He's on Gaf it's highly unlikely he doesn't know what a 2× more powerful Gpu and a upclocked Cpu means. Seems to me he has a Agenda he doesn't like the Idea. So he's trying his best to shit on it. I feel it's impossible to be in the gaming industry and on gaf, and be that ignorant about this stuff.
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He's on Gaf it's highly unlikely he doesn't know what a 2× more powerful Gpu and a upclocked Cpu means. Seems to me he has a Agenda he doesn't like the Idea. So he's trying his best to shit on it. I feel it's impossible to be in the gaming industry and on gaf, and be that ignorant about this stuff.
Well I don't think intent is malicious, it is however incredibly ignorant to say that One S is just as powerful as Pro. Crap like this coming from former journalist and folks who are in position of influence, yeah, I would call this FUD.
notaxation
Neo Member
I came here, hat-in-hand and willing to have a dialogue about whatever I said in the podcast that was "wrong" or otherwise infuriated people to such a, frankly, ridiculous degree. All I wanted were quotes and/or time stamps (or preferably both). Dozens and dozens of posts later, one person chose to take me up on that, while most others chose to hurl whatever nonsense they wanted at me, taking me up on mostly subjective issues or things that were said in Episode 51. This is relevant to me because I want to know WHAT was said, HOW it was said, and what the CONTEXT was. I'm super disappointed that tons of shit is being hurled at me, but it seems people just want to be mean and rude and not actually engage, and I'm half-convinced some of you never even listened to Episode 52. But I digress.
The vitriol, anger, and outright meanness has completely turned me off to coming here again. I still have no idea what most of you are even this upset about, and I've read all of your posts. That's just me being honest with you. I took the time to listen to the podcast carefully, and I cannot fathom what would make some of you 10% as angry as you seem. It's disconcerting, and it's strange. I don't begrudge you your right to be mad or upset with me. Folks say mean and terrible shit to me every day, and have for years. But I simply don't get it here, and I won't be engaging any further.
Many of you support PSILY and our other shows, and I truly appreciate that. I hope that for those of you who I think I'm the anti-PS4 Pro Demon Hack Who Doesn't Know Anything, you'll come back around and enjoy the show again. If not, that's fine, too. But for many of you, I'd also ask that you take stock in how you talk to and about people you don't actually know, and how entirely off-kilter the last ~5 pages of this thread has been. And over what? Someone's opinions on a video game console?
Y'all can bicker among yourselves about how terrible I am and how stupid I am and how I don't know what I'm talking about. I tried to constructively engage, but I was left disappointed. I'm moving on.
Have a pleasant evening. I hope you are all well. And I mean that. -Colin
The vitriol, anger, and outright meanness has completely turned me off to coming here again. I still have no idea what most of you are even this upset about, and I've read all of your posts. That's just me being honest with you. I took the time to listen to the podcast carefully, and I cannot fathom what would make some of you 10% as angry as you seem. It's disconcerting, and it's strange. I don't begrudge you your right to be mad or upset with me. Folks say mean and terrible shit to me every day, and have for years. But I simply don't get it here, and I won't be engaging any further.
Many of you support PSILY and our other shows, and I truly appreciate that. I hope that for those of you who I think I'm the anti-PS4 Pro Demon Hack Who Doesn't Know Anything, you'll come back around and enjoy the show again. If not, that's fine, too. But for many of you, I'd also ask that you take stock in how you talk to and about people you don't actually know, and how entirely off-kilter the last ~5 pages of this thread has been. And over what? Someone's opinions on a video game console?
Y'all can bicker among yourselves about how terrible I am and how stupid I am and how I don't know what I'm talking about. I tried to constructively engage, but I was left disappointed. I'm moving on.
Have a pleasant evening. I hope you are all well. And I mean that. -Colin
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
Yikes Colin.
I get that it must be tough to read through all of these posts since they are mostly coming from a place of being angered, disappointed, confused by what you were saying on the podcast. I probably wouldn't have thick enough skin for it.
But if you can't decipher what you said that so many people found to be misinformed, than you really aren't trying.
There are definitely posts that are mean / angry in tone but there are dozens more (the majority I'd say) that are well thought out, explain the situation, as well as give constructive criticism. A lot of them even try to placate you by explaining how they are fans of your's and care about your content (which is why they are upset).
You got what you asked for, just not served on a platter with time stamps, and you're choosing to ignore it and hide behind some mean comments. Frankly, kind of insulting to the fans who took the time to respond reasonably. But whatever it's video games.
wapplew
Member
Or MS did an awesome job with their strategic move and PR.
MS can boast power and upgrade how ever they want, whether is Scorpio 4x more powerful with VR exclusive or Slim add many feature and slightly more powerful,
not one early adopter against it or show any buyer remorse, they all seems ready for the next thing.
Sony in a harder position, they have over 40m satisfy costumers they don't want to piss off. Pro does not fit very well with Japan environment, most of them have no space for huge 4K TV.
Not to mention most Japanese publisher have yet full utilize PS4 hardware.
Should they not make Pro and release PS5 instead? Sure. But maybe they look at tech advancement and don't think it will have any breakthrough in the near future.
This is them extending the life cycle of PS4 until the tech is there for the next jump.
If their presentation doesn't compelling enough for you to upgrade, that's goal achieved. That means current PS4 owners happy with their purchase, that's their approach with mid gen upgrade imo.
I am one of the biggest anti iteration hardware person on gaf, I came out super happy after the presentation.
Pro is a PS4 revision with more than 2x the power, it priced well and I will get one at launch.
????
So you are just gonna move on. This sounds like you never intended to "engage". You even mention that someone did provide you with what you wanted, yet you didn't respond. It isn't vitriol. I watched both podcasts. Everything you said in the one this week was said last week. You still didn't mention the difference in power when comparing the xbox 1s and the ps4pro. The Pro is more than 2 times the power of the 1s. This was info we knew well before the meeting. You questioned why it was even a thing, right after reading a statement from Andrew House about why it was a thing, just because the reason doesn't pertain to you doesn't make it invalid.
Who said you were terrible or stupid? I didn't see those posts. I saw people questioning your knowledge of the technical aspects of video gaming. That is a valid concern when discussing video game consoles.
Its funny. You say you have no idea why people are upset that you have an opinion. No one is upset about your opinion. They are upset that your opinion, which influences many others, is based on either incorrect information or skewed bias.
Stillmatic
Member
PS4 Pro would be closer to 3x the power of XBOne S, considering it's more than double PS4.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
He seems to have a very skin. I didn't expect him to be the type the get overly sensitive with what I consider to be very legitimate criticism. I don't think he is stupid or terrible. If I did I would not be consuming their content as I have for years and plan to continue. I've come to expect a certain level of quality in their content and quite frankly they are not meeting it recently. I don't care if he likes the idea of PS4 Pro or not. I do expect a level of discourse from two industry veterans that is higher than what I can find on any random YouTube channel.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Once again I was proven right, focusing on the worst case examples and painting every poster with the same brush to avoid actually discussing the points people have. Oh and do forgot the child like use of technicalities to get out of losing an argument 'well you didn't technically do exactly what I said so it's your fault I'm not responding '.
As someone else mentioned, it's extremely clear what issues people have with the arguments and position being given and I honestly haven't seen any posts that I thought 'thats just mean and not constructive ' yet apparently that's all there is according to Colin.
It's just clear that he wasn't willing to have a real discussion otherwise he would have simply read the posts and consolidated them into a few pertinent issues (like many posters actually did for him to make things easier) and responded directly to these instead of using the time stamp point to get out of it and paint everyone here as simply being rude and facing him away from gaf.
As someone else mentioned, it's extremely clear what issues people have with the arguments and position being given and I honestly haven't seen any posts that I thought 'thats just mean and not constructive ' yet apparently that's all there is according to Colin.
It's just clear that he wasn't willing to have a real discussion otherwise he would have simply read the posts and consolidated them into a few pertinent issues (like many posters actually did for him to make things easier) and responded directly to these instead of using the time stamp point to get out of it and paint everyone here as simply being rude and facing him away from gaf.
I didn't see anyone insult him Plenty of Valid Questions.
Colin, if you didn't actually want to engage with our concerns, why did you come here and comment? You obviously are reading now, so it must get to you enough to comment.
But don't you think if you went that far, you should actually listen to what we're trying to say, even if you don't personally agree? We're happy to have you here discussing why we're having issues or concerned about the situation.
But don't you think if you went that far, you should actually listen to what we're trying to say, even if you don't personally agree? We're happy to have you here discussing why we're having issues or concerned about the situation.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
That's a bit weird, I thought the majority of the direct replies to Colin's earlier post were respectful, pleasant and clearly outlined why they thought his reasoning is flawed.
His latest post had me question if I was reading a different thread, IMO this is one of the better discussions going on here right now.
His latest post had me question if I was reading a different thread, IMO this is one of the better discussions going on here right now.
JStein0222
Member
Good first response. I'm sorry Colin was hurt by this, but I thought we were actually all having a pretty decent discussion! No need to take anything personally, but probably for the best if this was making him unhappy.
Colin will have his renaissance as the champion of PSVR when that comes around the corner!
Dirtyshubb
Member
It's just to give the illusion of willingness to engage, not actually attempting to do it.
Just because people didn't give him the examples in the exact way he wanted it didn't deserve a response from him it seems. Regardless of how many well written, thoughtful and considerate responses this thread had it still wasn't enough because apparently everyone here is just spouting vitriol and pure anger and not giving logical points.
I mean it's almost the 'its just video games, why so angry?' argument from Colin regardless of the level headed responses from the vast majority of posters. Just because someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean they are sitting at their desk raging at his opinions, if anything its more from a place of confusion since everyone here can see the errors of the current line of thinking based on evidence that is freely available to anyone with the Internet but apparently we are all raging, illogical people who are taking this way too seriously.
Here you are:
- 00:08:25 - Please try the other way around for a change! Find me a game that is anything like The Witcher 3 on PS2! You keep saying "we had open world role playing games", but what specifically are you talking about? I found nothing remotely similar on PS2 - PS3, sure, fine.
- 00:12:50 - We don't really know anything substantial about the Scorpio. There are 2 numbers that don't really make it leaps and bounds better than PS4 Pro, everything else is vague promises by Microsoft and hopeful speculation based on it. With the given 43% increased computational power, I can't really see Scorpio render 2 times the pixels without any tricks.
And most of all: Microsoft themselves said they will do exactly the same as Sony does, keeping the Scorpio and One as one family with full compatibility up and down. So there goes your argument that this will do anything substantial for gameplay. How could it do that without leaving the One behind? You are speculating it will, but that again is not what's on the table right now. Scorpio always gets the benefit of doubt from you in a direction that it will do everything right. - 00:25:00 - HDMI, component, composite or whatever? Do you have people coming to your home connecting the PS4 to your TV that you don't seem to know what it uses?
- 00:26:00 - Goldfarb said that the only thing that would make the Pro relevant for VR would be if "a twenty hour experience requires extra processing power", and you agreed. That is so utterly wrong on multiple levels!
1. It directly contradicts the promise that PS4 regular and Pro will be one family and you can play everything on both.
2. What does the length of the experience have to do with how demanding it is for the hardware?
3. Why is it suddenly not possible to scale back and have the same gameplay experience? You are contradicting yourself here!
4. The Pro will enhance all VR titles with at least applying supersampling, which is extremely beneficial for VR.
5. You still don't seem to get what the breakout box does. For starters, if it was integrated into the Pro, you'd have much shorter cables. But what you said about a cheaper unit and "the processing box" was inconclusive, because you didn't finish any sentence in that short part, so it is hard to judge what you really think, but it didn't sound like you know it does audio calculations and signal routing / straightening out for tv, nothing more. - 00:27:30 - The Pro being closer to the One S than Scorpio is just embarrassing to listen to. It strengthens my feeling that you both don't really get how the Pro renders 4K images (in a way) and think it is basically the same as what the One S does. Please educate yourselves, it does far better!
- 00:35:30 - Simply no, it would not be better if Sony split the user base and allowed Pro only games. They don't even allow Pro only features, and that is the exact thing keeping this one generation and not a super early successor.
- 00:42:00 - Funny how you can at length complain how Sony fucks up first party games releases, then later on happily nod when Goldfarb says Sony didn't make a single mistake this generation (until the Pro).
- 01:21:10 - Even more funny how after a very lengthy discussion of how unimportant graphics are compared to gameplay, Goldfarb gets dreamy-eyed about how much better Bioshock Remastered looks. He didn't talk at all about the performance (which is clearly better, huzzah), he explicitly talked visuals. And again, not the slightest bit of downplaying the importance of that from your side, Colin. Putting down money for improved visuals on a game you already own suddenly is a good thing again - how selective of you!
Edit: ah, looks like I was too slow and he won't be reading it. Well, too bad. I did it first thing in the morning of my time.
Hostile_18
Banned
This looks the same to me when people don't like a review score of a game they have hyped up in their minds.
It's his opinion. Not one I entirely agree with, but I don't have any anger about that in the slightest.
I agree with him when he says he dosn't get why people are getting so upset over this. Time/sales and support will decide the PS4 Pros success or failure.
Hopefully Colin and Greg won't change the way they express THEIR opinions over a few extreme fans here on Neogaf. Let them come to their own conclusions now and again later down the road when the evidence speaks for itself (either way).
Keep up the good work guys!
It's his opinion. Not one I entirely agree with, but I don't have any anger about that in the slightest.
I agree with him when he says he dosn't get why people are getting so upset over this. Time/sales and support will decide the PS4 Pros success or failure.
Hopefully Colin and Greg won't change the way they express THEIR opinions over a few extreme fans here on Neogaf. Let them come to their own conclusions now and again later down the road when the evidence speaks for itself (either way).
Keep up the good work guys!
Dirtyshubb
Member
People aren't complaining that Colin has an opinion, everyone here more than agrees that we should all be allowed our own opinions.This looks the same to me when people don't like a review score of a game they have hyped up in their minds.
It's his opinion. Not one I entirely agree with, but I don't have any anger about that in the slightest.
I agree with him when he says he dosn't get why people are getting so upset over this. Time/sales and support will decide the PS4 Pros success or failure.
Hopefully Colin and Greg won't change the way they express THEIR opinions over a few extreme fans here on Neogaf. Let them come to their own conclusions now and again later down the road when the evidence speaks for itself (either way).
Keep up the good work guys!
What people do have a problem with is that these are people who are influences to thousands of people and get paid to discuss the latest news and the statements they are making are based on incorrect facts and illogical thoughts and as such it means these ideas are being presented as fact to the thousands of people who take their words for granted.
To paint people who have a problem with false information and incorrect facts being presented by games journalists and influences as being EXTREME is disingenuous and completely ignores the issues at hand. Would we expect the news to report incorrect facts or opinions based on faulty logic? Same thing applies here, even if it is 'just video games'.
People aren't angry and lashing out for no reason as Colin and some fans are trying to make it seem, instead they are asking for logical reasoning and discussion about this and yet repeatedly get accused of being angry, caring too much and being rude when none of that is true.
Lol, I don't even know what to say to this.
Were you actually looking for pointers to where you're wrong or just trying to cause an argument? Because many posters have made very valid points.
And the fact you brought up the "we're talking about a videogame console" argument is quite frankly pathetic.
You've wasted people's time with this shocking response, and you continue to be the weak link in Kinda Funny imo.
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Maybe there were some good points in this topic but from what I've seen it was often mixed in with stuff like this. You're just going to straight up call him the weak link and say his response was pathetic? He's a guy, guy.
Me personally I thought Ep51 was frustrating, 52 less so. He was clearly a bit ranty in 51 and I thought he was clearly trying to improve on that in 52 by being more measured in his response, even if he still holds the same basic opinion. I think it's sad that he himself thought he had improved and looked forward to the discourse, because I think he had and he should have been able to come in here and talk about the episode. Maybe there are a few points he could have focused on more that would have appeased this hardcore audience more but come on. He is not pathetic or the weak link of Kinda Funny. Or maybe he is, but why don't you just keep that to yourself rather than posting it in a public forum that we know he reads.
Why do people keep on saying Sony didn't explain the advantages of the pro.
I'm sure they went through 4 areas the PS4 pro would show an improvement in and went through all of them.
We also had the document that leaked and IIRC, the specs from the leaked document were read out on one of the earlier episodes of PSILY and compared to the other consoles.
I understand for the general public, even with the leaks, that would be the first time they had heard about or seen the Pro but for us on this site who consume news about games on a daily basis, it shouldn't be hard to grasp or understand.
Could they have done a better job, yes, but I don't think it's bad to the point where you start comparing it to the Xbone S of all things, especially if you're that invested in games. First thing I do if i don't understand anything technical that is game related is come straight here to GAF or see if there are any articles on Digital Foundry or other sites that can explain it.
I'm sure they went through 4 areas the PS4 pro would show an improvement in and went through all of them.
We also had the document that leaked and IIRC, the specs from the leaked document were read out on one of the earlier episodes of PSILY and compared to the other consoles.
I understand for the general public, even with the leaks, that would be the first time they had heard about or seen the Pro but for us on this site who consume news about games on a daily basis, it shouldn't be hard to grasp or understand.
Could they have done a better job, yes, but I don't think it's bad to the point where you start comparing it to the Xbone S of all things, especially if you're that invested in games. First thing I do if i don't understand anything technical that is game related is come straight here to GAF or see if there are any articles on Digital Foundry or other sites that can explain it.
I could not care less if he's just a guy.
Some excellent posts were made in this thread and he just brushed them all aside and said he was disappointed and would avoid this place from now on.
In my opinion, he absolutely is the weak link in Kinda Funny.
"I'm super disappointed that tons of shit is being hurled at me, but it seems people just want to be mean and rude and not actually engage, and I'm half-convinced some of you never even listened to Episode 52. But I digress."
This quote is nonsense. Many posters made some well thought out posts where they explained their points well.
If he can come in here, on a public forum, and tell us he's disappointed in our responses, why can't I tell him I think his post is pathetic?
Hostile_18
Banned
He totally did cover the other side of the argument though with reading and discussing that long readers comment in detail about increased framerates etc.
Comparing them to impartial newsreaders isn't what this show is IMO.
Comparing them to impartial newsreaders isn't what this show is IMO.
Hostile_18
Banned
Calling someone a weak link into something he no doubt pour's his heart into and works hard for is out of order, and hopefully if he does read this knows it's just one persons tactless opinion.
If he works so hard for it, why is he so misinformed?
Being disappointed by the excellent posts in this thread is out of order.
Hostile_18
Banned
Well he worded it as the other side of the argument (focusing on benefits to framerate, 1080p tvs etc, rather than focusing on 4k tvs).
Not sure how much more you'd want at this early stage when much is still largely unknown, in terms of sales, developer support, effects on gameplay/performance in the real world.
I don't think we're going to agree and that's ok. I just want to say, if you're comparing the disrespect that he's shown to this topic vs. the disrespect this topic has shown him, then I don't think that's the same. There are personal attacks that have been made against him him and as a result he chose to brush aside some valid points, because he was hurt and disappointed. But do you really think they're the same? I think he has more right to feel hurt at personal attacks than we (as a topic) do for having some salient points being brushed over.
Anyway I don't wanna harp on about this, we're clearly coming at this from different angles. I personally don't care about the Pro at all so maybe I'm more likely to side with Colin here. You're an Easy Allies fan it looks like so you're in good company. Love and Respect.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Having listened to the newest episode: this thread is incredible right now
Tip: it's not him who is the sensitive one
He is the only one getting emotional and no one was rude until AFTER he said he was taking his ball and leaving.
Dirtyshubb
Member
While there have been a couple of posts that may be considered harsh, there haven't really been any that are downright rude or haven't been tied to the subject at hand and colins supposed role.
99% of the comments have been civil, considerate and we'll written yet instead of focusing on those, Colin decides to focus on the one or two he considers rude and then paints every post in the thread with the same brush and blames us for him taking his ball and going home.
We had a tonne of great posts that were well written but because they didn't follow the time stamp formula Colin wanted he dismissed them and said everyone was rude and left. No wonder people are annoyed when you've got Colin coming in with what ends up looking like false promises of engagement with the sole aim of dismissing valid opinions.
Colin, I've been reading your stuff since I was young, including your mega man guides. Your Fallout guide at IGN proved invaluable. Your long-form history pieces were really inspiring. I was there in the early days of Beyond and remember you coming on the show.
Your post is not a good look. People gave you legitimate criticism and it seems like you are the one meeting it with vitriol. I've seen your overall demeanor shift in recent years, and frankly you've become one of my most trusted voices to one of my least trusted voices. PS ILY has been an exercise in the Colin superiority complex; the show feels like you're talking down to anyone who isn't Colin. Sorry if you don't see that, but clearly a ton of us do.
I have enough podcasts these days that I'm ok with getting my news elsewhere but man it stings. You were one of my favorites, Colin.
I still like you, but FUCK man..gain some perspective and stop acting like a whiny child.
jmaine_ph
Member
It really sucks that it has to be this way. Many people here respect and value your opinion.
Also, many people here have presented some respectful critique and questions to you that would really love to have that conversation with you.
I hope you can find the time to maybe even pick those people out. If not then that's also fine because the the decision is always yours.
Best of luck with everything.
I'm not actually a fan of the PS4 Pro either, but I still cant stand Colin's attitude towards all this and his posts in this thread.
The personal attacks were minuet compared to the fantastic posts we've seen that dissected where we went wrong. But these become invalid now because he can't take an insult or two?
He's come across as a huge crybaby, and it's pretty embarrassing on his behalf.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I think they need to invite someone like Leadbetter to the show.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
That's assuming we'd need 7nm and HBM3.
No reason they couldn't go the HBM2 route and come out with something earlier especially since the main current cockblock is the CPU not the GPU and Zen would be ready for 2018.
Plus you'd be comparing it directly to the original PS4 not the Pro spec at that point as the Pro wouldn't exist.
Then again I'm not a full believer of shit having to be X more powerful to count a new generation. No reason going from 1.8TF to something in thr 7-8TF range wouldn't be a big jump especially when the PS5 moniker would mean games wouldn't be held back.
Plus you'd establish you move freely to the next thing on a 5 year clip. So twice a decade.
Caipirinha
Member
You guys really think that an Ayn Rand aficionado is going to change their mind about.. anything? He's a self-made man ofc, he don't need no stinkin' taxes and he certainly don't need no stinkin' "opinions" from lesser humans.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Same here man. Long time reader/watcher of their stuff and the way Colin has reacted to criticism has really rubbed me the wrong way. I saw plenty brilliant posts nailing the issues people are having with his misinformed opinion. I'm not even a fan of the Pro myself but I understand other people might find it a useful upgrade. Colin I hope you are still reading but refusing to post perhaps? There are so many posts here which you can take on board for next time.
Also one thing I found funny is that the start of the episode you said therr wouldn't be lengthy discussions about the pro because of the last podcast did that, and iirc you said you will just be stating fact so that consumers of the content can get their head around it. Then within 5 minutes you're both waving opinions all over the shop, with a lot of misinformation being thrown about to boot. Just something I noticed
BuggeryBugz
Member
There's absolutely no need to attack him personally, no matter what he has said or believes.
He has an opinion, as do you. He may be misinformed about technical aspects of the pro but it still doesn't change his opinion on what he thinks about the console itself, and you can choose to agree or disagree. I don't see why people feel the need to get angry.
There have been some good posts but there has also been some terrible ones. That's just part of being on a public forum, unfortunately.
I watch a lot of the PSILY shows and I dont even own a PS4. They all do a great job and just because he has a strong opinion on most things, doesn't mean he's a weak link.
Your viewpoint was dismissed due to this asinine statement. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Colin's political views, but bringing that in to personally attack his viewpoints unrelated to political stances is just scummy. Check yourself
The best way to get people to ignore you is to ignore their point of view over your own established narrative.
Caipirinha
Member
Hah oh wow, you're going to dismiss my viewpoint? How will I ever cope.
His personality fits perfectly with that kind of libertarian mentality, it's no coincidence that he sounds like a right wing radio host when he talks about the Pro and even moreso when he responds to criticism.
Jesus christ, just calm down and think about what your saying for a second. Its irrational. Your bringing that shit into a disagreement that was completely unrelated to anything personal in that way, and now you've given him and others the perfect excuse to ignore criticism of literally anybody else like you claimed.
*EDIT*
never mind, done with this thread entirely. Some people have taken things a bit too far.
Ayn Rand did more than cover politics though. Not that I care for the original intent of the post you replied to.