Support NeoGAF

[Icyflamez96]

I love it when people take jabs at other people's politic views in an argument that has absolutely nothing to do wotherwise that.

Oh wait. No I don't. I liked it a lot more when this thread only had a handful of posts. I'd love to raise awareness to the fact that both Tim and Greg, as mentioned, both agreed with Colin and yet everyone still continues taking personal shots at only him. I just don't understand lol.

The same reason why Tim is the main target of hate when it comes to youtube comments in videos where Greg and Colin are agreeing with him.

*looks at comments for this video*

woah the hate seemed to have shifted heavily to Colin. Last I saw it, most people were hating on Tim. My point still stands though. The answer to this question is a big

Spoiler

I D K

 

[Planet]

The thing is, Colin mainly criticised the PS4 Pro for doing nothing to make the games actually better, just prettier. And that is exactly what Sony wanted to achieve, and the only thing that makes sense to keep the PS4 family one. If the Pro made the games any better, people should be really furious, it is just the way it should be.

Also I disagree heartily with his rant that games nowadays achieve nothing that could not have been done the basically same for two generations. He probably forgot how limited the PS2 actually was from today's perspective. But then again he basically outed himself as a retro fan, saying NES had some of the greatest games of all times. That explains things.

 

[Suzzopher]

I wasn't so much attacking a person's policitical stance as I was having a pop at how Colin was handling the message of the Pro so terribly. Personal opinion is one thing but when you have a platform that looks to you as the voice of PlayStation you can't spread misinformation or personal opinion as fact.

The reason I am taking Colin to task over this is that he shouts about how he knows more about PlayStation than anyone, which makes his little tantrum all the more embarrassing.

 

[Darryl M R]

To me Sony timing seems great. Next E3 (2017) they can easily hint at another refresh or PS5 for 2018. Well now people will have to decide do I go for the more powerful Scorpio in the short term or wait possibly a year for the PS5.

MS wouldn't announce another console [refresh] in 2017 when Scorpio isn't even released. Also in the end I think the console exclusives will make the biggest deal and with MS now having mostly all their exclusives on the PC people may be even less likely to want to own a Xbox. Sony is trying to keep people from switching over to PC by having a more powerful console. But for MS why are they having a more powerful console? Just for power? That's fair enough in my opinion, but they also have another option that includes gaming on PC.

I wasn't so much attacking a person's policitical stance as I was having a pop at how Colin was handling the message of the Pro so terribly. Personal opinion is one thing but when you have a platform that looks to you as the voice of PlayStation you can't spread misinformation or personal opinion as fact.

Spoiler

I thought it was funny

 

[pelican]

The reason I am taking Colin to task over this is that he shouts about how he knows more about PlayStation than anyone.

Does he actually believe that?

That bravado might impress the kids, but for the adults among us less so.

 

[get2sammyb]

I listened to the podcast earlier in the week. I definitely think the guys made some interesting points. I actually completely agree with Colin that game development has stagnated and we're getting prettier versions of games that we've already played. The flaw in his argument is that PlayStation 5, PlayStation 6, or PlayStation 7 won't change that any more than the PS4 Pro, so I'm not entirely sure why he took the new console to task over that... It's an industry problem, really.

Sony definitely did do a poor job with the press conference, and I think they're right to take them to task for not being clear enough about the advantages of the PS4 Pro. However, I'm torn a little bit, because while it's definitely on Sony to communicate properly, I feel like these guys have a duty to do at least a little bit of research so that they understand exactly what they're talking about -- if only to have an informed opinion on it.

This podcast was clearly filled to the brim with misinformation and, subsequently, misplaced outrage. A portion of the blame can certainly be levelled at Sony for that, but I really think that when you're speaking to such a large audience about such an important topic, you should make sure you have a grasp on the basic facts, too.

I know they wanted to get the reaction podcast up quickly, and that's fine, but they probably should have waited to digest a little more information, as, honestly, a lot of this 'cast is flat-out factually wrong.

Oh well. It happens sometimes. I'm sure they'll have more to say about the system as more information is made available, and Sony will surely be learning from the confusion to ensure that it puts out a clearer message in the lead-up to launch.

It was always going to be a difficult console to show and explain, but they'll get there.

 

[Darryl M R]

Does he actually believe that?

That bravado might impress the kids, but for the adults among us less so.

I've only started tuning into PS ILY and KF less than a year but from I've listened to I do recall him referring to himself as one of the most knowledgable person regarding the PS brand. He normally follows up this line or implication with reference to his sources within industry. Idk. I took his word for it and assumed he was/is very knowledgable of PS, so I hold him to a high standard when I hear him talking about the PS4 Pro.

If I heard PewdiePie ragging on the PS4 Pro and he said something incorrect I would understand his error because he doesn't claim to be in the know with PS.

 

[Servbot24]

Obviously Colin knows more about PS than the large majority of people in the world as well most people on GAF. He's been covering PS as a full time job for many years now. If he thinks that Pro is a mistake and Scorpio is a good idea, that's perfectly valid. Saying that Pro = Scorpio so if you like one you are required to like both is clearly ludicrous.

However his rant about Pro not introducing a revolutionary new form of gameplay was completely off the wall and ridiculous. Almost cringeworthy in how random and off base it was.

 

[pelican]

for devs not being creative. Which has nothing to do with the console. .

Anyone else find it amusing to find someone releasing videos on YT criticising others for not being creative? You seriously couldn't write this stuff.

Games media reminds me of the project team member who is quick to highlight problems, but unable to bring the solutions. Hot air/full of bluster, but in the long term forgettable.

"be more creative"

OK, how?

 

[jdmonmou]

To me Sony timing seems great. Next E3 (2017) they can easily hint at another refresh or PS5 for 2018. Well now people will have to decide do I go for the more powerful Scorpio in the short term or wait possibly a year for the PS5.

MS wouldn't announce another console [refresh] in 2017 when Scorpio isn't even released. Also in the end I think the console exclusives will make the biggest deal and with MS now having mostly all their exclusives on the PC people may be even less likely to want to own a Xbox. Sony is trying to keep people from switching over to PC by having a more powerful console. But for MS why are they having a more powerful console? Just for power? That's fair enough in my opinion, but they also have another option that includes gaming on PC

I believe Microsoft is stealthily pushing forward to the next gen with Scorpio. Colin was right when he said that Scorpio is an admission from Microsoft that they lost with the Xbox One. "Beyond generations" and "no gamer left behind" is just spin from MS so they don't further deflate Xbox One sales until Scorpio is released and piss off current Xbox One customers.

I think Sony's timing is off with the Pro. PS4 is doing just fine and steadily picking up steam. If Sony knew what MS was planning I think they would've not released PS4 pro this year. Now Sony will have to release a new console in 2018 to better compete with the Scorpio. Too many console releases in such a short period of time will frustrate customers and developers.

 

[pelican]

Obviously Colin knows more about PS than the large majority of people in the world as well most people on GAF. He's been covering PS as a full time job for many years now.

I know I am now being quite snarky, but we are talking about IGN.

I've never understood the assumption of working on a games site = expertise/knowledge. I've always believed that the ones with the real talent and an eye for design move into actual development roles.

 

[Servbot24]

I know I am now being quite snarky, but we are talking about IGN.

I've never understood the assumption of working on a games site = expertise/knowledge. I've always believed that the ones with the real talent and an eye for design move into actual development roles.

You may not care for IGN, but nevertheless the job consists of researching PS and reaching out to insider contacts all day. That counts for a lot even if you don't like the resulting output.

 

[Wagram]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

 

[Moneal]

I believe Microsoft is stealthily pushing forward to the next gen with Scorpio. Colin was right when he said that Scorpio is an admission from Microsoft that they lost with the Xbox One. "Beyond generations" and "no gamer left behind" is just spin from MS so they don't further deflate Xbox One sales until Scorpio is released and piss off current Xbox One customers.

I think Sony's timing is off with the Pro. PS4 is doing just fine and steadily picking up steam. If Sony knew what MS was planning I think they would've not released PS4 pro this year. Now Sony will have to release a new console in 2018 to better compete with the Scorpio. Too many console releases in such a short period of time will frustrate customers and developers.

I know MS this gen has been about 180s, but the fallout, from them changing to Scorpio being a new gen and leaving Xbox one behind, would be similar to the original xbox one announcement. Not because its a bad idea, but because they are going to spend a whole year and a half preaching that no one is getting left behind with an original xbox one or a one s. To just saying well its better this way. That type of lying just wont fly.

 

[killroy87]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

I mean...does anyone argue that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic?

Sonic might be more recognizable as a household name, but the last 15 years has tarnished his legacy by a massive amount

 

[family_guy]

Obviously Colin knows more about PS than the large majority of people in the world as well most people on GAF. He's been covering PS as a full time job for many years now.

Just because it's your job, doesn't make you an expert. Look at any workplace ever. Not saying he's not good at what he does, but there's people who have been following Playstation since they were kids on the PS1. Just because they aren't paid to do so doesn't make them less knowledgeable.

 

[imBask]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

?

I mean it does and it's not even remotely close

 

[diaspora]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

Sonic is probably more recognizable but... Megaman does have a better legacy than Sonic.

 

[names2hard4you]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

I didn't want to say anything but... Sorry to break it to you, most folks on here will tell you he's right. Myself included.

 

[jdmonmou]

However his rant about Pro not introducing a revolutionary new form of gameplay was completely off the wall and ridiculous. Almost cringeworthy in how random and off base it was.

I think his point was that there is still a lot more developers can do with just the original PS4. Amazing games like The Last of Us and GTA 5 were coming out at the end of last gen. So when Sony says we've pretty much maxed out what we can do with 1080p on the PS4, I don't really believe them.

Colin, like a lot of other people, are just irritated that Sony is trying to sell console hardware on a more frequent basis. If Sony is really trying to improve the PlayStation 4 brand, they'd be better off using the money they spent developing the Pro for developing some new 1st party exclusive titles.

 

[niahbvgpq]

The whole lot of them are embarrassingly ignorant, Collin is just the loudest.

exactly this. I showed them to my collegues researchers in game studies and we laughed at their ignorance. They really are clueless

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

Gaf doesn't like sonic wrong place.

 

[Wagram]

I didn't want to say anything but... Sorry to break it to you, most folks on here will tell you he's right. Myself included.

If Megaman was so fantastic then the series wouldn't be considered dead and an afterthought. Sonic has had a rough history in the last 15 years, but the average person on the street wouldn't have a fucking clue who Megaman is, but they would know Sonic. Says a lot when shitty Sonic still sells and great Megaman is on life support. What a fantastic legacy.

 

[EmiPrime]

We've known what PS4 Pro will do for 1080p games, the possible upgrades to old games and the exact specs for about 3 months now. They could have watched the PS Meeting on mute and still understood exactly what was being sold and how powerful the machine is in relation to the PS4 and the Xbox One. It's not "hating" to say that an enthusiast podcast has to get these things right instead of spreading bollocks.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Didn't know the PS4 Pro could cause so much discussion!

Turns out it's a slightly more powered console iteration that'll allow for better effects and higher resolution.

 

[Moneal]

I think his point was that there is still a lot more developers can do with just the original PS4. Amazing games like The Last of Us and GTA 5 were coming out at the end of last gen. So when Sony says we've pretty much maxed out what we can do with 1080p on the PS4, I don't really believe them.

Colin, like a lot of other people, are just irritated that Sony is trying to sell console hardware on a more frequent basis. If Sony is really trying to improve the PlayStation 4 brand, they'd be better off using the money they spent developing the Pro for developing some new 1st party exclusive titles.

A big part of the jump from the beginning of the gen to the end was that both were quite different from PC architecturally. This gen they are quite similar to PC architecture. There just isn't as much power not being used efficiently because devs are already familiar with how they work. We aren't going to see the jump near as much as we did with PS3 and the cell.

 

[jdmonmou]

I know MS this gen has been about 180s, but the fallout, from them changing to Scorpio being a new gen and leaving Xbox one behind, would be similar to the original xbox one announcement. Not because its a bad idea, but because they are going to spend a whole year and a half preaching that no one is getting left behind with an original xbox one or a one s. To just saying well its better this way. That type of lying just wont fly.

MS is already retracting and clarifying its messages from E3. They did a stealth clarification on Play Anywhere by saying only the games from E3 would be part of the program when many were led to believe otherwise. Also, they recently said VR games would be exclusive to Scorpio by giving the rationale that VR games are not console games. That's to justify their promise of no Scorpio exclusives. It makes sense that VR games are exclusive, but MS needs to be more upfront about its plans so people don't feel deceived. There will be bad PR for MS when the first Scorpio exclusive is released or when Xbox One support is dropped altogether.

 

[ShirAhava]

I'll never forget when Colin said that Megaman has a better legacy than Sonic. Damn near spit by water out from laughter.

That sounds crazy to me.....other than the megaman legends series..MM games are overrated as hell and as far as legacy

Sonic >>>>>>>> Klonoa >>>>>>>>> Crash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mega Man >>> Cool Spot

 

[Blackthorn]

I've listened to Colin and Greg since Beyond first started (I know, Colin wasn't there at first) so I have immense respect for them and their commentary on games, but their lack of technical knowledge really showed this episode and it was the only time I can remember having to stop halfway out of embarrassment.

Yes, it is Sony's fault for not managing to communicate the PS4 Pro to people with less technical knowledge, but the details on what the PS4 Pro does has been out for months and just reading a Digital Foundry article would have them fully informed. Nothing about the Pro was surprising and I felt so confused listening to their reactions, it felt like we'd watched two different conferences.

I feel like they should've had a guest on that knows about the technical side of things, though I can't think of who that would be in their circle. I know they're technically not journalists anymore and so on, but that doesn't give them a free pass to say things that simply aren't true with no factchecking (which has been available for months), especially when they have an audience that relies on their coverage.

Still a fan, but I'm hoping for more professionalism the next time there's a hardware reveal. And I recommend Digital Foundry's coverage if someone wants detailed, accurate info from people who actually attended the event.

 

[ANDS]

The thing is, Colin mainly criticised the PS4 Pro for doing nothing to make the games actually better, just prettier. And that is exactly what Sony wanted to achieve, and the only thing that makes sense to keep the PS4 family one. If the Pro made the games any better, people should be really furious, it is just the way it should be.

If the games perform better how does that make the games "better." The games aren't just going to be prettier, their performance will be better.

I think his point was that there is still a lot more developers can do with just the original PS4. Amazing games like The Last of Us and GTA 5 were coming out at the end of last gen. So when Sony says we've pretty much maxed out what we can do with 1080p on the PS4, I don't really believe them.

They didn't say this. They didn't even HINT at this.

Colin, like a lot of other people, are just irritated that Sony is trying to sell console hardware on a more frequent basis. If Sony is really trying to improve the PlayStation 4 brand, they'd be better off using the money they spent developing the Pro for developing some new 1st party exclusive titles.

They are a HARDWARE company? What? How is this even a legitimate complaint? Three years after the PS4 launch and they have a refresh along with a premium model and they're all of a sudden over-saturating the market? Huh?

 

[LifEndz]

The whole lot of them are embarrassingly ignorant, Collin is just the loudest.

Pretty much this.

 

[jdmonmou]

A big part of the jump from the beginning of the gen to the end was that both were quite different from PC architecturally. This gen they are quite similar to PC architecture. There just isn't as much power not being used efficiently because devs are already familiar with how they work. We aren't going to see the jump near as much as we did with PS3 and the cell.

Good point. But there are more innovations to be had besides graphical power on current consoles (e.g. Better stories, better gameplay mechanics, new IP, etc.).

What drives the point home to me that the PS4 Pro is unnecessary is that there won't be any exclusives for it. PS4 pro titles aren't even allowed to have exclusive gameplay features to keep parity with the original PS4. So the PS4 is capable of running the latest games.

Watching Sony's press conference last week, I got the feeling that they were really trying to sell me a 4K HDR Sony Bravia TV. Marketing display technology as the main reason to buy a console is a mistake. It should not be the main reason why people need to buy your console. The strongest and most compelling reason is exclusive games. That's why I'm not upgrading to a Pro. I'll wait until they come out with the PS5.

 

[paulogy]

I've thought about this a bit more over the last few days.

Sony needed to do two (somewhat opposing) things with their official reveal of the PS4 Pro:
1) Convince people that this new console might be for them - ie. show how much better it is
2) Not alienate all the existing people who already own PS4s - ie. don't say it's that much better

A tricky balance, for sure, and this is basically what they did. They showed the new features, they emphasized 4K, but they didn't spend too much time on the HDTV or PSVR boosts (in part because those aspects are left up to devs to decide anyway)

So all awkwardness of the presentation aside, the net seems to be that some folks who are venturing in to 4K are interested in the Pro, others that do not have a PS4 yet might want the Slim but pay the extra $100 to go Pro anyway, and the remaining folks that have PS4s already don't really feel compelled to upgrade.

Folks are saying this was a "bad week" for PlayStation, and I'm sure Sony would rather have gained more excitement for Pro in general, but the fact that they didn't (as far as I can tell) alienate their 43M PS4 install base is a huge win.

 

[EmiPrime]

Good point. But there are more innovations to be had besides graphical power on current consoles (e.g. Better stories, better gameplay mechanics, new IP, etc.).

What drives the point home to me that the PS4 Pro is unnecessary is that there won't be any exclusives for it. PS4 pro titles aren't even allowed to have exclusive gameplay features to keep parity with the original PS4. So the PS4 is capable of running the latest games.

Watching Sony's press conference last week, I got the feeling that they were really trying to sell me a 4K HDR Sony Bravia TV. Marketing display technology as the main reason to buy a console is a mistake. It should not be the main reason why people need to buy your console. The strongest and most compelling reason is exclusive games. That's why I'm not upgrading to a Pro. I'll wait until they come out with the PS5.

Sony specifically mentioned the benefits for 1080p TV owners and PSVR as 2 out of the 4 selling points so it's not all about selling 4K TVs.

You are confusing unnecessary with unessential. For those who want it, it's an inexpensive upgrade (it's only going to cost me £100). Those who are happy with their existing console are not bent out of shape. It's shouldn't upset anybody.

 

[Darryl M R]

Did Sony release their conference video? I would like to rewatch it not on the stream version to fact check some stuff

 

[jdmonmou]

They didn't say this. They didn't even HINT at this.



They are a HARDWARE company? What? How is this even a legitimate complaint? Three years after the PS4 launch and they have a refresh along with a premium model and they're all of a sudden over-saturating the market? Huh?

Andrew House did say that they have maxed out what can be done with
1080p. You need to watch the conference again and listen carefully.

Also, even though Sony is a hardware company they do take a risk with each new console release. The risk is that they may not hit their expected sales targets to recoup the cost of developing the Pro and make profit. Also, I would argue it could harm early sales of the PS5 if customers are fatigued with yet another console release from Sony.

 

[jayu26]

I've thought about this a bit more over the last few days.

Sony needed to do two things with their official reveal of the PS4 Pro:
1) Convince people that this new console might be for them - ie. show how much better it is
2) Not alienate all the existing people who already own PS4s - ie. don't say it's that much better

And this is basically what they did. They showed the new features, they emphasized 4K, but they didn't spend too much time on the HDTV or PSVR boosts (in part because those aspects are left up to devs to decide anyway)

So all awkwardness of the presentation aside, the net seems to be that some folks who are venturing in to 4K are interested in the Pro, others that do not have a PS4 yet might want the Slim but pay the extra $100 to go Pro anyway, and the remaining folks that have PS4s already don't really feel compelled to upgrade.

Folks are saying this was a "bad week" for PlayStation, and I'm sure Sony would rather have gained more excitement for Pro in general, but the fact that they didn't really alienate their 43M install base is a huge win.

Exactly. Sony doesn't care if you buy slim or pro this holiday season as long as you buy one of those. In fact slim might have higher profit margin. Pro is there to gauge the appetite for iterative consoles in the market. They very deliberately kept the whole thing low key. Hell, they didn't even announce the meeting to the general public until the day before the meeting.

 

[pelican]

You may not care for IGN, but nevertheless the job consists of researching PS and reaching out to insider contacts all day. That counts for a lot even if you don't like the resulting output.

I think you give IGN too much credit.

It isn't an epitome of high quality investigative journalism.

 

[killroy87]

I love it when people take jabs at other people's politic views in an argument that has absolutely nothing to do wotherwise that.

Oh wait. No I don't. I liked it a lot more when this thread only had a handful of posts. I'd love to raise awareness to the fact that both Tim and Greg, as mentioned, both agreed with Colin and yet everyone still continues taking personal shots at only him. I just don't understand lol.

Because both Greg and Tim (other than Tim's weird percentages point that made no sense) represented the same opinion in a much more fair, well-reasoned approach.

Again, it's notColin's opinions that tend to rub me the wrong way, it's that he yells them so declaratively while mixing in so much misinformation that I tend to finish every segment thinking...

I mean, there's nothing wrong with what they're doing, and at the end of the day I certainly don't lose sleep over what they're saying. They're doing their thing, that's great, and I generally enjoy it (I even support on Patreon). I don't expect each of them to have encyclopedic knowledge of the industry, but it just makes it stand out more when they go so hard on something without taking everything into consideration.

 

[jdmonmou]

Sony specifically mentioned the benefits for 1080p TV owners and PSVR as 2 out of the 4 selling points so it's not all about selling 4K TVs.

You are confusing unnecessary with unessential. For those who want it, it's an inexpensive upgrade (it's only going to cost me £100). Those who are happy with their existing console are not bent out of shape. It's shouldn't upset anybody.

I'm thinking from the perspective of will the PS4 pro add or subtract from Sony's bottom line. How much will the Pro help Sony to sell an additional 20 million PS4 consoles by 2018? My argument is that most people will not see the need to get a Pro and that the console will flop because 4K is the selling point. Sony only briefly mentioned the benefits for those with 1080p TVs and most were hoping that they would get all games released with 1080p 60 FPS. That was not guaranteed and they said that multiplayer games would remain at 30 FPS. Most people that don't plan on getting a 4K TV anytime soon did not see a reason to get a Pro.

 

[pelican]

The whole lot of them are embarrassingly ignorant, Collin is just the loudest.

An astute observation.

His rant in the current reveal episode is cringe inducing.

Him referencing another games media member as a barometer for developers feelings was a true eye rolling moment.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I'm thinking from the perspective of will the PS4 pro add or subtract from Sony's bottom line. How much will the Pro help Sony to sell an additional 20 million PS4 consoles by 2018? My argument is that most people will not see the need to get a Pro and that the console will flop because 4K is the selling point. Sony only briefly mentioned the benefits for those with 1080p TVs and most were hoping that they would get all games released with 1080p 60 FPS. That was not guaranteed and they said that multiplayer games would remain at 30 FPS. Most people that don't plan on getting a 4K TV anytime soon did not see a reason to get a Pro.

Im not getting a 4k tv I'm getting the pro just for the sake it's a better ps4 at an affordable price. The meeting wasn't mainly for original ps4 owners to upgrade it was also for others who don't have one to be able to jump in with either the cheaper slim or the more powerful pro which is at the same msrp as the og ps4. Of course the main benefit is 4k it's the same case for Scorpio but that doesn't means others won't see a value in it

 

[jdmonmou]

Im not getting a 4k tv I'm getting the pro just for the sake it's a better ps4 at an affordable price. The meeting wasn't mainly for original ps4 owners to upgrade it was also for others who don't have one to be able to jump in with either the cheaper slim or the more powerful pro which is at the same msrp as the og ps4. Of course the main benefit is 4k it's the same case for Scorpio but that doesn't means others won't see a value in it

It'll be interesting to see PS4 Pro and PS4 slim sales figures compared a year from now. My bet is most will prefer the PS4 slim and will use that extra $100 to buy an extra controller or game. We'll see.

 

[EmiPrime]

I'm thinking from the perspective of will the PS4 pro add or subtract from Sony's bottom line. How much will the Pro help Sony to sell an additional 20 million PS4 consoles by 2018? My argument is that most people will not see the need to get a Pro and that the console will flop because 4K is the selling point. Sony only briefly mentioned the benefits for those with 1080p TVs and most were hoping that they would get all games released with 1080p 60 FPS. That was not guaranteed and they said that multiplayer games would remain at 30 FPS. Most people that don't plan on getting a 4K TV anytime soon did not see a reason to get a Pro.

I think it will do extremely well in Europe with sales coming from upgraders and new owners who get up-sold because the price difference between it and the PS4 slim isn't that big.

The machine is still 2 months away. We'll be hearing a lot more about the 1080p benefits between now and release. PS Meeting was just the beginning.

 

[Moneal]

Good point. But there are more innovations to be had besides graphical power on current consoles (e.g. Better stories, better gameplay mechanics, new IP, etc.).

What drives the point home to me that the PS4 Pro is unnecessary is that there won't be any exclusives for it. PS4 pro titles aren't even allowed to have exclusive gameplay features to keep parity with the original PS4. So the PS4 is capable of running the latest games.

Watching Sony's press conference last week, I got the feeling that they were really trying to sell me a 4K HDR Sony Bravia TV. Marketing display technology as the main reason to buy a console is a mistake. It should not be the main reason why people need to buy your console. The strongest and most compelling reason is exclusive games. That's why I'm not upgrading to a Pro. I'll wait until they come out with the PS5.

PS4 Pro is to keep people buying their games for a Playstation console as the gen gets farther in its life span. House has said that is exactly the reason for the Pro. He mentioned that they saw a trend with later titles being bought on PC over PS3, mainly due to the upgraded performance and graphics that PC brought to the table over the 7 year old PS3.

How is this not allowing for those enhancements? Storytelling is not hindered by the PS4 Pro existing. Neither are New IPs. Gameplay mechanics are not hindered either. That part of his rant has nothing to do with consoles.

While It may be the main reason that you buy a console, we have seen that its not the reason most do. All of the games that sell the most on both consoles are Multi-plats.

Yes they were marketing their TVs. How is it a mistake to show off amazing looking games like Horizon on a 4K TV? Console upgrades have always been about how much better the games looked compared to their predecessors. SNES looked better than NES, because the SNES was more powerful. It also allowed for gameplay and story improvements. This was not because it changed how games were played, but because it was more powerful. Devs could do more. Its been that way with every console.

You may be waiting a while for the PS5. Its probably not coming until 2019 or 2020.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

If Megaman was so fantastic then the series wouldn't be considered dead and an afterthought. Sonic has had a rough history in the last 15 years, but the average person on the street wouldn't have a fucking clue who Megaman is, but they would know Sonic. Says a lot when shitty Sonic still sells and great Megaman is on life support. What a fantastic legacy.

Well if you're going off recognition alone then congrats u win. Thing is, most MM games are pretty much timeless treasures whilst Sonic has had so many trash games in comparison. Oh and the Sonic internet community is pretty much cringeworthy repulsive non-recyclable garbage

 

[H.Cornerstone]

You may not care for IGN, but nevertheless the job consists of researching PS and reaching out to insider contacts all day. That counts for a lot even if you don't like the resulting output.

I think it's quite clear that even though they all worked at IGN, they know absolutely nothing about hardware and what it means. (Tim worked in Video).

Anyone on NEOGaf who has built their own PC knows more about that than they do.

One thing not many have picked up on, but is a strong point that Verendus mentioned. Developers are already having trouble releasing a lot of content this generation in the AAA space. It’s just taking longer for the quality to get there with games, as we’ve seen by the constant delays. Refreshing 3 years in, is truly a mid-gen refresh. The extra boost in power might help some devs working on ambitious projects, and of course it is future proofing for the increase in TV resolutions. Xbox next is coming earliest “Holiday 2017”. That is really starting to creep towards the tail end of this generation. By the time MS’s first party devs really do something amazing on Scorpio, guess what will be around the corner?

I dunno, I’m not buying Scorpio next year is going to do much of anything to swing momentum. Sony’s best looking games will be releasing by then. Stuff like Horizon, GTS, maybe even God of War or Days Gone, and that’s going against first gen Scorpio games. If MS changes too much (CPU&GPU) the learning curve will be even higher, and some devs will simply ignore exploiting it’s potential because of the larger user base from PS4, unless it comes out and sells 5 million units in 2 months.

I think the only misstep Sony took was communication. PS4Pro is good timing, good value, a black friday, and Holiday all to itself and a full year of being the most powerful console experience on the market. It smells like PS2.0 to me...

we’ll see...

This is a good point that may be being missed. it's not Secret that the OG Xbone and PS4 were underpowered to be truly next gen from the PS3/360 era. Hopefully this gets us in that direction.

 

[sense]

I've thought about this a bit more over the last few days.

Sony needed to do two (somewhat opposing) things with their official reveal of the PS4 Pro:
1) Convince people that this new console might be for them - ie. show how much better it is
2) Not alienate all the existing people who already own PS4s - ie. don't say it's that much better

A tricky balance, for sure, and this is basically what they did. They showed the new features, they emphasized 4K, but they didn't spend too much time on the HDTV or PSVR boosts (in part because those aspects are left up to devs to decide anyway)

So all awkwardness of the presentation aside, the net seems to be that some folks who are venturing in to 4K are interested in the Pro, others that do not have a PS4 yet might want the Slim but pay the extra $100 to go Pro anyway, and the remaining folks that have PS4s already don't really feel compelled to upgrade.

Folks are saying this was a "bad week" for PlayStation, and I'm sure Sony would rather have gained more excitement for Pro in general, but the fact that they didn't (as far as I can tell) alienate their 43M PS4 install base is a huge win.

Well said. I was going to make a similar post

I would also add that they probably also didn't want to take the shine away from psvr considering their investment and third party games coming in October during launch. They also downplayed the importance of pro for psvr because they didn't want people thinking they are going to NEED a ps pro to enjoy vr and stop people from cancelling their pre orders.

It was a very weird and underwhelming presentation. To be fair Sony never really hyped up the neo/pro until the reveal. They always maintained that it is still a ps4 that will make the games look and play better. Even the ps meeting was so low key, where they sent out the invites to just the media but never really hyped up the meeting or posted any videos or details. All we got was a message on the blog to tune in the day before. They were walking a tight rope to not piss off current ps4 owners and potential psvr owners and making the ps pro look like a must have console. They will let the games, devs and gamers sell the ps4 pro. They can wait till ms starts the marketing hype next year for Scorpio before they start hyping up the ps4 pro.

Colin can say what he wants but the goal for Sony was to have a product at the 399 price point this holiday and they are going to be laughing all the way to the bank after they exhaust their hardcore audience for the first year and then they start packing in God of war, spider-man, Star Wars, destiny 2 etc.. with ps4 pro holiday 2017. They can still announce and release a ps5 with forwards and backwards compatibility in 2018 if they choose to.

 

[mckmas8808]

The Scorpio is basically right on target with the annual power increase in the silicon industry.

If you take PS4 as the baseline, and assume a 31-32% yearly power increase due to the advancements of technology, you get exactly the power output of the PS4 Pro after 3 years

PS4 1.84 Teraflops * 1.32^3 = 4.23 Teraflops

Now if you add one more year to it you get 5.59 Teraflops which is right inline with the output of the Scorpio. So it basically bolt down to do you want to release a refresh model after 3 years or after 4 years. If Sony target the release to 2017, they can easily archive 6 Teraflops.

This is very smart, but you are forgetting other things like what type of CPU will it have? And it will only have 12 GBs of RAM total. A 50% increase in memory is NOT next-gen worthy.

 

[J-Skee]

Can't wait until tomorrow's episode. I wonder if their stance has changed at all since the reveal. A lot of information came out afterwards that they didn't know at the time.