EdReedFan20
Member
Alex, though, doesn't (currently, at least).
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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Alex, though, doesn't (currently, at least).
PepperedHam
Member
You truly believe the Pro is going to put up numbers like the PS4 did?
Not that I'm disagreeing or have any way to disprove but why do you think that?
get2sammyb
Member
The problem is that this isn't a hardware problem, it's an industry problem. Games are too complicated and too expensive to make now, so the AAA space is doubling down on safe bets. You're seeing innovation in the indie space, but it's becoming much harder to take those bets on big budget games.
I know it was announced a long time ago, but I'll tell you one upcoming title that looks a little out of the ordinary: The Last Guardian. And we all know what the PS I Love You hosts think of that game...
El-Pistolero
Member
It is still a PS4, sold for $399...so...yes?
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
I've followed Greg and Colin since the moment they started, I'm guessing longer than you have. I cried at their Beyond farewell video and I've written to them a few times.
Greg reading your post. What they're doing obviously works, they're making fucktons of money through Patreon, Twitch and sponsors. They've built a dedicated community of fans who are really into the brand.
Sucks you're not enjoying them but I sure as shit hope they aren't reading your comments and changing things because I'm loving pretty much everything they put out.
I'm very proud of their achievements with Kinda Funny and I support them on Patreon. But that doesn't prevent me from criticising them, and I hope they ARE taking the comments in this thread to heart -- apart from the personal attacks, of course.
I want them to continue to thrive and hold themselves to high standards. Misinformation and stubbornness isn't going to help them do that. I could (just about) forgive last week's PSILY as it was an immediate reaction to a lacklustre conference, but Colin has no excuse to double down on misinformation that is easily proven false by coverage from the likes of Digital Foundry.
In cases like this they should have the humility to defer to experts. This is a really bad look for them and I can't wait for the Pro launch to come and go so they can move on from a topic that honestly embarrasses them.
Funny enough TLG literally could not have run on PS3 (at a reasonable frame rate).
Dirtyshubb
Member
The funny thing is that to the question 'show me a game on ps4 that the PS3 couldn't do' TLG is the perfect answer.
All the footage originally shown was cobbled together as the game was apparently running at something like 6 fps and sped up to look functional so it is clear that the PS3 just wasn't up to running the game with how the devs wanted it to and had to change it to ps4 to get it working.
EDIT* beaten above
Greg reading your post. What they're doing obviously works, they're making fucktons of money through Patreon, Twitch and sponsors. They've built a dedicated community of fans who are really into the brand.
Sucks you're not enjoying them but I sure as shit hope they aren't reading your comments and changing things because I'm loving pretty much everything they put out.
Greg and Colin have always said they read neogaf and they most likely will be skimming this thread.
And is great they are branching out and successful but I hope they at least do some research on topics they are talking about.
And in reference to you loving what they do, I don't care.
PepperedHam
Member
But there's also the fact that there's a 299 slim model and also the fact that so many PS4s have been moved already. Sales wouldn't be split between those two models?
darthsontin
Member
Had to quit halfway through that episode when Colin was angry ranting. I get not liking the PS4Pro, but it isn't that big of a deal. I think he falls into that trap of "I don't like it, therefore it has no reason to exist for anyone."
Having Goldfarb there also reminded me of one of the biggest problems that the new Beyond has- none of them have their own opinions. I don't see what just agreeing with everything Colin said the entire time added to the show. At least Greg has his own thoughts.
I think I'm going to take a break and listen to Easy Allies instead.
Having Goldfarb there also reminded me of one of the biggest problems that the new Beyond has- none of them have their own opinions. I don't see what just agreeing with everything Colin said the entire time added to the show. At least Greg has his own thoughts.
I think I'm going to take a break and listen to Easy Allies instead.
64bitbros
Member
Thank you for this post. This exacly how i feel. I just can't listen to their stuff any more. It pains me because i used to love it. It is just too negative/shouting at the clouds/back in my day/get of my lawn type thinking. This is not just the misinformation, but mostly the double standards. Pro is bad because power doesn't matter, but Scorpio is alright because its a generational leap. Argueing that power doesn't matter because there are no games on ps4 that could not be done on ps3. If that is so then why is Scorpio, which is a "just" more powerful console ok but the Pro isn't? Thats not right Colin. That is wrong so on many levels its not even funny. You can have your opinion and not like it, totally fine, but not with this visiousness and anger. Do you really think your target audience, which is playstation fans, want to hear this kind of negativity? Are you catering to your fan's or your friends? Because that is one of the big reasons, Colin's developer friends. They don't like it, the extra work it brings, and Colin is being a good friend and having their backs. All reason has gone out the door, he is sticking up for them no matter what.
Listening to the reactions podcast i also expected better from Greg and Tim. They know Colin's stance but do not even try to counter balance it a bit. They either go around Colin or just back/look away. And in this case they just joined in on the hate. Highly disappointing guys. Easy Allies, here i come. I could use a bit of positivity right about now.
El-Pistolero
Member
Well, it does not matter to Sony which one people choose, as long as they go for one of their platforms instead of their competitors'.
Omnistalgic
Member
I pray to the Naughty Gods they aren’t doing this on purpose. lol...They know they don’t need to.
I really think it’s just scheduling, twitter reaction influencing them, not interested enough in the topic to really dive into the research. Problem with twitter is sometimes a large group of people can still be largely ignorant.
I get Colin’s basic philosophy, about gaming in general, but as stated there’s only so much pushing Sony can do about industry wide problems. Even Apple caters to t’s developers, Apple, who has like 400 billion dollars in the bank! This has never been done before, and it’s something new to try with a pretty big fail safe = OG PS4. So I just don’t get Colin’s animosity towards it. It’s not complicating anything anymore than VR is.
The next argument is just going to be “they should have did this next year” There’s no right time to experiment though IMO. The idea that MS planned this out to be exactly 4 years after launch just fits a narrative from conjecture. I could just as easily say MS is only doing this because they are getting curb stomped worldwide and gave like 60% market share back to Sony in their dominant markets. I think it’s overall exciting personally. I think either both will be marginally successful, or one will run away with a larger measure of success. But I don’t see Pro getting 50/50 or anything like that.
EDIT: Tks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated...This has been very lively time for this thread at least, so that’s one good thing about all this stuff.
Dlacy13g
Member
$50? did i miss a price change?
Omnistalgic
Member
I do expect a much more positive show next week though guys. Greg is out someone googling at a $5000 4KTV with Horizon running on it as we speak! lol...
Prediction. Pro sells 1 million in November!
RedRooster
Member
They were even more bewildered by technical specs and what they mean(as it seems so many of these personalities are sadly), but at least they're not so dismissive of everything.
Man im loving Easy and Frame more and more with each episode so good.
get2sammyb
Member
They don't need to be positive if they don't feel something's positive. But they do need to have a basic understanding of what they're talking about if they're going to make all of the wrong assumptions and share a very forceful opinion on them.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You only have a finite amount of engineering capital as well as actual capital.
Even if the Pro makes money does it make enough money? Could the initial Pro money have been spent else where? Could top engineers be working towards something else?
The idea that just cause the PS4 Pro exists and doesn't appear to effect current PS4 owners in terms of exclusive titles or such doesn't mean it doesn't effect the PS and Sony company.
The problem is Colin doesn't know the answers to this, but neither do PS4 Pro fans either.
Even with the switch to a more mainstream architecture this shit takes a few years in terms of work. The Pro wasn't a quick decision and output by Sony nor is the idea that Sony could just magically shit out a PS5 next year realistic in terms of time and talent and cash.
PS: I think there is a very real argument for and against the Pro but I think Sony, games media, and game fans haven't exactly wowed me either way with their pro or con arguments on this thing. It's been a bunch of rash surface level thoughts.
Even if the Pro makes money does it make enough money? Could the initial Pro money have been spent else where? Could top engineers be working towards something else?
The idea that just cause the PS4 Pro exists and doesn't appear to effect current PS4 owners in terms of exclusive titles or such doesn't mean it doesn't effect the PS and Sony company.
The problem is Colin doesn't know the answers to this, but neither do PS4 Pro fans either.
Even with the switch to a more mainstream architecture this shit takes a few years in terms of work. The Pro wasn't a quick decision and output by Sony nor is the idea that Sony could just magically shit out a PS5 next year realistic in terms of time and talent and cash.
PS: I think there is a very real argument for and against the Pro but I think Sony, games media, and game fans haven't exactly wowed me either way with their pro or con arguments on this thing. It's been a bunch of rash surface level thoughts.
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
I haven't listened in the last couple weeks will probably skip this weeks too. I don't want or need their opinions to be the same as mine, but it's incredibly frustrating to listen to someone spout misinformation so adamantly, and shrug off any valid criticism.
If I've learned anything about Colin over the past 8 years of listening to him on different podcasts, is that he hates being wrong, and rarely admits it when he is. Not to say he has to like the Neo, but comparing it to the S in terms of power is just silly.
If I've learned anything about Colin over the past 8 years of listening to him on different podcasts, is that he hates being wrong, and rarely admits it when he is. Not to say he has to like the Neo, but comparing it to the S in terms of power is just silly.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
Just finished listening to this and I'm frankly astonished that this one somehow managed to spread more misinformation then last week. I was willing to cut them (well, just Colin this week) significant slack because last week were their immediate reactions and Sony by basically every account did a poor job communicating the strengths of the PS4Pro, but this week Colin just double-downed on on falsehoods and nonsensical rants that have nothing to do with the PS4Pro. Like, just the minimum of research was needed to be done to clear up basically all of his hangups with the Pro.
Let me clear, I don't care if Colin wants the Pro or not, but his vitriol makes no sense. It's analogous to someone being angry at the existence of the Platinum headphones Sony just announced when they already have the Gold headphones. Does the existence of the Platinum's make your Gold's perform worse? Are there game exclusive modes for the Platinum? No. If you're happy, stay happy. No reason to spend money on something that is OPTIONAL. But now you have the option to if better performance is something you desire.
It also was extremely hypocritical of Goldfarb and Colin to keep espousing their wacky belief that more power is somehow something that is unnecessary (?) for games and then immediately fawn over the enhancements to Bioshock. Like what the hell, it's a better looking/performing version of the game. It's basically the exact same thing the Pro is going to be.
Also, this narrow "console war" attitude they have about Sony beating Microsoft is so short-sighted. Sony isn't just "competing" with Microsoft, they are competing with phones, tablets, PC's and basically every other thing the money in your wallet could go to instead of to the PS4 ecosystem. A three year old system will start to show its age, and now there's an OPTION for those that want console games that perform better. The OG/Slim/Pro are competing with eachother, instead they're providing choice while keeping everyone in a unified ecosystem.
The thing they are failing to point out is that the existence of the Pro directly resulted in that the cost of entry to own a PS4 is now less, either by the $50 reduction to the Slim or the massively reduced cost to owning a used by PS4 now. That's great news. Also great news that there's now an OPTION to own a better performing version of the system that is compatible with the entirety of the PS4 family for $100 more. Options are good and stop worrying about the wacky scenario where a mother is buying a PS4 for a kid and is so overwhelmed by having two options. Almost every store has returns these days, it's not a tragedy.
Overall, I'm just bummed. The podcast I've listened to for years going back to Beyond for accurate and insightful Playstation coverage has been hijacked by the video games Skip Bayless with his "anonymous sources" and "people on twitter agree with me" nonsense. I know he says he's not a journalist anymore, but he once was one, and him abandoning all the ethics that go along with that in order to be "entertaining" somehow make it worse that he flipped to the other side. I think I'm going to take a couple weeks off from the pod and probably check back in a few weeks to see what direction these guys are going in.
Also, you just know these guys are going to be playing Horizon and every other major upcoming release on the Pro's
Let me clear, I don't care if Colin wants the Pro or not, but his vitriol makes no sense. It's analogous to someone being angry at the existence of the Platinum headphones Sony just announced when they already have the Gold headphones. Does the existence of the Platinum's make your Gold's perform worse? Are there game exclusive modes for the Platinum? No. If you're happy, stay happy. No reason to spend money on something that is OPTIONAL. But now you have the option to if better performance is something you desire.
It also was extremely hypocritical of Goldfarb and Colin to keep espousing their wacky belief that more power is somehow something that is unnecessary (?) for games and then immediately fawn over the enhancements to Bioshock. Like what the hell, it's a better looking/performing version of the game. It's basically the exact same thing the Pro is going to be.
Also, this narrow "console war" attitude they have about Sony beating Microsoft is so short-sighted. Sony isn't just "competing" with Microsoft, they are competing with phones, tablets, PC's and basically every other thing the money in your wallet could go to instead of to the PS4 ecosystem. A three year old system will start to show its age, and now there's an OPTION for those that want console games that perform better. The OG/Slim/Pro are competing with eachother, instead they're providing choice while keeping everyone in a unified ecosystem.
The thing they are failing to point out is that the existence of the Pro directly resulted in that the cost of entry to own a PS4 is now less, either by the $50 reduction to the Slim or the massively reduced cost to owning a used by PS4 now. That's great news. Also great news that there's now an OPTION to own a better performing version of the system that is compatible with the entirety of the PS4 family for $100 more. Options are good and stop worrying about the wacky scenario where a mother is buying a PS4 for a kid and is so overwhelmed by having two options. Almost every store has returns these days, it's not a tragedy.
Overall, I'm just bummed. The podcast I've listened to for years going back to Beyond for accurate and insightful Playstation coverage has been hijacked by the video games Skip Bayless with his "anonymous sources" and "people on twitter agree with me" nonsense. I know he says he's not a journalist anymore, but he once was one, and him abandoning all the ethics that go along with that in order to be "entertaining" somehow make it worse that he flipped to the other side. I think I'm going to take a couple weeks off from the pod and probably check back in a few weeks to see what direction these guys are going in.
Also, you just know these guys are going to be playing Horizon and every other major upcoming release on the Pro's
notaxation
Neo Member
I'm actually honestly surprised about the reaction to this particular episode. I found it to be fair, interesting, and fun to record. I got up from the table and felt positive about the show, especially after last week, when we were shooting from the hip and muddled the message somewhat. I read the news, injected commentary, brought someone on who I literally spoke to for zero seconds about PS4 Pro and didn't know where he even stood, and even sought out a meaty letter from our forums presenting a different argument that contrasts and conflicts with mine.
So here's the thing: if you have a problem with Episode 52, grab a time stamp, and tell me what I'm "wrong" about and/or what you take so much of an issue with. I'm sitting here listening intently to the episode (something I never do), I'm roughly an hour in, and I still can't figure out what was said that causes this much vitriol. To reiterate, I'm not listening casually. I'm sitting here listening carefully. The reaction here actually comes off as a little over-the-top, if I'm going to be honest.
I hope you are all well, and that you have a great rest of your week. -Colin
So here's the thing: if you have a problem with Episode 52, grab a time stamp, and tell me what I'm "wrong" about and/or what you take so much of an issue with. I'm sitting here listening intently to the episode (something I never do), I'm roughly an hour in, and I still can't figure out what was said that causes this much vitriol. To reiterate, I'm not listening casually. I'm sitting here listening carefully. The reaction here actually comes off as a little over-the-top, if I'm going to be honest.
I hope you are all well, and that you have a great rest of your week. -Colin
LifEndz
Member
Now this would've been an interesting podcast. Nevermind the hot takes, faux outrage and weird positions on more power =/= better games so why do we need more power; but a discussion with someone who actually knows what they're talking about (surely these two know a great many devs) would've made for a much more enjoyable and informative show. Hopefully they can do something like that prior to launch of the pro.
Neuromancer
Member
I've always thought these guys were about as knowledgeable as average GameFAQs posters, with the same quality of personalities and opinions. Sounds like nothing changed.
Well Colin actually replied about two posts above you. If you didn't know his username is notaxation.
EdReedFan20
Member
I'm not someone who criticized you last week, but today you made a very simple mistake (no big deal, as its a fairly common one). I don't remember where in the podcast it happened, but it sounded like you were saying something about HDR being on 1080p televisions. Right now, HDR can really only be found on 4K televisions. As someone pointed out to me, some 1080p sets do have HDR, but are not available to consumers. So, even though the old PS4 model will have HDR support, you will need a 4K television to take advantage of it. I'm wagering most (old) PS4 owners can't take advantage of the HDR functionality as a result (still a cool thing for Sony to do).
Also, while not related to this episode, I thought this was interesting. The Digital Bits is a premiere website that discusses home media. It's founder, Bill Hunt, has an idea why there is no 4K Blu-Ray on PS4 and how it can still show up eventually.
http://digitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/090816_1630
That guy is usually quite knowledgeable in that field, so don't be surprised if 4K Blu-Ray is eventually added. If you recall, 3D Blu-Ray playback was added via firmware to both PS3 and PS4.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Greg reading your post. What they're doing obviously works, they're making fucktons of money through Patreon, Twitch and sponsors. They've built a dedicated community of fans who are really into the brand.
Sucks you're not enjoying them but I sure as shit hope they aren't reading your comments and changing things because I'm loving pretty much everything they put out.
I watch this show and many of their other videos on YouTube every week, but after last week's show that I turned off early I'm not watching any more of their content until this misinformed rage about PS4 Pro is gone. Colin in particular has been insufferable. Shame because I like their content otherwise. They need to get informed and let it go.
depths20XX
Member
Yup. Tried watching the show a few times. Dunno how anyone can get through an hour of that.
Omnistalgic
Member
This show was a lot better than last week Colin, and not because you were lighter in tone, you can not like pro, bash Sony (it’s actually good for them) and everything, we just want you to dig a little deeper into things buddy.
- Sony are looking at data, from their own hardware, that shows people leave consoles in later years after games start looking outdated. You keep saying it’s an unforced error, when Sony know what happens with each iteration of their own product.
- Your “Uncharted to Last of Us” example should also apply to this generation, since Pro is tied directly to PS4, and will offer minor improvements. First parties once again, are likely to push PS4 to its limits just like PS3. The complications you are implying likely don’t stem from anywhere but assumptions no?
- You keep letting MS off the hook because it’s a year later, dude, they are doing exactly the same thing lol. MS’s console right now is pretty much a target with smoke and mirrors
- You didn’t present the argument for Blu-ray 4K not really mattering to the majority of the user base, or movie watchers in general. Yet that seems to be the biggest point of your argument for PS4Pro, “this doesn’t matter to the larger audience who doesn’t have 4K sets, or care about small bumps in tech”.
- Neither you nor your host should compare X1s to Pro in the manner you did, they really aren’t competing. They are nothing alike, in fact Slim is still a more capable machine than X1s and with HDR has a feature it doesn’t have and vice versa with the 4K player. Pro is a much much more powerful machine, and not just in GPU power.
- PS4 Pro can enhance framerate. it’s up to developers. This is exactly what the Tomb Raider team is doing. So the letter that guy read can still apply to what Andrew and more importantly what Mark Cerny said. Pro can absolutely benefit 1080p owners and a dev can increase frame rate. Pro can do both, but obviously easier to talk about 4K and HDR.
MyleMan1010
Member
Colin seriously said he knows people that didn't like The Last Of Us at 60fps... He sure is going all in on this PS4 Pro hate isn't he? And if I hear one of them say the PS4 Pro and Xbox One S are "on par" one more time I'm gonna scream. The original PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One S is. Do they really not understand console hardware to this level?
And LOL at Goldfarb being more sold by the Scorpio reveal than the PS4 Pro at the PSM. Microsoft showed nothing but a chip with "4K" on it. I don't even know what to say at that one.
And LOL at Goldfarb being more sold by the Scorpio reveal than the PS4 Pro at the PSM. Microsoft showed nothing but a chip with "4K" on it. I don't even know what to say at that one.
Caipirinha
Member
I think the PS4 Pro reveal was pretty confusing but I have to agree with most posters here that I don't see why it deserves such vitriol. It's not expensive, it's not disingenuous, it's a PS4 that takes advantage of 4K TVs and HDR - pretty straight forward really and I don't see any reason to think that Sony are hedging all their bets on it selling many tens of millions so I don't really know why it's such an "unforced error".
It's not exactly what I wanted it to be but it's not harming me in any way. Judging from some of the first hand impressions it's visually pretty impressive on a 4K HDR TV in which case maybe I will pick it up the next time I buy a TV... That's it really, I don't see much else to get either excited or disappointed about, it is what it is, it does a job, end of story?
It's not exactly what I wanted it to be but it's not harming me in any way. Judging from some of the first hand impressions it's visually pretty impressive on a 4K HDR TV in which case maybe I will pick it up the next time I buy a TV... That's it really, I don't see much else to get either excited or disappointed about, it is what it is, it does a job, end of story?
EdReedFan20
Member
He's not wrong, though. There were people that were simply put off by it (on NeoGAF, to boot) initially. I was for a quick second also, but got used to it very quickly. I remember people saying they would opt for the 30 fps mode regardless of the 60 fps option.
Why don't you just read through the thread yourself?
You know, the place where people are literally reacting to your incorrect comments.
I'll take a stab at this. I'm on mobile, so I unfortunately can't do time stamps. Instead of trying to cite specific examples, I'll try and give you an overall impression of how your perspective is disconnected.
1. You guys continue to spout this rhetoric that PlayStation Pro is a marginal upgrade- while Scorpio is a "giant leap forward". The reality is: the power difference between PlayStation Pro and Scorpio is roughly the same difference between PS4 and Xbox One. This argument undermines and twists reality and unfortunately continues this mistaken belief that Scorpio is somehow this "Beast" - while PlayStation Pro is going to fall apart at the seams. The two machine are much closer than you realize and unfortunately the press has run away with this ill-informed tales of 4 versus 6, without taking into account that percentage wise the gap is pretty much identical to what we have now.
The real question I'd ask is: Is Scorpio powerful enough to adequately distinguish itself graphically from PlayStation Pro? The higher in resolution you go, the smaller the differences become. I honestly expected more out of the conversation.
2. You guys continue to insinuate that 1080p users will only see "marginal" improvements. This couldn't be further from the truth. One of the poorest communicated (by Sony) messages at the PS Pro Meeting was just how substantial the upgrades to 1080p would be.
Here's one example: 1080p users will get a super-sampled image- which without going into a technobabble - is probably the holy grail when it comes to improve the actual image quality. If you can hunt down a gaming PC, I want you to boot up GTA V on a 1080p set. Play the game in native 1080p and than super sample it from 1600p. That's the type of jump PS4 Pro will get you, and it's quite impressive.
We also haven't touched on improved effects, higher quality post processing, fewer framedrops etc. etc. etc. The point is - the 1080p user will get a 1080p game that is polished to a shine that only PC gamers have been able to appreciate to this day.
3. This isn't a dig at your fundamentals or passions, but it would be nice if you brushed up on technical specs. Like- did you know: The PS4 Pro has hardware dedicated on the GPU to help reduce the artifacts from their checkerboard rendering method? This might sound alien- but it's a 15-20 minute video away from all of us wanting to give Mark Cerny a high five.
I implore you to download the gamersyde video of Horizon: Zero Dawn running in uncompressed quality and play it back on a 4K monitor or hell even watch the 1080p "high bit rate" stream. The jump in quality from the original PS4 is quite substantial.
5. Please stop casting this shadow that PlayStation gamers can't be "graphics enthusiasts". Sony's first party puts out the best looking, tehcnically proficient games and hires the most talented programmers in the business. It's a testament to just how strong Sony believes in visuals when they quite literally set the benchmark for fidelity on aging hardware when PC's that magnitudes more powerful don't even get those games.
When I did QA at Nintendo 6 years ago, we had this small minority of PS3 heads (pre-Slim) that were massive graphics afficianados and could articulate just how complex and incredible the minutia of what Naughty Dog in Uncharted 1 or Insomniac in Resistance 1 (the glass breaking anyone
) were pulling off. Gameplay trumps graphics, but some of us value both, and value graphics a lot. I say this as a dual PC / Console gamer. I'm not reaching when I say this: the best looking games are on PlayStation.I love what you guys do - I just want you to give PS4 Pro a fair shake. Thanks for listening, and I'll continue the support. P.S. sorry for typos, I'm on mobile.
We're just asking you to take our viewpoints in consideration Colin as to how your managing the podcast, and hopefully manage your opinions with more citations when you move into topics you aren't knowledgeable about.
If your going to double down on information, let us help you maybe gain a bit more perspective on the matter you might be more open to instead of ranting for hours on end without absis. Fans don't want to hear that, and i don't think the fans of the podcast deserve that from you guys either.
Its frustrating listening to a podcast for all intents and purposes we expect to be fairly on top of things as to Sony's strategy and basic technical matters, yet have to listen to straw men arguments about how Pro brings no benefits for people interested in the device, yet somehow makes everything in the gaming industry worse according to you, with no real actual basis for said arguments considering it barely changes anything outside of having two console SKU's instead of one.
Having to hear the same false comparisons to Xbox One S in terms of value, as if they were competing in the same space, as if you didn't know the significant technical advantages Pro brings.
And gaming wise in general ,having to hear the same nonsense about FFXV and about how old you were when it was announced despite all of us obviously having the exact same experience as you with Versus 13...making dumb claims about how SE should just close up their Japanese division because their western division is the only one that matters even though that is obviously wrong and makes no sense.
Yeah, you should expect us to be a little bit peeved about how your behavior affects the fanbase when your ranting and raving absolutely does not line up with objective or informative analysis we want from you.
This criticism is only to help you guys run a better show,i don't think a lot of people want to hear angry misinformation and redirection over the internet like its a youtube comment section
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
I think most of your criticism of the PS4 Pro and Sony's messaging is spot on, though I think you are overstating the impact of their potential blunder. I care about visual fidelity and frame rate stability, I don't like Windows, I don't own a desktop (that market is shrinking dramatically, anyway), I think the PS4 Pro is cool. I take issue with your broader criticisms of the medium. I think they're misguided, but to be fair, you're not the only one who has complained about creative stagnation in the industry. You complained about them making a more powerful box with the specific intention to boost graphical fidelity and performance instead of gameplay experience but they're the only console manufacturer with a VR headset launching this year. They are literally the only company trying to expand the gaming experience on console.
The games medium has reached a maturation point, specifically in regard to the experience you can craft with a standard controller. An argument can be made that this point was actually reached in the PS2/Xbox era, but the augmentation of the Dualshock by adding motion control did lead to some new gaming experience (you can argue few of them were of notable quality though). If you're looking for new gaming experiences you're going to have to find ways to either augment the input device (SIXAXIS approach) or build an entirely new input device and viewing standard (VR).
Like some of your peers, you tend to try and separate the technology (read: specs/graphics) and artistic (read: gameplay) sides of gaming and I don't understand why. These things are inextricably tied to one another, in a closer way than any other art medium. More capable hardware leads to bigger worlds, denser worlds, better visualized worlds and characters, better A.I systems, better physics systems—the more power you have to work with, the greater the experience you can build. These sides aren't waring with one another and because the medium is so supporting of independent development (at least in comparison to the film industry I hail from) you're seeing a lot of different experiences crop up from unexpected places.
TL;DR: I think you and the team do great work. Your criticisms are mostly fair but holes can be poked in them. New experiences require radically different hardware, not just more powerful hardware.
P.S: Most of these cats just don't want to hear someone speak ill of Sony, lol.
Omnistalgic
Member
@Thuway, great breakdown man...Well said.
At the very least, we can all agree that Sony really fumbled the messaging on this thing. But as I said from week 1, everyone will start to soften. Once things are out, FF15 is running better on Pro, devs start praising it, sales go up. I think Sony fumbled out of the gate with a good product.
And yes, still love Colin, would never be able to suffer through PSILY with Greg’s happy smiling face all the time, they’re a good team. j/k
At the very least, we can all agree that Sony really fumbled the messaging on this thing. But as I said from week 1, everyone will start to soften. Once things are out, FF15 is running better on Pro, devs start praising it, sales go up. I think Sony fumbled out of the gate with a good product.
And yes, still love Colin, would never be able to suffer through PSILY with Greg’s happy smiling face all the time, they’re a good team. j/k
Lockjaw333
Member
Colin, I actually respect the opinions you offered, and I think it's EXTEMELY healthy discourse that Sony needs to hear. You are ingrained in the Playstation scene and one of the most knowledgeable voices in the PS ecosystem (along with Greg), and I think strong criticism of what sony is doing coming from you is refreshing. I'm not sure if everyone expects you to side with sony, or give them the benefit of the doubt on every decision they make just because you are a playstation guy, but sometimes it's seems that way. Honestly I prefer that you keep it real and if you strongly disagree with something sony does, you voice your objection. It's what I want to hear as a listener. The alternative would be pretty boring.
Also you favorite band is 311, which is also my favorite band (I've only seen them 18 times!) so even if I disagree with you on something, you get a pass
I don't think you want to bring that kind of viewpoint in here. Nobody is arguing that Sony botched their selling of the device to the masses.
But Colin and friends are supposed to be the ones who know better and actually give an objective viewpoint and some insight that show that they actually are knowledgeable about basic technical information when making their opinions clear.
This is supposedly the biggest playstation based podcast out there, they need to step up their game. Nobody is asking them to be blind fanboys, but approach the subjects they tackle with some nuance and understanding of the subject matter offering actual pros and cons.
I really don't understand what you guys don't understand about the purpose of PS4P? It's there to cater to people who want to remain in the Playstation ecosystem, but also desire the extra performance a product like PS4P brings.
You kept asking who is this for over and over. It's clear who it's for. Sony has said who it's for. I own a powerful PC. I can't play Madden on my PC in 4k. I can't play GT on my PC in 4k. I'm willing to pay more money to get a console experience at 4k. It's that simple. What's wrong with Sony offering a product to people like me? You don't like it. Ok, cool. You don't have to buy it. Guess what? Your PS4 games will be just fine on your standard PS4, and it's no hair off your or my back. We get that you guys don't want a 4K TV etc etc. There is a small slice of folks out there who do, and want content to feed that TV. It's not a big deal. But to sit up there and keep blasting over and over and over who is this for comes off as "I don't like this therefore it's stupid".
It's also going to have a 5ghz AC wifi chip which IMO is the more exciting development. The PS4 wifi is absolutely garbage.
get2sammyb
Member
That's not true at all. No one gives a crap whether the cast likes or dislikes a particular Sony product, and virtually everyone here will agree that they could have done a better job explaining PS4 Pro at the presser.
Having said that, while plenty of the blame can be laid at Sony's feet for poor communication, there comes a point where one has to do their research in order to make informed opinions on something.
If, at the end of that process, you still think something's garbage, then at least you can make your point based on actual facts. Which is all people are asking for!
Omnistalgic
Member
definitely, I hope Colin is not taking away that we just want him to tone down on beating up Sony, lol...beat them up! That’s when they come out swinging with popular voices reach them. And that meeting was soooooo boring OMG! I like the suggestion that they should have it for press and not live streamed it. Maybe just did a live stream at PSX or something with new games announcements. Sony deserves a beating for that.
but yeah, I can’t say any better what Thuway already did so elegantly. I think he sums up most genuine posters here feelings fairly nicely. I don’t want to speak for everyone, but that’s what we are taking issue with Colin, it might be some stuff that’s boring to you, but it might give you a different perspective.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
KF's one real messaging flaw is them continuing to claim the PS4 Pro is closer to the Xbox One S than the Scorpio (a point that Thurway touched on above). It is so painfully incorrect that I'm surprised someone from Sony hasn't emailed them and threatened to crack some skulls if they don't correct it. The PS4 Pro is significantly more powerful than an Xbox One S and slightly less powerful than what we THINK the Scorpio is.
Other than people sharing that gripe a lot of this thread was "WHY DOESN'T HE LIKE THIS LIKE I DO?!"
andythinkpad
Member
Greg reading your post. What they're doing obviously works, they're making fucktons of money through Patreon, Twitch and sponsors. They've built a dedicated community of fans who are really into the brand.
Sucks you're not enjoying them but I sure as shit hope they aren't reading your comments and changing things because I'm loving pretty much everything they put out.
If you follow gaming press at all you know no gaming journalist outfit last forever. By forever I mean 5 years.
Omnistalgic
Member
True no doubt there’s some of that in here as well...Everyone’s human. There’s been enough reasoned well thought out posts though, I’m sure those are the ones that give Colin a reason to come in and posts.
Last week though, yeah, I would have dropped a GIF and left too! Everyone was passionate.
EDIT: To be fair to fans reacting with indifference or even negatively towards PSPro, is it much much easier for enthusiasts to get information that Sony lacked in the conference. Likely, most people won’t
“get it” until they are playing Tomb Raider on their PS4P in November and wondering why it feels a little bit smoother when I’m playing, or why the game looks so much cleaner and sharper? “Did my TV get better?” lol...
Sony fumbled this thing in the end, and media sites and forums are piecing it back together. As a gamer that focuses on story, dialog, and generally getting a sense or spirit of what a game is trying to a accomplish, I can see why an hour long conference focused on tech specs can be unappealing to Colin and others of the community.
The biggest issues I have with their positions on PS4 Pro are:
- That Xbox One S can do pretty much the same thing. So incredibly wrong, and frankly, a stupid thing to say. Tim was guilty as well on last week's episode. Just because the S has HDR and can play UHD's does not mean it can play games at the same graphical fidelity as the Pro... hell it still can't even match up to the base model PS4.
- That Scorpio is a good move for MS because they admit they lost. Not really... their messaging around this upgrade is even more confusing than Sony's, and comes with a lot more question marks- launch date, price, next gen or not, exclusives or not, native 4k or not? As others have said, it's nothing but an idea right now, and people are praising it without knowing anything about it.
We DO know what PS4Pro is about, and we know it will be priced extremely aggressively, and we know how it will enhance games. Colin, take a look at Digital Foundry's Pro video if you need some reputable hands on impressions. These guys are as picky and critical as anyone...
- That Xbox One S can do pretty much the same thing. So incredibly wrong, and frankly, a stupid thing to say. Tim was guilty as well on last week's episode. Just because the S has HDR and can play UHD's does not mean it can play games at the same graphical fidelity as the Pro... hell it still can't even match up to the base model PS4.
- That Scorpio is a good move for MS because they admit they lost. Not really... their messaging around this upgrade is even more confusing than Sony's, and comes with a lot more question marks- launch date, price, next gen or not, exclusives or not, native 4k or not? As others have said, it's nothing but an idea right now, and people are praising it without knowing anything about it.
We DO know what PS4Pro is about, and we know it will be priced extremely aggressively, and we know how it will enhance games. Colin, take a look at Digital Foundry's Pro video if you need some reputable hands on impressions. These guys are as picky and critical as anyone...
Bolivar687
Banned
The only part of this podcast which could possibly be spun as "misinformation" is where Goldfarb considers the Pro closer to the S than to Scorpio. And even then, he seems to be discussing how these products are positioned on the market rather than the hard teraflop numbers.
Almost everything being pointed out here are opinions. No one is obligated to accept whether the improvement is substantial or marginal, how many consumers actually want this, or whether their opinion is unfair relative to the Scorpio.
Almost everything being pointed out here are opinions. No one is obligated to accept whether the improvement is substantial or marginal, how many consumers actually want this, or whether their opinion is unfair relative to the Scorpio.
Colin if you haven't noticed, there's a recurring theme that you've inaccurately misinformed the masses on the potential and power enhancements of PS4 Pro. Sony is partly to blame, but as a member of the press, and the most respected Playstation Podcast - your listeners deserve better commentary.
Also if you haven't, try contacting someone at Sony to get a 4K HDR setup because its extremely important to accurately reproduce the jump in fidelity.
HDR and super sampling is almost as large as the jump from SD to HD. If you need recomendation I can dm you a list as well.
Also if you haven't, try contacting someone at Sony to get a 4K HDR setup because its extremely important to accurately reproduce the jump in fidelity.
HDR and super sampling is almost as large as the jump from SD to HD. If you need recomendation I can dm you a list as well.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
"We dont need marginally better graphics"
*1 hour later*
"Look how good Bioshock looks!" lol
*1 hour later*
"Look how good Bioshock looks!" lol