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[Brad Grenz]

We should do this every generation! You know, add the 2nd and 3rd place sellers to see if they add up to the one that sold the most. What a relevant metric there.

No one was talking about who sold the most. Someone claimed the home console market had overwhelming chosen SD over HD and cited the Wii as proof. But simple math shows us that the total market for HD gaming was actually larger, disproving that claim. This is an incontrovertible fact. I can't imagine what your ongoing protestations are supposed to accomplish.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Actually guys SD still owned this past generation.

150 million + DS, 90 million + Wii, 61 million PSP.

300 million + is more than 130 million right?

So the vast majority of gaming is still SD.

You don't even need to go into handhelds; just don't ignore the 50 millionish PS2s sold since PS3 launched.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You don't even need to go into handhelds; just don't ignore the 50 millionish PS2s sold since PS3 launched.

With that tidbit I'd say my case rests.

Next gen might change it, but as of right now SD and lower resolutions are the kings of the industry.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You don't even need to go into handhelds; just don't ignore the 50 millionish PS2s sold since PS3 launched.

Bingo.

 

[jeff_rigby]

You don't even need to go into handhelds; just don't ignore the 50 millionish PS2s sold since PS3 launched.

You do know the PS2 could do 1080i.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You do know the PS2 could do 1080i.

What does this have todo with anything.

 

[OddSpoon]

What does this have todo with anything.

What did the DS sales have to do with anything.

 

[StuBurns]

You can't count handhelds. While we say 'HD', the only thing that actually matters is pixel density which is dependant on the display medium, the handhelds aren't really viable for comparison.

 

[davepoobond]

You can't count handhelds. While we say 'HD', the only thing that actually matters is pixel density which is dependant on the display medium, the handhelds aren't really viable for comparison.

i dont know what you mean.

HD gaming is obviously a disruptive type of gaming in the console gamespace. for 30+ years its been NTSC or PAL.

More resolution means you need better tech to output, meaning more processor intensive, meaning more power, meaning more everything than has ever been developed before. Handhelds are now able to output the same pixel density because they are now powerful enough to do so.

its like you're implying HD resolutions were easily doable with a gameboy.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So this got me curious about how the SD/HD shift really has been going taking PS2 into account. Here's how the quarterly shipments have gone, starting with the quarter of PS3/Wii launch. Looks like the big switch happened in the last half of 2010.

GameCube and Brazilian Master System not included.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Being that Sony hasn't said how much more powerful PS4 would be over Nextbox, I figured I'd ask around here. There are a lot of reasons for me to lean toward thinking it could be significantly more powerful, but I'm not as up to date with the technology as a lot of people around here are.

I'll start off with the CPU. A quick google search on the web seems to indicate that PS4 will use a modified cell cpu with 16 SPUs that's 2x as fast as the PS3 cpu.

Sources:
http://smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Industry/F5C6F8A6?page=1
http://n4g.com/news/870768/the-cell-processor-2-is-in-development-and-go-for-playstation-4
http://*************************/2011/10/22/ps4s-new-cell-chip-2-may-already-be-mid-development/

With that being the case, we can safely assume Blu-Ray will be used again so the next big hurdles are memory and the GPU - both were problems for PS3.

For RAM I'm not sure what specifically the problems were other than more was needed. Would more of the same type of ram put into PS3 be enough or does it need to be faster as well.

GPU - With everything else considered, theoretically Sony could put a much nicer GPU in PS4 than what will be in Wii U/Nextbox.

Lastly, given the power of Vita I think it's pretty clear that Sony hasn't abandoned the pursuit of powerful graphics. In fact, I think comparing it to 3DS may be a good indication of how PS4 will compare to it's competitors. I don't want to get my hopes up, but it seems to me like Sony might be the only one developing a next gen system with the power a lot GAFFERs are clamoring for. So what say you GAF? Am I way off with my assumptions, or does it look like Sony will take the graphical crown next gen based on the rumored specs of Wii U and the next Xbox?

 

[cyberheater]

Being that Sony hasn't said how much more powerful PS4 would be over Nextbox, I figured I'd ask around here.

Sony has never said that PS4 would be more powerful then Xbox 720.

What was reported was :-

PlayStation 4's early technical specifications are looking "more powerful" than those of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox targets, according to PSM3's development sources.

So, take from that would you will.

 

[phosphor112]

You do know the PS2 could do 1080i.

What does this have todo with anything.

What did the DS sales have to do with anything.

:lol :lol

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Sony has never said that PS4 would be more powerful then Xbox 720.

What was reported was :-



So, take from that would you will.

You could also spin that quote to say the early tech specs of PS4 are already looking more powerful than the next Xbox's targets.

I'm trying to get some ideas of what PS4 could do, not get into a pissing contest of something we hardly know anything about yet. Let's save that for later.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

You could also spin that quote to say the early tech specs of PS4 are already looking more powerful than the next Xbox's targets.

I'm trying to get some ideas of what PS4 could do, not get into a pissing contest of something we hardly know anything about yet. Let's save that for later.

We don't know what PS4 can do because we don't know anything about it yet. Just as there is a rumor it may use Cell there are rumors it may use an AMD APU. So really there's nothing to go on yet. The most Sony has said is that they wouldn't be giving the competition a year's head start again. I would expect the PS4 out by the end of 2013 at the latest.

I also wouldn't look at Vita as some proponent of Sony going high end again. Vita uses off the shelf 2009/2010 parts.

 

[KageMaru]

You could also spin that quote to say the early tech specs of PS4 are already looking more powerful than the next Xbox's targets.

I'm trying to get some ideas of what PS4 could do, not get into a pissing contest of something we hardly know anything about yet. Let's save that for later.

I posted this in one of the next gen threads, possibly this one, I'm not sure how reliable this guy is but he knows what he's talking about:

I'd very surprised if SONY hasn't finalized the specs by now. Different reliable background sources point at a very specific solution, but I've no intention to go into any specifics since I promised confidentiality. If those are for real I guess many will be quite surprised since the usual expectations I've read about it so far are either exaggerated or idiotically high.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1615081&postcount=53

Basically I'm not expecting anything big from either Sony or MS.

 

[cyberheater]

I also wouldn't look at Vita as some proponent of Sony going high end again. Vita uses off the shelf 2009/2010 parts.

Actually I do think that's a reasonable model for PS4. Sony even said they'd use more off the shelve parts for PS4.

 

[Karak]

Basically I'm not expecting anything big from either Sony or MS.

Agreed. Their search for excellent profitability, the recent points from their new Prez and so forth just seem to indicate more of a base gaming machine and not an uber piece of tech. After this gen power and tech really became meaningless to me anyway. So many games across the platforms showed that both had strengths and weaknesses and power didn't mean half as much as it was assumed it would. Features within the OS and with the hardware itself matter more to me now.

 

[StevieP]

We don't know what PS4 can do because we don't know anything about it yet. Just as there is a rumor it may use Cell there are rumors it may use an AMD APU. So really there's nothing to go on yet. The most Sony has said is that they wouldn't be giving the competition a year's head start again. I would expect the PS4 out by the end of 2013 at the latest.

I also wouldn't look at Vita as some proponent of Sony going high end again. Vita uses off the shelf 2009/2010 parts.

2008/2009 parts.

 

[Roo]

Basically I'm not expecting anything big from either Sony or MS.

Same here.
I mean why are they always trying to outdo themselves?
what's the point of cutting edge tech and brand recognition
if you keep bleeding and bleeding money.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They cut themselves so they know they can feel.

 

[KageMaru]

You do know the PS2 could do 1080i.

If you're referring GT4, you do know it's not real 1080i, right?

Agreed.

Same here.

Yup, though I'm still expecting a good jump, just not a '32 SPE, 580 GPU, and 4GB' jump.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Actually I do think that's a reasonable model for PS4. Sony even said they'd use more off the shelve parts for PS4.

So then expect midrange parts from 2009/2010 for the PS4. Not a 7970 with 8 gigs of ram and a Cell with 16 SPUs. Huh I bet they could get something with a slightly modern CPU, with a 2009/2010 midrange GPU in an AMD APU part..............

 

[Death Dealer]

So then expect midrange parts from 2009/2010 for the PS4. Not a 7970 with 8 gigs of ram and a Cell with 16 SPUs. Huh I bet they could get something with a slightly modern CPU, with a 2009/2010 midrange GPU in an AMD APU part..............

I expect a mid range part from 2013 or unreleased 2014 tech. I don't expect a new Cell derived CPU but maybe an old one for backward compatibility. And I expect 2GB. I don't think the rumor implied it would be a beast compared to the 720, only modestly better specs.

 

[Death Dealer]

.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

We don't know what PS4 can do because we don't know anything about it yet. Just as there is a rumor it may use Cell there are rumors it may use an AMD APU. So really there's nothing to go on yet. The most Sony has said is that they wouldn't be giving the competition a year's head start again. I would expect the PS4 out by the end of 2013 at the latest.

I also wouldn't look at Vita as some proponent of Sony going high end again. Vita uses off the shelf 2009/2010 parts.

Well can people speculate on cell alone then? Suppose it did have 16 SPUs as the rumors I cited suggest. What kind of power would that bring compared to Wii U/Nextbox CPU? Is cell a more powerful CPU?

I guess the point I'm making is that significant R&D already went into cell and blu-ray and that it will theoretically be cheaper this time around if they use cell again. This would enable them (again theoretically) to allocate more money into a better GPU and RAM which were bottle necks in PS3 that Sony should want to rectify.

 

[KageMaru]

I expect a mid range part from 2013 or unreleased 2014 tech. I don't expect a new Cell derived CPU but maybe an old one for backward compatibility. And I expect 2GB. I don't think the rumor implied it would be a beast compared to the 720, only modestly better specs.

I have the feeling you're going to be disappointed. Wouldn't a midrange part from 2013 (ignoring the 2014 bit) raise the power draw above acceptable levels for a console?

Well can people speculate on cell alone then? Suppose it did have 16 SPUs as the rumors I cited suggest. What kind of power would that bring compared to Wii U/Nextbox CPU? Is cell a more powerful CPU?

I guess the point I'm making is that significant R&D already went into cell and blu-ray and that it will theoretically be cheaper this time around if they use cell again. This would enable them (again theoretically) to allocate more money into a better GPU and RAM which were bottle necks in PS3 that Sony should want to rectify.

They could use Cell, they could not. I've seen developers comment on how Cell could be beneficial just like I've seen devs say Cell isn't necessary next gen. It's pointless to compare hardware that doesn't exist, so there's no telling how it would compare to the Wii-U or nextbox CPU.

Also they could want a better GPU and RAM all they want, but it will basically come down to heat and power draw of the unit. One of the biggest clues we could get for either the nextbox or PS4 is if we knew the size of the console case. However we're a loooong way from finding that out IMO.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I have the feeling you're going to be disappointed. Wouldn't a midrange part from 2013 (ignoring the 2014 bit) raise the power draw above acceptable levels for a console?

Potentially yes it would. Though there seems to be a steady push to limit heat and power requirements in midrange parts the past couple of years. Forgoing brute force for power and heat efficiency. A midrange 2013 part isn't going to be that much more powerful than a 2011 part in pure numbers, but much closer to acceptable for a console than a lot of high end parts of the past 6 years.

 

[Karak]

Also they could want a better GPU and RAM all they want, but it will basically come down to heat and power draw of the unit. One of the biggest clues we could get for either the nextbox or PS4 is if we knew the size of the console case. However we're a loooong way from finding that out IMO.

B3D has done some specs if the box was the same size as a 360 or Xbox and also if it was smaller like a settop.

 

[Jonm1010]

B3D has done some specs if the box was the same size as a 360 or Xbox and also if it was smaller like a settop.

What were their results? I'd be interested to read that.

Do they account for total wattage as well?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Well can people speculate on cell alone then? Suppose it did have 16 SPUs as the rumors I cited suggest. What kind of power would that bring compared to Wii U/Nextbox CPU? Is cell a more powerful CPU?

I guess the point I'm making is that significant R&D already went into cell and blu-ray and that it will theoretically be cheaper this time around if they use cell again. This would enable them (again theoretically) to allocate more money into a better GPU and RAM which were bottle necks in PS3 that Sony should want to rectify.

It would seem Cell is really a pain in the ass to program for. They could probably get more practical, easily accessible "power" by going with something else.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I posted this in one of the next gen threads, possibly this one, I'm not sure how reliable this guy is but he knows what he's talking about:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1615081&postcount=53

Basically I'm not expecting anything big from either Sony or MS.

Gesh....the talk there is a rehash of Vita GPU talk about TBDR that I brought up a year ago. TBDR is a process vs brute force approach that gives the Vita GPU an advantage over more powerful console GPUs.

They are talking PowerVR GPUs in a console rather than a handheld because they have shown themselves to be more efficient. Now that we are not seeing the 10X performance increases in CPUs and GPUs each generation they need to be smarter in how they use the silicon. Why not take some of the Power VR ideas (processes) and apply them to the more powerful console GPUs. PowerVR GPUs are NOT more powerful, they just use the power more efficiently (smarter).

I have no idea what GPU Sony is going to use but they are going with a newer version of the Cell. Rumors have the next xbox with 6 newer IBM Power PPUs and I think that Sony will go with 2-4 PPUs and something on the order of 10 SPUs. They will implement part of the GPU process as ray-tracing (lighting) using SPUs and part traditional GPU triangle and fill.

Again....we have no idea beyond support for a 8K video stream, 300FPS which probably means 8+ 1080P video streams for VR and multiple programmable DSP elements to interface with sensors to support AR. They are looking into and probably will use a state of the art 3D stacking to build custom chips for next generation. Memory will probably be included in the same chip with the CPU and GPU, if heat is not an issue, GPU and CPU in the same package. Sony has plans to use the same CPU and GPU in medical imaging so that will impact the SOC design.

Just in case you haven't read previous posts about IBM 3D wafer stacking....it's coming in 2013 and makes a process of 3D stacking with talk of standards for wafer design to enable building (stacking) from wafers that are built to standards allowing a choice from a catalog to allow a custom build, built with different processes and dies and married in a stack. Each wafer built and tested separately. Memory and GPUs benefit from stacking with up to 40% improvement in efficiency. Reduce the connection distances and Vcc can be reduced making the chip more efficient and producing less heat.

Handhelds have been using SOC and stacking for space as well as power efficiency. It has been more expensive to do this and justified for increased battery life. IBM and articles about 3D stacking have intelligent use of 3D stacking as NOW being economically practical for Consoles.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Haha, not really.

PS4 aside for a second, the Vita is a platform with enormous potential for Sony. They basically built an OS from scratch, they're building a developer platform that goes beyond games and using it on a single device for the next 5 years would be beyond stupid.

Using it in a phone or tablet form is just a matter of time imo. And if tablets continue to evolve at this pace then you could have a pretty powerful gaming system. Games delivered digitally, working on multiple devices... that's very exciting.

I think a cheap box TV-only version of that platform is more likely than an expensive, powerful console with the same old dual shock controller.




I would say the tablet market is just in its infancy, there's a lot of potential for innovative products in that space and Sony has a lot to bring to it with their gaming expertise. It's certainly a more interesting strategy than building yet another shitty Android or Windows 8 tablet like every other electronics manufacturer.

Interesting, Sony mentioned they could expand on the Vita OS and use it in Sony phones. Also mentioned is massively building on the PS Suite inventory of apps.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PlaySta...hio-Matsumoto-Kunimasa-Suzuki,news-14166.html

comments from incoming (April) President and CEO Kazuo Hirai indicated that Sony may be looking to bring the PlayStation Vita OS to smartphones and tablets. Hirai made this revelation on Friday during a Q&A, reminding everyone that the Vita OS isn't just for gaming, that it's actually a mobile OS, hinting to the two aforementioned form factors.

"If you're asking if we've made it in a way that's expandable, so that it's possible to apply to smartphones and tablets on top of achieving the high responsiveness we need for gaming devices--it is possible," added SCE’s Senior Vice President Yoshio Matsumoto during the Q&A with reporters. "That doesn't mean that we're applying it to smartphones and tablets at this point in time, but it's been designed with expandability in mind."

 

[TUROK]

I have no idea what GPU Sony is going to use but they are going with a newer version of the Cell. Rumors have the next xbox with 6 newer IBM Power PPUs and I think that Sony will go with 2-4 PPUs and something on the order of 10 SPUs. They will implement part of the GPU process as ray-tracing (lighting) using SPUs and part traditional GPU triangle and fill.

Again....we have no idea beyond support for a 8K video stream, 300FPS which probably means 8+ 1080P video streams for VR and multiple programmable DSP elements to interface with sensors to support AR. They are looking into and probably will use a state of the art 3D stacking to build custom chips for next generation. Memory will probably be included in the same chip with the CPU and GPU, if heat is not an issue, GPU and CPU in the same package. Sony has plans to use the same CPU and GPU in medical imaging so that will impact the SOC design.

Wait... You're joking, right?

 

[GopherD]

Wait... You're joking, right?

It is now more prevalent after the PS3 browser incident of 2012.

GAF Law 34: Don't doubt the Rigby.

 

[KageMaru]

Gesh....the talk there is a rehash of Vita GPU talk about TBDR that I brought up a year ago. TBDR is a process vs brute force approach that gives the Vita GPU an advantage over more powerful console GPUs.

They are talking PowerVR GPUs in a console rather than a handheld because they have shown themselves to be more efficient. Now that we are not seeing the 10X performance increases in CPUs and GPUs each generation they need to be smarter in how they use the silicon. Why not take some of the Power VR ideas (processes) and apply them to the more powerful console GPUs. PowerVR GPUs are NOT more powerful, they just use the power more efficiently (smarter).

I know what the thread is about, that specific quote I posted has nothing to do with the thread or PVR GPUs. Someone asked about Sony locking down their specs by now and he replied.

I have no idea what GPU Sony is going to use but they are going with a newer version of the Cell. Rumors have the next xbox with 6 newer IBM Power PPUs and I think that Sony will go with 2-4 PPUs and something on the order of 10 SPUs. They will implement part of the GPU process as ray-tracing (lighting) using SPUs and part traditional GPU triangle and fill.

Again....we have no idea beyond support for a 8K video stream, 300FPS which probably means 8+ 1080P video streams for VR and multiple programmable DSP elements to interface with sensors to support AR. They are looking into and probably will use a state of the art 3D stacking to build custom chips for next generation. Memory will probably be included in the same chip with the CPU and GPU, if heat is not an issue, GPU and CPU in the same package. Sony has plans to use the same CPU and GPU in medical imaging so that will impact the SOC design.

Sorry I have a hard time taking anyone serious who thinks the ps2 can render in 1080i.

Just in case you haven't read previous posts about IBM 3D wafer stacking....it's coming in 2013 and makes a process of 3D stacking with talk of standards for wafer design to enable building (stacking) from wafers that are built to standards allowing a choice from a catalog to allow a custom build, built with different processes and dies and married in a stack. Each wafer built and tested separately. Memory and GPUs benefit from stacking with up to 40% improvement in efficiency. Reduce the connection distances and Vcc can be reduced making the chip more efficient and producing less heat.

Handhelds have been using SOC and stacking for space as well as power efficiency. It has been more expensive to do this and justified for increased battery life. IBM and articles about 3D stacking have intelligent use of 3D stacking as NOW being economically practical for Consoles.

Hey to be honest I hope you're right and I'm wrong, I want a good jump in performance next gen just like any other gamer. I'm just not jumping on any rumors and rather play it safe and be pleasantly surprised.

It is now more prevalent after the PS3 browser incident of 2012.

GAF Law 34: Don't doubt the Rigby.

In my world it's called throwing shit at the wall and being lucky one stuck. =p

 

[Sheikh]

I posted this in one of the next gen threads, possibly this one, I'm not sure how reliable this guy is but he knows what he's talking about:



http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1615081&postcount=53

Basically I'm not expecting anything big from either Sony or MS.

sorry but who are you quoting?

MS might go for a slightly more powerful console than xbox 360 and focus more on KINECT 2 since they now have a very small footing in the casual world too. Although that can go against them . I mean how many people are playing KINECT months after purchase or how many are satisfied with their purchase?

As for SONY, if they come up with something that is only marginally more powerful than PS3 ,it would be suicide. People NOW associate PLAYSTATION brand with cutting edge graphics and gameplay . SONY must stick to that stance next gen . They dont have to come up with a new media player since BD is already there. All they need is a very powerful CPU and GPU combo.

I would say that either SONY should come up with a very powerful CPU or go with a CELL cluster since CELL would shrink to 15nm by 2013 i guess and turbo-charging those CELLs with more PPUs and SPEs can be a solution too

 

[KageMaru]

sorry but who are you quoting?

MS might go for a slightly more powerful console than xbox 360 and focus more on KINECT 2 since they now have a very small footing in the casual world too. Although that can go against them . I mean how many people are playing KINECT months after purchase or how many are satisfied with their purchase?

As for SONY, if they come up with something that is only marginally more powerful than PS3 ,it would be suicide. People NOW associate PLAYSTATION brand with cutting edge graphics and gameplay . SONY must stick to that stance next gen . They dont have to come up with a new media player since BD is already there. All they need is a very powerful CPU and GPU combo.

I would say that either SONY should come up with a very powerful CPU or go with a CELL cluster since CELL would shrink to 15nm by 2013 i guess and turbo-charging those CELLs with more PPUs and SPEs can be a solution too

Someone on another forum that knows more than many people here. If we're going to believe any comment or rumor from any site hungering for clicks, why not believe a well informed poster who has sources? It's all bullshit until proven true in the end anyways.

Also only forum posters (warriors more like it) associate the playstation brand with cutting edge graphics and......gameplay (really?). The vast vast majority of the buying market doesn't care nearly as much about any hyperbolic hardware. Pull a random person off the street and they'll likely know what a PS2 or PS3 is, but ask them what they think about the Emotion Engine in the PS2 or the Reality Synthesizer in the PS3 and you'll likely see a blank stare.

Sorry but judging by your reaction to the quote, and suggestions for next gen hardware, I'm lead to believe your perception is a bit off from reality.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

As for SONY, if they come up with something that is only marginally more powerful than PS3 ,it would be suicide.

Right, like it was a suicide for Nintendo to come up with only marginally more powerful hardware after several generations of very strong machines. Coming up with another loss-maker would be suicide for Sony. On the other hand, a less ambitious machine that could be sold at a profit, no matter the market share, would buy them a chance to fight another day.

People NOW associate PLAYSTATION brand with cutting edge graphics and gameplay.

Cutting edge gameplay, available only on Sony PlayStation® 3. Seriously, what does that even mean?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Also only forum posters (warriors more like it) associate the playstation brand with cutting edge graphics and......gameplay (really?).

Even Yoshida says that visuals are the Playstation "gene"

"That was the thing at the very beginning of designing the hardware that we wanted to overcome," he says. "Of course, we wanted to offer better visuals. That's the 'gene' of PlayStation."

http://kotaku.com/5814295/what-if-the-playstation-vita-is-just-another-psp

 

[Manmademan]

Sorry I have a hard time taking anyone serious who thinks the ps2 can render in 1080i.

It actually can. There was a product called the "Xploder" that took advantage of this, and could display PS2 games in HD.

Q: The PS2 hardware isn"t capable of outputting 720p and 1080i
A: Contrary to popular belief, the PlayStation 2 can output 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i modes via a Component cable. In addition the PS2 supports the following VESA modes (via VGA adaptor):

640 x 480 (60,72, 75, 85hz)
800 x 600 (56, 60, 72, 75,85hz)
1024 x 768 (60, 70, 75, 85hz)
1280 x 1024 (60, 75hz)

Xploder FAQ

I used it a few times on games like FFXII and silent hill. squashes the screen a bit, but yup- HD. This is a bit of a technicality though, since almost no one bought the product and the PS2 clearly wasn't "meant" to be outputting in HD normally- most games weren't compatible.

 

[KageMaru]

Even Yoshida says that visuals are the Playstation "gene"



http://kotaku.com/5814295/what-if-the-playstation-vita-is-just-another-psp

That's great but what else is he supposed to say really? No matter what they release in the PS4, it's going to offer "better visuals" than the current gen, so it's not like my expectations go against his "gene" claim.

I have no issue with the claims that Sony has produced systems that are competitive in performance at each system's release. However it's this mentality that they always have hardware head and shoulders above the competition each gen is laughable at best.

It just sounds like some people are already rooting for their favorite team before we even have any details out of pure bias. I mean, come on, "cutting edge gameplay"? I can care less if the PS4 or Nextbox turn out more powerful, I just plan to get whatever system offers me the best bang for my buck.

Edit:

It actually can. There was a product called the "Xploder" that took advantage of this, and could display PS2 games in HD.



Xploder FAQ

I used it a few times on games like FFXII and silent hill. squashes the screen a bit, but yup- HD. This is a bit of a technicality though, since almost no one bought the product and the PS2 clearly wasn't "meant" to be outputting in HD normally- most games weren't compatible.

My comment was directly referring to the ps2 being able to 'render' a game in 1080i, meaning natively, not through some tricks like field rendering.

 

[SolidSnakex]

That's great but what else is he supposed to say really? No matter what they release in the PS4, it's going to offer "better visuals" than the current gen, so it's not like my expectations go against his "gene" claim.

My point is that you tried to dismiss Sheikh's comment by saying that it's only a view that forum warriors hold. One of the highest ranking people in the PS brand has the same view about their stance when it comes to visuals. He's obviously not talking about a slight step up from the graphics of their previous system since he's talking about the Vita. That's a substantial step up from the PSP.

It just sounds like some people are already rooting for their favorite team before we even have any details out of pure bias. I mean, come on, "cutting edge gameplay"? I can care less if the PS4 or Nextbox turn out more powerful, I just plan to get whatever system offers me the best bang for my buck.

Some of it is due to what you say, but I think another part of it is due to people be nervous about there not being a really powerful console next gen. There are rumors that point toward the Wii U and next Xbox not having the leap in tech that people were expecting. So the PS4 is the only hope for that leap if those rumors turn out to be true.

 

[H_Prestige]

Price is the biggest factor now. Sony needs to target $250-300 launch price, not a penny more. They also need to launch early. It will have enough power regardless, and only the super retarded nerds actually give a shit in the first place. How many times does it need to be reminded to some boneheads here that ps1 and ps2 were not powerful systems? They were both weak, piece of shit consoles. And they obliterated the competition.

 

[KageMaru]

My point is that you tried to dismiss Sheikh's comment by saying that it's only a view that forum warriors hold. One of the highest ranking people in the PS brand has the same view about their stance when it comes to visuals. He's obviously not talking about a slight step up from the graphics of their previous system since he's talking about the Vita. That's a substantial step up from the PSP.

I never meant to insinuate that the PS4 would be a slight step from the current gen.

I'm just hesitant to look at the Vita as a basis for where they'll go next gen. There is more room for growth in the handheld market than the console market.

Some of it is due to what you say, but I think another part of it is due to people be nervous about there not being a really powerful console next gen. There are rumors that point toward the Wii U and next Xbox not having the leap in tech that people were expecting. So the PS4 is the only hope for that leap if those rumors turn out to be true.

Well with Sheikh, I'm inclined to believe it's the former and not the latter, which is why I replied specifically as I did.

I just don't see the logic in believing rumors about one system but then going off the deep end on another system. There are reasons to believe both next gen systems can go either way.

Many of the assumptions surrounding next gen are full of holes IMO. These "6x" more powerful claims are baseless and meaningless since we don't have a reference to how they are making these claims. You can't just lump system performance or power in such a general way. At least when Tim recently talked about leaps in performance, he specifically used TFLOPs as a basis.

That's fine for these people to have hope, a part of me still does as well, but we're not getting any Cell clusters or anything like that.

 

[AgentP]

Sorry I have a hard time taking anyone serious who thinks the ps2 can render in 1080i.

I remember turing 1080i mode on in GT4. It might have been some upscaling trick, but the output was true 1080i.


I

 

[Liamario]

What were the unofficial hardware specs of PS3 and 360 before we got official word?

 

[phosphor112]

Sorry I have a hard time taking anyone serious who thinks the ps2 can render in 1080i.

...erm...

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4852

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lMYGZ5bSDU...

And the game ran at 60fps... so yeah.. it was capable of 1080i, it's just only 2 games ever used it.

22. At what resolution does most PS2 games run at?

Almost all PS2 games run at 640 x 448 interlaced. Only Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy can run at 1080i resolution.

http://www.playstationpro2.com/ps2faq.html

I'm 95% sure it was native rendering. There is a clear quality difference from 1080i vs 480p.
Normally I used 480p (until I got a 1080p tv that is...) but GT4 looks much better than it's other game modes.

 

[bgassassin]

What were the unofficial hardware specs of PS3 and 360 before we got official word?

It's kind of hard to call them unofficial. Not finalized may be the better term since neither seemed to do much to stop the amount of early info we saw from coming out. I do recall early on that both planned to have only 256MB of memory. Cell was pretty much always known. Xenon was targeted to be a 3.5Ghz 2-way SMT OoO CPU before having to settle for Cell PPEs. It's debatable about when the RSX was settled on. And Xenos' targets seemed to remain the same throughout the process.

 

[jeff_rigby]

That's great but what else is he supposed to say really? No matter what they release in the PS4, it's going to offer "better visuals" than the current gen, so it's not like my expectations go against his "gene" claim.

I have no issue with the claims that Sony has produced systems that are competitive in performance at each system's release. However it's this mentality that they always have hardware head and shoulders above the competition each gen is laughable at best.

It just sounds like some people are already rooting for their favorite team before we even have any details out of pure bias. I mean, come on, "cutting edge gameplay"? I can care less if the PS4 or Nextbox turn out more powerful, I just plan to get whatever system offers me the best bang for my buck.

Edit:

My comment was directly referring to the ps2 being able to 'render' a game in 1080i, meaning natively, not through some tricks like field rendering.

And my comment was that the PS2 can do 1080i, I did not mean render a game...the PS3 struggles to RENDER a game at 1080. My comment was for those lumping the PS2 with SD only game platforms when it falls somewhere above SD.

My comments on the PS4 were carefully measured. Support for 8 1080P video streams or 8K video does not give us an idea of the GPU power in the PS4. Again, the PS2 could DO 1080i but couldn't render 1080i. Sony is providing MEDIA support in their game consoles that matches what they expect to be a consumer standard during the life of the Game console. PS2 1080i, PS3 1080P, 3-D and 4K, PS4 1080P, 4K, 8k.

As to throwing shit on the wall.....I don't like the imagery. There are 8 predictions in all and I'll post them again;

1) PS3 browser update to webkit - HTML5 - WebGL (last two still coming)
2) DLNA upgrade Confirmed
3) Video Editor upgrade Confirmed
4) Contact manager
5) Activity log
6) Calender
7) New Chat programs

8) The XMB will be a browser desktop supporting webview windows and using webkit UI.

Where did I get those ideas, from the OLPC project where Sony got many of their ideas for the Vita.