong he is or whatever. So stop listening. Its simple. It seems most people don't like him from the way they speak in this thread. Jesus

 

[EatinOlives]

Colins point was that more power doesn't make games better. Most games today can't live up to Super Mario World or SUper Mario Bros 3.

Power doesn't equal better stories or gameplay.

I don't get it, most of the people in this community whine about how wrong he is or whatever. So stop listening. Its simple. It seems most people don't like him from the way they speak in this thread. Jesus

The community has largely accepted the PS Pro with enthusiasm even back when the rumors started coming out. People were hopping on board well before anyone had any idea how the patching and/or "Pro Mode"s were going to be. It's not surprising that they're trashing someone resoundingly rejecting the idea.

At the end of the day, maybe Colin doesn't like the fact that this is all but a niche product for people who already have a PS4. If you're an OG PS4 owner here's no reason to get this unless you you're fast 'n loose with your cash or you're a superfan who absolutely HAS to have the latest and greatest at any given moment. As someone who has a PC and an OG PS4, I have no reason to get one and Sony certainly didn't give me a reason to this week. Perhaps Colin was expecting to get a reason, but didn't get one and that's where the anger is coming from.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Oh I don't doubt that Colin is a huge Sony fan and wants them to succeed, the problem is that increasingly he ends up being against something for reasons that either don't make sense or he is just not looking at the big picture.

His 'does this make games better?' argument is a prime example of this since its an argument that doesn't make sense. Sony aren't in control of 'making games better and tackling the issues of the industry ' like the point he brought up. They can only give more power to devs and make it easier to develop on the console which they have been and are continuing to do.

Making 'games better' is down to developers, they are the ones in charge of making games with unique ideas and new gameplay mechanics so blaming Sony is ridiculous. I mean adding more power just gives devs the ability to do more, if they decide to chase pretty graphics instead of new/refined gameplay that's up to them and not the platform holder.

He then brings up the tired old 'show me a game that you couldn't do on PS3/People never imagined TLOU on ps3' point when as others mentioned TLOU amazed people because of the graphics (in the context he Means), not some new gameplay mechanic.

It just comes across as a bunch of thoughts/ideas that aren't relevant to each other or are wrong and blame being assigned regardless.

Another point people bring up is that he is excited for vr as a new experience and that's true, but how does he expect a new version of an existing console (which we have always known the pro to be) to do something as radically different gameplay wise as a separate device? You could say 'but how will it help vr?' and that's obvious, it will give the ability for prettier graphics and framerates for vr games. Why that is a question at all is baffling since it wouldn't be anything else.

I want to state that this isn't anything against him as a person but when people are waving away valid criticisms and examples of poorly thought out opinions that someone with his experience shouldn't be making with 'its his opinion' and then at other times laud his knowledge and personal experience with the industry it becomes frustrating because this is a discussion board and if he is entitled to his opinion others are entitled to disagree (as long as it doesn't go into personal attacks of course).

You hit the nail on the head. His rant was nonsensical, and so is the prevailing attitude -at least on the forums- towards the PS4 Pro, a platform that is a simple upgrade made with VR and generation longevity in mind, and not a new entry to be discussed separately from the Vanilla version of the console. If it were up to me, there would be no need to launch it, but being so agressively, vehemently opposed to the idea that somebody else -a potential buyer- might decide to go for this option instead of the slim...is a childish stance.

 

[EmiPrime]

If I can play Final Fantasy XV at 30fps+ on a Pro instead of 18-30fps on XB1/PS4 that to me is a big gameplay improvement.

Playing Resident Evil 6 on PS4 at 60fps was like playing a completely different game to the 25fps 360 version. It went from a game I didn't like to one of the best third person action games I have ever played.

More power can mean better gameplay and given you can get $150 at worst for your old console, $250 or less for an upgraded machine is hardly daunting.

 

[family_guy]

Colin HAS a point, we're mostly getting formulaic games today. Don't even dare to say that Witcher 3 couldn't be done on last gen machines. Why is Witcher 3 next-gen? Because it's large and there's plenty of foliage? Well, Xenoblade C runs on hardware similar to last gen machines and is large, too.
Please, name one true next-gen console game, maybe I've missed something.
Last gen got away with not reinventing the wheel, because the jump from SD to HD was a really huge leap.

Yeah, well put a 8bit Mega Man 11 in front of Colin and he'll gobble it up, so that's a hypocritical statement. The lack of fresh new experiences is not a game industry specific issue. It's in books, music, and movies. Why are sports so popular when the only thing that changes are the athletes while the fundamental mechanics remain the same? We like to be entertained. Not everything has to feel brand new.

 

[Moneal]

Colins point was that more power doesn't make games better. Most games today can't live up to Super Mario World or SUper Mario Bros 3.

Power doesn't equal better stories or gameplay.

I don't get it, most of the people in this community whine about how wrong he is or whatever. So stop listening. Its simple. It seems most people don't like him from the way they speak in this thread. Jesus

The problem is that point has nothing to do with PS4Pro. Or his reasoning for liking the Scorpio, while lambasting Sony for doing the same thing just earlier.

Complaining about better stories and gameplay is all well and fine, if you are bashing devs for the games they are making. But to do so, while complaining about a console reveal just doesn't work. Its not the console's job to make better games.

Power doesn't equal better stories and gameplay, but it allows devs to create their stories and gameplay much closer to their original vision in many cases. His real beef seems to be with developers but he isn't attacking them, he's attacking the console maker.

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

Colins point was that more power doesn't make games better. Most games today can't live up to Super Mario World or SUper Mario Bros 3.

Power doesn't equal better stories or gameplay.

More power certainly doesn't make games worse or limit creativity or whatever it is he's trying to say. That's on developers to deliver, and having more options certainly shouldn't restrict them in any way. His argument about power and gameplay simply should have nothing to do with the Pro.

 

[Markoman]

Yeah, well put a 8bit Mega Man 11 in front of Colin and he'll gobble it up, so that's a hypocritical statement. The lack of fresh new experiences is not a game industry specific issue. It's in books, music, and movies. Why are sports so popular when the only thing that changes are the athletes while the fundamental mechanics remain the same? We like to be entertained. Not everything has to feel brand new.

Sorry brah, the sports analogy doesn't work one bit. The entertainment we get out of sports has various reasons: being fan of a specific club/star which has to do with traditions, social interaction and so on PLUS you can participate in sports...your famous sports stars age, new talents emerge. Your team goes up, goes down. A completely different dynamic...

Your last sentence is kinda funny in a thread about a guy complaining that tech is moving too fast and creativity not keeping up with it IN HIS OPINION.

To sum this up:
You're ok with buying a piece of hardware every 2/3 years from now on to play the same games just with better sugar coating.
Colin is not ok with this. The way he brings this accross tho is not optimal, but I fully agree with the underlying sentiment.

 

[Moneal]

Sorry brah, the sports analogy doesn't work one bit. The entertainment we get out of sports has various reasons: being fan of a specific club/star which has to do with traditions, social interaction and so on PLUS you can participate in sports...your famous sports stars age, new talents emerge. Your team goes up, goes down. A completely different dynamic...

Your last sentence is kinda funny in a thread about a guy complaining that tech is moving too fast and creativity not keeping up with it IN HIS OPINION.

To sum this up:
You're ok with buying a piece of hardware every 2/3 years from now on to play the same games just with better sugar coating.
Colin is not ok with this. The way he brings this accross tho is not optimal, but I fully agree with the underlying sentiment.

But he is ok with Scorpio.

 

[Mezoly]

But he is ok with Scorpio.

Scorpio is coming 4 years which better than 3 in his opnion.

 

[Markoman]

Scorpio is coming 4 years which better than 3 in his opnion.

This, and it looks like a substantial ugrade. A full 4K native console. But we'll see how he thinks about it once we know more about Scorpio. I don't get the impression that he's super hyped about it tho, for the same reasons see above, but at least he see's a reasonable improvement for the graphics whore crowd.

And, I don't agree with everything Colin says: I've bought a new PC this year and couldn't care less about Scorpio.

 

[family_guy]

Sorry brah, the sports analogy doesn't work one bit. The entertainment we get out of sports has various reasons: being fan of a specific club/star which has to do with traditions, social interaction and so on PLUS you can participate in sports...your famous sports stars age, new talents emerge. Your team goes up, goes down. A completely different dynamic...

Your last sentence is kinda funny in a thread about a guy complaining that tech is moving too fast and creativity not keeping up with it IN HIS OPINION.

To sum this up:
You're ok with buying a piece of hardware every 2/3 years from now on to play the same games just with better sugar coating.
Colin is not ok with this. The way he brings this accross tho is not optimal, but I fully agree with the underlying sentiment.

Not that different. What you described can also be experienced with online gaming and eSports. Regarding the last bolded, I think people are okay with that. Look at the number of requests to get old games ported/remastered. Even if new games are mechanically the same, the difference is what's displayed graphically. The extra power gives the artists the ability to do more. I like being able to experience new worlds even if it's the same gameplay from 10 years ago.

 

[imBask]

why is this thread turning to shit like the Giant Bomb one

why can't we just love eachothers

WHY

 

[xabbott]

But he is ok with Scorpio.

I think he said he was ok with Scorpio since it is going to be 4 years since XB1, they're losing, and its a "monumental leap" over the last console.

 

[killroy87]

why is this thread turning to shit like the Giant Bomb one

why can't we just love eachothers

WHY

This is the most active this thread has been in weeks, haha. At least it's interesting

 

[Servbot24]

But he is ok with Scorpio.

Scorpio is practically a new console platform. PS4 Pro is a marginal update. It's a notable difference.

 

[family_guy]

I think he said he was ok with Scorpio since it is going to be 4 years since XB1, they're losing, and its a "monumental leap" over the last console.

But as Colin said, games aren't really changing despite the extra power so why does Scorpio get a pass and not PS4Pro?