lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
we are not going to get a gaming PC
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
bitbydeath
Member
People are underestimating what this bump means.
Remember we did get a slight glimpse of gaming in 8K once.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that demo was running at 1440p 30 fps.People are underestimating what this bump means.
Remember we did get a slight glimpse of gaming in 8K once.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Nah it's 5000 series. I want to upgrade to the 7800x3d and get an AM5 motherboard and obviously DDR5 RAM. I'm confused here, you're saying even with this dated set up (sans GPU) my rig is twice as powerful? So I'm basing this off OP. Can you or someone clarify...is it 33 TFLOPS or 67 TFLOPS?
bitbydeath
Member
And 8K textures.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
From what limited knowledge I have actually comparing to the PS5 it’s really half the 33 TF number
Besides too many people are missing the main thing in all this even if it was 100TFs
- Rendering 45% faster than PS5
Bojji
Member
It's 33.5 RDNA3 dual issue teraflops.
This GPU is comparable to 16.75TF RDNA2 GPU (PS5 is around 10).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont think you know anything about the state of RT gaming on PC if you think games are not CPU limited. They are especially limited in RT games. Its the reason why so many games ditch RT in performance modes on consoles. Even if the GPU can handle it, the CPU cant.
Now the latest and greatest CPUs from nvidia and AMD routinely hit 4.5-5.0 ghz which is why CPU limitations might not affect people rocking expensive rt GPUs. But people have done testing on these zen 2 CPUs and they are trash. utter garbage. and these CPUs are better than the trash cerny stuck inside the PS5. the only hope was that the increase in clockspeed to 4.5 ghz would help it overcome those bottlenecks much like zen 4 CPUs but 3.8 GHz just wont do.
Go ahead and look up how spiderman, star wars, hogwarts, forspoken, callisto, and virtually every single rt game is CPU bottlenecked on PC. You can plug a 3080 or a 4090 in there and unless you use a faster CPU, you are not going to fully utilize the GPU. Its just not going to happen. just watch the video i linked earlier.
i mean in one week, you are going to get dragons dogma 2 on consoles and its going to be 30 fps likely because its CPU bound due to RT effects. And its not just RT causing issues. Games like FF16, Skull and bones, Guardians of the Galaxy and alan wake 2 are dropping to 720p or struggling to hold 60 fps at 1080p. and they dont even have RT. a big CPU upgrade was needed here and they blew it.
bitbydeath
Member
Incorrect.
AMD RDNA 3 GPU Architecture Deep Dive: The Ryzen Moment for GPUs
Swimming with the next generation GPUs
This GPU is comparable to 33.5TF RDNA2 GPU (PS5 is around 10).
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I can look at Spider-Man on PS5 with RT and see that it’s doing something most would consider impossible on consoles
I am not suggesting RT perf wouldn’t get better with more competent CPUs, but presumably that’s the exact reason why Cerny is going with dedicated increases to RT hardware with this refresh, that matters a lot more to RT than increasing the CPU ever would
He clearly knows a lot more than you or I about building a well balanced affordable machine.
Bulletbrain
Member
Which part is bogus?2-4x RT uplift or 3.8ghz zen 2 CPU?
jm89
Member
Noxxera
Banned
Like.. everything.
Noxxera
Banned
I'm the one gonna laugh my ass off at you come december.
Bulletbrain
Member
PS5pro(bably fake)
Noxxera
Banned
Yep, not probably it is
Bojji
Member
Incorrect.
AMD RDNA 3 GPU Architecture Deep Dive: The Ryzen Moment for GPUs
Swimming with the next generation GPUswww.tomshardware.com
This GPU is comparable to 33.5TF RDNA2 GPU (PS5 is around 10).
Not at all, but we had this discussion many times already.
6800 is 16.17TF
7700XT is 35.17TF
Real world performance is:
bitbydeath
Member
I provided proof, your feelings that it’s something else is just wrong. Your assumption is that it means RDNA3 is a downgrade from RDNA2, that should have been a red flag.Not at all, but we had this discussion many times already.
6800 is 16.17TF
7700XT is 35.17TF
Real world performance is:
Bojji
Member
It isn't a downgrade, they just report 2x more tflops compared to how those GPUs behave in games (vs rdna2). People are confused.
bitbydeath
Member
Yet as posted above, AMD state otherwise…
What made you think this?
Ashamam
Member
I think there are at least 4 independent sources now that have some credibility. The documents just sealed the deal. Care to provide your sources for it not being? Other than your gut.?
So
Tom Henderson
Colin Moriarty
Moores Law
Jeff Grubb
NX Gamer
Here we have
HeisenbergFX
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
spiderman is just doing rt reflections and already drops below 1080p. those other games are doing a lot more rt effects which is why they cause a bottleneck on the CPU. it makes zero sense to increase rt performance by 2-4x and then cheap out on the CPU when the CPU is the major bottleneck.
And here is spiderman 1 on PC with ray tracing. look at how the zen 2 cpu effectively turns the 3090 into a little bitch. if Cerny's goal was to get his GPU up to par with a 3080 then he's just handicapped his own GPU with the smallest of CPU upgrades.
And no, the same cerny guy bottlenecked the PS4 Pro with a tiny memory bandwidth upgrade. He did well with the PS5 but his rival Jason Ronald and all the geniuses over at Xbox who know better than me or you produced a console that loses half the face/offs against the PS5 because the geniuses decided to clock the GPU to RDNA1 clocks all the while trying to hit that magical 12 tflops number. You put too much faith into these people. we just had Sony's own CEO tank the stocks of his company losing them billions in a week forcing them to shed people from their most successful business because the idiot CEO threw them under the bus.
if these geniuses knew what they were doing, it wouldnt have taken them 6 years to bring RT up to par with nvidia.
Brigandier
Gold Member
Will the increase in Ram bandwidth mean anything??
Also wasn't Cerny supposed to be working on some kind of RT hardware/software? I'm very interested in seeing what PSSR can do!!
Nonsense.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
It really isn't comparable though because this isn't RDNA3 and the closed development environment is very different and more advantageous for dual issue programming.
God of War Ragnarok would be an excellent candidate for this. IQ is already super crisp but some PSSR AA would be next level.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
how are people reacting? it seems this is not a big deal because the same CPU speed.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Yeah... because of asset decompression. You know that thing Cerny specifically ensured PS5 CPU wouldn't have to strain over with its super duper ASIC decompressor and i/o stack.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, its bizarre to see people ignoring that figure. We dont need tflops or IPC gains or secret sauce or console optimization nonsense because we already have THE performance number direct from sony themselves.
Is there a chance that the CPU got an upgrade from zen 2 to zen 4? this 10% cpu increase might not be so bad when paired up with a 30% IPC gain increase amd achieved when going from zen 2 to zen 4. Why are we assuming that Sony is Sticking with zen 2 if they have no problems upgrading the gpu to rdna 4?
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bender
What time is it?
He's showing us the dangers of eating paint chips.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
its not just the cpu decompression. its mainly RT.
Nah it's mainly decompression which is why the 2070S and 3600 DF used in their performance analysis fell way below PS5. Nixxes confirmed all of this with Alex. You can see below 3600 is comfortably above 60fps with high RT in CPU limited testing.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude did you not see my screenshot? It literally shows rt off vs rt on.Nah it's mainly decompression which is why the 2070S and 3600 DF used in their performance analysis fell way below PS5. Nixxes confirmed all of this with Alex. You can see below 3600 is comfortably above 60fps with high RT in CPU limited testing.
It doesn’t matter if the 3600 can do 60 fps on a last Gen game with just one run rt effect, the point is that even that game is holding back a powerful gpu like the 3090. If cernys intention is to get rt performance up to speed with the 3080 or 4070 then he needed a bigger cpu upgrade.
Other games with more rt effects than just reflections completely crush the 3600 and bottleneck any gpu you attach to that 3600. Which itself is way better than the ps5 zen 2.
I play PC games and i know exactly how heavy these games are on the cpu. Especially CPUs with lower clocks like these zen 2 cpus. I’ve gone through this with almost a dozen games in the last couple of years alone. Rt is expensive on the cpu. It’s not rocket science.
Codeblew
Member
I will build a new gaming PC when GTA6 releases on PC in 2 years. My Ryzen 7700X with 6700XT and 32GB ram should hold me over until then.
Getting PS5 Pro on day 1.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Seriously you can't be this dense. Those other games likely have exceed the RT capabilities on the GPU, which is then causing the issue that you are seeing.
You are making so many reactionary, hyperbolic, ridiculous comments. Just STOP. We know the RT performance increase - it's 2-4X per the documentation. According to you, because the CPU isn't upgraded, the RT performance gain is 0%.
WRONG.
Mark Cerny didn't "BOTTLENECK" the Pro. He was given a budgetary constraint to work with, and developed the system around that. Always is the case. I also have never put Jason Ronald on a pedestal for great hardware. Microsoft has never made great hardware. They are not a hardware company. But Sony is, and Mark Cerny has a proven track record going back to the 80s.
It's laughable that you are even questioning him on any of this.
FalconPunch
Member
Personally, I can’t wait to replace my 2 ps5s with 2 pros. I’ll be getting it on day one and i wish they’d let us preorder already. The ps5 is already struggling and we need more power. And to the pc marketers in this thread, we don’t care. Some of us already have pcs and still want a pro. I have a 4090 + 7800x3d system with a QD Oled monitor and it mostly gathers dust. After working on a pc all day, very few want to sit on the pc and game.
Pc would be more interesting if it had unique games that really took advantage of the hardware. Unfortunately, to date, there are only 2 games since Turing released which actually make playing on pc worth it. Cyberpunk and AW2. I already beat Cyberpunk on pc and aw2 is boring. The rest of the games are just console games at high resolutions and frame rates which is just boring. Even the games that have RT bolted on are not transformative at all and most of those games have RT on console for those who want it.
Pc would be more interesting if it had unique games that really took advantage of the hardware. Unfortunately, to date, there are only 2 games since Turing released which actually make playing on pc worth it. Cyberpunk and AW2. I already beat Cyberpunk on pc and aw2 is boring. The rest of the games are just console games at high resolutions and frame rates which is just boring. Even the games that have RT bolted on are not transformative at all and most of those games have RT on console for those who want it.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Um yeah and most of that fps clawback going from on to off would be on the GPU side.
Ok Slimy. You know best.
People will get REALLY disappointed when they find out they won't get that 2-4X performance boost in Ray Tracing on the most demanding current-gen games (news flash: RT also increases CPU requirements).
This is EXACTLY like the 8K logo Sony added to PS5 (which promised 8K capabilities... yeah, when the console can barely render demanding games at 900p), and how "game-changing" the PS5 SSD would be as it would "completely change the way devs develop their games, opening entirely new experiences that could have never been achieved". It's funny watching people falling into the same hype cycle over and over and over and over. Some people never learn.
This is EXACTLY like the 8K logo Sony added to PS5 (which promised 8K capabilities... yeah, when the console can barely render demanding games at 900p), and how "game-changing" the PS5 SSD would be as it would "completely change the way devs develop their games, opening entirely new experiences that could have never been achieved". It's funny watching people falling into the same hype cycle over and over and over and over. Some people never learn.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What are you talking about? That doesn’t even make any sense.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Bojji
Member
This scene is literal CPU benchmark, GPU is underutilized (less than 100%). GPU could render more frames but cpu can't keep up with rt.
Digital foundry have made many videos on cpu cost of ray tracing
HALF of performance is lost here and that's entirely on CPU side.
Proelite
Member
Incorrect.
AMD RDNA 3 GPU Architecture Deep Dive: The Ryzen Moment for GPUs
Swimming with the next generation GPUs
This GPU is comparable to 33.5TF RDNA2 GPU (PS5 is around 10).
Huh? If that's the case, the 7000 series will be doubling up on the 6000 series in benchmarks at every tier.
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SegaSnatcher
Member
How is 33.3 Tflop possible? That has to be pumped up number using Ray Tracing to hit that. What is the actual GPU compute? 18 Tflop?
Bojji
Member
16.75 but IF developers start to use this dual issue stuff it can potentially come closer to that 33.5 number. This reminds me of 8tf for fp16 calculations on PS4 pro, fanboys were saying that it was stronger than Xbox one x, hahaha.
SegaSnatcher
Member
A bit lower than what I was expecting, but 2 - 3x better ray tracing performance should be nice for the games that utilize it.
Will this be enough to take unlocked FPS modes that hover in the 40 - 50fps range to 60fps?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
This scene is literal CPU benchmark, GPU is underutilized (less than 100%). GPU could render more frames but cpu can't keep up with rt.
Digital foundry have made many videos on cpu cost of ray tracing
HALF of performance is lost here and that's entirely on CPU side.
Maybe I'm blind as hell but in the pic I dont see any visual improvement at half the frames.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
No it's not.
Here, let me help you buddy. Even with a higher class CPU, 12400 vs 11400, the 3090 optimized/High RT and max/Very High RT are clocking at same FPS
ChiefDada
Gold Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
40 x1.45 = 58fps
50*1.45 = 72.5fps
And these are worst case scenario/assuming pure rasterization. RT games will see even higher uplift.