I know but this is also why I'm scratching my head on how this thing will perform close to a 4070 in real world games...that is close to 80percent faster than the ps5 and assuming the rt capabilities are on par.
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
ChiefDada
Gold Member
DF is also guilty of making bonehead mistakes with their methodology. This is one of those instances.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Maybe 4070 only has 45% increase in rendering
PS5 Pro is 70% faster after all
And console optimization will always mean better real time results than an equivalent GPU on PC
Bojji
Member
I could have show you few examples from my PC but it would take too much time to download and install this stuff when you will probably don't agree with me in the end anyway.
On pc you can instantly tell when you are cpu limited by looking at GPU usage, when it's below 100% GPU is bottlenecked by CPU. You may like or not like Alex but he is huge nerd and knows what he is doing on pc.
This was true back in dx9/10/11 days, console developers back then had much more direct access to the hardware. However with dx12 and Vulcan this is not true anymore and many tests show that GPUs comparable to the ones in consoles perform very similar on average.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Only this stuff is not public PR nor a controlled leak, but someone copying the documentation for devs where Sony has NO history of bullshitting in terms of performance numbers they give to their devs choosing measured performance over hype.
So, no, you are missing the mark here.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Or bottlenecked by your own GPU code. You are also assuming the CPU overhead on PC is as small as on consoles.
The gap is still there CPU overhead wise, even on GPU for example flexibility wise even on XSX|S they have more direct access to the RT resources. On console you also have the advantage of the same consistent specs on all models (I do not put too too much stock in their equivalent specs comparisons as there is more often than not something odd in their console baseline that makes their testing a tad moot
ChiefDada
Gold Member
It has nothing to do with me liking or disliking Alex. The specific video you and Slimy referred to was flawed as a CPU benchmark. They changed graphical presets (RT) while keeping the CPU and GPU constant. By doing this, it is impossible to determine whether the CPU or GPU was the primary bottleneck. In later sections of the video, it becomes more clear that the RT effect is more GPU limited as Tom's testing of a higher class CPU yielded the same fps count for the 3090 with like for like RT settings.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This can't be 599 without the disk drive...
I need to see this running games but it looks like the money is on AI upscaling to make up the lacking specs on the cpu. Memory is welcomed.
I was hoping for 18 to 20 tf of raster performance with the ai upscaling/frame gen.
If it's priced what I feel is correct which I feel should be £579 with a disk drive. I'll grab one. If not my standard will do, as I haven't touched it since spider man 2.
I need to see this running games but it looks like the money is on AI upscaling to make up the lacking specs on the cpu. Memory is welcomed.
I was hoping for 18 to 20 tf of raster performance with the ai upscaling/frame gen.
If it's priced what I feel is correct which I feel should be £579 with a disk drive. I'll grab one. If not my standard will do, as I haven't touched it since spider man 2.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No, they were not. They said it was faster at running FP16 code as it was running that code at twice the rate. We will see what they get out of dual issuing with the RDNA4 changes they are bringing in and whatever they have learned over RDNA3 in terms of their shader compiler tech (again this is a closed box console) to improve performance with minimal dev efforts.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I wouldn’t bet on it coming anywhere near 3x the performance in any game.
As for Spider-Man, just use PresentMon and you should get your answer.
Also, that means people will stop bitching about DF using a fast CPU on PCs in comparisons, correct? Because now, everyone claims there was never any CPU bottleneck so why were so many crying about the 13900K if the PS5 wasn’t CPU-limited anyway?
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alucard0712_rus
Banned
GT7 VR in 90fps and higher resolution? I will buy the console just for that.
Physiognomonics
Member
So with a bit of optimization they could run their game at 60fps. I have seen NXgamer showing Gotham Knights was actually often GPU limited and badly optimized (like Plague). Their next patch greatly improved things.
My point is those Zen 2 are much much more powerful than the Jaguars (3 or 4 times more) and with some work 99% of games should be able to run at 60fps. We'll know more about Dragon Dogma but it's probably GPU limited and badly optimized (CPU).
About Ray Tracing I am expecting it to be much less CPU demanding on Pro because of dedicated hardware (and caches).
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DrDamn
Member
My take on the CPU boost is that for PS4 Pro they understood that in order to up the resolution in the way they wanted (base res increase and checkboard) they needed that CPU increase. For PS5 Pro they've looked at what is needed to get the resolution/image quality/framerate up (base res and/or PSSR upscale) and decided that a smaller increase will work. In addition the RT boost, which is much more significant, should help in games where that is the bottleneck to higher framerates.
Is it going to solve it for all games? No. It'll help with a very significant majority though and for both Sony and consumers there does need to be a balance with costs and the rest of the system.
Is it going to solve it for all games? No. It'll help with a very significant majority though and for both Sony and consumers there does need to be a balance with costs and the rest of the system.
TheRedRiders
Member
Just on a side note - since all these specs are leaking from what I assume is documentation. Can we expect Mark Cerny to give a presentation on the Pro during GDC?
Loxus
Member
For the people defending this Zen2, 8 Core, 3.85GHz, 4MB Cache CPU.
Never forget this.
There is only so much you can get out of the CPU in the PS5 with new games.
PS5 has 2-3 modes. A performance and fidelity mode. Sometimes a fidelity RT mode.
If you all are happy with 25/55fps becoming a stable 30/60fps, that's fine by me.
But for something called the "Pro", I expected the Pro to have a performance fidelity RT mode.
Guess I'll agree with
HeisenbergFX4
and wait and see.
Never forget this.
There is only so much you can get out of the CPU in the PS5 with new games.
PS5 has 2-3 modes. A performance and fidelity mode. Sometimes a fidelity RT mode.
If you all are happy with 25/55fps becoming a stable 30/60fps, that's fine by me.
But for something called the "Pro", I expected the Pro to have a performance fidelity RT mode.
Guess I'll agree with
HeisenbergFX4
and wait and see.For the people defending this Zen2, 8 Core, 3.85GHz, 4MB Cache CPU.
Never forget this.
There is only so much you can get out of the CPU in the PS5 with new games.
PS5 has 2-3 modes. A performance and fidelity mode. Sometimes a fidelity RT mode.
If you all are happy with 25/55fps becoming a stable 30/60fps, that's fine by me.
But for something called the "Pro", I expected the Pro to have a performance fidelity RT mode.
Guess I'll agree with
Why did you think Sony was going to change the CPU into something different? It really doesn't make sense for a thing that is meant to be a stopgap product.
Also, assuming Sony did go with a 16 core CPU,it would been the Ryzen 4800 type CPU with 4 clusters or something further cut down.
winjer
Gold Member
That statement aged like vinegar.
Most games are still using only one or two main threads, that limit performance, while the rest of the CPU cores are idle or with low usage.
Even game engines that are widely utilized, have this huge problem. Such as Unreal and Unity.
It would have been a better option to take out 2 cores and up the L3 cache to 8+8MB. Or even to 16+16MB, like desktop Zen2 CPUs.
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DrDamn
Member
PS5 has 2-3 modes. A performance and fidelity mode. Sometimes a fidelity RT mode.
If you all are happy with 25/55fps becoming a stable 30/60fps, that's fine by me.
But for something called the "Pro", I expected the Pro to have a performance fidelity RT mode.
Guess I'll agree with
PS5 *games* have these modes, not the PS5. The PS5 Pro will automatically improve those game modes where they aren't stable, but with game patching should also allow for what you are expecting too. PS5 Pro enhanced modes with better image quality, RT and frame rates.
There may even be some clever stuff it could apply automatically without game patches - we'll have to see when they actually release the official information.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Resolution has literally nothing to do with the CPU, EXCEPT if you're doing RT that scales with resolution (more RT = heavier CPU load).
Loxus
Member
True more cache is always better and 8 core Zen4c solves the cache issue a bit by doubling the cache.
Don't forget consoles have to dedicate 1-2 cores for OS. That already leaves 6-7 cores for games.
In that video, Cerny list a few uses a CPU is responsible for. Animations, AI, Physics, etc. Maybe this is why devs wanted 16 cores because currently, games are lacking in those areas.
winjer
Gold Member
And it would be a full 16MB. Not just 4+4MB.
And even better, Zen4 has a much better branch predictor, meaning fewer cache misses, at the same cache size.
Even with 7C14T devs don't use all those cores. If they really wanted to have better physics, animations, etc, the cores are already there.
Having 16 cores would just mean more cores sitting idle.
DrDamn
Member
My bad, I thought I remembered something from the PS4 Pro launch info that linked these. Maybe something to do with the checkerboard implementation? Though that was linked to new specific hardware too.
Edit: Though it has to be said due to quality of the CPUs in PS4 and PS5 there would have been a lot more PS4 games which would have benefited from a bigger boost to CPU than on PS5.
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nosoynadie22
Member
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Yeah sure If Sony wants to tank the hardware sales for the normal PS5.
yamaci17
Member
no they won't lol
TheRedRiders
Member
No it wasn't - it was just building on TH's existing leak, and there is no XDNA NPU.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, that's why most PS4 Pro versions of games mainly got higher resolution and some other improvements that don't depend on the CPU. You didn't really see a lot of games going from 30 fps on PS4 to 60 on Pro. Some games tried, but few achieved a consistent 60, due to being CPU limited.
So games that are already CPU limited on PS5 won't get a big performance boost on Pro most likely (unless the reason is that they use a lot of RT stuff and the new RT hardware in the Pro can allow offloading some of that from the CPU). What it will do is give us better image quality in performance mode, and hopefully also consistent 60 fps in games that currently almost achieve that but not quite. But I don't see how it could give us the current quality modes at 60 instead of 30. It's not that big of a leap.
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Shadowstar39
Member
This right here! Who is this for? The Gaas player probably doesn't care and play on phones and other devices all the time. Those kids don't have cash for this. And since Sony and the rest are focused on those style games, and don't want to target for traditional gamers, well, they can take their ps5pro and fail with it, probably be super expensive anyway. I have the base model, that's enough. I don't feel the current graphics lacking in any way.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's for people who want performance modes with resolutions above 720p.
sncvsrtoip
Member
Price and they have to left some room to improvement for ps6
RoadHazard
Gold Member
The last Ubi game I really played was Trials Rising. Or maybe Steep, whichever of those came after. Since then they haven't made anything for me.
Edit: Where am I.
Edit: Where am I.
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peish
Member
Interesting but i dont think amd or intel have true 16 cores consumer cpu
7950x is just 2x8 cores duct taped using an iod, and performance in games are hampered by the iod connectors
Loxus
Member
Using the 3800x and 7700x as an example because the same TDP is used.
Assuming:
PS5 = 3700x @3.6GHz
PS5 Pro = 3800x @3.9GHz
Zen4 CPU = 7700x @4.5GHz
AMD Ryzen 7 7700X vs AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Instead of a 10% boost, we should be looking at a 40% boost.
If it was just a stopgap, Sony would of just double the CUs and RT performance. But instead, their doing AI, up to 4× RT and 8k.
Loxus
Member
MS did a massive campaign for 1x 18 months ahead of launch and that still really didn't tank xb1 sales.Yeah sure If Sony wants to tank the hardware sales for the normal PS5.
I doubt this would either with 8 months to go, but indeed last time pro was officially unveiled just a month before launch.
Leaks happened almost exactly the same though.
They really don't though, cpu overhead for RT is largely a parallel of regular draw call/scene updates. Ie. Its always a much smaller deal on consoles re. PC.
Eg. Like how we could push 4 times more draw(cpu) on a Jaguar then the Oculus recommended PC with dx12 when VR was launching.
Fidelity does affect it, if RT is higher detail, there's more for cpu to update, but its not heavy lifting in any sense of the word.
onnextflix5
Member
Zen 2 and 16gb ram, kinda pointless upgrade if these are true,
Will Microsoft respond, they should be able to easily beat these specs, maybe they won’t as they look like they want to get out of the hardware business.
Will Microsoft respond, they should be able to easily beat these specs, maybe they won’t as they look like they want to get out of the hardware business.
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Horseganador
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
And this right here is what a lot of people are not getting.
I have been suggesting that a PS5pro is designed to take those 30fps quality mode games to 60fps in their current state. Being that for them to run at a locked 30fps they would need to average 35-45fps internally to begin with. And as you said, this is a worst-case scenario analysis, ignoring any benefits that may come from dual issue compute, hardware accelerated PSSR...etc. So I guess that we end up with a situation where every game has a quality mode that is either 40fps or sitting at 50-60fps which puts it firmly within the VRR sweet spot and a performance mode that is 80fps+ with far better IQ.
And then we have the people talking about CPU bottlenecks. I do not know how many times it needs to be said, the PS5 is not trying to run games at 100-144hz. It's trying to run them at 60hz. If there is a game that in performance mode struggles to hit 60fps on the current PS5, the PS5pro would easily smooth that over while maintaining an overall higher rez.
I don't know how many times, or consoles need to be released for people to understand that comparing console to PC performance is always going to be an apples-to-oranges affair.
Wooxsvan
Member
cool and all, but i want to know what this thing is going to do to help unpatched games. I am thinking/wondering if in those the uplift in framerate will be less than ps4 pro was. I am convinced patched and future games will use this tech wonderfully but again, how about those unpatched games...
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
PlayStation’s new Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR), which will first be integrated into the PlayStation 5 Pro is internally aiming for 4K 120 FPS and 8K 60FPS console gaming, Insider Gaming has learned.
The news comes following this week’s leaks of the PS5 Pro, which revealed that the PlayStation 5 Pro (codenamed Trinity) will be incorporating PSSR to upscale to higher resolutions. Currently, PSSR works on SKD 9.00 in the PlayStation 5 Pro to bring 4K resolutions.
Insider Gaming has also revealed more specifications on the upcoming PlayStation 5 Pro, which you can read here.
Outlined in documents provided to Insider Gaming under the condition that they are not made public, PlayStation’s ambitions with PSSR is to achieve 4K 120FPS and 8K 60FPS. Whilst these are not the targets for the PS5 Pro due to hardware limitations, it is the internal goal for PSSR in future console interactions. The PlayStation 5 Pro PSSR currently supports 3840×2160 and is currently aiming for 4K 60 FPS and 8K 30FPS, but it’s unclear if those internal milestones can be passed.
PSSR Memory Requirements is roughly 250MB; 180MB from the PSML Library and 64MB from the game.
Two Case Studies for two unnamed first-party games include:
Game 1
Target – image quality close to Fidelity Mode (1800p) with Performance Mode FPS (60 FPS)Standard PlayStation 5 –
- Performance Mode – 1080p at 60FPS
- Fidelity Mode – 1800p at 30FPS
- 1440p at 60FPS (PSSR used)
Game 2
Target – Add Raytracing to gameplayStandard PlayStation 5 achieved 60FPS without raytracing, and PlayStation 5 Pro achieved 60FPS with Raytracing.
For those who don't want to click
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Wooxsvan
Member
read the article. they are referring to "future consoles" for that number
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Whilst these are not the targets for the PS5 Pro due to hardware limitations, it is the internal goal for PSSR in future console interactions. The PlayStation 5 Pro PSSR currently supports 3840×2160 and is currently aiming for 4K 60 FPS and 8K 30FPS, but it’s unclear if those internal milestones can be passed.
Loxus
Member
So he knows everything and plans on drip feeding us like birds?
Rocco Schiavone
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Not sure how he plans on going about releasing more info but I don't expect anything huge moving forward unless we get some leaked in game videos
Its now going to be a long haul until official reveal around Sept (ish) would be my guess