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PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast

Anticol

Banned
The biggest issues I have with their positions on PS4 Pro are:

- That Xbox One S can do pretty much the same thing. So incredibly wrong, and frankly, a stupid thing to say. Tim was guilty as well on last week's episode. Just because the S has HDR and can play UHD's does not mean it can play games at the same graphical fidelity as the Pro... hell it still can't even match up to the base model PS4.


This is the biggest issue, they are spreading lies by saying they are the same, and also they way they portrayed the difference between systems is laughable, saying the leap between ps4,xbones to ps4 pro is minimum but at the same time saying the leap from ps4 pro to scorpio is huge when in fact the difference between the base models and the pro is bigger than the one between the pro and the scorpio.

They are just showing how clueless they are, which would be fine if their opinions didn't influence a large amount of other people's.
 

kevin1025

Banned
I'm actually honestly surprised about the reaction to this particular episode. I found it to be fair, interesting, and fun to record. I got up from the table and felt positive about the show, especially after last week, when we were shooting from the hip and muddled the message somewhat. I read the news, injected commentary, brought someone on who I literally spoke to for zero seconds about PS4 Pro and didn't know where he even stood, and even sought out a meaty letter from our forums presenting a different argument that contrasts and conflicts with mine.

So here's the thing: if you have a problem with Episode 52, grab a time stamp, and tell me what I'm "wrong" about and/or what you take so much of an issue with. I'm sitting here listening intently to the episode (something I never do), I'm roughly an hour in, and I still can't figure out what was said that causes this much vitriol. To reiterate, I'm not listening casually. I'm sitting here listening carefully. The reaction here actually comes off as a little over-the-top, if I'm going to be honest.

I hope you are all well, and that you have a great rest of your week. -Colin

At 7:00 onward, you say you have a "massive problem" with graphical improvement based on Andrew House's comments. It's completely fine to say you aren't chasing graphics and visuals, but to call something an "unforced error" multiple times and to try and negate other people's positive views to this technology is fairly hard to sit through. I think it's that you are harping on the need for gameplay enhancements and new forms of fun in games, which the Pro never intended on doing. It's the higher end phone, if we're looking at something similar.

So for me, it's that you are dismissing something that isn't targeted at you in the first place. Your argument of "find me a game that couldn't run on PS3 or PS2" is effectively saying that games are stagnating and aren't improving. The improvements are in the visuals, the amount of things that can be done in the games, the systems running in the background, etc. If you don't care about those, it's fine to say that, but your argument is that these things are "not a good example."

But then you also mention the Scorpio, and how "the weaker console is often the winner." Would that not be the Pro, in a year's time, then? Plus, with the Scorpio, their big thing at its "announcement" was that "no one will be left behind." It's essentially going to do what the Pro is doing, but you're giving it "a pass" (time stamp: 12:55) because it's coming later.

So in short, it's that you're being negative on something that isn't entirely for you. It will have improvements on games that support the Pro, which have been steadily announced since the Playstation Meeting. There is an audience for it, as this thread and other places have shown. But not everything is for us specifically, and that doesn't always equal a bad thing.
 

bigjig

Member
Say what you will about Microsoft, you gotta hand it to their marketing team. Managing to hoodwink the masses into thinking the Xbone S is anywhere even close to the PS4 Pro in terms of power, getting them to think that "preseason" exclusives don't matter haha.

As a veteran of the VG industry, I had thought Colin "#Colinwasright" Moriaty would be able to see through the bullshit. Guess I was wrong.
 

Bluenoser

Member
The only part of this podcast which could possibly be spun as "misinformation" is where Goldfarb considers the Pro closer to the S than to Scorpio. And even then, he seems to be discussing how these products are positioned on the market rather than the hard teraflop numbers.

Almost everything being pointed out here are opinions. No one is obligated to accept whether the improvement is substantial or marginal, how many consumers actually want this, or whether their opinion is unfair relative to the Scorpio.

Thought you were tired of Sony-GAF? No one is forcing you to stay.

And there was more misinformation than just that one comment by Goldfarb.
 

krae_man

Member
I'm actually honestly surprised about the reaction to this particular episode. I found it to be fair, interesting, and fun to record. I got up from the table and felt positive about the show, especially after last week, when we were shooting from the hip and muddled the message somewhat. I read the news, injected commentary, brought someone on who I literally spoke to for zero seconds about PS4 Pro and didn't know where he even stood, and even sought out a meaty letter from our forums presenting a different argument that contrasts and conflicts with mine.

So here's the thing: if you have a problem with Episode 52, grab a time stamp, and tell me what I'm "wrong" about and/or what you take so much of an issue with. I'm sitting here listening intently to the episode (something I never do), I'm roughly an hour in, and I still can't figure out what was said that causes this much vitriol. To reiterate, I'm not listening casually. I'm sitting here listening carefully. The reaction here actually comes off as a little over-the-top, if I'm going to be honest.

I hope you are all well, and that you have a great rest of your week. -Colin

I'm not all the way through yet but the only thing you said that didn't make sense to me is implying that Pro won't have a significant impact on VR since it doesn't remove the requirement of the processing box. Then later you mention that would be a dumb thing to do anyway because they have enough SKU's on stores shelves already(about 22 minute mark). Removing the processing box just negates part of the benefit of Pro and reduces resources available to make the game.

VR needs more processing power. Personally I think one of the fundamental problems with VR right now is way too much processing power is needed to hit the resolution and framerate needed to make it believable and there's no room to make the game which is why two years in we are still just getting tech demos.

Two years ago I tried PSVR for the first time at the first PSX and I got a demo where you stood in a shark cage. Two weeks ago I played a demo where I just stood in a bat cave. That's not much progress.

Unfortunately, I think it will stay that way since there will be an arms race to a FOV equal to real life and a pixel density greater then the human eye can see but we'll save that argument for when VR2 is announced. For now there's more system resources to make a game which they clearly need badly.

Goldfarb said some factually inaccurate things though so far:

1) You can buy a frankenstick and a NFC reader to make a new 3ds out of an old 3ds. Not correct. New 3DS has increased system specs, the better 3D screen with a wider viewing angle etc(23 minutes)

2) Xbox one S more on par with Pro then Scorpio. The only thing we know about Scorpio is it's target TF which is 6. Xbox one S is 1.4TF. PS4 Pro is 4.2 TF.

4.2 is closer to 6 then 1.4.


The only other then I would add is the miscommunication regarding the lack of 4k Bluray support. I would never assume a feature like that exists unless it was specifically mentioned as included. Everyone is just surprised Sony didn't include it.

Sure you can have an argument over if it should or should not have been included via either reducing another component so they can still hit the $399 price point like say dropping the 1tb drive to 500gb or A GPU reduction, or bumping the price to $429 or whatever but there was no confusion, just amazement at the decision.
 
From now on when we have a complaint should we timestamp it? Does the iphone podcast app sink up with the youtube video for time? I'm assuming rough estimates are also cool--but there are also a good amount of posts in the last pages that don't include timestamps and reference WHEN something was said, I would also think someone would remember what they said
unless it was just a rant.
 
I fundamentally disagree with Colin's thoughts regarding the PS4 Pro. I cannot tell if he just desperately wanted to be sold on it or what, but another poster here said it best when he explained the machine simply isn't that big of a deal. The PS4 launched at $400, here's a new $400 device with a little extra kick, but that thing you bought before? We brought the price on that down.

It's just a normal PS4, but for 2016/17. Not hard to understand.

But, while I disagree with Colin, I don't take any offense with what he said. I enjoy his perspective and commentary for most things. The only thing that bugged me about the episode was his shot at the mentality of NeoGaf users (called out specifically) as if we are all one hive mind.

We're here because we love games and this is how we get to talk about them. If I could get paid to talk about them, I would, but I'm not. Don't try and make me feel bad about that...

Edit: an ad on the bottom of this page has reminded me, any idea when the guys might get VR sets from Sony? Colin specifically seems like one of the most EXCITED influencers when it comes to VR and I neeeeed updated impressions on some VR games, especially RIGS

Edit 2: also forgot to mention I always love having Andrew on. He's a delight, and often has different tastes in games from KF so it's refreshing.

Would have liked to ask the pair of Moriarty and Goldfarb a nintendo focused question: if the PS4 Pro really is a canary in the coal mine, is there a chance a dream-nx-infused Nintendo could swoop in and be the king of gaming again? What would have to happen?

I think that would make for a fun discussion!
 
I listened to a bit of this today. I still don't understand why the pro is causing so much confusion for them. It's an enhanced PS4, and priced as such. It exists along side the base PS4 so as to provide the option to the enthusiast consumer who may happen to want a bit more performance or some extra visual fidelity for $400 instead of $300. I'm not seeing how this is some earth-shattering "throw the PlayStation ecosystem out of balance" type of change. The nice thing about the pro is that it's enough of a jump that the enthusiasts will have that option to satisfy them, but not big enough that current owners or people looking to jump in at the base $300 will feel left out. I like the choice it presents to the customer.

Take myself for example. I own a 4K tv and a PS4, and I will probably jump on the pro as I am impressed with what I have seen and I feel the $400 price is very fair. Its as simple as that. I don't feel pressured to buy the pro, I don't feel like I will be left out if I don't, and to be honest, I would probably be happy just sticking to my PS4 until PS5, but I have that choice.

I feel the "Who is this for" and "No one has 4K tvs" and "No one asked for this" comments are becoming kind of silly. The forced doom and gloom isn't really clicking with me.
 

j_rocca42

Member
If nothing else, this thread has been enjoyable to read over the last week or so! I recently bought a 4K tv so the ps4p is a no-brainer for me. Can't wait for horizon in 4K!
 

pastrami

Member
So here's the thing: if you have a problem with Episode 52, grab a time stamp, and tell me what I'm "wrong" about and/or what you take so much of an issue with.

Right off the bat (~5:00), you read a statement from Andrew House about why they made the PS4 Pro. Goldfarb immediately asks "Why?" and you question why any of it is necessary. You literally just read why.

The next 15 minutes are not much better. Didn't listen beyond 20 minutes.
 

RoKKeR

Member
The only part of this podcast which could possibly be spun as "misinformation" is where Goldfarb considers the Pro closer to the S than to Scorpio. And even then, he seems to be discussing how these products are positioned on the market rather than the hard teraflop numbers.

Almost everything being pointed out here are opinions. No one is obligated to accept whether the improvement is substantial or marginal, how many consumers actually want this, or whether their opinion is unfair relative to the Scorpio.

This. The reaction in this thread seems to be a bit overblown.

Right off the bat (~5:00), you read a statement from Andrew House about why they made the PS4 Pro. Goldfarb immediately asks "Why?" and you question why any of it is necessary. You literally just read why.

The next 15 minutes are not much better. Didn't listen beyond 20 minutes.

Colin's response (my take on it at least) is that the console space has not been the place for people who want the very latest in graphical capabilities/hardware, which is exactly why those people gravitate towards PC mid-generation. I don't think he sees that as being something that resonates with what is generally accepted about console hardware life-cycles.
 

pastrami

Member
Colin's response (my take on it at least) is that the console space isn't the place for people who want the very latest in graphical capabilities/hardware, which is why those people gravitate towards PC mid-generation. I don't think he sees that as being something that resonates with what is generally accepted about console hardware life-cycles.

So Sony is supposed to just give up on those people? They shouldn't try to take measures to keep those people in their ecosystem? Just throw their hands up in the air and say "Well, at least we still have the people who don't care as much about graphics."
 

RoKKeR

Member
So Sony is supposed to just give up on those people? They shouldn't try to take measures to keep people in their ecosystem?

When their response is a piece of hardware that only really stands up to current, 2016 mid-range PCs, then some might argue the investment they are making in this product might not be worthwhile.
 

Smokey

Member
I listened to a bit of this today. I still don't understand why the pro is causing so much confusion for them. It's an enhanced PS4, and priced as such. It exists along side the base PS4 so as to provide the option to the enthusiast consumer who may happen to want a bit more performance or some extra visual fidelity for $400 instead of $300. I'm not seeing how this is some earth-shattering "throw the PlayStation ecosystem out of balance" type of change. The nice thing about the pro is that it's enough of a jump that the enthusiasts will have that option to satisfy them, but not big enough that current owners or people looking to jump in at the base $300 will feel left out. I like the choice it presents to the customer.

Take myself for example. I own a 4K tv and a PS4, and I will probably jump on the pro as I am impressed with what I have seen and I feel the $400 price is very fair. Its as simple as that. I don't feel pressured to buy the pro, I don't feel like I will be left out if I don't, and to be honest, I would probably be happy just sticking to my PS4 until PS5, but I have that choice.

I feel the "Who is this for" and "No one has 4K tvs" and "No one asked for this" comments are becoming kind of silly. The forced doom and gloom isn't really clicking with me.

Yeah this is what I was getting at in my previous post. Just because it's not maintstream, or YOU don't have any interest in 4k/hdr, doesn't mean other enthusiasts dont.
 
Colin, thanks for responding in this thread.

I would feel a lot better if you at least owned how off base you guys are in your comparisons of PS4 Pro and XB1S. Someone above me has now even posted raw numbers to show that PS4 Pro is much closer to the Scorpio than to the XB1S (which is actually still weaker than the base PS4).
 

pastrami

Member
When their response is a piece of hardware that only really stands up to current, 2016 mid-range PCs, then some might argue the investment they are making in this product might not be worthwhile.

The new round of graphics cards offer insane value for their money. But Sony offering 100% more graphical power for 33% more money seems like a fine value proposition for consoles.
 

Moneal

Member
Colin is right about two things.

1. The PS4 Pro is unnecessary.
2. Sony should have announced a real PS5 next year for a 2018 release.

I don't know why people keep thinking that a ps5 will be out in 2018. It won't be cheap enough to produce a console with the power people expect from a next gen console until at least 2019.

When their response is a piece of hardware that only really stands up to current, 2016 mid-range PCs, then some might argue the investment they are making in this product might not be worthwhile.

They aren't going after the guys that buy titans. They are trying to keep the people that get midrange cards toward the end of gens to play multiplats. Thats exactly what the Pro could do.
 

thuway

Member
Colin is right about two things.

1. The PS4 Pro is unnecessary.
2. Sony should have announced a real PS5 next year for a 2018 release.
2019 is the next big breakthrough and when you will see PS5. Unfortunately the perspective and how technology evolves is lost on a lot of people.

The only reason we are getting these new consoles is because lithography changed from 28nm to 14 nm. The 7 nm shrink alongside affordable HBM 3 memory is 2019.
 
I don't know why people keep thinking that a ps5 will be out in 2018. It won't be cheap enough to produce a console with the power people expect from a next gen console until at least 2019.

I think it could be announced in 2018 and released in 2019. That would mean three years (2013-2016) of PS4 and three years (2016-2019) of PS4 Slim/PS4 Pro. Essentially a six year generation. PS1 went from six years (1994-2000) before PS2 launched. PS2 went six years (2000-2006) before PS3 launched. PS3 went seven years (2006-2013) before PS4 launched. PSP went six years (2005-2011) before Vita launched. All but one system (not counting the Vita/PS4, as they are current) has lasted six years before a successor launched. For all the people who thought the PS3 generation went far too long, it only went one year longer than every other PlayStation console. Sony has been quite consistent in the length of their console generations.
 

jdmonmou

Member
So Sony is supposed to just give up on those people? They shouldn't try to take measures to keep those people in their ecosystem? Just throw their hands up in the air and say "Well, at least we still have the people who don't care as much about graphics."

Those people that went to PC will still play on console for the exclusives. Exclusives are really Sony's only weapon against PC because releasing consoles every 3 years is a losing strategy. Sony's resources would've been better spent by making 1 or 2 new 1st party exclusive titles rather than developing the PS4 Pro.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Colin is right about two things.

1. The PS4 Pro is unnecessary.
2. Sony should have announced a real PS5 next year for a 2018 release.

2018 would be horrible, it would be just like this gen, too early to take advantage of better specifications and architectures. Both Xbox 1 and PS4 were both only a few months off of being able to take advantage of PUMA architecture, which would have given the CPU's a good boost to performance per clock with less heat concerns than jaguar


I think it could be announced in 2018 and released in 2019. That would mean three years (2013-2016) of PS4 and three years (2016-2019) of PS4 Slim/PS4 Pro. Essentially a six year generation. PS1 went from six years (1994-2000) before PS2 launched. PS2 went six years (2000-2006) before PS3 launched. PS3 went seven years (2006-2013) before PS4 launched. Sony has been quite consistent in the length of their console generations. PSP also went six years (2005-2011) before Vita launched. All but one (not counting the Vita/PS4 generations as they are current) system has lasted six years before a successor launched,

Exactly my thoughts.

Those people that went to PC will still play on console for the exclusives. Exclusives are really Sony's only weapon against PC because releasing consoles every 3 years is a losing strategy. Sony's resources would've been better spent by making 1 or 2 new 1st party exclusive titles rather than developing the PS4 Pro.

Your a good guy, but this is mistaken. Sony's hardware guys have literally zero to do with their developer studio arm of the company.
 

pastrami

Member
Those people that went to PC will still play on console for the exclusives. Exclusives are really Sony's only weapon against PC because releasing consoles every 3 years is a losing strategy. Sony's resources would've been better spent by making 1 or 2 new 1st party exclusive titles rather than developing the PS4 Pro.

Sony's goal isn't to sell their first party games. Their goal is to get people to use their ecosystem so that they get 30% of everyone else's game. Otherwise they could just put their games on PC. So no, developing 1 or 2 new 1st party exclusives doesn't address the problem that Sony is attempting to solve with the PS4 Pro.
 

Moneal

Member
I think it could be announced in 2018 and released in 2019. That would mean three years (2013-2016) of PS4 and three years (2016-2019) of PS4 Slim/PS4 Pro. Essentially a six year generation. PS1 went from six years (1994-2000) before PS2 launched. PS2 went six years (2000-2006) before PS3 launched. PS3 went seven years (2006-2013) before PS4 launched. PSP went six years (2005-2011) before Vita launched. All but one (not counting the Vita/PS4 generations as they are current) system has lasted six years before a successor launched. For all the people who thought the PS3 generation went far too long, it only went one year longer than every other PlayStation console. Sony has been quite consistent in the length of their console generations.

Sure thats great in a vacuum. But with the Scorpio coming next year the Pro makes sense for this year. PS4 vs Scorpio would be a stupid idea until PS5 came out. That would be a rough 2 years.
 
2019 is the next big breakthrough and when you will see PS5. Unfortunately the perspective and how technology evolves is lost on a lot of people.

The only reason we are getting these new consoles is because lithography changed from 28nm to 14 nm. The 7 nm shrink alongside affordable HBM 3 memory is 2019.

Do you think we're getting a shorter console generation than the last one, even though they're seemingly breathing longevity into this one?
 

thuway

Member
Sure thats great in a vacuum. But with the Scorpio coming next year the Pro makes sense for this year. PS4 vs Scorpio would be a stupid idea until PS5 came out. That would be a rough 2 years.
What? Playstation Pro would be cheaper, have more units in the market, and whenever Scorpio has its first birthday Sony could announce a PS5. Both companies would be disrupting each other on off years.

Do you think we're getting a shorter console generation than the last one, even though they're seemingly breathing longevity into this one?

It all depends on lithography and if Global Foundries / TSMC ACTUALLY get their work done on time. The other part of the puzzle is if Playstation Pro becomes a run away success - is there any benefit in releasing PS5 earlier than expected?
 
Do you think we're getting a shorter console generation than the last one, even though they're seemingly breathing longevity into this one?

Breathing longevity? If anything Pro is a clear indication we'll see PS5 in 3 years, letting Pro sit right in the middle of a 6 year cycle.
 
It all depends on lithography and if Global Foundries / TSMC ACTUALLY get their work done on time. The other part of the puzzle is if Playstation Pro becomes a run away success - is there any benefit in releasing PS5 earlier than expected?

When would be "earlier than expected?" 2018?
 

jdmonmou

Member
Sony's goal isn't to sell their first party games. Their goal is to get people to use their ecosystem so that they get 30% of everyone else's game. Otherwise they could just put their games on PC. So no, developing 1 or 2 new 1st party exclusives doesn't address the problem that Sony is attempting to solve with the PS4 Pro.

But those people who went PC more than likely aren't coming back to PS4 as their primary platform, so Sony is going about solving this problem the wrong way. I own a PC and a PS4 and the only way I'll consider buying a game on PS4 is if: (1) the game is exclusive to PS4, (2) the PS4 version will have exclusive or timed exclusive DLC, or (3) there's a sale where the game is cheaper on PS4 than on PC.

Sony should be thinking of how to continue to make the original PS4 console valuable to the consumer through policy improvements (e.g. allowing mod support, adding benefits to a PS plus subscription, more PS store sales, etc.) and more exclusive games. I believe Sony when they say they'll continue to support the PS4, but I just think the Pro was an unnecessary move if the goal is to keep PC players hooked to PlayStation. They didn't need to make a new box to do that. Also, I really think the Pro will ultimately flop because there isn't a strong reason for existing PS4 owners to upgrade and people who haven't bought PS4 yet will likely choose the cheaper Slim model.
 

Moneal

Member
What? Playstation Pro would be cheaper, have more units in the market, and whenever Scorpio has its first birthday Sony could announce a PS5. Both companies would be disrupting each other on off years.

I was saying that without Pro, sony would be in a bad spot for 2 years while scorpio was out and everyone waited for ps5.
 

thuway

Member
I was saying that without Pro, sony would be in a bad spot for 2 years while scorpio was out and everyone waited for ps5.
This is how it's going to be going forward. Right now you see denizens of people saying wait one year for Scorpio and the reality is that 1 year in this environment is an eternity.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I was saying that without Pro, sony would be in a bad spot for 2 years while scorpio was out and everyone waited for ps5.

well that's only if they were on even ground. But if Sony had launched next year, they would have likely been around the same power bracket as Scorpio.

But they intentionally did not wait because their intent for the device was always a half step, it wasnt going full speed towards power like Scorpio.

MS has the viewpoint to take back the power crown and hopefully that hype propels them forward. Sony was just doing their own thing by comparison
 

pastrami

Member
But those people who went PC more than likely aren't coming back to PS4 as their primary platform, so Sony is going about solving this problem the wrong way. I own a PC and a PS4 and the only way I'll consider buying a game on PS4 is if: (1) the game is exclusive to PS4, (2) the PS4 version will have exclusive or timed exclusive DLC, or (3) there's a sale where the game is cheaper on PS4 than on PC.

I mean, sure, there are going to be people who have already left the ecosystem, or people who will leave anyways. But I think this is a move more targeted at people who may be thinking about switching over than those who have already made up their minds. And thanks for telling me your purchasing habits?

Sony should be thinking of how to continue to make the original PS4 console valuable to the consumer through policy improvements (e.g. allowing mod support, adding benefits to a PS plus subscription, more PS store sales, etc.) and more exclusive games. I believe Sony when they say they'll continue to support the PS4, but I just think the Pro was an unnecessary move if the goal is to keep PC players hooked to PlayStation. They didn't need to make a new box to do that. Also, I really think the Pro will ultimately flop because there isn't a strong reason for existing PS4 owners to upgrade and people who haven't bought PS4 yet will likely choose the cheaper Slim model.

None of that matters if people want better graphics or a more powerful system. Colin might have his gut feeling, but I'm sure Sony has done market research. I don't think Sony made the PS4 Pro willy nilly. There are a lot of moves I would like to see Sony make, but I don't see how offering a more powerful box for not much more than the base model is a misstep or unforced error. You can literally ignore it if you want. You'll still play every PS4 game and get every PSVR game. So even if it's not a positive, I fail to see how it's a negative.
 
When their response is a piece of hardware that only really stands up to current, 2016 mid-range PCs, then some might argue the investment they are making in this product might not be worthwhile.

When most people are moving off to 2016 mid-tier PCs, why not? The bulk of my PC gaming pals are playing on just that. If you're on console and thinking of moving over and a similar option appears, then cool. Sony tried the high-end expensive console and that shit didn't fly. Folks still talk shit about it on gaf to this day, but now people want to get pissy that they didn't make that mistake again? I don't get it.

That price-point is exactly why I'm getting a PS pro. While I could afford more, I sure as hell wouldn't pay all that much more for a console held back by 2013 hardware (og PS4). Same goes for the Scorpio, if that thing is above 400, it most likely won't happen for many gamers either. This provides what I consider enough of a boost as a decent price. It's why I got a GTX 980 rather than a Titan. They're really hard to justify unless you just HAVE to own the best.

It's sad that guys in the game industry and even on gaf are having a discussion about the PS4 pro versus a f'in Xbox one S. My OG PS4 is more power than the One S. It's a silly comparison (power-wise)and these dudes should know better. For the record, I'm not trying to shit on the Xbox one S, I've got one arriving from wal-mart (thank you Slickdeals) tomorrow to replace the original that I just sold. I just think some are being willfully obtuse on the matter.
 

jdmonmou

Member
None of that matters if people want better graphics or a more powerful system. Colin might have his gut feeling, but I'm sure Sony has done market research. I don't think Sony made the PS4 Pro willy nilly. There are a lot of moves I would like to see Sony make, but I don't see how offering a more powerful box for not much more than the base model is a misstep or unforced error. You can literally ignore it if you want. You'll still play every PS4 game and get every PSVR game. So even if it's not a positive, I fail to see how it's a negative.
We don't know yet but the PS4 Pro could have implications for existing PS4 owners if we start to see poorly optimized games coming out. It could go the other way too with PS4 Pro owners unhappy with the lack of developer support or games not optimized to take advantage of the Pro's full capabilities. It'll be difficult for Sony to please both audiences.

Also, I'll admit, I really hope iterative consoles fail because I don't want Sony and Microsoft trying to sell me a new console every 3 years. That will indeed push more people to PC.
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
We don't know yet but the PS4 Pro could have implications for existing PS4 owners if we start to see poorly optimized games coming out. It could go the other way too with PS4 Pro owners unhappy with the lack of developer support or games not optimized to take advantage of the Pro's full capabilities. It'll be difficult for Sony to please both audiences.

Also, I'll admit, I really hope iterative consoles fail because I don't want Sony and Microsoft trying to sell me a new console every 3 years. That will indeed push more people to PC.

No it won't. Gaf is indicative of nothing, get out of the bubble. The PC is as good as dead for the kinds of experiences that take the console market by storm and that's due to much stronger forces than iterative consoles can alter.
 

aadiboy

Member
I've come to realize that Colin and Greg aren't really knowledgeable on the technical aspects of games. They might be knowledgeable on game design and the business side of gaming, but they definitely fall short in the technical aspect. That's why I really have to take anything they about the PS4 pro with a grain of salt, because they seem really uninformed.
 

Purest 78

Member
I'm all for people having a opinion and expressing That opinion. I draw the line when people misinform because of their opinion. The pro is more than twice the power of The S. From a gaming standpoint they are not comparable.

I have a low tolerance for misinformation I'll no longer listen to the podcast.
 

Cyriades

Member
Colin dismiss the system, without even giving it a gaming chance. Some people can't just enjoy games and new technology. They have to put a spin on it and say it's bad for consumers.. It's sad to see really. No worries though. PS4 pro pre ordered.

We be playing games, while they be hating. We win every time.
 

Purest 78

Member
We don't know yet but the PS4 Pro could have implications for existing PS4 owners if we start to see poorly optimized games coming out. It could go the other way too with PS4 Pro owners unhappy with the lack of developer support or games not optimized to take advantage of the Pro's full capabilities. It'll be difficult for Sony to please both audiences.

Also, I'll admit, I really hope iterative consoles fail because I don't want Sony and Microsoft trying to sell me a new console every 3 years. That will indeed push more people to PC.

I honestly don't see that happening realistically both consoles were weak at launch. I've never seen a gen where consoles were so out of Date at launch. I'm very happy Sony improved the Specs with the Pro. Another 3 years with ps4 specs would have been painful.

Scorpio is essentially the start of the Next Generation for Microsoft. At 6 Teraflops they won't need to make a new console anytime soon. Pro is more of a stop-gap until PS5 imo.
 

Mezoly

Member
I honestly don't see that happening realistically both consoles were weak at launch. I've never seen a gen where consoles were so out of Date at launch. I'm very happy Sony improved the Specs with the Pro. Another 3 years with ps4 specs would have been painful.

Scorpio is essentially the start of the Next Generation for Microsoft. At 6 Teraflops they won't need to make a new console anytime soon. Pro is more of a stop-gap until PS5 imo.

Both Pro and Scorpio are still tethered to PS4 and Xbox one, so you really won't see a generational jump because all games has to run on those systems with full features. You won't see a situation like Shadow of Mordor where they striped out the nemesis system from the ps3 version. Therefore, you won't see innovations like that in pro and scorpio.
 
I'm all for people having a opinion and expressing That opinion. I draw the line when people misinform because of their opinion. The pro is more than twice the power of The S. From a gaming standpoint they are not comparable.

I have a low tolerance for misinformation I'll no longer listen to the podcast.

That's what I don't get about it. That's an opinion you'd expect from the Xbox sub, not those guys. It was a stupid ass comparison to begin with.
 
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