PeteBull
Member
Many of us do, raster is basis for everything elseThe point of PS5 Pro IS raytracing and AI capabilities (PSSR)
Who cares about raster?
Many of us do, raster is basis for everything elseThe point of PS5 Pro IS raytracing and AI capabilities (PSSR)
Who cares about raster?
Many of us do, raster is basis for everything else
Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.So much wrong here... where does one even start.
4090 and Switch? I am not even gonna bother with this one...
Guess what though, The PS5pro sales pitch will ALSO be get this if you want the best-looking games on your 4K TV. Powered by AI. I am sure the nomies will know what AI is... you know, that thing that everyone and their toaster is now claiming to have.
I’m just pointing out that if you want to know what the Pro will perform like in regular rasterization the 7800XT is a good reference point. Plus rasterization performance is still going to be pretty important for a very long time.The point of PS5 Pro IS raytracing and AI capabilities (PSSR)
Who cares about raster?
It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.if people have this much excitement, they should just buy a low to mid spec PC today!
I’m just pointing out that if you want to know what the Pro will perform like in regular rasterization the 7800XT is a good reference point. Plus rasterization performance is still going to be pretty important for a very long time.
It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.
I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..
There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying
Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.
I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..
There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying
What the hell are you talking about?Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.
In general…
Console gaming
Sat on the sofa
Play on a big tv (usually in the main room)
Just plug and play - very few settings to mess around with
No upgradable parts - just a console
Using a controller
PC gaming
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Play on a small monitor
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Using a mouse and keyboard
I have absolutely no interest in PC gaming. I like the simplicity of console gaming. The two are very different.
Question is, is PSSR system level? Or game by game basis.
You need to consider that back in the PS4 Pro / XOne X days, the biggest selling point of those new machines was "4K" resolution, but in order to take advantage of such features you were required to have a 4K display. So the appeal of an enhanced console last-gen was limited by the fact that they both arrived in the early days of mainstream 4K adoption.Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.
The problem with pure raster is that you need insane amounts of it to improve the resolution. And that’s not possible anymore with Moore’s law dead and buried. So it’s better to have a combination of better raster and IA upscaling to keep on climbing the graphical fidelity. nVidia lead the way with that but his implementation is not universal and their prices are a violation of thirteen articles of the Genova Convention. In the end you have what you’d get with raster if RAM and power hasn’t stagnated over the last decade and half, but with other ways of achieving it.Many of us do, raster is basis for everything else
Question is, is PSSR system level? Or game by game basis.
Obviously but still, even what we get, the gpu power increase vs base ps5, will be upmost welcome, all those games staying below 1080p in 60fps modes hopefully will be thing of the pastThe problem with pure raster is that you need insane amounts of it to improve the resolution. And that’s not possible anymore with Moore’s law dead and buried. So it’s better to have a combination of better raster and IA upscaling yo keep on climbing the graphical fidelity. nVidia lead the way with that but his implementation is not universal and their prices are a violation of thirteen articles of the Genova Convention. In the end you have what you’d get with raster if RAM and power hasn’t stagnated over the last decade and half, but with other ways of achieving it.
Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.You need to consider that back in the PS4 Pro / XOne X days, the biggest selling point of those new machines was "4K" resolution, but in order to take advantage of such features you were required to have a 4K display. So the appeal of an enhanced console last-gen was limited by the fact that they both arrived in the early days of mainstream 4K adoption.
This time around, not only 4K displays already have a massive and still growing install base, but the benefits of a PS5 Pro would be clear as day even without a 4K display, for instance, the moment you see Horizon: Forbidden West with RTGI in an "RTX On" style video, that's gonna be all the marketing the PS5 Pro would need. Higher quality image reconstruction and performance options through PSSR would be the icing on top of the cake.
Personally, this seems like a much more complete and appealing package than what the PS4 Pro offered back in 2016.
I have my Collector’s Edition of Rebirth with the seal still intact waiting for the Pro patch.Obviously but still, even what we get, the gpu power increase vs base ps5, will be upmost welcome, all those games staying below 1080p in 60fps modes hopefully will be thing of the past
It’s because we are a bunch of wackos that I like you all.Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.
I’ve said this a number of times but go on any “what pc do you have” polls here on NeoGAF and compare it to the steam hardware surveys. Same thing.
2000 grand. Enough to buy a nice little runabout. But no..would rather spend it on a fuckin graphics card and some monster munch/mountain dew.Lol yeah what else could possibly be the difference between a Switch and a 4090....???
Oh yeah, about $2000.
He's just saying he couldn't give a fuck about pc gaming. Alot of console folk feel the same way. I know I do. Pop TV on. Change hdmi. Ps5 comes on. Away you go. Simplicity, with a massive TV and surround sound. Happy days.What the hell are you talking about?
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Neither of these are necessary. You can just as easily sit on a couch.
Play on a small monitor
Why? Get a big monitor. Or a tv.
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Lmao. There's no game in existence with hundreds of settings. If changing a few settings boggles your mind then just use a preset. Lots of games will even auto detect your hardware and do settings for you.
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Most can but how is this a downside? Here's some more news. You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.
Using a mouse and keyboard
Most games have native controller support. No mouse and keyboard to confuse you.
I would argue for sony themselfs keeping those 15% hardcore audiance is extremly important.Selling a “4K console” at the same time people are upgrading to 4K TVs is actually great timing (it’s when I got mine). But, you said personally. I am sure it is appealing to you personally. It is for me. But this is my point. Most people do not care. The RTX On/RTX Off shit is for people who spend $700+ on a GPU. They’re not normal people. People say “ahh that looks great, how much do I need to get that? Oh? I’m good I’ll just spend that money on Madden UT packs.” PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this.
I’ve said this a number of times but go on any “what pc do you have” polls here on NeoGAF and compare it to the steam hardware surveys. Same thing.
Regarding the PlayStation 4 Pro, he suggested the Xbox wasn’t even being considered its main competition. Rather, it was the PC. “I saw some data that really influenced me,” he said. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”
Dual issue pipeline. In just like RDNA3, turning, you get double the raw power, but is only usable under specific circumstances. In real world this leads to 5-20% better performance (highly use-case specific) but only for a bit more DIE space.Why you dividing by 2? That 33.5 is the FP32 TFlops.
If the PS4 Pro didn't meet Sony's sales expectations, do you really think they'd be bothering with a PS5 Pro?Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.
I agree, it’s an audience they want to keep. I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro.I would argue for sony themselfs keeping those 15% hardcore audiance is extremly important.
They dont gain much from casual who buys 1-2games yearly(usually not even at launch but used/discounted) but a hardcore guy(like many here on gaf) who buys 15-20 games yearly(and most of them at launch, for full 70$/€) is worth retaining, sony doesnt want us to go primary pc, thats the reason ps5pr0 exist
Lets just look what very prominent ps executive Andrew House mentioned in that interview https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around
I never said it didn’t meet their sales expectations.If the PS4 Pro didn't meet Sony's sales expectations, do you really think they'd be bothering with a PS5 Pro?
You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.I agree, it’s an audience they want to keep. I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro.
I never said it didn’t meet their sales expectations.
No, what I said was in the context of this being more popular than PS4 Pro.You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.
Only if sony start to taking their first party titles out of their ass.. this launch strategy will be interesting... because right now they have fucking nothing to justify it.
AgreedNonsense. Forget about future 1st party games like Astrobot and GoT2 which of course will be supported with Pro in mind. Returnal, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, GT7, Ratchet; I will do a full rerun of all these games if they have the new PS5 Pro Graphics mode patched in (which they likely will). Not to mention plenty of previously released 3rd party games with RT, poor image quality, or both will benefit greatly. Oh and that little indie game GTA VI might move the needle a bit too I'll say this again - PS5 Pro will be more successful than PS4 Pro.
Indeed, look at that beauty:Agreed
The GTA VI factor alone will be massive as it will be BY FAR the best place to play the game at launch
And I would argue that image quality upgrades are more evident than higher resolution at this point...
You're trying to hard (don't worry, i didn't do this manually)No, what I said was in the context of this being more popular than PS4 Pro.
lmao that last quote was a jokeYou're trying to hard (don't worry, i didn't do this manually)
- June 24, 2024: "PS5 Pro is not for normal people. It’s a niche device. 10-15% of units is likely the limit and I am sure Sony knows this."
- June 24, 2024: "I just think it’s a harder sell than the already hard sell of PS4 Pro."
- June 24, 2024: "The idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly."
- June 24, 2024: "I would expect a lower number from PS5 Pro, honestly. I don’t think this one has the selling point that the PS4 Pro did."
- June 23, 2024: "Series S runs UE5 games better than PS5 and will also on PS5 Pro."
Nowhere they say they have input from developers, that's from Sony and the document was intended for developers, not customers. DF are going to focus on Tflops improvements and traditionnal rendering improvements (45% from Sony themselves) which is comparable to 7800 GPUs. It was expected as Tflops do not scale linearly because of modest bandwidth improvements. But you need to forget about Tflops for PS5 Pro generation. Do you talk about Tflops and native resolution when talking about Nvidia GPUs? Nonsense.So devs who got devkits are saying exactly what DF is saying and u telling me sony somehow gets apu that is much more advanced? Why would devs get much weaker devkits then? Silicon for ps5pr0 is already set in stone, for months, we wont get better one.
No point to deceive urself/have balooned expectations, otherwise u will end up like those guys who wanted base ps5 to be 13tflop mashine after series X turned out to be 12tflops.
Edit:
Here written article, maybe thats easier to comprehend
Spec Analysis: PlayStation 5 Pro - the most powerful console yet
Tech specs for PlayStation 5 Pro have leaked - Digital Foundry verifies them and delivers analysis and further information.www.eurogamer.net
They made a PSVR2You said it "didn't move the needle." That would imply it was a failure. If it was a failure, they wouldn't do it again.
It's a typical response from some PC aficionado's. They think the build or buy a PC is the answer for everybody and everyone. Not everyone wants a PC or the hassle of using one.It always amazes me that people have this kind of comment to people who like consoles. Some of us prefer the simplicity of a console. It’s 100% plug-in play most of us that are older have jobs families and other commitments consuls offer us the ability to just sit down and game without tweaking without system level, patching without driver troubleshooting, and the ability to pick it up and move it around or take it to a friends house. do that with some PCs it’s not as easy or convenient.
I have a high and gaming PC as well as consuls and after a long, hard days work sitting in front of a desk again for hours isnt always what I wanna do. I play games on console as much as possible, but there are certain genres and games that are just PC centric..
There were just so many reasons people would like a consul instead of a PC so whenever I see individuals stating just get a PC it’s annoying
Yeah. Just tell em to fuck off. Politely of course.It's a typical response from some PC aficionado's. They think the build or buy a PC is the answer for everybody and everyone. Not everyone wants a PC or the hassle of using one.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7800-xt.c3839 use this graph, its very accurate and got all the gpus, hell u got data for console gpus too.Nowhere they say they have input from developers, that's from Sony and the document was intended for developers, not customers. DF are going to focus on Tflops improvements and traditionnal rendering improvements (45% from Sony themselves) which is comparable to 7800 GPUs. It was expected as Tflops do not scale linearly because of modest bandwidth improvements. But you need to forget about Tflops for PS5 Pro generation. Do you talk about Tflops and native resolution when talking about Nvidia GPUs? Nonsense.
With AI upscaling you won't need resolution improvements and with improved RT the final IQ will be much better.
Patience!
WHERE ARE THE NEW LEAKS
well they cut the ps4pro off and just have the slim now i still think not keeping the ps4 pro in stock was dumb.Kind of funny to still see ps4 pro going for over $300 at retail.
this.I expect the PS5pro to sell better than the PS4pro did. I don't know why people are so fixated on the resolution thing, The PS5pro doesn't need some sort of resolution sticker to sell well. It just has to be the best console hardware on the market or the best way to experience any console game. That will be enough. Especially if you need to spend over $1000 to get an equivalent PC.
more 60 fps games.How is Sony going to market this as a reason to upgrade? PS4 pro had higher resolution support. What’s the big selling point to sell this to people?
Again... so much wrong here.Trying to discuss this with videogame forum posters is like trying to discuss water with a fish... they just dont get it. We have 40 years of evidence that says graphics tech is at best the 3rd most important consideration for buying a console, behind games and price. it just doesnt move the needle. The most direct evidence of this is well, the PS4 Pro/One X, where Sony and MS went to customers and said, "yea pay $100 more and get a way more powerful machine" and 80% of people (if not more) were like, "nah I'm good". The idea that Sony going to customers and saying, "yea pay $100 more and you can get pretty bad ray tracing that is nonetheless better than the base machine's abhorrent capabilities, and a higher base resolution before upscale compared to the current system's base resolution before upscale", and, well, it's a tough sell.
Now, videogame forum posters care, videogame forum posters also spend $1000+ on a GPU in a way, graphics power matters so they spend money on it, and complain all day about the base resolution on PS5 games. So that's fine, but the idea that this will be anything more than ultra-niche is silly. Videogame forum posters have been begging Nintendo for a Switch 2/Pro for years while the system has sold what, 40 million units.
Indeed, look at that beauty:
Almost 197m views by now, u can be sure game gonna sell 50m copies in its first year, and guess what- with no pc version most of those copies gonna be on playstation.
Question is will we- as core players, wanna play gimped version on base console(or godforbid series S which will likely be under 1080p with some dips under 30fps) or we fork out those few hundo bucks for the pr0 and enjoy full fat experience, its rhetorical question ofc
if people have this much excitement, they should just buy a low to mid spec PC today!
Exactly. Time and time again I see people saying things like “well just get a PC instead”. Completely ignoring the fact that console and PC gaming are completely different. It’s so strange - and I’m seeing it more and more often.
In general…
Console gaming
Sat on the sofa
Play on a big tv (usually in the main room)
Just plug and play - very few settings to mess around with
No upgradable parts - just a console
Using a controller
PC gaming
Sat in a gaming chair at a desk
Play on a small monitor
Hundreds of settings and setup changes for every game
Every PC can be upgraded with different parts
Using a mouse and keyboard
I have absolutely no interest in PC gaming. I like the simplicity of console gaming. The two are very different.
2000 grand. Enough to buy a nice little runabout. But no..would rather spend it on a fuckin graphics card and some monster munch/mountain dew.
Yeah, I saw a youtube video a week ago mentioning their PS2 emulator, and it showed Sly Cooper. So far it looks like they've only gotten to about 30+ games, and they're not offering frame-rate improvements, but it's still great it's happening at all (with upscaling).? You can download them (also PSP).
Sly Cooper™ and the Thievius Raccoonus
Master the art of thieving, outsmart foes, and reclaim the family legacystore.playstation.comApe Escape: On the Loose
Hunt down cheeky chimps as they run wild in the Professors stolen time machinestore.playstation.com
600$ for ps5pr0 is great price, doubt sony gonna charge more but knowing what it has under the hood that would be fair imoJust asking for science but how much would you actually fork over to play it at even a fuller fatter ultimate console like experience?
Same with me I have really no limit so let me follow up600$ for ps5pr0 is great price, doubt sony gonna charge more but knowing what it has under the hood that would be fair imo
Edit: Im crazy guy who bought 3080ti in the middle of crypto boom for 2,2k euro, so personally got no limit hahaha ;D
Same with me I have really no limit so let me follow up
Could another platform tempt you away from the PS5 Pro for around $1000 for the best experience for GTA?