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[benny_a]

What typically happens with well know people is that they ignore the valid comments and focus on the ones that come across as shit posting so they dont have to tackle them.

Ain't that the truth. It's the easiest shield on a forum such as GAF. On twitter of course advanced tactics such as blocking is used.

 

[RoKKeR]

So the reason Scorpio is better is that it has 1.5-2 more TF than Neo and Scorpio's fragmentation of the userbase? IDK, it seems irrational to condemn neo but welcome scorpio.

A few counter-points.

1) Scorpio, taken within the context of the current Xbox One family, is likely going to offer a more compelling reason to upgrade than upgrading from a PS4 to a PS4 Pro. I touched on that here:

Scorpio... exists in a slightly different realm from Neo because it is going to offer one of those big, dramatic selling points – VR. The XBO is not VR compatible, and the Scorpio will surely be able to deliver high quality VR experiences.

So to me, compared to the existing XBO's power level and feature set, Scorpio is likely going to appear as a dramatic upgrade and step-up from the XBO. (while still existing within the XBO family, which does complicate things) I don't think Scorpio will cause substantial fragmentation – VR is going to be the primary differentiator between the two – because the games/accessories/OS/etc. will all remain the same. How long the XBO is supported remains to be seen of course.​

2) Within the Playstation family, in which the PS4 is already compatible with VR, the PS4 Pro seems like a much more marginal upgrade. Yes, it does offer graphical benefits for people who have 4K sets, HDTV sets, and VR headsets. But is there something there that makes your VR experience in particular so much better that warrants that upgrade? Considering they spent such a small amount of time on it, I'm not convinced.

I'm certainly not condemning Sony for this, but I think the raison d'etre for the PS4 Pro is fairly weak compared to the Scorpio taken in context with the respective console families, the release windows, etc.

 

[prwxv3]

greg don't own a 4k tv though :[ (i think they mentioned having one in the studio) haha

HDR will be noticeable on a 1080p device. Greg retweeted a comment that said that you could not see the difference when HDR was activated through a livestream.

Though that will be on ps4 vanilla as well.

 

[Darryl M R]

I'm confused how Playstation/Sony focusing on making the hardware more powerful takes away focus on creating better gaming experiences.

And would it not be possible that developers that are strictly on the PC will look at the PS4 Pro and Scorpio and think about bringing their talents to the console space?

I would argue that complacency is a larger issue for technology companies. You do not want to be reactive. You want to evolve. And it seems like the hosts at KF kept on echoing that consoles are not like phones that can be upgraded every year but my question to them is "Why not?"

Why can't Sony try something new and see how the market responds to more frequent console updates?

And the "changes" suggested by the KF hosts for a PS5 seems extremely boring and safe. I'm tired of hearing about backwards comparability. How does that improve gaming experiences? It is an experience you can already have. If you would argue that it could be an upscaled experience then you would have to acknowledge that the same positives you get from that would be true for what the PS4 Pro is offering.

 

[phanphare]

Hey guys, what'd you think of th...

LOL, keep doing you man

There's a lot of very valid criticism in the last few pages about what you said in the last PSILY and this is your response??

pretty solid response, I must say

 

[Morts]

HDR will be noticeable on a 1080p device. Greg retweeted a comment that said that you could not see the difference when HDR was activated through a livestream.

Though that will be on ps4 vanilla as well.

I'm pretty sure the TV has to support HDR, and almost no 1080p TVs do.

The HDR Firmware patch is for vanilla PS4s hooked up to 4k TVs.

The crew's disappointment seems to be that the Pro isn't for them, but I don't see why that equates to a mistake on Sony's part.

 

[10k]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4. Scorpio is far off. 4k hasn't hit enough households yet. No UHD screams rushed for holidays to me.

They should have just enjoyed the smooth ride the PS4 was having and released a scorpio like device that does native 4k for holiday 2018 that was backwards compatible with PS4.

 

[Darryl M R]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4. Scorpio is far off. 4k hasn't hit enough households yet. No UHD screams rushed for holidays to me.

They should have just enjoyed the smooth ride the PS4 was having and released a scorpio like device that does native 4k for holiday 2018 that was backwards compatible with PS4.

See to me this sounds like being complacent. Why wait to change until you have a problem? Why can't they predict a need for their developers to have more power and predict and start trends for the industry.

If 4k tvs are becoming more mainstream why wouldn't they want to get a console out to people and have developers work on providing 4k content?

I'm pretty sure the TV has to support HDR, and almost no 1080p TVs do.

The HDR Firmware patch is for vanilla PS4s hooked up to 4k TVs.

The crew's disappointment seems to be that the Pro isn't for them, but I don't see why that equates to a mistake on Sony's part.

This is my reaction to their episode.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

It's not so much that we don't need power, is more like power is just used to make things prettier, which I guess makes sense because you can market that, I would love non mentally challenged A.I. tho.

 

[Omnistalgic]

What typically happens with well know people is that they ignore the valid comments and focus on the ones that come across as shit posting so they dont have to tackle them. Colin might come back and explain his stance at some point on certain things but we shall see if he actually tackles the very valid points made against his 'how does this make games better?' point which many including myself have made good points against.

And the thing is that while some posts might come across as aggressive, i think its simply because its a one way conversation and when you have a well known and respected person coming out with arguments that are either baseless or simply foolish and then have your valid points passed off as hating or even worse you get 'well thats his opinion' it makes things seem even worse.

nah, Colin is a Sony fan and wants all these platforms to succeed. The reason he's likely upset is because he knew the PS audience watching wouldn't be impressed since no one is actually there. Im telling you once they talk to devs, have some interviews, see the games in person, and of course get a 4K HDR set in the house themselves, they will soften.

The people actually at the meeting are all impressed with it so far, but again, it's not necessary at all if you aren't impressed. Horizon is gonna look great on good ol' PS4, and really that should be the take away from all this.

I think the best thing Sony could have done was not make it a public event, or get a lot more games to run at higher frame rate, something that would translate well over the Internet.

Either way, I think it's gonna sell some units this holiday season.

 

[JoeNut]

Listened to the podcast for the first time today and damn, you guys did not enjoy the reveal lol

 

[Jonboy]

I love Greg and Colin to death. I actually disagreed pretty strongly with Colin from the beginning on Neo...but I think we have another #ColinWasRight moment. Sony has time to clear things up, but based on the conference alone...it does seem totally unnecessary for non-4k gamers. It causes confusion and was a complete unforced, self-inflicted error by Sony. They could have ridden out this lead a little longer.

That being said, now that news from the devs is starting to come out (Tomb Raider, Witness, etc.), we're starting to see that Sony may have significantly undersold the benefits to 1080p gamers during this conference.

One thing I would love to hear guys discuss - at length - is the benefits of an improved framerate, picture quality, resolution, effects, etc. Colin doesn't care about that stuff at all, but here's what I would challenge him with.

Let's take TLOU for example. It's my favorite game of all-time and I made that declaration after playing it on the PS3. That being said, now that I've played the remastered version on PS4, it's unequivocally a better experience and I can't go back to the PS3 version now. So does it make the game better? No. But does it make it a more enjoyable experience overall? 100% yes.

He often points out old games and how it didn't matter, which is true...it didn't matter because pixel art still looks beautiful today. But on games where realism is the focus, these improvements to framerate, resolution, effects, etc. can vastly improve the experience.

Another example I would point to is watching a VHS movie, a DVD, and a Blu-Ray. Sure it's the same movie and your favorites will still have the story in all 3 formats, but no one would argue that the experience is vastly superior on the Blu-ray.

nah, Colin is a Sony fan and wants all these platforms to succeed. The reason he's likely upset is because he knew the PS audience watching wouldn't be impressed since no one is actually there. Im telling you once they talk to devs, have some interviews, see the games in person, and of course get a 4K HDR set in the house themselves, they will soften.

The people actually at the meeting are all impressed with it so far, but again, it's not necessary at all if you aren't impressed. Horizon is gonna look great on good ol' PS4, and really that should be the take away from all this.

I think the best thing Sony could have done was not make it a public event, or get a lot more games to run at higher frame rate, something that would translate well over the Internet.

Either way, I think it's gonna sell some units this holiday season.

Yeah, it's funny how everyone is pretty much in agreement that the conference sucked, but people actually playing the games have lots of praise.

Hey guys, what'd you think of th...

Hahaha.

For the record, I agree with you 100% on trying to push devs to do more than just graphics. I remember as a kid imagining what games would not only look like when I got older, but what they would be able to do. I imagined worlds where you could go anywhere, open any door with no loading, AI improvements where enemies feel realistic, better stealth gameplay mechanics where guards don't suddenly forget my presence and go back to their standard routine, etc. There are so, so, so many areas of modern day games that could be improved and refined to give us better games...that arent' just a shiny coat of paint.

TLOU is a great example here as well. I think it's incredible and a masterpiece, but with more time and refinement, ND could make a better crafting system, improve the AI and stealth, etc.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

nah, Colin is a Sony fan and wants all these platforms to succeed. The reason he's likely upset is because he knew the PS audience watching wouldn't be impressed since no one is actually there. Im telling you once they talk to devs, have some interviews, see the games in person, and of course get a 4K HDR set in the house themselves, they will soften.

The people actually at the meeting are all impressed with it so far, but again, it's not necessary at all if you aren't impressed. Horizon is gonna look great on good ol' PS4, and really that should be the take away from all this.

I think the best thing Sony could have done was not make it a public event, or get a lot more games to run at higher frame rate, something that would translate well over the Internet.

Either way, I think it's gonna sell some units this holiday season.

Oh I don't doubt that Colin is a huge Sony fan and wants them to succeed, the problem is that increasingly he ends up being against something for reasons that either don't make sense or he is just not looking at the big picture.

His 'does this make games better?' argument is a prime example of this since its an argument that doesn't make sense. Sony aren't in control of 'making games better and tackling the issues of the industry ' like the point he brought up. They can only give more power to devs and make it easier to develop on the console which they have been and are continuing to do.

Making 'games better' is down to developers, they are the ones in charge of making games with unique ideas and new gameplay mechanics so blaming Sony is ridiculous. I mean adding more power just gives devs the ability to do more, if they decide to chase pretty graphics instead of new/refined gameplay that's up to them and not the platform holder.

He then brings up the tired old 'show me a game that you couldn't do on PS3/People never imagined TLOU on ps3' point when as others mentioned TLOU amazed people because of the graphics (in the context he Means), not some new gameplay mechanic.

It just comes across as a bunch of thoughts/ideas that aren't relevant to each other or are wrong and blame being assigned regardless.

Another point people bring up is that he is excited for vr as a new experience and that's true, but how does he expect a new version of an existing console (which we have always known the pro to be) to do something as radically different gameplay wise as a separate device? You could say 'but how will it help vr?' and that's obvious, it will give the ability for prettier graphics and framerates for vr games. Why that is a question at all is baffling since it wouldn't be anything else.

I want to state that this isn't anything against him as a person but when people are waving away valid criticisms and examples of poorly thought out opinions that someone with his experience shouldn't be making with 'its his opinion' and then at other times laud his knowledge and personal experience with the industry it becomes frustrating because this is a discussion board and if he is entitled to his opinion others are entitled to disagree (as long as it doesn't go into personal attacks of course).

 

[killroy87]

If Colin keeps asking "but how will it change videogames?", then the Wii should be his favorite console of all time. Nintendo offered up hardware that was truly new. Sure, the majority of the games on it were shit (just by pure numbers; Wii had a lot of incredible games), but again, that blame lies with developers, not with Nintendo.

 

[Curufinwe]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4.

Well that's completely false. Lots of people have been talking about the consoles being underpowered compared to the PC. And House specifically mentioned that the Pro is to address the issue of gamers who switch to PC mid-gen.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

Regarding the PlayStation 4 Pro, he suggested the Xbox wasn’t even being considered its main competition. Rather, it was the PC. “I saw some data that really influenced me,” he said. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

 

[Boke1879]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4. Scorpio is far off. 4k hasn't hit enough households yet. No UHD screams rushed for holidays to me.

They should have just enjoyed the smooth ride the PS4 was having and released a scorpio like device that does native 4k for holiday 2018 that was backwards compatible with PS4.

Based on this forum the PS4 and Xb1 needed more power. Lets not change the narrative.

And they will enjoy the smooth ride of the PS4 because the Pro is still a PS4 that will sell along with the $300 slim.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Based on this forum the PS4 and Xb1 needed more power. Lets not change the narrative.

And they will enjoy the smooth ride of the PS4 because the Pro is still a PS4 that will sell along with the $300 slim.

Yep, be it posters online or comments from devs there was often a narrative that kept popping up about the current consoles being underpowered. Hell, I have read many times "the Neo is what the ps4 should have been to start with".

But now some are changing the story to 'no one wanted a more powerful ps4'.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4. Scorpio is far off. 4k hasn't hit enough households yet. No UHD screams rushed for holidays to me.

They should have just enjoyed the smooth ride the PS4 was having and released a scorpio like device that does native 4k for holiday 2018 that was backwards compatible with PS4.

Why would Sony wait until Scorpio hits to make their own plans and enact them? Then they would really be reactionary and sitting on their hands.

Sony want this to really represent a mid gen refresh, cause that's what it is. I don't understand what is so hard for people to understand about it.

PS5 will come and you can have passed PS4K by, but the fact of the matter is that its an option for people. And just because Colin was against it when the rumors first came out without even seeing how it will be enacted just sounds dumb to me.

 

[10k]

Well that's completely false. Lots of people have been talking about the consoles being underpowered compared to the PC. And House specifically mentioned that the Pro is to address the issue of gamers who switch to PC mid-gen.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around

Based on this forum the PS4 and Xb1 needed more power. Lets not change the narrative.

And they will enjoy the smooth ride of the PS4 because the Pro is still a PS4 that will sell along with the $300 slim.

This forum of less than 100k active posters is not indicative of the mass market and it's desire for 4k content and 60fps.

Most don't even know wtf 4k is.

4k won't hit mainstream pricing for a few years at least. This was a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

They had "quite a few" third parties on board out of the thousands of third parties.

They should have focused more on the benefits of non-4k games since most people own 1080p sets.

 

[krae_man]

I'm content keeping my PS4 till it breaks, unfortunately I live in Canada and the dollar has taken a dive so the slim is only $20 cheaper then a launch PS4 and the Neo is $100 more expensive.

Not Sony's fault but a reality non the less(Sony pricing VR here at approx $50 greater then the exchange rate however is their fault).

The one thing I am surprised about however is Scorpio aside, why don't these new systems have more RAM?

Lots of cool things can be done cheaply with more RAM. Hell the PSP Go had more RAM and used it for the most amazing suspend and restore feature ever that still hasn't been replicated.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Oh I don't doubt that Colin is a huge Sony fan and wants them to succeed, the problem is that increasingly he ends up being against something for reasons that either don't make sense or he is just not looking at the big picture.

His 'does this make games better?' argument is a prime example of this since its an argument that doesn't make sense. Sony aren't in control of 'making games better and tackling the issues of the industry ' like the point he brought up. They can only give more power to devs and make it easier to develop on the console which they have been and are continuing to do.

Making 'games better' is down to developers, they are the ones in charge of making games with unique ideas and new gameplay mechanics so blaming Sony is ridiculous. I mean adding more power just gives devs the ability to do more, if they decide to chase pretty graphics instead of new/refined gameplay that's up to them and not the platform holder.

He then brings up the tired old 'show me a game that you couldn't do on PS3/People never imagined TLOU on ps3' point when as others mentioned TLOU amazed people because of the graphics (in the context he Means), not some new gameplay mechanic.

It just comes across as a bunch of thoughts/ideas that aren't relevant to each other or are wrong and blame being assigned regardless.

Another point people bring up is that he is excited for vr as a new experience and that's true, but how does he expect a new version of an existing console (which we have always known the pro to be) to do something as radically different gameplay wise as a separate device? You could say 'but how will it help vr?' and that's obvious, it will give the ability for prettier graphics and framerates for vr games. Why that is a question at all is baffling since it wouldn't be anything else.

I want to state that this isn't anything against him as a person but when people are waving away valid criticisms and examples of poorly thought out opinions that someone with his experience shouldn't be making with 'its his opinion' and then at other times laud his knowledge and personal experience with the industry it becomes frustrating because this is a discussion board and if he is entitled to his opinion others are entitled to disagree (as long as it doesn't go into personal attacks of course).

well said...

 

[Omnistalgic]

Nice little write-up from Verendus on Pro.

There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.

 

[gbland]

Hey guys, what'd you think of th...

oh heyyyy. Please come back in a month when everything is calmed down

 

[thuway]

Colin really should be asking - "How is Microsoft going to make the case for 1.8 - 2 more TF over PS4 Pro to the mainstream consumer?"

 

[EdReedFan20]

oh heyyyy. Please come back in a month when everything is calmed down

He posted a nice lengthy response over in the Kinda Funny OT over in community. I suggested he cross-post it over here. I'll use this as a reminder for everyone that MattyG created a wonderful thread over there and it's slowed down quite a bit. He's planning on rebooting the original post soon to keep it up to date with the ever evolving Kinda Funny. Come on over!

Kinda Funny Community Thread | The Fire Rises, Brother!

 

[Dirtyshubb]

He posted a nice lengthy response over in the Kinda Funny OT over in community. I suggested he cross-post it over here. I'll use this as a reminder for everyone that MattyG created a wonderful thread over there and it's slowed down quite a bit. He's planning on rebooting the original post soon to keep it up to date with the ever evolving Kinda Funny. Come on over!

Kinda Funny Community Thread | The Fire Rises, Brother!

This just ended up being exactly what i thought it would be, no real attempt at having a discussion (on a discussion board). Instead we get:

It's my opinion
I don't owe you anything
Sometimes people are wrong/contradict themselves
This isn't life or death, it's about VIDEO GAMES!
People who disagree are haters and just don't understand
I am successful at this
I have been doing it for years
I'm proud of myself

And that's it, not even an attempt to have some discourse over the points raised. Now Colin is right, he doesn't owe us anything but when repeatedly you have people making valid points about the DISCUSSION being had and the only time he shows up is to either put 'haters' in their place or just post a funny comment it just makes it clear that there isn't much point in actually trying to have an honest talk about the opinions brought up because he doesn't actually want to engage with anyone who disagrees with him and instead will brush it aside.

I mean, the fact he didn't post his response here and instead in the Kinda Funny thread feels like someone going to their safe space instead of going directly to 'the haters'.

Again, Colin doesn't owe anyone here anything but when you just show up to take praise and get easy wins against 'haters' and never bother to actually have a discussion on a subject that people are legitimately trying to have it just comes across rather poorly in my mind.

I think worst of all is that you have the old 'its just video games, you are taking it too seriously' Bullshit. Just because people here on this DISCUSSION BOARD want to DISCUSS aspects of the video game industry it doesn't mean we are taking it too seriously. We are fans of the industry and want to share our opinion with others, sound familiar Colin?

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

This just ended up being exactly what i thought it would be, no real attempt at having a discussion (on a discussion board). Instead we get:

It's my opinion
I don't owe you anything
Sometimes people are wrong/contradict themselves
This isn't life or death, it's about VIDEO GAMES!
People who disagree are haters and just don't understand
I am successful at this
I have been doing it for years
I'm proud of myself

And that's it, not even an attempt to have some discourse over the points raised. Now Colin is right, he doesn't owe us anything but when repeatedly you have people making valid points about the DISCUSSION being had and the only time he shows up is to either put 'haters' in their place or just post a funny comment it just males it clear that there isn't much point in actually trying to have an honest talk about the opinions brought up because he doesn't actually want to engage with anyone who disagrees with him and instead will brush it aside.

I mean, the fact he didn't post his response here and instead in the Kinda Funny thread feels like someone going to their safe space instead of going directly to 'the haters'.

Again, Colin doesn't owe anyone here anything but when you just show up to take praise and get easy wins against 'haters' and never bother to actually have a discussion on a subject that people are legitimately trying to have it just comes across rather poorly in my mind.

I think worst of all is that you have the old 'its just video games, you are taking it too seriously' Bullshit. Just because people here on this DISCUSSION BOARD want to DISCUSS aspects of the video game industry it doesn't mean we are taking it too seriously. We are fans of the industry and want to share our opinion with others, sound familiar Colin?

It seems you're upset. Most of what they do in terms of game discussion happens already here at NEOGAF. Except here, we have several journalists, technicians, programmers, developers etc., so - they don't give you any really extra gaming knowledge or news you don't already get her at neogaf. So it's entertainment. So if you don't like the entertainment being offered stop supporting them on patreon or elsewhere. If enough people do this, then well - I'm sure their interaction and their "we don't owe you anything" approach will change pretty quickly.

Don't know why really people who talk about video games into microphone causes so much contention. Don't want to play the 'it's not a big deal card, but it's really not.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

It seems you're upset. So if you don't like the product being offered stop supporting them on patreon. If a lot of people do this, very quickly will Colin's approach from "I don't owe anyone a response" mindset will change.

So really I don't see the what the big deal is either way. If you don't like their shit stop supporting them.

First of all I'm not upset, I know it might come across that way in text I'm simply pointing out what I think.

Secondly, overall I do enjoy their content so it's not like I hate everything they do but if there is a point I disagree with then sometimes I might want to discuss it with others here which is what the site is for.

Also if you think about it, disagreeing opinions are much more visible here when you know that the Kinda funny guys actually view us here than simply one less viewer on a show.

 

[pelican]

The crew's disappointment seems to be that the Pro isn't for them,

Until Sony send them a unit for coverage/unboxing.

*gratis naturally.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Until Sony send them a unit for coverage/unboxing.

*gratis naturally.

That youtube ad revenue. Can't ignore it!

 

[pelican]

Now Colin is right, he doesn't owe us anything

Awful attitude to display publicly.

If he did indeed say this then I hope people remember this when the site is promoting their business - donations, patreon, merchandise sales, event tickets, etc.

 

[pelican]

That youtube ad revenue. Can't ignore it!

Exactly, they hypocrisy of "games media".

 

[Some Nobody]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

 

[Forever Changes]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

Not sure why you think you'd get banned expanding on points about this :S

 

[Maximo]

Awful attitude to display publicly.

If he did indeed say this then I hope people remember this when the site is promoting their business - donations, patreon, merchandise sales, event tickets, etc.

And? He doesn't owe anyone anything I doubt the patreon is going to suffer from it, I don't agree with some things Colin says but im not demanding a response to them.

 

[ST2K]

it just makes it clear that there isn't much point in actually trying to have an honest talk about the opinions brought up because he doesn't actually want to engage with anyone who disagrees with him and instead will brush it aside.

We can discuss it without having to have Colin address/debate it. We can criticize his arguments without him responding. It doesn't mean the criticism is any more or less valid either way.

I'm a bit confused on why people expect him to wade into a GAF megathread on his free time to have a thoughtful discussion about anything, especially while some people are just taking potshots at him. I probably wouldn't, in his shoes.

 

[Jennipeg]

We can discuss it without having to have Colin address/debate it. We can criticize his arguments without him responding. It doesn't mean the criticism is any more or less valid either way.

I'm a bit confused on why people expect him to wade into a GAF megathread on his free time to have a thoughtful discussion about anything, especially while some people are just taking potshots at him. I probably wouldn't, in his shoes.

Yeah I think the valid points and proper discussion are being lost in the analysis of Colin's attitude/role in the industry etc. Which I think he was addressing in his post in the other thread.

I actually agree with a lot of what they say, if that was all Sony was going to do, it could have been a press release, and I think its valid to question whether the Pro needs to exist. The only thing I don't follow, is why the Scorpio is ok, when it seems to be doing what Colin feared the Neo would (splitting the user base, forcing people to upgrade). I don't expect him to address it here. I should write in to the podcast or tip on C&G Live, but i'm too shy to actually write in, I've never written in to any podcast before.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Just as a point of clarity, did they choose not to do a PS podcast this week until the Pro was announced?

 

[pastrami]

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

No, it couldn't have been a press release because then journalists couldn't have gotten hands on time with the Pro. Look at the articles Eurogamer is putting out, going in depth about their first hand experience with the Pro. Instead we have KFG basing their opinion on a stream.

I think the conference was low energy and pretty boring, but I would love to see first hand what PS4 Pro games look like on a 4K HDR TV.

And I'm certainly not going to make a judgement call on whether or not 4K/HDR is worth it based on a stream.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Yeah I think the valid points and proper discussion are being lost in the analysis of Colin's attitude/role in the industry etc. Which I think he was addressing in his post in the other thread.

I actually agree with a lot of what they say, if that was all Sony was going to do, it could have been a press release, and I think its valid to question whether the Pro needs to exist. The only thing I don't follow, is why the Scorpio is ok, when it seems to be doing what Colin feared the Neo would (splitting the user base, forcing people to upgrade). I don't expect him to address it here. I should write in to the podcast or tip on C&G Live, but i'm too shy to actually write in, I've never written in to any podcast before.

I plan on asking him that in a PSILY forum posts. but I’m pretty sure it’ll be flooded with Pro/Slim talk already, it should come up in there next podcast.

I don’t think he necessarily likes MS approach, but understands it because they are admitting they lost. But yeah, it doesn’t justify it just because they are in a different position. He’s way less critical on what MS is doing, but that might just be because it isn’t here yet lol.

 

[Darryl M R]

This just ended up being exactly what i thought it would be, no real attempt at having a discussion (on a discussion board). Instead we get:

It's my opinion
I don't owe you anything
Sometimes people are wrong/contradict themselves
This isn't life or death, it's about VIDEO GAMES!
People who disagree are haters and just don't understand
I am successful at this
I have been doing it for years
I'm proud of myself

And that's it, not even an attempt to have some discourse over the points raised. Now Colin is right, he doesn't owe us anything but when repeatedly you have people making valid points about the DISCUSSION being had and the only time he shows up is to either put 'haters' in their place or just post a funny comment it just makes it clear that there isn't much point in actually trying to have an honest talk about the opinions brought up because he doesn't actually want to engage with anyone who disagrees with him and instead will brush it aside.

I mean, the fact he didn't post his response here and instead in the Kinda Funny thread feels like someone going to their safe space instead of going directly to 'the haters'.

Again, Colin doesn't owe anyone here anything but when you just show up to take praise and get easy wins against 'haters' and never bother to actually have a discussion on a subject that people are legitimately trying to have it just comes across rather poorly in my mind.

I think worst of all is that you have the old 'its just video games, you are taking it too seriously' Bullshit. Just because people here on this DISCUSSION BOARD want to DISCUSS aspects of the video game industry it doesn't mean we are taking it too seriously. We are fans of the industry and want to share our opinion with others, sound familiar Colin?

Great post that really highlight the backwards mentality that him and other people in the industry have when confronting opposing opinions.

 

[RPGam3r]

The Pro seems like a response to a problem that never existed for Sony.

Nobody was asking for more power from their PS4. Scorpio is far off. 4k hasn't hit enough households yet. No UHD screams rushed for holidays to me.

They should have just enjoyed the smooth ride the PS4 was having and released a scorpio like device that does native 4k for holiday 2018 that was backwards compatible with PS4.

This is only partial truth. There are a large number of core gamers repeatedly complaining about frame rate issues or games falling short in terms of resolution. To say there is nobody asking for more powerful hardware on a console front is simply not true, as hardware is one way to make those things more possible on a more consistent basis.

 

[shinobi602]

Huh, Colin's constant complaints about "does it make games play better!?" baffle me. It was never...meant to make games "play" better. It's an interative upgrade so games look better. We've known this from the beginning.

And yet there's almost constant praise on Project Scorpio on the show. It's the same exact concept. Is he thinking that'll somehow change gameplay as well?

 

[Jennipeg]

I plan on asking him that in a PSILY forum posts. but I’m pretty sure it’ll be flooded with Pro/Slim talk already, it should come up in there next podcast.

I don’t think he necessarily likes MS approach, but understands it because they are admitting they lost. But yeah, it doesn’t justify it just because they are in a different position. He’s way less critical on what MS is doing, but that might just be because it isn’t here yet lol.

I can see that it is more necessary for MS from a business standpoint given their position. But surely early adopters of the XBox One are more likely to feel shafted than early adopters of PS4, because they are the ones that supported the less popular product from the get go. That was a big worry for Neo/Pro before we realised its not a big leap at all. Saying that I never thought the Neo was a big deal anyway.

I'll listen to the next episode and see if they bring it up.

Huh, Colin's constant complaints about "does it make games play better!?" baffle me. It was never...meant to make games "play" better. It's an interative upgrade so games look better. We've known this from the beginning.

And yet there's almost constant praise on Project Scorpio on the show. It's the same exact concept. Is he thinking that'll somehow change gameplay as well?

I'm glad its not just me lol. I feel like the only way I will understand this, is by listening to the Bombcast, Jeff will make it all clear for me.

 

[Markitron]

Huh, Colin's constant complaints about "does it make games play better!?" baffle me. It was never...meant to make games "play" better. It's an interative upgrade so games look better. We've known this from the beginning.

The extreme negative reactions really are head-scratchers. The Pro is exactly what the leaks said it was going to be, I don't know how anybody would be surprised by any of this.

 

[andythinkpad]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

If you really want this, you would build a PC. How is that going to make Sony any money? Is Sony not allowed make hardware money from gamers more than once every 5-6 year?

You are really being passive aggressive with the banning stuff.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

So I was listening to the CAGCast this week and the difference in tone was quite staggering and I generally found it to be a more reasonable discussion. And that mainly was the case for two reasons.

1. Cheapy has become a pretty big PC gamer recently so he understands Hardware really well now, and Shipwreck is an Engineer so he does as well.
2. They didn't hype it up as much in their hands for this meeting to be something they're not.

Their general feeling was I think the same as most people on this board. If you really care about Graphics and 60FPS, the PS4 Plus is great and you now have that option to upgrade.
If you don't, perfectly fine sticking with the regular PS4.
If you don't have a PS4 and are going to buy one, Get the Plus.

They of course had some criticisms but I didn't feel like they were shouting at the TV.

 

[Curufinwe]

This forum of less than 100k active posters is not indicative of the mass market and it's desire for 4k content and 60fps.

Most don't even know wtf 4k is.

4k won't hit mainstream pricing for a few years at least. This was a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

They had "quite a few" third parties on board out of the thousands of third parties.

They should have focused more on the benefits of non-4k games since most people own 1080p sets.

House's data about players migrating to PC didn't come from GAF.

 

[Curufinwe]

Eh. I'm still with Colin. For a lot of reasons, at least one of which is kinda combative and would almost certainly get me banned lol. At least the way I'd phrase it. But Greg made it for me in a way that is less so, and also another salient point IMO:

- This could have and should have been a press release. That conference sucked and if you think it didn't, unplug yourself from the system and understand that disappointment isn't a thing you should just get used to in your hobby so its blunted when it occurs.

- If I really wanted this, I'd build a PC. Greg said that, and he was right. But if I go into detail I'd definitely get banned so I'll leave that there.

But yeah, embracing the cell phone model is still nuts to me but you guys enjoy. I'll go ahead and wait out the PS5.

Journalists attended this event and got to see the PS4 Pro in action. They can't attend a press release.

A $400 console is very different to a gaming PC.

It's not the cellphone model. New cellphones come out every single year.

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

Mannnn, this was straight up ESPN hot take theater. The misinformation and straight up anger in this one about an OPTIONAL system was staggering. Colin even managed to get in one of his "anonymous sources" lines to top it off.

It bums me out that the crew that covers Playstation and covers them at the volume that they do all turned down the chance to see this first hand (when it was very obvious the least ideal way to see this was via stream) in order to provide immediate "takes" - and massively ill-informed ones at that.

The absolute worst a person should feel about this conference is indifference. It should either be "cool, my OG PS4 is good enough for me and nothing will change" or "cool, another option if I want a more powerful system."

A few things:
-Not sure at all what Colin was trying to hammer home about games not playing well or being interesting these days or whatever - but, a more powerful system in no restricts devs from creating "new" types of games or whatever he was trying to get at. If I have a choice between OG PS4 Tomb Raider or Tomb Raider in "Pro" mode with better framerate/graphics - I'd choose the latter every time because it's a more fun game. More power does not restrict creativity. His beef is with developers in this instance.

-The Xbox One S being compared to the Pro in the way they did was bad.

-Their complaints about the lack of support ...EVERY game from basically late September forward will have a "Pro" mode. Basically every major 1st party will support it for past games along with many major 3rd parties.

-Sony glossed this over as well, but 1080p TV's will see improvements going forward for games played on the Pro.

Like I said, their level of vitriol just isn't warranted for this situation. If they're 100% happy at the moment, nothing changes for them. This is an OPTION. And all of them saying they aren't buying a Pro are being hypocritical when we all know they will be getting Pro's for free from Playstation (that's not meant as a slight at all) and i'm fairly positive they'll prefer playing on the Pro over the OG/Slim versions.

Not wanting a Pro is completely fine, But hating on it makes about zero sense for a system that isn't mandatory AND they reduced the price for the system you think is still completely fine.