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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Yeesh, sounds like I dodged a bullet by unsubscribing last week. The last thing I need more of is technologically illiterate people making assumptions about technology.
The rough thing is that it has a couple of exclusive games, so that misinformation is not good to put out there.
Ugh. This is so incredibly stupid. I almost have a hard time believing that Collin is genuine and not just trolling. It's that inane.
Omnistalgic
Member
I've been sticking up for PSILY even when I'm in strong disagreement with them. But, Colin, you're pushing it now. I have not always been an enthusiast, I can speak clearly from both sides, and Ps4 Pro is not some weird obscure unnecessary thing. Just because it's not for everyone, doesn't mean it's not valuable. It's like you guys aren't looking at the price, it's a much more powerful PS4 while still being affordable. It will improve your games on a 1080p set, more importantly in the later years of the gen, it won't look like some dinosaur technology because it will work with 4K sets as well, it will support HDR, and it will have the capabilities to make games that don't look crappy compared to PC, even when PS5 is knocking on the door. Pro is essentially extending the life of the PS4 generation, i figure you would be happy with that?
The pro is NOT a big deal, we can agree there, you don't have to upgrade, but if you do, it's not some crazy investment either. You realize most people will get $120-$200 bucks off the pro by just trading in? Who wants that you say? What's the purpose in getting an IPhone 7 when you have a 6+? That's your answer.
It's just a better PS4 man...that's not confusing to average gamers, especially when games like Horizon and GTS come out and show it off more.
The PSM was weak, but honestly, you guys should inform yourself a bit more if you were absolutely lost at the conference. I can't build my own PC or anything like that, but Mark broke down what the system is for and capable of, and why HDR and 4K is important very clearly. A huge take away I got from the conference, and especially the interviews, was developers have these higher quality assets already in the studio and making them work on current TV's and for some devs consoles, literally means downscaling their original work. So HDR & 4K delivers more of the original vision and creation from the studios. Colin, how can that not be a good thing man?
Lastly, you're giving MS way too much of a free pass. There marketing a chip with 4K on it and you are saying that sold you more on it than a Pro? Man, the ps4 audience is not THAT stupid. You are painting too broad a stoke here. MS price may not be $400. It might be delayed. It might still have a weak CPU which means it will in fact NOT be some huge leap over the Pro as both of you guys keep implying. Just wait and see what they do, it's almost like you are applauding MS for having the courage to admit defeat and do something different. But the reality is, they aren't doing what you're implying. They said no one will get left behind. They said Scorpio won't have exclusives. They are shoehorning VR in, instead of making their own investments. MS at this point is releasing what the Pro would have been next year, if you feel that is soooo much better, perhaps you need to talk to some more devs to give you some perspective on how tech works.
Really dissapointing show, well the first half I guess...love you guys I really do, but you aren't researching things enough. And last I check Pro orders have been pretty good so far. Everyone who has actually seen the next step in graphics have loved it, and even if you aren't impressed, and stick to PS4, Sony is making it clear your experience will be largely equal.
Maybe instead of asking "why" for Pro, consider the "why not"?
The pro is NOT a big deal, we can agree there, you don't have to upgrade, but if you do, it's not some crazy investment either. You realize most people will get $120-$200 bucks off the pro by just trading in? Who wants that you say? What's the purpose in getting an IPhone 7 when you have a 6+? That's your answer.
It's just a better PS4 man...that's not confusing to average gamers, especially when games like Horizon and GTS come out and show it off more.
The PSM was weak, but honestly, you guys should inform yourself a bit more if you were absolutely lost at the conference. I can't build my own PC or anything like that, but Mark broke down what the system is for and capable of, and why HDR and 4K is important very clearly. A huge take away I got from the conference, and especially the interviews, was developers have these higher quality assets already in the studio and making them work on current TV's and for some devs consoles, literally means downscaling their original work. So HDR & 4K delivers more of the original vision and creation from the studios. Colin, how can that not be a good thing man?
Lastly, you're giving MS way too much of a free pass. There marketing a chip with 4K on it and you are saying that sold you more on it than a Pro? Man, the ps4 audience is not THAT stupid. You are painting too broad a stoke here. MS price may not be $400. It might be delayed. It might still have a weak CPU which means it will in fact NOT be some huge leap over the Pro as both of you guys keep implying. Just wait and see what they do, it's almost like you are applauding MS for having the courage to admit defeat and do something different. But the reality is, they aren't doing what you're implying. They said no one will get left behind. They said Scorpio won't have exclusives. They are shoehorning VR in, instead of making their own investments. MS at this point is releasing what the Pro would have been next year, if you feel that is soooo much better, perhaps you need to talk to some more devs to give you some perspective on how tech works.
Really dissapointing show, well the first half I guess...love you guys I really do, but you aren't researching things enough. And last I check Pro orders have been pretty good so far. Everyone who has actually seen the next step in graphics have loved it, and even if you aren't impressed, and stick to PS4, Sony is making it clear your experience will be largely equal.
Maybe instead of asking "why" for Pro, consider the "why not"?
Sorry that's so long, but I feel strongly about it, and wanted to express myself. You don't have to reply but I hope you read it. As you said, we all have our guy reactions. And mines overall is you arent being nearly objective about pro as you should be.
True.
If it has SATA3 then yes (we don't know). VR games won't run better but it will allow them to be much prettier.
Well said.
ElMexiMerican
Member
It feels like they still don't understand that even if you only have 1080p TV, the PS4 Pro has the potential to make games look even better and run even better. We're not just talking small tweaks like a 3DS to New 3DS either. And to go to Colin's question of who this is for: this is for those consumers that own a PS4 currently or are in the market for one that care about graphical fidelity and frame rate. This is also for those that own a 4K TV, or will own one in the near future. Could Sony have sold that better last week? Absolutely. But how they talked about it was a very safe way to do it so they wouldn't alienate current PS4 owners, which is totally understandable. I'm not really sure why Colin is so passionate about this when from Andrew House's statement, it sounds like a very logical business decision. Right now is quite possibly the only time they can release it. Next March would be potentially competing with NX, and any later than that it would get trumped by Scorpio's full reveal. And since they're releasing it soon, I just can't see how they would have been able to go back to the drawing board and create a new version of the Pro next year to match Scorpio's specs.
I usually never have a problem with Colin's opinions, and sometimes I fully agree with him. However, the fact that he seems to be doubling down so hard on his statements for the PS4 Pro, I can't help but be left with a slight distaste.
Said it better than I could.
I usually never have a problem with Colin's opinions, and sometimes I fully agree with him. However, the fact that he seems to be doubling down so hard on his statements for the PS4 Pro, I can't help but be left with a slight distaste.
Said it better than I could.
Why. The pro is just a upgraded version of the vanilla ps4. Not everyone will appreciate the upgrades (or level of the upgrades) and that is fine. It's optional and won't make ps4 vanilla obsolete.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
So instead of brushing up on technical details they doubled down on misinformation. On the biggest PlayStation podcast.
Love these guys but, please. Please. This is killing me.
Edit: Gonna reiterate what I said last week and suggest everyone check out Digital Foundry's content for fair and informed coverage. They do excellent work over there and are needed more than ever.
Love these guys but, please. Please. This is killing me.
Edit: Gonna reiterate what I said last week and suggest everyone check out Digital Foundry's content for fair and informed coverage. They do excellent work over there and are needed more than ever.
good rant. the Scorpio announcement confused me honestly. They showed almost nothing, hyped potential specs all while promising "no one left behind". And I'm sure they don't want to make another overpriced console. So if this thing is $399, how much "better" will it be compared to the PRO? I honestly would like to know that. Or will it be $499 or more? And if it is how will they sell us on it when compared to the PRO, which will be cheaper and probably do many of the same things.
EdReedFan20
Member
I don't blame Colin for not knowing this (as it is quite confusing to people not following television tech), but he is under the impression that 4K televisions are not needed to take advantage of HDR technology. That is absolutely not true. You need 4K to use HDR (which not all 4K televisions have). If you have a PS4 Pro and only a 1080p television, you'll get a smoother image (as the game is being downsampled to 1080p from a higher resolution), but not HDR.
H.Cornerstone
Member
They really need a PC Gamer at Kinda Funny.....
The weird thing about the Scorpio argument is that, according to the info out there, it will be doing the same thing the Pro is doing now, but a year later. But they were praising it up?
ElMexiMerican
Member
Those 6tflops are getting people good.
Bolivar687
Banned
There will indeed be displays that utilize HDR at resolutions lower than 4K:
Whether or not that filters down to consumer HDTVs is unknown.
Yep im not interested but I get the appeal.
As long as OG ps4 games dont have shit frame rates im cool
How to be not interested in iterative consoles without going into an irrelevant, ill-informed rant:
*applause*
*applause*
Didn't Shadows of Mordor have to remove its most praised feature when it released on PS3 later due to not being able to handle it?
Also, open world games exist on older platforms, but the complexities and range of interactions are only possible on newer hardware. "Video" gaming is a combination on physical inputs working in tandem with a visual representation on a screen. I do not believe the Witcher 3 could exist as it does on the PS4 on the PS3.
This is not even the real point, since the PS4 Pro is not a new console generation. It is an iterative device.
I think Colin's point can be argued, but his supporting evidence is flawed and his reasoning is misguided.
The PS4 conference was a confusing mess. A normal person watching that event would think that there was no update to the system besides HDR and 4k. We may understand the power will impact games in other ways, but normal people may not see the reason to upgrade. Even enthusiasts may not see the reason to upgrade.
I also think there is still a scenario that no one is thinking about with this iterative console. There is a chance that the differences in visual fidelity and performance could become more apparent as time goes on that will impact old PS4's ability to play new release titles. Policies can be relaxed, not enforced as the generation progresses.
I think the PS4 Pro is an unproven concept in the console business. The only difference between Pro and Scorpio is that Pro has the PSN subscriber base to draw from with easy migration, they are releasing a year earlier, and there will be Pro/PS4 titles that won't release on PC simultaneously with better performance.
I will own both new systems at launch, and I am not sure how this will work out. Making consoles even more confusing with information about needing special rigs, new receivers, HDMI cables in order to receive the advertised experiences could lead to a mess.
I think there is a chance that too many skus and model configurations will hurt both parties. There is also plenty of room for either SKU to be discontinued if one is overwhelmingly more popular. Two years from now Sony and Microsoft could be selling only upgraded systems and what will that mean in terms of dedicating time to making the old PS4 mode work optimally.
Also, open world games exist on older platforms, but the complexities and range of interactions are only possible on newer hardware. "Video" gaming is a combination on physical inputs working in tandem with a visual representation on a screen. I do not believe the Witcher 3 could exist as it does on the PS4 on the PS3.
This is not even the real point, since the PS4 Pro is not a new console generation. It is an iterative device.
I think Colin's point can be argued, but his supporting evidence is flawed and his reasoning is misguided.
The PS4 conference was a confusing mess. A normal person watching that event would think that there was no update to the system besides HDR and 4k. We may understand the power will impact games in other ways, but normal people may not see the reason to upgrade. Even enthusiasts may not see the reason to upgrade.
I also think there is still a scenario that no one is thinking about with this iterative console. There is a chance that the differences in visual fidelity and performance could become more apparent as time goes on that will impact old PS4's ability to play new release titles. Policies can be relaxed, not enforced as the generation progresses.
I think the PS4 Pro is an unproven concept in the console business. The only difference between Pro and Scorpio is that Pro has the PSN subscriber base to draw from with easy migration, they are releasing a year earlier, and there will be Pro/PS4 titles that won't release on PC simultaneously with better performance.
I will own both new systems at launch, and I am not sure how this will work out. Making consoles even more confusing with information about needing special rigs, new receivers, HDMI cables in order to receive the advertised experiences could lead to a mess.
I think there is a chance that too many skus and model configurations will hurt both parties. There is also plenty of room for either SKU to be discontinued if one is overwhelmingly more popular. Two years from now Sony and Microsoft could be selling only upgraded systems and what will that mean in terms of dedicating time to making the old PS4 mode work optimally.
H.Cornerstone
Member
The thing that drives me crazy
Colin: "Show me a game that works on PS4 but not PS3"
Everyone else: "Shadows of Mordor"
Colin: "that doesn't count"
Everyone else: "GOTY doesn't count?"
Colin: "Show me a game that works on PS4 but not PS3"
Everyone else: "Shadows of Mordor"
Colin: "that doesn't count"
Everyone else: "GOTY doesn't count?"
They don't even consider that new purchasers might just spend the 100$ and buy a more powerful PS4. A new PS4 owner can get a PS4 that is 2x more powerful at the same price Greg/Colin purchased 3 years ago.
They assume that the performance improvement from Xbox One S and Xbox One will be similar to what we see from Standard to Pro. They are wrong.
Comparing GPU power (tflops)
1.31 Xbox One
1.4 Xbox One S
6.9% Improvement
1.84 PS4/PS4 Slim
4.2 PS4 Pro
128% Improvement
They assume that the performance improvement from Xbox One S and Xbox One will be similar to what we see from Standard to Pro. They are wrong.
Comparing GPU power (tflops)
1.31 Xbox One
1.4 Xbox One S
6.9% Improvement
1.84 PS4/PS4 Slim
4.2 PS4 Pro
128% Improvement
Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis mode
http://kotaku.com/shadow-of-mordor-is-way-less-fun-on-old-consoles-1660387779
H.Cornerstone
Member
Yeah, which just proves that his point is incorrect.
It still amazes me that won so many GotYs, so painfully average.
But yeah, I feel they really don't have a clue about a lot of the stuff they're saying about the ps4 pro, kinda embarrassing.
wapplew
Member
Xbox one S is a more powerful Xbox one that also do 4K* and HDR, so they are equal. Actually, Xbox one S is better, it can play 4K bluray.
I think that's the logic.
Not to mention we had months of rumors and leaks that said that is was going to be a more powerful ps4.
Exactly and so far all the announced PS4 Slim bundles for Europe are 1TB models that cost just £40 less than the PS4 Pro. Parents will still probably buy the Slim but it's an easy up-sell for many who are buying the console for themselves.
Dirtyshubb
Member
It was always clear that we wouldn't get a real response to the points raised here and elsewhere regarding colins opinion on the ps4 pro.
I said before that he would most likely focus on the more extreme responses and ignore the vast majority that are actually level headed, logical, based on facts and totally fair just so he didn't have to have a real discussion or change his opinion.
Maybe we will get another 'i don't owe you anything!' comment posted in the Kinda Funny OT thread after he drive by posts a funny meme image here like last time. What I would actually like is for Colin to actually read the pages of well thought out points and not just dismiss 'gaf' like he does.
Dont get me wrong I can get pissed off with gaf at times but when you have people honestly asking for a discussion and coming out with fair comments and your only responses are dismissive and antagonistic it just makes you seem like someone who knows they don't have a leg to stand on.
And before we do get a 'I don't owe you a thing' post from Colin, maybe remember that we have precedence of you coming into this very thread to argue your case previously but maybe that's only when it suits you or you think you can actually win the argument. Also maybe you should refrain from making smarky comments on your show about 'gaf' and other online places as if we are stupid or unreasonable if you are the one actively avoiding any real discussion about something that you are increasingly looking very ignorant and illogical on.
I said before that he would most likely focus on the more extreme responses and ignore the vast majority that are actually level headed, logical, based on facts and totally fair just so he didn't have to have a real discussion or change his opinion.
Maybe we will get another 'i don't owe you anything!' comment posted in the Kinda Funny OT thread after he drive by posts a funny meme image here like last time. What I would actually like is for Colin to actually read the pages of well thought out points and not just dismiss 'gaf' like he does.
Dont get me wrong I can get pissed off with gaf at times but when you have people honestly asking for a discussion and coming out with fair comments and your only responses are dismissive and antagonistic it just makes you seem like someone who knows they don't have a leg to stand on.
And before we do get a 'I don't owe you a thing' post from Colin, maybe remember that we have precedence of you coming into this very thread to argue your case previously but maybe that's only when it suits you or you think you can actually win the argument. Also maybe you should refrain from making smarky comments on your show about 'gaf' and other online places as if we are stupid or unreasonable if you are the one actively avoiding any real discussion about something that you are increasingly looking very ignorant and illogical on.
I haven't watched it since it was posted, but wasn't it having to do with reviewing the game or showing footage before the day one patch? Even though people were streaming it and all that, and they were annoyed by it.
I could be wrong, though.
To me, especially the many small things matter. Like e.g. with Batman Arkham Knight, I loved how instantly and seamlessly you could enter a building and stumble right into a group of baddies alongside a boss. You could hear him talk even before you were in IIRC. It all seemed so much more like one place compared to previous entries. There, you had much more half concealed loading areas you were gated through.
Open world was not possible on PS2 in that level of freedom, though Rockstar had some very good ground laying titles in that area. Show me a Witcher III comparable open world RPG on the PS2, Colin!
Open world was not possible on PS2 in that level of freedom, though Rockstar had some very good ground laying titles in that area. Show me a Witcher III comparable open world RPG on the PS2, Colin!
Omnistalgic
Member
Tks man
Had to stop watching at about 45 minutes, because Colin is too difficult to listen to when he rants. The worst part is that he has this annoying tendency to bully whomever he is with into agreeing with him. That's why I laughed when Andrea Rene and Tim were like "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about Colin".
Seriously though, it's now getting very annoying to listen to ill-informed journalists roast something they clearly don't understand, and are not open minded enough to research. I don't claim to be a PS4 Pro expert, but I can see the fucking value in a $399 console that provides over 2x the power of the original. It's not like this thing is priced beyond what people can afford. It's a fairly cheap upgrade (especially since you can sell your old PS4), and a no-brainer for someone jumping into PS4 for the first time.
Seriously though, it's now getting very annoying to listen to ill-informed journalists roast something they clearly don't understand, and are not open minded enough to research. I don't claim to be a PS4 Pro expert, but I can see the fucking value in a $399 console that provides over 2x the power of the original. It's not like this thing is priced beyond what people can afford. It's a fairly cheap upgrade (especially since you can sell your old PS4), and a no-brainer for someone jumping into PS4 for the first time.
Very rarely will a new console introduce an entirely new gameplay genre. Happened on N64... maybe SNES to a minor degree. XBox introduced better online play. Most of the time though, design changes bit by bit from console to console.
And that doesn't even apply to PS4 Pro because it's not even a new console. Introducing new gameplay is not the point. In fact, the point of the iteration is very specifically for there to NOT be new gameplay elements that PS4 can't do. Collin is completely off his rocker. I don't really care if he has an opinion I don't agree with, that's actually why I usually like him. In this case he is being purposefully misinformed. That's the only possible explanation. Or he's trolling.
And that doesn't even apply to PS4 Pro because it's not even a new console. Introducing new gameplay is not the point. In fact, the point of the iteration is very specifically for there to NOT be new gameplay elements that PS4 can't do. Collin is completely off his rocker. I don't really care if he has an opinion I don't agree with, that's actually why I usually like him. In this case he is being purposefully misinformed. That's the only possible explanation. Or he's trolling.
These current/former IGN guys are astoundingly ignorant about videogame technology.
I listened to the reactions from the Giant Bomb and Eurogamer guys who actually went and they did not feel that way.
Omnistalgic
Member
It's always good to watch for yourself though.
And It was still a decent show, they didn't clamor on Sony nearly as much as other sites about the mod thing, being more objective and I don't think they crapped on Sony about the hike as much either. I definitely get this is gut reaction stuff. But there is just too much misinformation going on and you guys should be a bit more responsible with how you word things to your audience. You are the source of information to a lot of people. Here's some snippets that would have helped
- along with House comments about PC, there are quotes from Cerny that highlights why Pro is more of a graphical approach than an all around huge upgrade. You guys want to see Pro have something better than Horizon and yet that would likely anger PS4 users as Colin was worried about. Do you see so many users upset they HAVE to upgrade? Cerny interview went into detail about specific things they upgrade so that Pro and PS4 are working together
- physical media, doubly so for the next wave of 4K movies, are just not increasing year over year and there is a strong trend towards digital and streaming. Sony even has their own steaming service. This could still easily be a negative, a 4K drive is nice to have even if only 1% of your audience uses it. Slim and Pro comparisons are not apt, do some research, MS check point jab against pro is just good Twitter marketing. Just an example, of getting out there and doing some digging. I know you guys are busy, and travel and recording a bunch of shows, but we're not just coming up with tales from our ass over here lol
Looking forward to the next show...
PS I still love you, I just hate you now ;-)
Dirtyshubb
Member
But that's the thing, regardless of his years at IGN or his contacts and everything else Colin likes to remind us of, he also reminds us that he isn't actually a games journalist and instead an entertainer and points to people like Patrick from kotaku as real journalists.
It just becomes a get out-of jail free card for incorrect opinions 'its not my fault, I'm not a professional. I'm an entertainer' which is laughable considering I have lost count of how manay times Colin has gone off at people disagreeing with him by stating how informed and knowledgeable he is.
Correction. "From Vice"
Sony listens to the show. They should really have Shu or Rohde reach out and offer to go on the podcast to clear up this whole power question. I'm a huge KF fan, but they really need put the correct information out there. It's quite the jump above the Xbox One S. I honestly can't believe they keep comparing the two as if there are only marginal differences.
To be fair, Sony absolutely botched the reveal though. They could have done a much better job at showcasing the power jump above the PS4 and thus, the One S. The devs in the days that followed did a better job than they did.
To be fair, Sony absolutely botched the reveal though. They could have done a much better job at showcasing the power jump above the PS4 and thus, the One S. The devs in the days that followed did a better job than they did.
The Strokes
Banned
Oh boy, I take this new episode is gonna be interesting to watch.
Honestly, not being a tech guy and not interesed in looks rather than performance, Sony did a lousy job to inform ignorant people like me, how is the Pro going to make my gaming experience smoother, not prettier.
100 bucks is 100 bucks and I'm making my move into the Slim holiday bundles unless they turned it around with their message to the consumers.
Honestly, not being a tech guy and not interesed in looks rather than performance, Sony did a lousy job to inform ignorant people like me, how is the Pro going to make my gaming experience smoother, not prettier.
100 bucks is 100 bucks and I'm making my move into the Slim holiday bundles unless they turned it around with their message to the consumers.
Darth Smurf X
Member
Most of you have hit the nail on the head here already, but I would also like to pile on with my opinion.
I feel the Pro is a better approach to upgrades than the Scorpio. Here's why. I, an early adopter, do not feel like I'm being left behind when the Pro arrives. I feel my $400 investment is still relevant and will give me the same experiences for the next several years. I don't feel the need to upgrade, because I do not own a 4K TV and have no plans on buying one any year soon. I feel like those that want the better graphics and have the better TV now have an option to upgrade their experience, while not making me feel alienated and inferior.
The Scorpio does the opposite of that. Had I bought an XBO at release, I'd feel snubbed. Not because of the 4K stuff, but because of the VR stuff. If I wanted a VR experience, I'd have to drop my current XBO and upgrade at who knows what the entry level cost will be, just for the Scorpio VR exclusives. I'm speculating, because we don't know their plans, but I think I'd feel like I now have the inferior version of my console and those that upgrade will get more games, more experiences and more whatever that I, an early adopter and fan, would not be getting.
The XBO Slim is great though. I will definitely buy one of those if my X360 ever dies.
I feel the Pro is a better approach to upgrades than the Scorpio. Here's why. I, an early adopter, do not feel like I'm being left behind when the Pro arrives. I feel my $400 investment is still relevant and will give me the same experiences for the next several years. I don't feel the need to upgrade, because I do not own a 4K TV and have no plans on buying one any year soon. I feel like those that want the better graphics and have the better TV now have an option to upgrade their experience, while not making me feel alienated and inferior.
The Scorpio does the opposite of that. Had I bought an XBO at release, I'd feel snubbed. Not because of the 4K stuff, but because of the VR stuff. If I wanted a VR experience, I'd have to drop my current XBO and upgrade at who knows what the entry level cost will be, just for the Scorpio VR exclusives. I'm speculating, because we don't know their plans, but I think I'd feel like I now have the inferior version of my console and those that upgrade will get more games, more experiences and more whatever that I, an early adopter and fan, would not be getting.
The XBO Slim is great though. I will definitely buy one of those if my X360 ever dies.