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[Marty Chinn]

ATSC 3 is a game changer allowing 4 times as many local Antenna TV channels. The assumption is that most TV channels will still be delivered as lower resolution 720P to 1080P rather than 4K. Sony already has a Network called Get TV in the US. I think Playstation Vue will eventually be a service for those few channels in addition to Antenna TV service.

In 2-4 years but starting with Vidipath Cable TV, I GUESS late this year, you have a Gateway box from cable and eventually for Antenna TV. The Gateway box is also a DVR that contains the tuners and serves IPTV to the home network as a DLNA server. Nasne sold only in Japan is a precursor to this and when it was released in 2012 one reviewer stated it showed the Sony future plans for Media in the home.

In 2-4 years Cable TV is transitioning to all IPTV from Cable modems and at that point we eliminate the Cable TV DVR in the home. DVR would be in the cloud or customer owned. TV delivery models are then:

1) ALL Cable TV served via a cable modem
2) Hybrid Antenna TV with Gateway DVR box and selected Cable TV or services like Playstation Vue
3) ALL Antenna TV

Option 2 should be very popular and all options have Internet served from a Cable Modem. Key here is that you need a Smart TV or STB (read XB1, PS4, PC or UHD Blu-ray player) with older 1080P TVs.

It doesn't matter what ATSC3 is capable of, there's still bandwidth limitations. There's a finite of bandwidth that the FCC is going to divide up among the various players. Even with 4 times the channel capacity, the amount of bandwidth needed to offer PlayStation Vue is just simply too much for Sony to hog all that spectrum. On top of that, Sony doesn't have the infrastructure to broadcast OTA. Sony offering PlayStation Vue OTA via ATSC3 is just simply not feasible and is not going to happen.

How expensive is the absolute cheapest UHD Blu Ray player you can find on the market today?

Sony announced at CES that it will release a UHD Blu Ray player which is obvious because their movies division is already putting out movies in the format. I expect this thing to come out at 300$ US. Do you think they will cannibalize their own product by releasing a console that is only 100 or 200$ more expensive than their stand-alone player?

Sony did the exact scenario you're describing with Blu ray and the PS3.

 

[00ich]

Sony announced at CES that it will release a UHD Blu Ray player which is obvious because their movies division is already putting out movies in the format. I expect this thing to come out at 300$ US. Do you think they will cannibalize their own product by releasing a console that is only 100 or 200$ more expensive than their stand-alone player?

They did in the past with the PS2 and DVDs, they did with the PS3 and Blu Rays and they will even more happily today, because they have now many ways to generate additional money on a sold PS vs a sold UHD Blu Ray Player.

 

[sono]

You don't need to upgrade an entire PC at one time, and phones are subsidised. Not sure how many more time this needs repeating, but hey.

Keep saying it bro

 

[00ich]

You don't need to upgrade an entire PC at one time, and phones are subsidised. Not sure how many more time this needs repeating, but hey.

On the upside: the standard PS4 is not outdated with the release of the PS4k and you will find a buyer for a good price for your old model.

 

[Caayn]

On the upside: the standard PS4 is not outdated with the release of the PS4k and you will find a buyer for a good price for your old model.

A new (improved) model, the current model likely getting a lower MSRP and a flood of used PS4's will significantly affect the price for which you'll be able to sell it.

 

[benedictm]

New GPU, new CPU, new RAM configuration, UHD Bluray drive and 100BD GB disks?

That sounds like a huge investment they would only do for a PS5 potentially.

So what happens to the 50GB standard bluray disks used now? They get replaced? But then the PS4 can't read 100GB UHD discs...so would they technically have two sections for games both bluray and UHD blu ray

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Also, if we were back on a 5 year console cycle the PS5 would be unveiled to the public around 2 years from now. Maybe the rumours have ben about the PS5 without realising it...

 

[geordiemp]

New GPU, new CPU, new RAM configuration, UHD Bluray drive and 100BD GB disks?

That sounds like a huge investment they would only do for a PS5 potentially.

So what happens to the 50GB standard bluray disks used now? They get replaced? But then the PS4 can't read 100GB UHD discs...so would they technically have two sections for games both bluray and UHD blu ray

I have no idea, but is blu ray 2 layer and UHD 3 layer ? Are the first 2 layers the same ?

If so, then the standard game could be on first 2 layers, and extra textures and stuff on 3rd layer...all on same disk....?

 

[Planet]

It doesn't work that way, the PS4 laser can't focus the inner layers, the disc would be just unreadable. Also the new standard features denser layers of 33GB, while the old one was 25GB per layer.

 

[omonimo]

I wonder if Sony also heard NX might be more powerful than the old PS4 and thus it was extra incentive to build this thing.

It's incredible how many overestimate the Nintendo influence in the vg industry. I'm not want to sound rude but hardly Sony or even MS find the new Nintendo platform a menace.

 

[jeff_rigby]

It doesn't matter what ATSC3 is capable of, there's still bandwidth limitations. There's a finite of bandwidth that the FCC is going to divide up among the various players. Even with 4 times the channel capacity, the amount of bandwidth needed to offer PlayStation Vue is just simply too much for Sony to hog all that spectrum. On top of that, Sony doesn't have the infrastructure to broadcast OTA. Sony offering PlayStation Vue OTA via ATSC3 is just simply not feasible and is not going to happen.

I was saying that OTA would provide 100 or so channels (with 10 or so TV stations) and the Internet via a cable modem would provide the others. Many of the popular Cable TV channels will move to Antenna TV and the others can be provided by Playstation Vue or by Cable TV; the difference is that they will all be IPTV from the cable modem.

Yes the FCC is going to sell more TV spectrum but they can't do it till they implement ATSC 3. The current OTA system is limited due to skip and station overlap; they can't use the available spectrum efficiently. This changes with ATSC 3; lower power with multiple towers in a broadcast area and syncing the signal allow full use without needing to worry about overlap and signal skip.

More directly related to the threads topic: If the PS4.5 is designed to better support VR goggles then it should have a 4G radio for wireless Goggles. The 4G radio can also be used for IoT and Sony just purchased a company that has IoT 4G designs and patents for 4G radios. The 4G modulation scheme is the same that Cell phones and ATSC 3 uses. The FCC is selling TV spectrum to Cell Phone companies so they use nearly the same frequencies. This means that it should be very easy for a Cell phone to support ATSC 3.

Hook an antenna to the 4G radio in the PS4.5 and it's a 4K TV gateway box and DVR. onQ123 mentioned 4K TVs selling as monitors without Tuners and this is also what I heard. The FCC in an attempt to speed up the adoption of ATSC 3 will push to have STBs or cheap dongles support it. NO 4K TV to this point and probably for the next year will sell with ATSC 3 support.

 

[Adam Tyner]

How expensive is the absolute cheapest UHD Blu Ray player you can find on the market today?

$399, although bear in mind that there are only two UHD BD players on the market: one Samsung, and one Panasonic, and there hasn't been an announcement for a U.S. release of the Panny.

 

[jeff_rigby]

It doesn't work that way, the PS4 laser can't focus the inner layers, the disc would be just unreadable. Also the new standard features denser layers of 33GB, while the old one was 25GB per layer.

It doesn't work that way. All blu-ray drives can read 3 or more layers and in 2010 with special disks up to 8 layers. All drives can't reliably read the 2010 Panasonic-Sony tweak that changes the mark length and requires changing the reliability routines in the drive firmware. Modern blu-ray drives can be firmware updated to reliability read the 33 GB format which is called a Version 2 disk. Version 2 disks can be one, two or three layers. The ability to read this version 2 format disk is part of the BDA specs for UHD disks. UHD disks can be version 1.4 or 2 but you can 't mix them.

This is in the differences section between the Fuji book 8 and 9.

The BDA whitepaper page 32 lists the difference between V1.4 and V2 disk formats and it's the mark length which then requires a change in how reliability is determined. This is the 2010 Panasonic-Sony tweak that Sony said was firmware update-able. Blu-ray drives in 2010 could read 4 layers but maybe not reliably with the Panasonic-Sony Tweak; the BD-R 2010 whitepaper addressed this issue.

 

[kyser73]

I wonder if Sony also heard NX might be more powerful than the old PS4 and thus it was extra incentive to build this thing.

For the nth time, an interview with the CFO last year contained a quote about the potential for upgrading the PS4. The leaks may be a form of market testing, they may be completely off the ball, but you don't make reactionary moves like this in CE hardware - there's too much planning required to turn on a dime in reaction to consumer leaks from competitors.

 

[Planet]

Well, we will see if the 4K firmware you keep on promising will really arrive eventually. I have yet to see any consumer device being updated to support more layers.

 

[kromeo]

Does anything actually output in HDR at the moment? I have a TV that supports it but both games and TV/streaming look exactly the same as far as I can tell

 

[jeff_rigby]

Well, we will see if the 4K firmware you keep on promising will really arrive eventually. I have yet to see any consumer device being updated to support more layers.

It's expensive to make a three layer ROM disk so only expensive UHD movies will use them. The equipment to make three layer disks was shipping late 2013. The same equipment that makes 3 layer disks can make either version 1.4 or version 2 disks as the difference is just the mark length.

BD+ released in 2007 and the PS3 firmware updated to support it. UHD disks are required to have BD-ROM marks (BD+) made around the spindle that contain an encryption Key. The equipment that makes the BD-ROM disks can make that mark while only one expensive drive can do the same with a record-able disk. These marks around the spindle || ||| | |||| || | || |||| || ||| |

RE: UHD disks being used for game consoles

5. Licensee shall ensure that each Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Console manufactured by Licensee does not play back any Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Media unless such media is protected either by its own proprietary content protection system or Ultra HD BD-ROM Mark. New Production Format Models of Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Consoles are subject to verification of compliance with the applicable part of Test Specification pursuant to Schedule B. The portions of New Production Format Models of Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Consoles that are responsible for detection and response to the absence of ROM Mark will be required to comply with the compliance and robustness requirements of Schedule H.

Licensee shall ensure that AACS Online and Online Certificate Verification is implemented in each Ultra HD BD-ROM Movie Player, Ultra HD BD-ROM Game Console and Ultra HD BD-ROM PC Application Software which complies with “BD-ROM Profile 6” as specified in the “System Description, Blu-ray Disc Read Only Format Part 3: Audio Visual Basic Specifications: version 3.XX.

BD-ROM4 Movie Player/BD-ROM Game Console/BD-ROM Test Player

Dongguan Digital AV Technology Corp., Ltd.China
Funai Electric Co., Ltd.Japan
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation Japan
PanasonicJapan
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. Korea
Sony Corporation Japan

BD-ROM4 PC Application Software

CyberLink Corporation Taiwan
sMedio, Inc. Japan
Sony Corporation Japan

 

[Adam Tyner]

Does anything actually output in HDR at the moment? I have a TV that supports it but both games and TV/streaming look exactly the same as far as I can tell

Marco Polo on Netflix, some Amazon Video content, and most/all of the Ultra HD Blu-ray releases so far.

The equipment that makes the BD-ROM disks can make that mark while only one expensive drive can do the same with a record-able disk. These marks around the spindle || ||| | |||| || | || |||| || ||| |

I'm not sure what's more intriguing: the bizarre tangent you're on or that someone so white-paper-or-die doesn't know the difference between "disc" and "disk".

 

[jeff_rigby]

Marco Polo on Netflix and most/all of the Ultra HD Blu-ray releases so far.

I'm not sure what's more intriguing: the bizarre tangent you're on or that someone so white-paper-or-die doesn't know the difference between "disc" and "disk".

Disk and Disc are both proper and used interchangeably in the same paragraph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc_drive
Wikipedia
Pictured are lenses from a Blu-ray writer in a Sony Vaio E series laptop. In computing, an optical disc drive (ODD) is a disk drive that uses laser light or electromagnetic waves within or near the visible light spectrum as part of the process of reading or writing data to or from optical discs.

grammarist.com/spelling/disc-disk/
There is no consensus on the difference between disc and disk, and in many contexts the two are used interchangeably.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Disk and Disc are both proper and used interchangeably in the same paragraph.

I have never seen anyone with the slightest bit of technical acumen refer to optical media as a "disk". Do a Google search for the phrase "Blu-ray disk" and see how many credible results you get.

 

[lyrick]

I have never seen anyone with the slightest bit of technical acumen refer to optical media as a "disk". Do a Google search for the phrase "Blu-ray disk" and see how many credible results you get.

It irritates the fuck out of me too.

Disc => Optical
Disk => Magnetic

 

[onQ123]

Does anything actually output in HDR at the moment? I have a TV that supports it but both games and TV/streaming look exactly the same as far as I can tell

Netflix reportedly rolls out support for HDR streaming (updated)

Earlier this year, Netflix said its near-future plans focused on HDR streaming and creating more original content. And now, according to multiple reports, Netflix has quietly rolled out support for high-dynamic range video. Although it hasn't made an official announcement, an executive at the company confirmed the feature earlier today. "We are indeed live with HDR. It works with compatible TVs, both in HDR10 and Dolby Vision," Yann Lafargue, Netflix's manager of corporate communications said to FlatpanelsHD.

Meanwhile, a different spokesperson for the streaming service told Inside CI that HDR programming will be delivered to compatible televisions anywhere Netflix is available. Right now, Marco Polo is the only show streaming in HDR, but Netflix did tell Engadget recently that Daredevil would take advantage of the technology as well. Either way, we're trying to confirm the news on our end and we'll update this story as soon as we hear back from Netflix.



Update: A Netflix representative said this to Engadget:

As of mid-March, we have been providing both Dolby Vision and HDR10 streams to supported TVs, giving Netflix members an even more visually stunning experience. Marco Polo season 1 is available now, with more titles -- including Marvel's Daredevil -- coming soon

Netflix HDR content now live, so long as your TV can support it

Here’s something you might have missed from last month. Netflix quietly started streaming high-dynamic range content to its customers. It’s not a crazy huge deal just yet, since most of us probably don’t own the newer TVs that actually support HDR, but it’s a nicety that folks who do have those TVs will appreciate.

If you have an HDR TV, expect more colors and a wider range between the darkest of blacks and the brightest of whites. It’s the same idea taken from your smartphone camera, which also uses HDR, and allows you to see parts of the picture that might otherwise be too blown out in bright areas or dark in really dark areas. The gist is you see more of the picture that Hollywood wants you to see.

“As of mid-March, we have been providing both Dolby Vision and HDR10 streams to supported TVs, giving Netflix members an even more visually stunning experience,” Netflix told Engadget earlier this week. “Marco Polo season 1 is available now, with more titles — including Marvel’s Daredevil — coming soon.” So, really, you get a single season of HDR content to stream right now, but Netflix has to start somewhere, right? At least you can finally put that HDR-supported TV to use, too.

A lot of the new Samsung, LG and Sony TVs that were announced at CES have HDR10 support, and you might find it in slightly older and high-end ones, too. But don’t expect to take advantage of high-dynamic range content if you have an older set. Oh, and don’t have Netflix? Don’t worry, Amazon Prime Video also offers HDR content, including for hit shows like The Man in the High Castle.

 

[Horohoro]

Does anything actually output in HDR at the moment? I have a TV that supports it but both games and TV/streaming look exactly the same as far as I can tell

UHD blurays but only a handful of tvs have HDR capability atm.

 

[Plinko]

Actually 4k uptake is outpacing 1080p. The HD transition was a mess.

I can't find numbers that support this anywhere, at least any that compare both upgrades at this current time in their existence. All I see is sales predictions, and even then they aren't great. They expect only 10% of American households to own a 4KTV by the end of 2018--nearly three years down the road.

Every "4KTV sales are booming!" article I see merely is comparing the numbers to the paltry numbers early on. Of course they're "booming" in that situation.

Once every TV is 4K standard, that's when this will take off.

 

[c0de]

I have never seen anyone with the slightest bit of technical acumen refer to optical media as a "disk". Do a Google search for the phrase "Blu-ray disk" and see how many credible results you get.

Perhaps it gets over his head.

 

[RoboPlato]

It irritates the fuck out of me too.

Disc => Optical
Disk => Magnetic

I always alternated between the two. Never knew what the difference was. Neat!

 

[Marty Chinn]

I was saying that OTA would provide 100 or so channels (with 10 or so TV stations) and the Internet via a cable modem would provide the others. Many of the popular Cable TV channels will move to Antenna TV and the others can be provided by Playstation Vue or by Cable TV; the difference is that they will all be IPTV from the cable modem.

Yes the FCC is going to sell more TV spectrum but they can't do it till they implement ATSC 3. The current OTA system is limited due to skip and station overlap; they can't use the available spectrum efficiently. This changes with ATSC 3; lower power with multiple towers in a broadcast area and syncing the signal allow full use without needing to worry about overlap and signal skip.

More directly related to the threads topic: If the PS4.5 is designed to better support VR goggles then it should have a 4G radio for wireless Goggles. The 4G radio can also be used for IoT and Sony just purchased a company that has IoT 4G designs and patents for 4G radios. The 4G modulation scheme is the same that Cell phones and ATSC 3 uses. The FCC is selling TV spectrum to Cell Phone companies so they use nearly the same frequencies. This means that it should be very easy for a Cell phone to support ATSC 3.

Hook an antenna to the 4G radio in the PS4.5 and it's a 4K TV gateway box and DVR. onQ123 mentioned 4K TVs selling as monitors without Tuners and this is also what I heard. The FCC in an attempt to speed up the adoption of ATSC 3 will push to have STBs or cheap dongles support it. NO 4K TV to this point and probably for the next year will sell with ATSC 3 support.

You are on some weird long winded tangent that simply says the same thing which is PlayStation Vue through OTA is not feasible and not going to happen.

 

[Raistlin]

How expensive is the absolute cheapest UHD Blu Ray player you can find on the market today?

Sony announced at CES that it will release a UHD Blu Ray player which is obvious because their movies division is already putting out movies in the format. I expect this thing to come out at 300$ US. Do you think they will cannibalize their own product by releasing a console that is only 100 or 200$ more expensive than their stand-alone player?

I've addressed this in previous posts - it's all about timing. I suspect they are intentionally delaying the capability a bit in order to give their BDA CE partners time to sell to early adopters and the high-end market.


In more general terms though, this is the same situation they saw themselves in with the original BD specification and PS3. What they are facing is no different.

 

[Raistlin]

UHD blurays but only a handful of tvs have HDR capability atm.

VUDU, Netflix, and Amazon have HDR content, as does Sony's UHD digital download service.

There are other online content providers readying it.

I can't find numbers that support this anywhere, at least any that compare both upgrades at this current time in their existence. All I see is sales predictions, and even then they aren't great. They expect only 10% of American households to own a 4KTV by the end of 2018--nearly three years down the road.

Every "4KTV sales are booming!" article I see merely is comparing the numbers to the paltry numbers early on. Of course they're "booming" in that situation.

Once every TV is 4K standard, that's when this will take off.

I can attempt to find numbers.

I will say that I listen to several A/V and home theater podcasts, read numerous related sites, and have a sub to a A/V magazine. They have all stated as much and I've had no reason to question it. So unless this is all some sort of widespread conspiracy every one is in on, I'm pretty confident it's true.



To be fair, none of the above implies sales are breaking records or anything. All it is saying is the uptake is faster from launch-to-now relative to 1080p adoption. And that isn't a particularly high bar.

 

[rardk64]

As someone considering buying a PS4 now, I...probably still will. I don't care much about the 4K upgrade, not enough to be buying this around the time that NX might be coming out. I'd rather buy a PS4 now (I've been on the fence for awhile) and enjoy the games I already want on it.

Might I regret it later? It could happen. Particularly if these "sacrifices" are for real. That'll be a huge bummer, and a big punch in the gut for anyone who's bought a PS4 already, but I think I'll be just fine.

 

[onQ123]

You know what's strange?


Wii U came out in 2012 & PS4 came out in 2013 so if NX come out this year & PS4K come out next year how is the PS4 situation so bad but no one is upset about a new Nintendo console?

At least with the PS4/PS4K situation no one is getting left behind. You're still getting the same games.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You know what's strange?


Wii U came out in 2012 & PS4 came out in 2013 so if NX come out this year & PS4K come out next year how is the PS4 situation so bad but no one is upset about a new Nintendo console?

At least with the PS4/PS4K situation no one is getting left behind. You're still getting the same games.

#Reasons

Spoiler

Agreed with you.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You know what's strange?


Wii U came out in 2012 & PS4 came out in 2013 so if NX come out this year & PS4K come out next year how is the PS4 situation so bad but no one is upset about a new Nintendo console?

At least with the PS4/PS4K situation no one is getting left behind. You're still getting the same games.

The Wii U though is a complete bust. It's a failed platform so there's no sense in beating a dead horse and dragging it out. It's better for Nintendo to cut it off short and move on. Everyone understands that. It's not strange at all.

As someone considering buying a PS4 now, I...probably still will. I don't care much about the 4K upgrade, not enough to be buying this around the time that NX might be coming out. I'd rather buy a PS4 now (I've been on the fence for awhile) and enjoy the games I already want on it.

Might I regret it later? It could happen. Particularly if these "sacrifices" are for real. That'll be a huge bummer, and a big punch in the gut for anyone who's bought a PS4 already, but I think I'll be just fine.

At this point even if you don't care about the 4K, if they are not replacing the PS4 with the PS4K, you may as well wait for it to launch so you get a price drop on the PS4.

 

[onQ123]

The Wii U though is a complete bust. It's a failed platform so there's no sense in beating a dead horse and dragging it out. It's better for Nintendo to cut it off short and move on. Everyone understands that. It's not strange at all.

But why should that control what Sony can do? AMD die shrink is happening now & along with it comes benefits so why should Sony wait for the next die shrink to support 4K when they can take advantage of it now & stay ahead?

 

[Marty Chinn]

But why should that control what Sony can do? AMD die shrink is happening now & along with it comes benefits so why should Sony wait for the next die shrink to support 4K when they can take advantage of it now & stay ahead?

You were confused why nobody is upset at Nintendo but people are upset at Sony. I explained why. It's not strange.

 

[Ryoku]

You know what's strange?


Wii U came out in 2012 & PS4 came out in 2013 so if NX come out this year & PS4K come out next year how is the PS4 situation so bad but no one is upset about a new Nintendo console?

At least with the PS4/PS4K situation no one is getting left behind. You're still getting the same games.

This comparison is missing a very important point.
"PS4K" wouldn't be a new console. It'd be an upgraded iteration of the PS4, and many are worried that games' performance may suffer on the original. This also has not been done before in the console space.

NX, on the other hand, is a brand new console.

It isn't strange at all once you recognize this point.

 

[geordiemp]

This comparison is missing a very important point.
"PS4K" wouldn't be a new console. It'd be an upgraded iteration of the PS4, and many are worried that games' performance may suffer on the original. This also has not been done before in the console space.

NX, on the other hand, is a brand new console.

It isn't strange at all once you recognize this point.

Nah, allot of messages I read is damn it sony, will buy an Nx instead - both will be 4 years if PS 4.5 is 2017, which to me is just funny.

Also all consoles will be iterative from now on, they have all effectively said so, so there is no argument. Its just shooting bullets and console warz.

 

[msdstc]

Nah, allot of messages I read is damn it sony, will buy an Nx instead - both will be 4 years if PS 4.5 is 2017, which to me is just funny.

Also all consoles will be iterative from now on, they have all effectively said so, so there is no argument. Its just shooting bullets and console warz.

Its not about console wars, I think it's that people don't realize that this model was inevitable, they're just upset its happening now.

 

[onQ123]

You were confused why nobody is upset at Nintendo but people are upset at Sony. I explained why. It's not strange.

You didn't explain anything you gave your opinion.

This comparison is missing a very important point.
"PS4K" wouldn't be a new console. It'd be an upgraded iteration of the PS4, and many are worried that games' performance may suffer on the original. This also has not been done before in the console space.

NX, on the other hand, is a brand new console.

It isn't strange at all once you recognize this point.

The Wii was an upgrade to the Gamecube & Wii U was an upgrade to the Wii so who is to say that the NX won't be a upgrade to the Wii U?

Again at least no one is getting left behind because with a PS4.5 the PS4 is still getting the same games & it's able to play the games in the same way only the resolution & maybe some visual /performance difference in some games but it would be worse if they was making a full jump to the next system & leaving the PS4 behind.

 

[Caayn]

But why should that control what Sony can do? AMD die shrink is happening now & along with it comes benefits so why should Sony wait for the next die shrink to support 4K when they can take advantage of it now & stay ahead?

Die shrinks happen all the time during generations. It's the reason why the Xbox 360 and PS3 both started out so large and had smaller versions down their lifetime. Thanks to the die shrink.

Die shrinks aren't exclusive to this generation.

The Wii was an upgrade to the Gamecube & Wii U was an upgrade to the Wii so who is to say that the NX won't be a upgrade to the Wii U?

A console that has native backwards compatibility with its direct predecessor is an upgrade now?

 

[DeepEnigma]

A console that has native backwards compatibility with its direct predecessor is an upgrade now?

It was the IDENTICAL chipset, only a bump in power (clocking). So yes, if we are going to break things down on a technical level, it is the same shit, just not marketed as such.

Why do you think the running joke went around about 1.5 to 2 Gamecubes taped together.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You didn't explain anything you gave your opinion.

I did explain. It's a dead and failed platform. Nobody expects Nintendo to drag along a dead and failed platform that barely just broke 10 million units in 3 years of existing. Both Microsoft and Sony surpassed Nintendo long ago in a much shorter time. Nobody is buying the system. It's dead. That's not an opinion. Everyone knows it's dead and with such a small install base, it doesn't affect very many people and even those people know it's dead. It's not the same as telling 40 million people with a leading platform that you're changing things up mid generation.

The Wii was an upgrade to the Gamecube & Wii U was an upgrade to the Wii so who is to say that the NX won't be a upgrade to the Wii U?

That is some weird viewpoint to downplay them as an upgrade when they are full generation platform shifts.

 

[onQ123]

Its not about console wars, I think it's that people don't realize that this model was inevitable, they're just upset its happening now.

It's already happened with the Gamecube to Wii upgrade. the Wii was a Gamecube with higher clocked parts & a new controller. then the Wii U was the Wii with a multi-core CPU clocked higher with a better GPU & new controller.

 

[mejin]

lol Nintendo won't do the same as Sony cause they can't, they messed up real good with Wii U. Microsoft will also probably release a new console killing XB1 in the process.

Basically, they will restart from zero but Sony is already there. That's the only difference right now. Anyway, internet is usually crazy about the stupid things and PS4K is an example.

It's almost like saying you can't evolve if you're doing better than others. You have to remain still until your competitors are as good as you.

 

[DeepEnigma]

lol Nintendo won't do the same as Sony cause they can't, they messed up real good with Wii U. Microsoft will also probably release a new console killing XB1 in the process.

Basically, they will restart from zero but Sony is already there. That's the only difference right now. Anyway, internet is usually crazy about the stupid things and PS4K is an example.

It's almost like saying you can't evolve if you're doing better than others. You have to remain still until your competitors are as good as you.

Yeah, this is the glaring issue I am seeing repeated in so many words. If you are in last place or not a good place compared to the competition, only then can you come out with a better product in place of what you did a few years ago. DaFuq?

 

[ReBurn]

Die shrinks happen all the time during generations. It's the reason why the Xbox 360 and PS3 both started out so large and had smaller versions down their lifetime. Thanks to the die shrink.

Die shrinks aren't exclusive to this generation.
A console that has native backwards compatibility with its direct predecessor is an upgrade now?

The hardware of those consoles is the same architecture, just more powerful each generation. Looking at it from the perspective of backward compatibility seems obtuse.

 

[onQ123]

Die shrinks happen all the time during generations. It's the reason why the Xbox 360 and PS3 both started out so large and had smaller versions down their lifetime. Thanks to the die shrink.

Die shrinks aren't exclusive to this generation.
A console that has native backwards compatibility with its direct predecessor is an upgrade now?

You just be talking to be talking SMH.

The Wii was an update to the Gamecube with a new control interface & so was the Wii U.

 

[Ryoku]

You didn't explain anything you gave your opinion.



The Wii was an upgrade to the Gamecube & Wii U was an upgrade to the Wii so who is to say that the NX won't be a upgrade to the Wii U?

Again at least no one is getting left behind because with a PS4.5 the PS4 is still getting the same games & it's able to play the games in the same way only the resolution & maybe some visual /performance difference in some games but it would be worse if they was making a full jump to the next system & leaving the PS4 behind.

You mentioned it, but it is why so many (at least here on GAF) seem to be worried.

As for the Gamecube > Wii comment, sure, it was literally a simple "upgrade" from a technological perspective, but it was a new console. The thing that is different this time is that if PS4K happens, then 'what if' it's marketed as a more powerful PS4--rather than a new console--which gets back to the previous point about why people are on the fence about it.

Obviously, I highly doubt anyone will get left behind in terms of available games. Again, that is not the argument.

 

[Caayn]

The hardware of those consoles is the same architecture, just more powerful each generation. Looking at it from the perspective of backward compatibility seems obtuse.

So does looking at it from a hardware perspective, doesn't it?

The Wii and WiiU both were marketed and placed as full replacements of their respective predecessor. (Although Nintendo could've done a better job with naming the WiiU.)

You just be talking to be talking SMH.

The Wii was an update to the Gamecube with a new control interface & so was the Wii U.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[onQ123]

So does looking at it from a hardware perspective, doesn't it?

The Wii and WiiU both were marketed and placed as full replacements of their respective predecessor. (Although Nintendo could've done a better job with naming the WiiU.)
Pot meet kettle.

I'm more of a pressure cooker

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm more of a pressure cooker

Now I want to make some crock pot chili or cuban black beans! Thanks for making me hungry, and now I have to soak some beans when I get home, lol.