bitbydeath
Gold Member
All 4K TVs are HDR compatible though right?
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
All 4K TVs are HDR compatible though right?
Nope. As far as I know, officially, UHD includes the HDR standard. 4K itself does not.
most of 2016s and about half of 2015 4k TVs are HDR compatible.
Nevertheless, 4k TVs are selling great, I posted graph on previous page....
Marty Chinn
Member
No, and even those with HDR doesn't mean they have the same implementation of HDR so there may still be incompatibility even if you have the check box marked with this feature. The standards didn't get set until the end of last year. If you go to Amazon you'll see they list which TVs are compatible with their HDR content. This is one of the primary reasons I wasn't jumping on 4K because the standards were still in flux and you could be buying a dead end incompatible set.
Caayn
Member
No.
You have basically three category's of 4K tvs:
1. UHD:
- Capable of displaying a resolution of 3840*2160.
- All of the above category
- HDR compatibility
- 10 bit colour depth.
- Compatible with the BT.2020 colour space
- Requires HDMI 2.0a
- All of the above category
- Capable of producing a peak brightness of 1000nits and a black level of 0.05nits or peak brightness of 540nits and a black level of 0.0005
- Capable of reproducing at least 90% of dci-p3 colour spectrum
Marty Chinn
Member
You can keep posting that chart but it doesn't make it true without context of the bigger picture. Look I can post graphics too:
According to your method of analysis of charts, 3D TVs are huge hits! Everyone wants 3D content!
hmmm seems a little...
Where are the LG OLEDs and new Vizios? Middle tier correct?
4k is obviously the future. 1080p could only be the standard for so long. 4k is not a gimick. 8k will come and people will love that too. Right now there just isn't 4k content to justify the tv purchase. Consoles that support 4k would push tech forward, which is a good thing.
ninjablade
Banned
i think its time for a reality check, 99% of customers don't know or care how much wiiu or ps4 have sold, all they know is they spent a good amount of money on a console and want games to keep coming out, and in the sense the few that are buying wiiu, for 300$ are getting burnt. now if you tell the average ps4 buyer that a ps4 with more power is coming they might tell you, that sucks, or what ever i just bought my ps4, and then forget about it within minutes, unless they were real enthusiast and wanted the better hardware.
Marty Chinn
Member
Probably middle tier. It really depends on the model. I'm not sure if any TVs so far have been certified for the Premium standard. I believe you won't see those until the Fall of this year. Buying a 4K TV now is really premature until these become the norm. You really don't want a TV unless it meets the Premium standard.
I'm not quite convinced of this yet. Part of me feels it won't really catch on content wise and we won't really see a major shift until 8K and that will be the future.
Well I assume he meant the discussion here where everyone does know roughly how much they sold. That's why people on this forum aren't having a huge outrage over the NX being released so soon.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Thanks above, I haven't bought a 4K TV yet but good to know for when I do buy one.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly. The average PS4 user will not care, and will continue to buy the PS4 games coming out, just as they did with the PS3 when ports were usually better on the 360, and the PS2, when there were not one, but two more capable machines power wise out there.
Those who buy a $250-300 WiiU now, will be burned, because Nintendo will not support that box and drop it in favor of the NX, and so, "oh so sorry, please forgive us, have you seen the new NX though?".
ss_lemonade
Member
Since we seem to be talking about TVs here as well, I have a question: What's the relationship between an HDR capable TV and a TV than has a 10bit panel? I have a sony w900a and that one seems to be able to support 10bit sources (I believe there's a setting for it) and can even detect 12bit if you for example set your PS4 to output deep color. I'm guessing it can't do HDR, but is there supposed to be a purpose behind the different color modes? Because I can't tell the difference.
Marty Chinn
Member
What? Can you not read within context? I'm talking about buying a 4K TV. If you're going to buy one, you want one that meets the standards that were established at the end of last year. You don't want to buy one now and get burned if it doesn't meet the standards set. What does this have to do with 1080p TVs?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You can keep posting that chart but it doesn't make it true without context of the bigger picture. Look I can post graphics too:
According to your method of analysis of charts, 3D TVs are huge hits! Everyone wants 3D content!
I'm not saying the general public is rushing out to buy new TVs.
That being said other than LG trying to sell 1080p OLED cause 4K OLED is still mad expensive everything else that is "big screen" is 4K now if you go to the store. In terms of LCD you have to go out of your way to buy a new 1080p set that is larger than say 4X". It's really only the smaller sets that are still 1080p.
That's not to say adoptiy rates are fast, but if/when people want/need a new big screen TV 4K is basically the default option for modern big screen sizes.
The bigger tell will be when people who bought 1080p sets around the start of last gen want to upgrade or else are forced to due to their TVs having issues. We are at roughly the decade mark for those sets.
Marty Chinn
Member
Well I agree with you and it's what I've been trying to point out to that other poster. 4K TV sales are only increasing because they are increasingly becoming the only option. It's not that people are going out to buy a 4K TV because it's 4K; they're just simply buying a TV and it happens to be 4K because that's the option presented to them. The same goes with 3D TVs which is what I was showing in that chart. The context of the sale is key and without factoring that in, you can make any chart sound great by leaving out the context.
ninjablade
Banned
some nintendo fans are mad, but the majority are really hardcore here and accept what nintendo gives them with open arms, just imagine if sony gave us something like the wii or wiiu, both when released had power on par with lastgen consoles, sony fans here would riot and change over to pc or Microsoft, sony fans here really like there graphics and don't like the idea of better ps4 hardware unless they plan to have it, but in the end of day neogaf doesn't dictate the market at all.
It means you can still enjoy a 4K TV without it meeting the new standards just like people have been enjoying TV for years without these new standards.
Adam Tyner
Member
All of LG's 2016 OLED displays carry the Premium badge, and the G6 and E6 are out (though not widely available) now. There is nothing middle tier about the G6, which looks to be the single highest quality display on the market at the moment. The downside as far as HDR goes is that the brights aren't as bright, but the perfect blacks compensate for that to a certain extent.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
The difference being I actively heard people shit all over 3d. You never hear people shit all over 4K. They just say they might not need it or want it right now. 3d was something the general buying public actively hated.
Marty Chinn
Member
This is some weird angle you're trying to take a stance on. It's like saying sure people could enjoy their HDTVs before HDCP was standard. Sure people could enjoy their HDTVs before they had HDMI. Sure people could enjoy their 480/1080i HDTVs before 720P was commonly used. Sure people could enjoy their 480/1080i HDTVs before 1080p was even a new resolution. Anyone could enjoy all that, but knowing things were in flux, if someone said all this was going to be settled in a few months with an HDMI HDCP 1080P set, you would wisely tell a person you want to wait for one of these sets instead of buying a TV now that doesn't conform to the standards moving forward, especially when content will utilize those standards. So sure you can buy a 4K TV now, but it's an unwise move when all sets moving forward will conform to this standard and they're right around a corner. So I'm not sure what point or battle you're trying to win here when the advice to wait or at least find a TV that meets the standard is the best purchasing advice at this point.
I wasn't calling the LG's TVs middle tier. I was just using the term referencing the list of different 4K feature sets. The other person used the term middle tier so I did it to avoid confusion on his part.
That isn't true.
For one, what do you mean by HDR? There are two competing specs. Worse still, HDR-10 is essentially unfinished. They basically all work differently, and its unclear if existing TV's are all upgradable once the spec is truly finalized.
More importantly, you must only be looking at the big brands, and even with them ... only their top models and maybe second tier models. You move outside of that and the numbers don't add up.
The new LG line and I believe some of the Samsung's are 'Premium UHD' as far as the UHD Alliance certification goes.
That's the problem though, not everyone is deciding to use that licensing scheme. For example, the new top Sony's meet the requirements IIRC ... but they aren't bothering to get the badge.
As far as the new Vizio's, that's an interesting case. They are currently in the process of arguing with the UHD Alliance to get the requirements changed for 'Premium' designation. Caayn listed the following as one of its criteria:
Capable of producing a peak brightness of 1000nits and a black level of 0.05nits or peak brightness of 540nits and a black level of 0.0005
... and that's not exactly true. The peak brightness is not for the whole screen. It's based on measuring a portion of the screen, and the portion is actually different for LCD and OLED. OLED needs to do it with a smaller percentage ... LCD is given a bit of a waiver and can use a larger size to compensate for how their back lights work. I'd have to check what the approximate screen size percentages are (note: that OLED uses a smaller percentage is actually better in terms of image quality).
The thing with the new Vizio's is that actually do hit 1000nits when talking about a full screen. However they cannot hit it at the smaller percentage as required by the spec. That's what they're trying to argue with the UHD Alliance. They want it to be exactly like Caayn's quote.
I personally hope Vizio does not get the okay. Full screen brightness is not the point of HDR. Being able to do really bright specular highlights on a smaller portion of the screen is the intent and more important for actual image quality. THX certification used to mean something, but then they watered it down with tons of different tiers and exemptions. I'd hate to see the UHD Premium certification (which is a great boon to the industry and consumers) start to get watered down ... especially so early in its usage.
tokyocrusher
Banned
Will buy if it is backwards compatible with ps3 games digital and physical
I'd argue more than a certain extent. They have a much wider dynamic range in total, and the way the human eye works ... it's all about the difference between your min and peak.
The only issues is if you are in a room with a lot of ambient light. But even then, the nits you get from a UHD Premium OLED for speculars are still well in excess of what people are used to from Rec 709 LCD's.
In terms of UHD feature set, they are premium though.
Marty Chinn
Member
Do you mean LG and Samsung sets have been officially certified or they just meet the requirements and could be certified? I know there's an option for existing sets to get certified after the fact, but I wasn't aware of any that had been officially certified and was on the market. I also admit I haven't been keeping up with that and assumed we really wouldn't see certified sets until the latter half of 2016.
I also had not heard companies were deciding not to get certified. That just sounds dumb and confusing to a consumer. It feels like a mess that should just be avoided so everyone can know clearly if they're getting something that meets the criteria. Heck, I just went to Vizio's site and it was really hard to determine what spec they're meeting for their implementation for HDR on their upcoming M series sets.
That is true =)
I really can't wait for the dust to settle so that quality 4K projectors can start coming down in price. Playing around with a 1080p projector has definitely given me the itch to get the ball rolling.
Adam Tyner
Member
Officially. You can see the badging here for LG's 2016 OLEDs, for instance, and Samsung issued a press release announcing that they've received UHD Premium certification for their entire '16 line.
8-bit video allows for a maximum of 256 shades of each primary color (RGB) wherein the presence of all 3 maxed (255,255,255) is the whitest light the TV can reproduce and the lack of light is the darkest black (0,0,0).
Increasing the number of bits alone allows for more shades within that color range. For example 10 bits max white would be (1023, 1023, 1023). This should most easily be perceived as smoother color gradients (reduced banding).
HDR's goal is to increase dynamic range (contrast between the darkest blacks and whitest whites) as well as widen the color gamut (reproduce-able range of color).
10-bit color is a standard of HDR because if you widen the color gamut without increasing the number of shades the resultant banding would actually become more apparent.
Caayn
Member
Highly agree with you. Thanks for adding more details to my post
Not all 2016 UHD Samsungs will have the UHD Premium badge, only the ones in Samsung's "SUHD" series will carry the UHD premium badge.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
As to the 4K TVs, they have been mainstream for a while now.
This chart means absolutely nothing other than more TVs are getting made with 4K. That's it. It doesn't point to high sales in the least.
foolishoptimist
Member
I bought a 46" 1080P Bravia in 2007 - still works perfect.
I just upgraded to a 55" 4K Bravia for half the price of my old set.
I'd wanted to upgrade for a while, but it's hard to justify it when you're prev set works fine.
But lower prices make that easier.
Hawk269
Member
HDR is new and your 900a wont support it, even 2015 4k TV's don't have HDR. HDR is something completely new that has come out this year, it requires the ability for the panel to be brighter and colors pop a lot more. It is actually pretty amazing. Most people that have seen HDR say it is a bigger leap than 4k, but since what makes it look so good is the combination of both the HDR Tech and 4k resolution.
So far 4k Blu Ray's support HDR and some streaming services are introducing/have introduced HDR enabled films.
Hawk269
Member
It has morphed into various sub-topics, most still surrounding the initial OP, but a lot going back and forth on different things. Kind of been off topic for a while now since there has been no new news/leaks as of yet. The OP has info apparently, but due to various reasons he is not posting them at this time.
Hawk269
Member
Oh yeah. It is pretty impressive. I have had a 4k set for 3 years now and when I checked out HDR the other day it was very impressive. While 4k was really good jump for me, HDR + 4k is really a big improvement.
Melchiah
Member
There seems to be a different mindset about HD remasters as well; PS4/XBO remasters = bad, rumored NX remasters = no complaints.
Always-honest
Banned
Or different people thinking different things.
mejin
Member
People with double standards I'd say.
Negotiator
Banned
This. Nintendo seems to get a free pass all the time.
Oh yes, so unfair, look at the success of their latest console. Forum opinions seem to be working great for bigN.
It will never happens. Sony is not that much 'for the players' when they can have easy extra money reselling older games.
Negotiator
Banned
I wasn't talking sales-wise.
For example, hardcore players tend to dismiss PS4 remasters, even if they're quality games (ie TLOU), but on the other hand they give a free pass to bigN for releasing Zelda remasters.
Care to explain this one?
Glendemonium
Member
Guess this marks the beginning that game consoles are going to be what TVs, PCs, and smartphones are now. New model until a couple years down the road the bigger and better version of it is out, BUY THAT NOW!!
Technology grows and expands so fast these days, in a weird way I can't see the current gen consoles keep up with that kind of change.
Sure I'm a little bummed because I just bought my PS4 last October, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get the new and improved one. I don't know how iphone and PC owners manage it, but that's just too much money for me to burn.
Technology grows and expands so fast these days, in a weird way I can't see the current gen consoles keep up with that kind of change.
Sure I'm a little bummed because I just bought my PS4 last October, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get the new and improved one. I don't know how iphone and PC owners manage it, but that's just too much money for me to burn.