TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I'm curious, too.
For all we know, it has eight Cell BEs
PSM: PS4 specs more powerful than Xbox 720
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I'm curious, too.
For all we know, it has eight Cell BEs
badcrumble
Member
A silly statement. Cell has been the PS3's single saving grace, considering the terrible GPU it got hobbled with.
bigtroyjon
Member
worst part about this thread is that it took until post 390 for a hardcore Sony fanboy to start posting screenshots. I guess this gen must have been hard on them, 4 years ago we would have seen pictures or gifs in the first 20 posts.
Can't wait until next gen starts when the pics are free flowing again.
Can't wait until next gen starts when the pics are free flowing again.
The power argument will depend on MS's move to keep the hardcore in plan or not. If they do, obviously PS4 will be more powerful. If not, I think they'll both be extremely close like PS360. After all, they'll probably buy parts from the same providers with around the same budget concerns.
And no, Ninty going soft on specs is not a tradition. They've only been doing that since the DS and Wii. They seem to keep that mentality with 3DS and Wii u, but it is certainly NOT what Ninty used to do.
Here is what I want from next gen with-in reason:
no more or sharp corners on round objects (wheels, heads, etc.).
DARKER TEXTURES for added realism: why are 'realistic' looking games till today have VERY bright colors? tone the rainbow/Disney effect down a little. I am hoping BF4 will have textures that resemble real life in the color shade department. It really, really works wonders if you can do that.
And no, Ninty going soft on specs is not a tradition. They've only been doing that since the DS and Wii. They seem to keep that mentality with 3DS and Wii u, but it is certainly NOT what Ninty used to do.
Here is what I want from next gen with-in reason:
no more or sharp corners on round objects (wheels, heads, etc.).
DARKER TEXTURES for added realism: why are 'realistic' looking games till today have VERY bright colors? tone the rainbow/Disney effect down a little. I am hoping BF4 will have textures that resemble real life in the color shade department. It really, really works wonders if you can do that.
Sorc3r3r
Member
If even in this generation the vast majority of games were almost identical, in the next one the graphics differences of games will be even less noticeable, so the spec-cock-waving is a fools game to me.
Me thinks that the most important thing will be on the online services, from e-stores to social sites integration and whatever MS and Sony are planning to add.
Price will be even more crucial, if 599 has almost killed the ps3 this time a 599 will kill the whole company.
And games, games, games, software sells hardware, will be interessing to see who is getting right between MS or Sony that from this point of view have a diverging policy.
Note, I hope that the motion controls will cross the river in a way or in the other, so, or a full and universal integration in all games or just let them die in the oblivion.
Me thinks that the most important thing will be on the online services, from e-stores to social sites integration and whatever MS and Sony are planning to add.
Price will be even more crucial, if 599 has almost killed the ps3 this time a 599 will kill the whole company.
And games, games, games, software sells hardware, will be interessing to see who is getting right between MS or Sony that from this point of view have a diverging policy.
Note, I hope that the motion controls will cross the river in a way or in the other, so, or a full and universal integration in all games or just let them die in the oblivion.
specialguy
Banned
Technically the odds arent very good on this.
PS2: one year earlier than Xbox, way less powerful
PS3: one year later than 360, about the same powerful.
Yeah...
They'll be on the same process node, which didn't even matter with a year difference last time (both were on 90nm). The only easy edge I can see one gaining is if one doubles the others RAM (2GB vs 4GB). Even then it's complicated.
If Sony tries to shoot for 22nm while MS is on 28 or something, it will be too risky. Or if MS makes 22nm, they'd have to wait like 3 years for 14nm...and be too far behind.
Mind you I'm not even convinced MS will launch first. There's zero real evidence of that at this juncture.
Edit: did some googling, the first 40nm GPU was apparantly in April 2009 http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1051942/ati-hd-4770-40nm-gpu
We just (are about to) got the first 28nm in early 2012 Almost a 3 year spread. Yeah...lets say it will be the same 28 to 20. You'd look at early 2015/late 2014. That would be on the bleeding edge with scary risk of product slippage if anything goes wrong. Dont see it.
PS2: one year earlier than Xbox, way less powerful
PS3: one year later than 360, about the same powerful.
Yeah...
They'll be on the same process node, which didn't even matter with a year difference last time (both were on 90nm). The only easy edge I can see one gaining is if one doubles the others RAM (2GB vs 4GB). Even then it's complicated.
If Sony tries to shoot for 22nm while MS is on 28 or something, it will be too risky. Or if MS makes 22nm, they'd have to wait like 3 years for 14nm...and be too far behind.
Mind you I'm not even convinced MS will launch first. There's zero real evidence of that at this juncture.
Edit: did some googling, the first 40nm GPU was apparantly in April 2009 http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1051942/ati-hd-4770-40nm-gpu
We just (are about to) got the first 28nm in early 2012 Almost a 3 year spread. Yeah...lets say it will be the same 28 to 20. You'd look at early 2015/late 2014. That would be on the bleeding edge with scary risk of product slippage if anything goes wrong. Dont see it.
Phonomezer
Banned
Yes, I'm sure Playstation Magazine have sat down and spent a lot of time with the creators of both machines to discuss how powerful they are. Perhaps even tried a few demos.
Thought we left this shit behind us by now.
Thought we left this shit behind us by now.
joshwaan
Member
i hope both sony and microsoft go hardcore feeling that microsoft will go for a slight upgrade and sony will go all out.
Yeah i agree with ya on better textures and colour tones will make games a lot more gritty and real =)
i hope both have a minimum on 2gb memory and they should e3 is going to be interesting to say the least
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
What mistake exactly?
Making a console
iceatcs
Junior Member
You mean sell at a loss?
It's also on PS2 too at the launch term but Sony make mistake is the Blu-ray laser is not ready for marketable pricing and cost about 40% of PS3.
I don't think Sony will hijack the new technology on their system again.
ArachosiA 78
Member
Wait, so they won't be exactly equal in performance?
Phonomezer
Banned
Nobody knows. They haven't even been announced yet.
Wrong. The Cell is a powerful mess that's quite ineffective for gaming. The calculations Cell is designed for are done much more effectively on GPGPUs which launched the same month as the PS3. It was a huge, expensive chip and it took years for developers to use it right. Even now it isn't that far ahead of Xenon (Cell does about twice its peak performance) and a more modern architecture would destroy it.
If there's going to be a Cell in the PS4 it will be for BC. It most certainly won't be its primary CPU.
Always-honest
Banned
Can't wait for E3
you programming expert? No, ok move on.
I wouldn't put too much weight behind this. Not because it's necessarily unbelievable, but because it likely has no foundation other than PSM3's desire to have 'PS4 EXCLUSIVE!!!!1' front cover. Unless I'm confusing PSM3 with another mag...
And even if it were with foundation, a real developer's thoughts, in the absence of info about the systems it's not necessarily very informative. You could have two systems that overall are quite similarly powerful, but that in certain use cases have different strengths and weaknesses - meaning different devs might have different experiences about which was 'a bit more powerful'. You'd really need more info and more than one dev's input to try and come to a more general position.
There's another important variable other than time - budget for the relevant components, the processing guts. Which would be driven by various other variables - the target price of the machine, the appetite for per unit loss or profit, the philosophy behind the machine (and thus, how much of the budget processing guts get vs other things) etc.
Anyway, we're talking in the dark for now.
And even if it were with foundation, a real developer's thoughts, in the absence of info about the systems it's not necessarily very informative. You could have two systems that overall are quite similarly powerful, but that in certain use cases have different strengths and weaknesses - meaning different devs might have different experiences about which was 'a bit more powerful'. You'd really need more info and more than one dev's input to try and come to a more general position.
There's another important variable other than time - budget for the relevant components, the processing guts. Which would be driven by various other variables - the target price of the machine, the appetite for per unit loss or profit, the philosophy behind the machine (and thus, how much of the budget processing guts get vs other things) etc.
Anyway, we're talking in the dark for now.
last few E3s were MEH, mostly because motion stuff takes so much space that it is just boring to me. Prior to Kinect aka Natal MS had best paced conferences. I will never forget the one where they showed Gears2, RE5, Fallout 3, I think Fable 2 plus few other games. All on same press conference one after another it was wicked
not only that, but specs are not final, things can change.
Phonomezer
Banned
Prepare yourself for the nextgeneration version of this:
Cant fricking wait. This screenshot created suc an epic shitstorm here @ gaf.
Development sources? It's right there in this very sentence.
unless one sells significantly better than other, does it really matter if there is slight difference in processing power?
And if there is huge difference in power, then there will be huge difference in price as well, and guess who won that war last time around (Wii).
So somehow they would have to make it a lot more powerful and sell a lot more and then devs would use that extra power in their 3rd party games.
And if there is huge difference in power, then there will be huge difference in price as well, and guess who won that war last time around (Wii).
So somehow they would have to make it a lot more powerful and sell a lot more and then devs would use that extra power in their 3rd party games.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Remember the 2005 hype for the 360 & PS3, both companies were more than happy to be shouting about the internal specs and system performance...
If in 2012, both Sony and Microsoft do a Nintendo @ E3, and don't talk about internal hardware specs, then that will be the surest sign possible, that were not getting a massive leap in performance.
If in 2012, both Sony and Microsoft do a Nintendo @ E3, and don't talk about internal hardware specs, then that will be the surest sign possible, that were not getting a massive leap in performance.
Kenshin001
Member
That's a good point. Processing power has been largely irrelevant. PS2 destroyed the Xbox and Wii outsold both the HD twins. Average Joe couldn't care less. Sony getting their machine out around the same time and price as Xbox Next will have more impact on what unfolds next generation and any power advantage will only benefit Sony's first party studios.
maniac-kun
Member
So Nintendo wins?
Nope, this carnival of stupid always starts once a new generation is about to start. Part of the fun for me. Always great to laugh at all the stupid shit that gets written.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
At least in Microsoft's case, 2005 was their 2013 (presuming that's when the console will launch). They started talking about next gen development at the start of 2004 (the first tech demos were shown at GDC 2004), but only much later did we get the detailed specs.
It's not really dangerous to be too far ahead vs too far behind. In the latter case you run the risk of being locked out from multiplatform development (ala Wii)...but in the former case you'll still get the games, but 'just' that third parties won't necessarily do too much to take specific advantage of your platform (depending on audience share anyway).
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Friendly dev, online service, price, orig content IMO.
Why? Friendly to develop for = better games = more sales, better online = more draw, price = people will buy it if the first things are good and will find it fair. Original content is the least of peoples worries nowadays.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Agreed completely, unless the difference in price is more than $100 (and as long as the actual price is within reason - $400 tops). Original content will be more important at the start of the generation, but that will fade as time goes on.
Those "development sources" will only use 50.458 percent of the PS4´s power in their first release for sure
No man they will totally use the power of the PS4 to their fullest. Until 2 years later they find some more power.
Well too far ahead can imply too expensive and too big....
As if it even fucking matters at this point. The best of the PS3 library looks better than 360 games, it makes no difference in performance of the platform. Multiplatform games are what matter, and they're best on whatever they lead on, which is whatever is more popular, which is whatever is cheapest. Making it more powerful just means making it cost more, and sell less.
Shtof
Member
Speculation is the new information!
And till the end they will cite that there is still a lot of untapped power in the machine... 'we learn more every day', and depending if they have a 'current gen' or 'next gen' project in the works they say 'there is still plenty of room left in the console' or 'we can't wait to make the jump to the next gen and innovate'
Well, I'm assuming the audience share is there. I'm saying that technically there's no barrier to sharing content with a system if it's 'too far ahead' in the same way as there is if a system is too far behind. Obviously if being too far ahead has economic impacts and thus audience share impact, then there may be non-technical barriers to a platform sharing third party content. But I think Ubermatik was talking about being left out to dry in a technical sense.
Blue Ninja
Member
Power doesn't matter if the console's a bitch to develop for, Sony.
Haha, yeah exactly. This stuff is always so silly.
It's easier to program for the 360, not just cheaper.
nelsonroyale
Member
I just completed U3....I can barely imagine what sort of visuals ND will be able to output on PS4...The view of over the settlement and the CIty of Brass were flat out the best looking visuals I have seen this gen on any system....incredible
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