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[jeff_rigby]

Oban is the name of the next Xbox chip, stacking an IBM CPU and an AMD GPU onto an SoC.

Yes. sorry I should have posted it as such as the next generation Xbox rumor has the chip named Oban and if it's a Japanese name it might be a process name and might also be in the PS4 and the next PS3 slimmer slim.

The stacking can have IBM, Sony and Microsoft sharing some of the SAME wafers that are stacked into the OBAN. This might also account for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com

 

[DieH@rd]

If Sony goes with 4-5 layers, then each of them will have to be very small and low-powered. Something like 200-300mm^2 per layer. That will give them the ability to stack them more easily, and not to go wild with the total SoC power consumption.

How much power does one 300mm^2 chip spends @ 28nm [lets say Radeon 7xxx chip of simmilar size]?

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

 

[StevieP]

Yes. sorry I should have posted it as such as the next generation Xbox rumor has the chip named Oban and if it's a Japanese name it might be a process name and might also be in the PS4 and the next PS3 slimmer slim.

The stacking can have IBM, Sony and Microsoft sharing some of the SAME wafers that are stacked into the OBAN. This might also account for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com

Sony and Microsoft shared the same main CPU (the PPE) this generation without registering sites like that in 2005.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Well I'll tell ya what, that stacking technology will definitely be in next-next gen lol.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Sony and Microsoft shared the same main CPU (the PPE) this generation without registering sites like that in 2005.

They shared an IBM developed for Sony PPE only.

The domain name registration by Microsoft serves no purpose and only indicated some future POSSIBLE partnership between Sony and IBM. Speculation had:

1) Windows Phone 7 OS in Sony phones
2) PS Suite in Microsoft Windows 7 phones
3) Sony making the next Xbox hardware.

The Oban name for the next generation Xbox chip is a possible clue. Sony is investing in a Cell2 and GPU to support 8K media. They did this for the PS3 to support 1080P, 3-D and 4K. They took a loss in the PS3 game console to give them an edge with blu-ray,3-D and 4K I expect they did the same with cell2. The Oban process if that is correct gives them an edge in CE equipment that can't be easily matched by Samsung or Apple game console if those rumors are true.

It's an interesting theory anyway.

 

[jeff_rigby]

If Sony goes with 4-5 layers, then each of them will have to be very small and low-powered. Something like 200-300mm^2 per layer. That will give them the ability to stack them more easily, and not to go wild with the total SoC power consumption.

How much power does one 300mm^2 chip spends @ 28nm [lets say Radeon 7xxx chip of simmilar size]?

Very possible that the AMD GPU could be multi-stacked wafers, very possible to have several stacked SPU wafers for the rumored 32 with one next gen PPe on each wafer.

I expect they learned allot with the PS3, it will be interesting to read how Cell2 differs from cell1.

Thanks to McHuj http://www.gsaglobal.org/events/2011/0331/docs/keynote_yuan_xie.pdf

 

[StevieP]

They shared an IBM developed for Sony PPE only.

The domain name registration by Microsoft serves no purpose and only indicated some future POSSIBLE partnership between Sony and IBM. Speculation had:

1) Windows Phone 7 OS in Sony phones
2) PS Suite in Microsoft Windows 7 phones
3) Sony making the next Xbox hardware.

The Oban name for the next generation Xbox chip is a possible clue. Sony is investing in a Cell2 and GPU to support 8K media. They did this for the PS3 to support 1080P, 3-D and 4K. They took a loss in the PS3 game console to give them an edge with blu-ray,3-D and 4K I expect they did the same with cell2. The Oban process if that is correct gives them an edge in CE equipment that can't be easily matched by Samsung or Apple game console if those rumors are true.

It's an interesting theory anyway.

I think you're simultaneously putting too much stock in 4K, 8K, and Cell (which I do not think will be making a return in any meaningful way in the PS4). Speculation 3 is just .... way out there. Not going to happen unless Sony is getting out of the console game completely. There *was* speculation of that recently (from a respected industry insider, no less - can't remember where that article was), and that's ludicrous in my eyes. The PS3 was a disaster on pretty much every level imaginable and it would still be dumb for the Playstation brand to go away in the home console space in my opinion.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I think you're simultaneously putting too much stock in 4K, 8K, and Cell (which I do not think will be making a return in any meaningful way in the PS4). Speculation 3 is just .... way out there. Not going to happen unless Sony is getting out of the console game completely. There *was* speculation of that recently (from a respected industry insider, no less - can't remember where that article was), and that's ludicrous in my eyes.

The stacking can have IBM, Sony and Microsoft sharing some of the SAME wafers that are stacked into the OBAN. This might also account for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com

 

[DieH@rd]

How are the layers communicating with each other, and how fast can they do it? Vertical communication will have to pass trough that layer of glue...

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I think you're simultaneously putting too much stock in 4K, 8K, and Cell (which I do not think will be making a return in any meaningful way in the PS4). Speculation 3 is just .... way out there. Not going to happen unless Sony is getting out of the console game completely. There *was* speculation of that recently (from a respected industry insider, no less - can't remember where that article was), and that's ludicrous in my eyes. The PS3 was a disaster on pretty much every level imaginable and it would still be dumb for the Playstation brand to go away in the home console space in my opinion.

Respectable? Wasn't it that onlive lady that said one console manufacture will bow out at E3?

I can't see sony leaving the industry. MS either. But no PS4 rumors does scare me. Look how many MS ones we have already.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

At best the Cell processor was twice as powerful at the 360's CPU. But its GPU had severe limitations. The net result was each platform having marginal advantages or disadvantages. But if the 720 SoC with a Radeon 6670 rumor is true and Sony targets the high end even conservatively they could pretty easily field a system that is more than 4 times as powerful with maybe twice the RAM and zero disadvantages. Even if multiplatform developers do nothing else to upgrade their PS4 versions, we'd be looking at games that run at twice the resolution AND twice the framerate. Unless you think Kinect will actually revolutionize the next Battlefield, or whatever, it'd be hard to recommend the 720p, 30fps version over a 1080p, 60fps on PS4. The difference would be undeniable.

 

[Karak]

Respectable? Wasn't it that onlive lady that said one console manufacture will bow out at E3?

I can't see sony leaving the industry. MS either. But no PS4 rumors does scare me. Look how many MS ones we have already.

With all Sony's hubbub about the mobile market and barely any mention in the 4 step briefing about the console market. Man I could see them deciding profitability did NOT lie in a console that fought at times with the PC. Instead concentrating on a mobile...even though the competition there is worse it seems. It would be a weird world if that happened. But this day and age I don't question the possibility of anything anymore.

Another thing concerning price. By the time these two come out, PC's that play amazing games will be even cheaper. I sure hope neither company think a 400-500 price tag is ok.

 

[i-Lo]

With all Sony's hubbub about the mobile market and barely any mention in the 4 step briefing about the console market. Man I could see them deciding profitability did NOT lie in a console that fought at times with the PC. Instead concentrating on a mobile...even though the competition there is worse it seems. It would be a weird world if that happened. But this day and age I don't question the possibility of anything anymore.

Another thing concerning price. By the time these two come out, PC's that play amazing games will be even cheaper. I sure hope neither company think a 400-500 price tag is ok.

If people can't shell out around $450 for a new console when it first hits the market (given it's going to have a probable life span of around 6 years) then they should curb their expectations of the performance. Adding in the inflation, it looks like some people here have eyes bigger than their stomachs given their huge appetite for great performance and their attitude towards the hypothetical pricing they aren't (or can't) willing to accept.

 

[Karak]

If people can't shell out around $450 for a new console when it first hits the market (given it's going to have a probable life span of around 6 years) then they should curb their expectations of the performance. Adding in the inflation, it looks like some people here have eyes bigger than their stomachs given their huge appetite for great performance and their attitude towards the hypothetical pricing they aren't (or can't) willing to accept.

Agreed. Also sadly amazing PC's can be had for less and less money every day. Its a VERY tight line to hit without someone starting to think of alternatives. Which many do. There is a sweet spot but its a much smaller bullseye this go around.

 

[JJD]

If people can't shell out around $450 for a new console when it first hits the market (given it's going to have a probable life span of around 6 years) then they should curb their expectations of the performance. Adding in the inflation, it looks like some people here have eyes bigger than their stomachs given their huge appetite for great performance and their attitude towards the hypothetical pricing they aren't (or can't) willing to accept.

The sad part is that a lot of folks complaining about console prices don't mind to pay the same or in some cases even more for a cell phone that they will use for 1, 2 years at max.

I would be willing to pay 400 or 499 dollars for a really powerful PS4 or 720. And when I say that I mean paying 900, 1000 dollars since I live in Brazil.

 

[DBT85]

The sad part is that a lot of folks complaining about console prices don't mind to pay the same or in some cases even more for a cell phone that they will use for 1, 2 years at max.

I would be willing to pay 400 or 499 dollars for a really powerful PS4 or 720. And when I say that I mean paying 900, 1000 dollars since I live in Brazil.

bu bu bu bu bu the phone is free! I'm just tied to a contract for months on end and end up paying over the odds.

I wonder if Sony of Microsoft has considered a similar model. Console is free but $15 a month for 24-36 months.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

If people can't shell out around $450 for a new console when it first hits the market (given it's going to have a probable life span of around 6 years) then they should curb their expectations of the performance. Adding in the inflation, it looks like some people here have eyes bigger than their stomachs given their huge appetite for great performance and their attitude towards the hypothetical pricing they aren't (or can't) willing to accept.

Yeah. I certainly curbed my expectations with price/performance with upcoming generation. Unless Sony is will to take stupid loses again, they ain't, there is no real incentive anymore, especially with how conservative both Nintendo and rumors of MS hardware in which people don't want to play ball with higher prices.

I mean in the PC market we have dedicated cards ranging in the $300-500 alone for the higher end, yet it's how to fit these monsters, stay price conscious for a home console market and not bleed money all at once that concerns the console makers.

Well if you want the power, but ain't welling to pay for it, console makers will just be conservative, with how the market reacted to Wii, no need to go balls out (makes me kind of sad, they likely won't anymore) on hardware and it's associated losses.

 

[jeff_rigby]

How are the layers communicating with each other, and how fast can they do it? Vertical communication will have to pass trough that layer of glue...

Same way they have done for nearly 10 years, with TSV. The following PDF is a economics feasibility study of the advantages and costs (Thanks to McHuj).

http://www.gsaglobal.org/events/2011/0331/docs/keynote_yuan_xie.pdf

In it concerns voiced by Rolf NM, DieH@rd and others are referenced. 3D stacking incurs a cost and a look at the benefits this gives vs the added costs is needed. It seems to me when reading the paper that there are several benefits.

1) Sony can design wafer layers containing devices that will be used in other platforms and wafers could be considered building blocks to put together CE platforms. The economy of scale then works across all of Sony. (Addressing is an issue in stacking identical wafers internal programmable?)

a) A 2 gig memory wafer could be used in TVs, Blu-ray and more with possible two wafers for a total of 4 gigs in a PS4. Same applies with one gig wafer stacking or any amount that fits their roadmap.

b) CPU wafers can have some amount like 4 to 8 SPUs per wafer with large L2 cache. Stack as many as needed.

c) GPU can be split into multiple wafers, stack as many as needed

The above, having wafers with fewer components and stacking fits DieH@rd's earlier post about yield efficiency. With smaller wafers and reducing the number of components on each wafer with testing, yields can increase reducing costs.

I just wonder at the heat dissipation with both GPU and CPU in one package. PS3 dropping two die sizes from 40nm to 28nm might be possible now in one 3D stacking package. Could a PS4 have to wait for 20nm to do the same? Is this the reason PS4 is coming later?

If/when Sony uses the same technique of 3D stacking with the PS3-RSX-memory-Southbridge/usb/lan/hdmi/audio in one chip they could get the PS3 price down incredibly low.

Respectable? Wasn't it that onlive lady that said one console manufacture will bow out at E3?

I can't see sony leaving the industry. MS either. But no PS4 rumors does scare me. Look how many MS ones we have already.

It's gotten expensive and it makes sense to share R&D so I don't have issues with Microsoft and Sony sharing SOME of the technology in a next generation game console. Sony needs a game console to use the economy of scale and volume to writeoff R&D costs for Cell and Cell2. The design goals for CPUs in game consoles and Media consoles is similar enough that the CPU can be used for both. For this reason alone I'm not concerned that Sony will drop out, On the other hand if Sony is more media oriented they might not be concerned at a later launch if it meets the roadmap for the big picture Sony.

 

[brain_stew]

There's a reason we've only ever seen stacked chips in the mobile space.

 

[jeff_rigby]

There's a reason we've only ever seen stacked chips in the mobile space.

The market is not static...conditions change, die size is smaller now. The IBM article is an indication that stacking is now practical for more than mobile. Portable battery operated platforms require Power efficiency and the added cost in stacking is offset by the efficiency increase due to stacking.

Such stacking would allow for dramatically higher levels of integration for information technology and consumer electronics applications. Processors could be tightly packed with memory and networking, for example, into a “brick” of silicon that would create a computer chip 1,000 times faster than today’s fastest microprocessor enabling more powerful smartphones, tablets, computers and gaming devices.

Again, 3D stacking is not new, it's been around for 10 years. Stacking as proposed in the IBM article is making it a PROCESS not a one off custom 3D stacking design. Proper use of Stacking by a company like Sony in creating a Standard for interconnecting the wafers will offset much of the cost, economy of scale again offsets much of the cost.

Labor costs are not going down and putting more of the hardware in the same package reduces assembly (labor) costs. 2013 announced for the start of 3D wafer stacking with 3M adhesive fill/heat dissipation.

http://www.ibm.com/ibm/ideasfromibm/us/chips/102207/index.shtml

In the coming years we expect integration of 3d chips to be an extremely profitable industry. Any breakthrough in this domain would allow rapid advancement in the mobile phone, tablet, Ultra-mobile PC (processor, memory, ASIC, RF), Digital camera (ASIC, memory), Digital video products (GPU, memory), Imaging sensor module (image sensor, DSP, SRAM) domains

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/95319-ibm-and-3m-to-stack-100-silicon-chips-together-using-glue

http://www.emc3d.org/documents/library/marketAnalysis_3D/YOLE3D IC.pdf

 

[phosphor112]

...that..chart above.. is just.. too small... What's that for?

 

[jeff_rigby]

...that..chart above.. is just.. too small... What's that for?

It's a chart of companies who manufacture 3D stacked chips showing research then implementation of 3D stacking IC manufacturing. Sony is at the bottom of the list showing they started 3D stacking late 2009 and growing in use through 2010 where the chart ends.

The quote below the chart shows typical use cases which are nearly always economically practical. Quite a few of the items are Sony use cases including what might be in a PS4.

 

[Krilekk]

At best the Cell processor was twice as powerful at the 360's CPU. But its GPU had severe limitations. The net result was each platform having marginal advantages or disadvantages. But if the 720 SoC with a Radeon 6670 rumor is true and Sony targets the high end even conservatively they could pretty easily field a system that is more than 4 times as powerful with maybe twice the RAM and zero disadvantages. Even if multiplatform developers do nothing else to upgrade their PS4 versions, we'd be looking at games that run at twice the resolution AND twice the framerate. Unless you think Kinect will actually revolutionize the next Battlefield, or whatever, it'd be hard to recommend the 720p, 30fps version over a 1080p, 60fps on PS4. The difference would be undeniable.

You mean just like this generation where everybody went with HD over SD and graphically impressive games over Wii ... oh wait. Cell will not return next gen and it's more than likely that Sony will either just a release a PS3.5 in 2014 or wait a couple of years longer and release a powerful, yet profitable machine in 2016, 2017. They really don't have a choice with how much money they lost on PS3 (their division stands at minus 3 billion for this generation, and that is despite PS2 and PSP being profitable). They went big with PS3 and it didn't pay out. In fact they came down from a 80 % market share to less than 30 %.

If there would be any cooperation between Sony and Microsoft it would be like this: Sony releases the console in Japan, Microsoft in the rest of the world. Cause it will be next to impossible for MS to be successful in Japan.

It's ridiculous to assume the most powerful machine would be the most successful without problems. PS2 was worse than both Gamecube and Xbox in terms of power. Wii was worse than both PS3 and Xbox 360 in terms of power. Price is much more important than any features. And Sony and Microsoft would have to compete with a Wii U that won't cost more than $249. Can't do that with an extremely powerful machine.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

All that proves is that we will not be able to tell the difference between Wii-U and Xbox720 games. The PS3 (compared to the 360) technically exceeds exceeds the 20% the Xbox720 claims over the Wii-U. The more I read commends like this, the more I'm thinking we have a new SNES in the making.

 

[higherARC05]

All that proves is that we will not be able to tell the difference between Wii-U and Xbox720 games. The PS3 is technically exceeds the 20% the Xbox720 claims over the Wii-U. The more I read commends like this, the more I'm thinking we have a new SNES in the making.

ps3 exceeds wiiU specs? since when did it get a double amount of ram and a upgraded gpu/cpu architecture?

hur dur derp

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

ps3 exceeds wiiU specs? since when did it get a double amount of ram and a upgraded gpu/cpu architecture?

hur dur derp

I think he meant that PS3:360 :: 720:WiiU, or that the Wii U is basically on par with MS' next console. By analogy, the Wii U would be the target platform for 90% of 3rd party games along with Nintendo games, making it a new SNES.

I don't think we know enough about any of the current machines to make that claim.

 

[higherARC05]

I think he meant that PS3:360 :: 720:WiiU, or that the Wii U is basically on par with MS' next console. By analogy, the Wii U would be the target platform for 90% of 3rd party games along with Nintendo games, making it a new SNES.

I don't think we know enough about any of the current machines to make that claim.

now it makes sense.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I think he meant that PS3:360 :: 720:WiiU, or that the Wii U is basically on par with MS' next console. By analogy, the Wii U would be the target platform for 90% of 3rd party games along with Nintendo games, making it a new SNES.

I don't think we know enough about any of the current machines to make that claim.

It's all speculation. The biggest question is, will the 3rd party developers embrace the Wii-U?

wait a couple of years longer and release a powerful, yet profitable machine in 2016, 2017.

They don't need to wait that long. If they released it a year later then the 720 the could easily double or triple the performance for the same cost. That graphic chip in the 720 was awful when released, the next years trumped it. Also Nvidia might give Sony a discount for an even better card, that way they aren't completely out of the console race. Otherwise all games will be optimized to run on ATI chips. Now that most games are ports, I would be sweating if I were Nvidia.

 

[DieH@rd]

If nothing else, Sony can get huge benefits from multi-layered memory chips. With them they can easily achieve 4GB mark, which is really not feasible with current chip sizes.

 

[StevieP]

It's all speculation. The biggest question is, will the 3rd party developers embrace the Wii-U?

If it makes economic sense to do so. Modern architectures remove the "bu-bu-bu we can't port our engines" excuse, but there's still the dual-analog tablet.

They don't need to wait that long. If they released it a year later then the 720 the could easily double or triple the performance for the same cost. That graphic chip in the 720 was awful when released, the next years trumped it. Also Nvidia might give Sony a discount for an even better card, that way they aren't completely out of the console race. Otherwise all games will be optimized to run on ATI chips. Now that most games are ports, I would be sweating if I were Nvidia.

I doubt you'll see Nvidia in any of the next gen consoles.

If nothing else, Sony can get huge benefits from multi-layered memory chips. With them they can easily achieve 4GB mark, which is really not feasible with current chip sizes.

Look at Vita for a model of what Sony may be thinking for the PS4, not the PS3. Proven, mature technology that can be leveraged is the way forward.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I doubt it too.. But a modified gtx 460 would own in a console.

 

[jeff_rigby]

If nothing else, Sony can get huge benefits from multi-layered memory chips. With them they can easily achieve 4GB mark, which is really not feasible with current chip sizes.

I reread the article outlining the Sony roadmap for PS4 and a paragraph struck me:

'the company is working on a system-on-chip (SoC) to underpin the product for "seven to 10 years".'
- 'He describes the architecture in broad terms: "You are talking about powerful CPU and GPU with extra DSP and programmable logic.
- 'Tsuruta-san picked out emerging ‘through silicon via’ designs. These stack chips with interconnects running vertically through them to reduce length, raise performance and reduce power consumption.'
- 'Tsuruta-san has noted the difficulties in achieving viable yields at 28nm, though he believes that these problems are now moving towards a resolution.'
- Tsuruta: "We are confident that we can now see a way and that we can use some of these advanced methods to create a new kind of system-on-chip. We think that there are the technologies today that can be taken to this project.”

A detailed description of issues and advantages would give the above more weight. IBM is saying that 2013 will see the first Stacked wafer 3D rather than "apartment building" 3D.

But the following has bulk of the processing sitting on the main board which isn't stacking or SoC.

(Alternative quote in another article: ' “We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.&#8221

 

[J-Rzez]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

Well, it was at one time going to be a completely different story until someone leaked to MS that the PS3 was going to have 512mb of RAM. Or, Epic proposed to them to do so. The difference in games would have been even more noticeable.

 

[Brad Grenz]

You mean just like this generation where everybody went with HD over SD and graphically impressive games over Wii ... oh wait. Cell will not return next gen and it's more than likely that Sony will either just a release a PS3.5 in 2014 or wait a couple of years longer and release a powerful, yet profitable machine in 2016, 2017. They really don't have a choice with how much money they lost on PS3 (their division stands at minus 3 billion for this generation, and that is despite PS2 and PSP being profitable). They went big with PS3 and it didn't pay out. In fact they came down from a 80 % market share to less than 30 %.

Uh, HD consoles this gen have outsold the Wii. There are about 130 million HD consoles sold and something like 90 million Wiis. So "everybody" (gamers) did go for HD, while Nintendo just had a lot of success opening new and underserved market segments (casuals).

Also, you seem to have an exaggerated sense of how much a new "high spec" console would cost. They don't have to lose 6 billion dollars this time around. They could build a significantly more powerful system than the WiiU and 720 and break even on the hardware at a sensible price point (~$400). They don't have to invest billions in building foundries or inventing new architectures. They can do what they've done with the Vita: build the best they can around what is already out there and still blow the doors off the competition.

What makes no sense is the suggestion that they go low end with everyone else with nothing to differentiate their product. MS will have Kinect, Nintendo will have the tablet controller. Unless you are so deluded as to think going down the rabbit hole of me-too peripherals is some kind of recipe for Sony dominance, that's just stupid. The clearest path to success is to double down on the hardcore, differentiate on power, and since neither competitor is even interested in competing on spec next gen, they can do so without breaking the bank.

 

[StevieP]

Nevermind the "adding up competitors to prove a point" thing... It's cute, you think Sony's going to put out DualShock 4 and call it a day.

 

[Brad Grenz]

He claimed people chose SD gaming over HD. That is demonstrably false. And, yeah. I think Sony's best gimmick will be to not pin their hopes and dreams on a gimmick.

 

[StevieP]

He claimed people chose SD gaming over HD. That is demonstrably false. And, yeah. I think Sony's best gimmick will be to not pin their hopes and dreams on a gimmick.

The most consoles and the most software sold by volume happened on the Wii this generation. It also has the top selling games of this generation. That's a fact.

And you're using the term "gimmick" like it's 2006 all over again.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The most consoles and the most software sold by volume happened on the Wii this generation. It also has the top selling games of this generation. That's a fact.

And yet more HD consoles and HD software have been sold, which was my whole point. The market for HD gaming was larger than the market for SD gaming this generation. THAT is the relevant fact. Pretending otherwise is pointless.

 

[Tookay]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

Sony's first-party efforts show off the difference, but overall, you're right (and even then, some of the difference I'm attributing might have been due to better art direction). And, if anything, it was more of a curse for multi-platform development.

 

[davepoobond]

The most consoles and the most software sold by volume happened on the Wii this generation. It also has the top selling games of this generation. That's a fact.

And you're using the term "gimmick" like it's 2006 all over again.

what are you comparing to? ps3 and xbox360 individually? the true metric is all of the HD games sold and all of the HD systems sold vs. all of the SD games and SD systems (that would INCLUDE the PS2!)

obviously HD gaming is where its at, otherwise Wii U wouldn't be HD, right?

 

[StevieP]

what are you comparing to? ps3 and xbox360 individually? the true metric is all of the HD games sold and all of the HD systems sold vs. all of the SD games and SD systems (that would INCLUDE the PS2!)

obviously HD gaming is where its at, otherwise Wii U wouldn't be HD, right?

We should do this every generation! You know, add the 2nd and 3rd place sellers to see if they add up to the one that sold the most. What a relevant metric there.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Remember the fuss made over the PS3's "cell processor"? Same thing here. The PS4 may very well be more powerful than the Nextbox but I doubt the end result graphics will show a great difference.

Did you see the Xbox720's graphic card? For $20-30 more you can see over 2x performance. >.>

Combine both, and this is a different beast.

 

[badcrumble]

We should do this every generation! You know, add the 2nd and 3rd place sellers to see if they add up to the one that sold the most. What a relevant metric there.

Actually, given that the PS3 and 360 (and PC) formed an ecosystem that didn't include the Wii, it's important to consider (though I agree that just adding up the 2nd and 3rd place sellers incredibly simplistic).

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Actually guys SD still owned this past generation.

150 million + DS, 90 million + Wii, 61 million PSP.

300 million + is more than 130 million right?

So the vast majority of gaming is still SD.

 

[RoboFu]

I love these threads!

You have all these people throwing out crazy statements of things we know nothing about!

 

[Ramblin]

Actually guys SD still owned this past generation.

150 million + DS, 90 million + Wii, 61 million PSP.

300 million + is more than 130 million right?

So the vast majority of gaming is still SD.

How many pc's are out there?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

How many pc's are out there?

I thought we were talking about dedicated gaming devices, not machines handed down from God herself.

 

[RoboFu]

How many pc's are out there?

You think millions of people are gaming on pcs? maybe if you include the angry birds crowd.

 

[StevieP]

Dear lord.