nial
Member
There are 39 PS1 games, 33 PSP games, and 4 PS2 games (excluding the 53 games released on PS4 in 2015-2018) as of now.
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
digital_ghost
Member
Good to see the PS5 Pro discussion is going strong.
We finally have some insight on RDNA3.5.
So, RDNA3.5 is basically the same as RDNA3 with 1 Shader Engine having 2 Shader Arrays, with 4 WGP in each Shader Array.
RDNA4 rumors has the same 4 WGP per Shader Array.
Where does this put PS5 Pro having 8WGP per Shader Array?
I have an idea what may be going on.
This tweet may explain how the PS5 Pro having 8WGP per Shader Array may work.
My guess is Cerny probably figured out how go above 5 WGP per Shader Array without losing performance like the XBSX using subarrays. Most likely the increase in cache is the reason.
Another guess for still using subarrays, is 1 subarray could be dedicated with assisting in AI/RT tasks.
PS5 Pro having RDNA3/4 with subarrays makes it near fully custom, since RDNA2 and up don't use subarrays.
I guess we'll find out in time what going on.
PeteBull
Member
Lets see whats in storeSame with me I have really no limit so let me follow up
Could another platform tempt you away from the PS5 Pro for around $1000 for the best experience for GTA?
nial
Member
I am still waiting for your response in that other thread.
vivftp
Member
I've been waiting for the PS5 Pro since day 1 when I booted up my launch PS5 and was faced with the decision of playing Demon's Souls either on quality or performance modes. I want a definitive console version and the Pro will help provide that on so many games, past and future.
As for SIEs pipeline, it is extremely deep. 2024 is just the start and we're almost certain to get a good look at their next wave of titles soon if they hold a Showcase in September to coincide with the Pro reveal. Should be less than 3 months to go now.
and lol @ "bad management"
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Msamy
Member
Yes bad management when you focus all of your first party studios into making gaas games then cancell most of thim and even close studios like London studio because of this strategy that's bad management and you don't think this bad management lol,I've been waiting for the PS5 Pro since day 1 when I booted up my launch PS5 and was faced with the decision of playing Demon's Souls either on quality or performance modes. I want a definitive console version and the Pro will help provide that on so many games, past and future.
As for SIEs pipeline, it is extremely deep. 2024 is just the start and we're almost certain to get a good look at their next wave of titles soon if they hold a Showcase in September to coincide with the Pro reveal. Should be less than 3 months to go now.
and lol @ "bad management"
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Msamy
Member
About what i am talking about current gen games with good graphics not cross gen title's and current gen , remakes with ps4 graphics , no sony first party studio develop any current gen only title with good graphics like (hellblade 2, alanwake 2, avatar and etc,) until now
brenobnfm
Member
None of Demon's Souls, Horizon, God of War, Spider-man 2, Returnal and the likes run at their full potential on PS5, you're always choosing performance or graphics mode, so yeah, you're have no idea what you're talking about.
Playboi Carti
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I will always have a nice PC and will be rocking a 5090 by the time the PS6 comes out.Could you be tempted away from said other platform to play an even better better version of GTA6 for a lot less than $1000 if you wait just a bit longer for the PS6?
Heh, if both companies are gonna be leapfrogging one another every couple of years then I dunno how this is really gonna work out.
Plus I would 100% drop a grand on a new console if it can align with GTA6 launch because I have a feeling the Pro is going to be priced more than current consoles now so what’s a few hundred more dollars
nial
Member
Talking about this.
I mean, only ND and Insomniac got their GAAS projects cancelled, and then obviously not all of them were put into making GAAS, like Santa Monica Studio, Team Asobi, Sucker Punch, Polyphony Digital, etc, or they also keep making SP projects, like Guerrilla.Yes bad management when you focus all of your first party studios into making gaas games then cancell most of thim and even close studios like London studio because of this strategy that's bad management and you don't think this bad management lol,
Msamy
Member
You can read Bloomberg article about how many cancelled sony first party gaas titles and also effect of gaas games in first party output in this generation, even studio like London studio built up new next gen engine from scratch for their new gaas title and sony awarded them by closing the studio
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nial
Member
I have already read all of what you're talking about, you're still trying to avoid the conversation by focusing on one particular example, or telling me to read something else.
Eiknarf
Banned
That's false, games run significantly better than og hw.
They don't unlock framerates, but unless original game was perfect you get improvements.
If ps3 emulation did the same, you'd get lots of opportunities for doubling of fps given how badly sw that gen ran.
It's essential about 50% of the time, be it to troubleshoot compatibility, performance or games just starting with godawful defaults (like, significantly worse than console defaults).
So yes sometimes things just work out of the box, but you never know ahead of time, and they don't often enough to not be insignificant.
Mind you I still choose PC as my primary (more so now, with portable being a real choice) but console still offers noticeably smoother ux.
Investor9872
Member
That new console won't be a Playstation (as you have already alluded to), of which I am 99.99% sure that you are correct!
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vivftp
Member
Yes bad management when you focus all of your first party studios into making gaas games then cancell most of thim and even close studios like London studio because of this strategy that's bad management and you don't think this bad management lol,
I would suggest educating yourself before making such statements.
Of the studios who primarily focused on single player games before the current live service push, only Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, London Studios and to some degree Insomniac were doing live service games. Guerrilla's game is still in dev. Naughty Dog opted to stop dev on TLOU Online as the required resources to properly support that game would leave nothing for their single player games - and remember it was Naughty Dog who chose to make an ambitious live service game, SIE only provided the additional resources to let them work on it. London Studios chose to go with a fantasy live service game and the studio was shut down, we don't have specifics on why. Insomniac apparently had considered a live service Spider-Man game but aren't going ahead with that. I haven't paid attention to the data from the hack so I don't know how far those plans ever went, but I'm guessing not very far given how many other projects the studio has.
So no, that was not all their first party studios, not by a long shot. Games get cancelled all the time in the world of video games, this is nothing new. Studios also get closed, this is also nothing new. All of the other live service games that are part of their initiative come from partners or newly acquired studios. Those being Arrowhead, Haven, Firewalk, Bungie, Neon Koi and NCSoft. There was also a Twisted Metal game reportedly that started with Lucid but then got moved to Firesprite and then was reportedly cancelled earlier this year. Again, games get cancelled all the time, live service and single player. That's just the nature of video games. Sony would have known when they announced their live service initiative that not every game would make it across the finish line, it would be statistically unlikely to release every single game.
vivftp
Member
Every person will have to make their own decision based on the facts available at the time. I do have to wonder if such a console with that sort of price tag were to come out, just how much effort third party devs would put into maximizing the hardware? After all it's not like there would be a significant volume of those consoles sold, so what sort of ROI would the studios expect? Now if this 1k console were to run PC versions of games then maybe things could make more sense - then again we have no idea when the PC version of GTA6 will land.
We'll have to see how the PS5 Pro does, but at least we have the PS4 Pro track record to use as a starting point. At least there the third party devs could anticipate a userbase above 10 million to cater to. Plus if Sony does happen to lock down the marketing for it then such a deal could also include a really optimized Pro version of the game.
In the end, trying to answer these questions without knowing all that much about the hardware and not seeing the differences in how games run on the hardware is quite difficult. The proof will be in the pudding. For Sony that proof can potentially be shown off as early as 3 months from now. For Xbox, this hardware you speak of is somewhere in the area of 2 years out, no?
nial
Member
I'm still waiting for Den-Sen and Splash Dive.
SCEI's PS2 Release List - IGN
Sony Computer Entertainment today updated its list of games scheduled for release on the PlayStation 2 in Japan. Anyway, here's the list:
Bernardougf
Member
Sorry .. I dont buy new systems to play old games.. I buy new systems for new games or games I haven't played yet .... and as far as GTA VI is concerned, I'll wait and see... first if it is a good game, second if it can be played at 60 fps.Nonsense. Forget about future 1st party games like Astrobot and GoT2 which of course will be supported with Pro in mind. Returnal, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Ratchet; I will do a full rerun of all these games if they have the new PS5 Pro Graphics mode patched in (which they likely will). Not to mention plenty of previously released 3rd party games with RT, poor image quality, or both will benefit greatly. Oh and that little indie game GTA VI might move the needle a bit tooI'll say this again - PS5 Pro will be more successful than PS4 Pro.
If you are happy buying the system to replay your back catalog with better resolution... more power to you my friend. But for me. This is nonsense.
mitchman
Gold Member
100% upgrading day 1.
I’ll absolutely be buying a Pro - i’ve been holding off playing a few games in the hope that they‘ll receive a Pro patch (60fps mode in higher resolution). I hope some devs will do this.
Also, if the Pro comes out in November, it will have been 4 years since the release of the PS5. I wouldn’t call that “constantly upgrading”.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
It is for sure a ways out and after chatting with people during the Xbox show is still on track
That said who knows what MS will be doing 18 months from now (or even 2 months from now) as nothing would shock me
They literally could tease a new machine coming or announce they are doing making new hardware and neither would surprise me, though if I was betting I am saying the new hardware is still coming
MikeM
Gold Member
Hard to convince anyone based on pure speculation. Wait for the actual presentation from Sony then decide.
saintjules
Gold Member
Hah. It's like when you finally get a new Console after hearing about all these specs for months - when you play a game do you think about whether or not it's hitting that 5 GWP per Shader Array or whatever that is lol.
SegaSnatcher
Member
How would you even know? It hasn't even been announced yet, nor have we seen the performance gains.
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Skifi28
Member
If you found the jump from 1080p to 1440p with a ps4 pro worthy, then you'll love the bump from 720-1080p to 4k with AI. I'll take my Pro on launch day if you please, thanks!
SegaSnatcher
Member
You really shouldn't type every thought you have.
SegaSnatcher
Member
If the upscaling is on the level of DLSS then it will be a worthy upgrade.
Loxus
Member
Well, it ain't about hitting 5 WGP or not.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Cerny was always trying to make excuses. We have other RDNA2 GPUs that have higher CUs and lower clocks than the 36-40 CUs 6600 and 6700 cards and they perform just as you would expect them to relative to their tflops.Well, it ain't about hitting 5 WGP or not.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
Perrott
Member
Den-SenI'm still waiting for Den-Sen and Splash Dive.
SCEI's PS2 Release List - IGN
Sony Computer Entertainment today updated its list of games scheduled for release on the PlayStation 2 in Japan. Anyway, here's the list:www.ign.com
Action game that followed the adventures of a young girl who swings and slides along electrified sets of wires.
Damn, it would have been Boku no Natsuyasumi x inFAMOUS, except that months before the release of Boku no Natsuyasumi and nine years before the release of inFAMOUS
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TheRedRiders
Member
Well, it ain't about hitting 5 WGP or not.
It's about trying to find out why Mark Cerny changed his philosophy on CU count.
Road to PS5
"In general, I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.
Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment, don't take these configurations too seriously.
If you just calculate teraflops, you get the same number, but actually, the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.
That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33% higher frequency, rasterization goes 33% faster. Processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.
About the only downside, is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
As a friend of mine says a rising tide lifts all boats.
Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
The bolded is the most important in this case. Why would Cerny increase the CUs within the Shader Engines even though it's already hard to utilize 48CUs in parallel?
AMD also never go over 5WGP per Shader Array. How Cerny figure it out is what I'm interested in learning.
Because there's only so much performance you can extract from clocking the GPU higher and higher, eventually you'll need to start adding more CU. PS5 Pro allegedly has a an architecture bult around machine learning, which scales better with more CU over clock speed.
MisterXDTV
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I have data. Actual benchmarks from Graphics Cards. i trust facts.You sure know better than Cerny...
Loxus
Member
I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
Within a Shader Engine, there are two Shader Arrays. Each Shader Array, has about 5 WGP.
With XBSX, each Shader Array had 7 WGP, which resulted in a performance drop-off in most cases.
This is what I think Cerny was referring to. The amount of CUs per Shader Array, not the total amount of CUs.
To get avoid a performance drop-off, AMD would add another Shader Engine.
Example, 7900XTX with 6 Shader Engine and 4 WGP per Shader Array.
PS5 Pro having 8 WGP per Shader Array would most likely suffer the same fate as the XBSX. It would be better to just add another Shader Engine. You get more ROPs, cache, etc.
Understand how Cerny got around that is what I'm interested in figuring out that's all.
TheRedRiders
Member
But when we think of Cerny's design philosophy, it's usually referring to PS5's "small but fast" approach to GPU architecture over "slow but wide" on the Series X so CU Count over Clock Speed and vice versa. I don't think Cerny was referring to the SA/SE configuration specifically although that in itself is an intriguing question like you have pointed out.
They are not getting around anything with some "Cerny magic" which thousands of engineers at AMD can't figure out themselves. With 2 shader engines it's going to underperform a Navi 32 (30WGP/3SE) or the rumored specs of Navi 48 (32WGP/4SE) at equivalent clock speeds. Going with only 2SE is a cost-optimization which will result in comparatively lower performance at equivalent shader counts. If they could do this without impacting performance AMD would do it with all GPUs.
Loxus
Member
Are you sure?
"Also it's easier to fully use 36CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48CUs. When triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
Audiophile
Member
Most logical to me is still:
3 SE / 6 SA / 27 WGP / 54 CU / 3456 SP / 216 TMU / 96 ROPS
(60CU with 6CU disabled for yield)
Greater relative redundancy vs a 64CU die with 4CU disable, a smaller/cheaper die overall, run the clocks higher and it's a nice clean 50% scale up from the base PS5 layout for BC (disable one SE for base PS5/PS4 Pro games and two SE for base PS4 games).
3 SE / 6 SA / 27 WGP / 54 CU / 3456 SP / 216 TMU / 96 ROPS
(60CU with 6CU disabled for yield)
Greater relative redundancy vs a 64CU die with 4CU disable, a smaller/cheaper die overall, run the clocks higher and it's a nice clean 50% scale up from the base PS5 layout for BC (disable one SE for base PS5/PS4 Pro games and two SE for base PS4 games).
Data Ghost
Member
Will be giving the PS5 Pro a miss. I have been a console gamer all my life and currently have a Switch (buried in dust), a PS5 (covered in dust), an XSX (with slightly less dust). Since buying the highest spec gaming PC I could possibly purchase and a Steam Deck, I find myself barely touching the consoles now. They are there purely for 1st party exclusives and that's it. In fact most of the Xbox stuff I now play on PC too anyway.
Eiknarf
Banned
Nope
Not talking about gRapHiCs
Graphics don’t make a game better
Let’s think back to one example:
You couldn’t even play Cyberpunk if you had a base PS4. But if you had a PS4 Pro you could
If that ends up being the case with an existing game as of the time of the PS5 Pro launch, I’ll hand deliver you a PS5 Pro
Well, that case is already closed. Because every game that is out right now plays perfectly fine on the base PS5.
So if this unneeded PS5 Pro is coming out in November, just FiVE months from now, there will be no game that comes out between now and then that is unplayable on a base PS5 -
So I already know I won’t be buying and giving you a PS5 pro.
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this 2025 is the year just like x boxI've been waiting for the PS5 Pro since day 1 when I booted up my launch PS5 and was faced with the decision of playing Demon's Souls either on quality or performance modes. I want a definitive console version and the Pro will help provide that on so many games, past and future.
As for SIEs pipeline, it is extremely deep. 2024 is just the start and we're almost certain to get a good look at their next wave of titles soon if they hold a Showcase in September to coincide with the Pro reveal. Should be less than 3 months to go now.
and lol @ "bad management"
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Do you think the Pro is Sony's answer to the newer XBOX release in 2026? I understand the new XBOX will probably be hardware wise higher speed, but if the PS5 Pro can close that gap and allow true 4K/60 Games which we really dont even have now the new XBOX might have a 10-15% advantage in specs but might the visual jump will be negated mostly. This would allow the PS5 Pro to compete at lower price point in 2 years than a new XBOX with mostly visual parity across games until the PS6 hits?
I know the Pro was always planned and not a result of the XBOX news, but its been delayed so maybe they are or have tweaked some design / specs to allow a closer margin to the updated news?
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Mr Moose
Member
Loxus
Member
No, that part is talking about the benefits of high clocks vs low clocks with the same teraflops.Yes? It's in the image.
The part I quoted is talking about low vs high CU count utilization.
Two different things.
Mr Moose
Member
And with higher clocks things go faster?
