Bojji
Member
Games will dynamic resolution will be high res automatically, FFVII Rebirth for example looks decent when it (sometimes) achieve 1440p in performance mode. Games with shit performance modes will be 60FPS (unless they are CPU bound).
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Games will dynamic resolution will be high res automatically, FFVII Rebirth for example looks decent when it (sometimes) achieve 1440p in performance mode. Games with shit performance modes will be 60FPS (unless they are CPU bound).
Seems to be about 50% pure boost, but if PSSR is like DLSS 2 and actually patched in, then more like 200% effective boost to resolution.
It's a big difference. Something like Alan Wake 2 should get to an equivalent of 4k30, or maybe 1440p60. It basically should solve all IQ problems even on something like Jedi Survivor's performance mode.
Yeah, and there's probably another aspect to this thinking that generally gets lost: not all users are created equal. The sort of enthusiast gamer who's tempted to switch to PC is likely one who buys a LOT of games, and that's the only metric (well, plus GaaS whales) that really matters to the platform holder.
I probably buy 15-20 games a year on PS5. Does anyone seriously think the average user is doing that? It's probably more like 3 or 4. So to Sony I'm worth about 5x the average user. If I'm the average Pro user, and Pro users are 15-20% of all users, then it's therefore plausible that all Pro users are worth roughly the same as all non-Pro users.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
As someone that owns many gaming PCs and games on console too, I'll say that your statement has many context issues.
So, a $2000 PC can get you 4K 60fps (and before you waste the time to say "well yea, if you turn down a bunch of settings and remove a bunch other featu-" how the fuck do you think that is happening on Console then Phoenix? lol Did you just completely disregard that such a thing is also based on what you even have turned on or off?
We Played Some PS5 Games In Glorious 4K At 60 FPS & There's No Turning Back
Goodbye 30fps, hello 60fps.
geekculture.co
.jpg)
GTA 5's Enhanced Edition Will Run At 4K 60fps On PS5
PlayStation has revealed the enhanced version of GTA 5 will run at 4K 60fps on PS5.
www.thegamer.com
Best 4K & 60 FPS PS5 Games
The PlayStation 5 is a powerful console but not every game takes advantage of it. Which titles run at 4K and 60 fps?
gamerant.com
So many games already run 4K 60fps on PS5. I'm not sure how anyone would see that as a wild thing that PS5 Pro would have that setting, this is dependent on games...
So
Dorfdad
's statement isn't really that wild, that is already something we can see on PS5 and seeing it more on Pro isn't really the wildest guess, it would be weird if that was the one thing it didn't have or something lol ^ This.
And thank you, I don't have a clue why no one was factoring that. This is not a new fucking system, as in PS5 Pro titles from the ground up, its a new sku where the past PS5 titles will all support it, so thsoe games would run higher res, frame etc cause they are not being remade on PS5 Pro to be exclusive from the ground up or anything weird like that.
I just see this no different then how we saw PS4 to PS4 Pro or like you stated, Series S to X.
vivftp
Member
The Pro user "whales" might also be inclined to go for the premium accessories, which PlayStation has this gen for the first time. DualSense Edge, Portal, Pulse Elite and Explores, PSVR2... Sony must be making a killing off all those. I own all of em too, except the Elites only cause I have the Inzone H7, heh
I'm a
Not a rich one, but one nonetheless to them
I'm a
Not a rich one, but one nonetheless to them
vivftp
Member
Yes. Pretty much everyone expects a September announcement for a November release
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Why not ? Pc runs ultra setting and console runs mid settings , it's possible .
Toots
Gold Member
I d put a grand or two for a ps5 pro elite that could do cyberpunk 2077 ultra settings with whichever tracing is the best looking (path, ray, etc. as a matter of fact raie, which sounds exactly like ray, means crack in french, as in butt crack / raie du cul... the more you now)
But i'll settle for the one they release anyway.
But i'll settle for the one they release anyway.
MisterXDTV
Member
Why am I reading all this talk about the damn PC in a PS5 Pro thread???
Bojji
Member
Consoles are made with PC parts since 2013.
Physiognomonics
Member
Consoles are made with PC parts since almost forever. It doesn't mean shit todays. They all use available technology. The secret is how the whole package and tools are designed. In the future the most important will be tools, here RT, I/O and PSSR.
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Schmendrick
Member
no.... in the pre PS4/X1 era console hardware was never directly comparable with mass market PCs.
Not only because of the custom hardware itself but because of the "to the metal" software access it brought with it.
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winjer
Gold Member
The original Xbox was basically a PC with a Pentium 3 and a Geforce 3.
The PS3 used a capped Geforce 7900GT.
And the Dreamcast use a PowerVR GPU.
Schmendrick
Member
the original xbox was still highly customized, the PS3 had the cell, and powerVR GPUs never were in mass market PCs, let alone gaming PCs.
Direct comparisons were nearly pointless.
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winjer
Gold Member
The original Xbox was as customized as a PS4 and Xbox One. Even the OS, was just Windows with fewer services.
Only the motherboard was custom. The HDD, CPU, GPU, memory, and drive were off the shelf PC parts.
Yes, the PS3 was using more custom hardware than other consoles. But the fact remains that the GPU was a PC part.
And PowerVR was selling their GPUs on the PC space, such as the Kyro series. So the GPU was in fact a PC part.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes and no… I think.
I am not sure what the network layer was custom or not but they got it re-certified for conformance (I was working at the interop lab when they did that, two colleagues were fired I think because they were taking pics
). The GPU was semi-custom so not off the shelf and I believe the NV2A came out on Xbox first (so maybe it is the PC GPU that is an off the shelf Xbox GPU 
), but then again so are the GPUs in Xbox One and PS4.On the PowerPR front the part was designed for the Dreamcast, I would say it was quite different enough from the parts we eventually got on PC. No infinite planes support, no dedicated 2D acceleration engine, no modifier volumes support, and no HW based OIT (Order Independent Transparency) sorting. Maybe even the tile buffer size was different now that I think of it.
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Schmendrick
Member
sorry but that is "akschually" level you are going into now. You`re not gonna pretend that powerVR GPUs (aroung GF1 or 2 era I think?) were ever found in gaming PCs in noteworthy numbers, especially not ones with featuresets as in the consoles, are you? And as for the PS3, you can`t say systems are comparable just because a single component is similar, just remember what a giant pain porting was back then because those systems internal workings were entirely different.....After a short fact check you`re probably right about the xbox, though.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Granted, I made my statement without context. And I am fully aware that you can run at "native 4K" if you are dialing in the settings to support it.As someone that owns many gaming PCs and games on console too, I'll say that your statement has many context issues.
So, a $2000 PC can get you 4K 60fps (and before you waste the time to say "well yea, if you turn down a bunch of settings and remove a bunch other featu-" how the fuck do you think that is happening on Console then Phoenix? lol Did you just completely disregard that such a thing is also based on what you even have turned on or off?
We Played Some PS5 Games In Glorious 4K At 60 FPS & There's No Turning Back
Goodbye 30fps, hello 60fps.GTA 5's Enhanced Edition Will Run At 4K 60fps On PS5
PlayStation has revealed the enhanced version of GTA 5 will run at 4K 60fps on PS5.Best 4K & 60 FPS PS5 Games
The PlayStation 5 is a powerful console but not every game takes advantage of it. Which titles run at 4K and 60 fps?
So many games already run 4K 60fps on PS5. I'm not sure how anyone would see that as a wild thing that PS5 Pro would have that setting, this is dependent on games...
So
^ This.
And thank you, I don't have a clue why no one was factoring that. This is not a new fucking system, as in PS5 Pro titles from the ground up, its a new sku where the past PS5 titles will all support it, so thsoe games would run higher res, frame etc cause they are not being remade on PS5 Pro to be exclusive from the ground up or anything weird like that.
I just see this no different then how we saw PS4 to PS4 Pro or like you stated, Series S to X.
My point however was, that even a $4K PC can't "guarantee" 4K60 without users having to go in and make those adjustments. And as such, I have no idea why anyone would expect PS5pro to do "native" 4K60. It too would have to make adjustments, and in this case, from what has been leaked already, and also, as per what
DJ12
said about no one "targeting" such hardware, and also the fact that the base PS5 would represent the primary platform; I expect those adjustments (concessions) to be dropping rez to 1440p and reconstructing using PSSR to get 4K. So not native 4K.
winjer
Gold Member
Yes and no… I think.
I am not sure what the network layer was custom or not but they got it re-certified for conformance (I was working at the interop lab when they did that, two colleagues were fired I think because they were taking pics
On the PowerPR front the part was designed for the Dreamcast, I would say it was quite different enough from the parts we eventually got on PC. No infinite planes support, no dedicated 2D acceleration engine, no modifier volumes support, and no HW based OIT (Order Independent Transparency) sorting. Maybe even the tile buffer size was different now that I think of it.
I think the only custom thing about the 7900GT on the Xbox, was the memory bus, that was cutdown.
The graphics in the Dreamcast was a PowerVR series 2, that was used in PC graphics and also arcades.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Granted, I made my statement without context. And I am fully aware that you can run at "native 4K" if you are dialing in the settings to support it.
My point however was, that even a $4K PC can't "guarantee" 4K60 without users having to go in and make those adjustments. And as such, I have no idea why anyone would expect PS5pro to do "native" 4K60. It too would have to make adjustments, and in this case, from what has been leaked already, and also, as per what
"Native" res in the sense that internal render resolution is the same as output resolution is pretty much redundant at this point. HQ upscaling tech makes it way smarter to target lower internally and maximize bandwidth usage for that.
Bojji
Member
Not really. When Xbox 360 launched there was no GPU comparable to it until G80 from Nvidia a year layer, PowerPC 3 core CPU was also nothing like one core x86 CPUs at the time. PS3 had straight up (cut down) 7800GTX but coupled with CPU that was exotic as fuck and XDR RAM. Console before that were even more exotic (minus Xbox "1" mentioned above) and you couldn't compare them with anything on PC.
Since PS4 and X one launch we could easily compare them with PC: 7770 and 7870 GPUs with CPUs that were weaker than the weakest PC CPUs in 2013.
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winjer
Gold Member
Just because the PowerVR chips weren't selling as much on PC as Nvidia, doesn't mean they were not PC graphics.
The choice of graphics chip for the Dreamcast was between 2 PC graphics, Voodoo and PowerVR.
No, I'm not saying that the PS3 has the same amount of PC components as an Xbox or modern consoles, but the GPU was a PC part.
Look at the PS2, and there was no PC parts.
The reality is that little by little, more and more components from PCs became standard in consoles.
Schmendrick
Member
no one is arguing that.
This was about direct system to system comparability with PCs, and that aspect was pretty much nonexistent pre PS4/X1. The overlap of a few parts or even just a part of a part is not the same as what we`ve had since then.
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winjer
Gold Member
Except for the original Xbox.
And the fact remains that consoles using PC parts started long ago, just not as much as with the Xbox, or modern consoles.
Schmendrick
Member
Using some parts or customized parts loosely based on PC components is not the same as being comparable on system level. That is a comparatively "new" thing.
The whole "punching above its weight" thing that old console generations had f.e. is a thing of the past.
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winjer
Gold Member
The customized par in chips like the PowerVR and Geforce 3, was just the memory interface.
It's not hardware loosely based on PC hardware. They were the actual chips.
It's not much different from what the Series X does with it's custom memory interface.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
In short publishers won't spend the extra money giving developers time to optimize for PC unfortunately. They don't give a flying fuck about the PC version of most big AAA third party games on PC. It's been that way forever outside of very specific cases. A good PC port needs a year of a good sized studio as Sony showed with their purchase of Nixxes to port their games to PC. Most of the time if you want 4k/60 on PC you just have to brute force it with a 90 series GPU.
PS5 Pro will give the current PS5 performance modes which struggle (720/900/1080p) much better IQ. I very much doubt it takes even GPU bound games from 30fps to 60fps but I hope I'm wrong because despite just dropping 2.5 grand on a PC myself I just prefer consoles probably because I grew up with them instead of PC. My brain just associates PC's with work it sucks.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
"To the metal" performance gains are still very much a thing in console development because of the console specific API's and the "one board" (not multiple boards that fit together) nature of a console getting better performance out of equivalent PC hardware. See a ton of current gen games that don't have micro stutter on "weak" consoles yet do on 4090 PC's as an example.
Mark Cerny:
Consoles are not simply "PC parts." They are partially designed with the technological foundation used in PCs and other systems, which is a completely different story.
They are custom hardware units that could have or not some similarities whit PC components in some ways but you can't make a 1:1 comparison.
Consoles are not simply "PC parts." They are partially designed with the technological foundation used in PCs and other systems, which is a completely different story.
They are custom hardware units that could have or not some similarities whit PC components in some ways but you can't make a 1:1 comparison.
Zathalus
Member
Stutter has got nothing to do with to the metal, developers are able to supply compiled shaders with console games because the console hardware is identical, which obviously isn’t the case for PC. There shaders have to be compiled at runtime which leads to the stutters. Precompiling shaders on PC fixes this, which luckily most developers are starting to do.
The lower level API of PlayStation does still have performance benefits compared to PC but these benefits are quite a bit smaller then they used to be thanks to the newer APIs on PC as well.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
MrTired
Member
The software tie rate for the PS4 was just over 10 over those 7 years. Which means the average is just over 1 game bought a year. With F2P & Game catalogue subscription service that number will probably decrease. But yes you as a user is worth even more than you thought.
Stutter could happen not only from shader compilation. Could be caused also by data streaming, CPU bottleneck, memory limitations...
The low level API from PlayStation have a significant advantage of hardware control over DirectX on PC and Xbox Series consoles, the problem is that to take advantage of it you have to know very well what you are doing, it needs more time and making some specific funtions on there could compromise the replica on other APIs. Thats why most devs choose to develop on GNMX.
Imtjnotu
Member
I identify as a dolphin but I like tech. I don't care what sector it's in. Anything new already has my attention.The Pro user "whales" might also be inclined to go for the premium accessories, which PlayStation has this gen for the first time. DualSense Edge, Portal, Pulse Elite and Explores, PSVR2... Sony must be making a killing off all those. I own all of em too, except the Elites only cause I have the Inzone H7, heh
I'm a
Not a rich one, but one nonetheless to them
From my drones to cameras to headphones to gaming.. All of it is my vice
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I believe it was also borrowing the twin Vertex Shaders setup that was what nVIDIA would launch in the next GPU generation (Kelvin).
I know, but the PC version never had any of the features I mentioned (and had a dedicated 2D HW engine which the Dreamcast CLX2 chip did not have):
- HW accelerated OIT sorting
- Modifier Volumes
- 32x32 pixels tile buffers
- Infinite planes
- etc…
One of the engineers behind it, Simon F, talked about it on Beyond3D too.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
As its stands... nothing is being optimized for anymore.
Unless someone wants to tell me how stuff like Jedi order or even elden ring perform the way they do. Devs are just using all that extra grunt every piece of hardware has now to brute force poorly optimized code.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
But that’s the beauty of mid console refresh and magic sauce. Look how the series x handled up scaling 360 games to HD they let the hardware do the uplifting. Who’s to say that Sony isn’t going to do this where developers can opt in and patch their games to support all the features, or Sonys console can brute force up scaling or frame generation into all current games? We just don’t know honestly.
What’s great about a console is a known spec whereas on pc we have numerous factors for ports. Consoles are also much closer to the metal than PC when it comes to taking advantage of all the GPU etc…
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
....ok,
Dorfdad
's comment never suggest PS5 Pro will do 4K 60 fps, zero adjustments, everything on high etc If you an understand the statements you've said about them "adjustments" I'm 99.9% sure you can understand PS5 does 4K60 and PS5 Pro will do 4K 60 as well.
I'm not understanding where the confusing is regarding this when your very response supports how such a thing might be done, I mean its you who is even saying this about those adjustments as if that was ever Dorfdad's point or something.
Here is his original statement.
He never actually makes any statements that would suggest he is under the assumption that 4K60 native would be like PC games, all settings maxed, RT on or anything weird like that lol So because you already have 4k60 games on PS5, i'm not sure why one would doubt this on PS5 Pro
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Drop it, it is not that serious. He wasn't serious... and neither was I.....ok,
If you an understand the statements you've said about them "adjustments" I'm 99.9% sure you can understand PS5 does 4K60 and PS5 Pro will do 4K 60 as well.
I'm not understanding where the confusing is regarding this when your very response supports how such a thing might be done, I mean its you who is even saying this about those adjustments as if that was ever Dorfdad's point or something.
Here is his original statement.
He never actually makes any statements that would suggest he is under the assumption that 4K60 native would be like PC games, all settings maxed, RT on or anything weird like that lol So because you already have 4k60 games on PS5, i'm not sure why one would doubt this on PS5 Pro
He didn't say 4K@60@max settings. He didn't not say it either. So that means it literally can be open to interpretation.
Either way, the whole basis of my point is that it wont be native 4K even if its 4K@60fps. And again... its not that serious.
But if we are to be being serious... you really believe the PS5pro will be having games running at 4K native at 60fps with any combination of settings? When everything that has leaked so far, and everything we have seen so far of the PS5... should tell you otherwise. Native resolution... are dead. Thats why the PS5 is putting in hardware AI units for crying out loud.
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
Got PS4 on day one followed by PS4 Pro as well, can't wait to get PS5 Pro day one!
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Sony is literally incentivizing developers to NOT chase native 4k by requiring the target output resolution to be achieved via PSSR it's a requirement for PS5 Pro graphics mode label.
You're right, native pixel rendering is dead. Good riddance.
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
It's your money to burn so go for it. Just giving my thoughts and by the way the decade isn't half over yet before you get too cocky. Sony Has been anti consumer recently and the hits have dried up.Ah, yes, clearly your tag describes perfectly your beacon of accuracy, illuminating the path to flawless foresight.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
You are correct, yet your response seems to assume that is what they are talking about.
I'm happy we've established that and should give it a rest. =)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
a video said it was because they did not have games to go with it bs they had spiderman2 this year they have astro but he is not as big as spiderman.
bitbydeath
Member
Don’t forget this.
Epic Games had to rewrite parts of Unreal Engine to keep up with the PS5's SSD
The SSD inside every PS5 is going to be transformative for game development, and the maker of Unreal Engine has seen it firsthand.
www.vg247.com
PS5 wasn’t without its wacky customisations either.
Vroadstar
Member
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Upcoming DF Direct indirectly touched on the topic of "low level API" significance and "to the metal" coding that was a point of contention just earlier this week. One of the supporter questions asked why Series X underperforms in comparison with PS5 despite the supposed hardware advantages. DF did what we've been asking them to do and posed the question to developers. Per John:
1. PS5 compilers are "extremely faster and optimized" compared to Xbox and "makes better use of the silicon that allows for speedier performance"
2. PS5 API (GNMX) is "faster than Xbox/DirectX".
This isn't necessarily news to most of us but again there are some in this thread who have been arguing that "to the metal" optimizations were a thing of the past. This is categorically false. I also think this insight has direct ramifications on prospective PS5 Pro performance, specifically as it relates to the usage of dual issue compute. As I said a few times in this forum/thread, it wouldn't be wise to scoff at the 33TF figure as PS developer environment will likely allow the console to run a number of games as you would expect a 33TF machine to perform.
1. PS5 compilers are "extremely faster and optimized" compared to Xbox and "makes better use of the silicon that allows for speedier performance"
2. PS5 API (GNMX) is "faster than Xbox/DirectX".
This isn't necessarily news to most of us but again there are some in this thread who have been arguing that "to the metal" optimizations were a thing of the past. This is categorically false. I also think this insight has direct ramifications on prospective PS5 Pro performance, specifically as it relates to the usage of dual issue compute. As I said a few times in this forum/thread, it wouldn't be wise to scoff at the 33TF figure as PS developer environment will likely allow the console to run a number of games as you would expect a 33TF machine to perform.