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[Panajev2001a]

That's kinda the point no? If you are correct, it's also a half assed feature that doesn't make much sense to use. Why would anyone want that, over a full implementation of the most basic functions, is beyond me.

Well, do not ask me if I am right, I am just repeating what SCE said at GDC 2004 in San Jose: integer LOD only and ...

speaks for itself, but you know that already.

Yes, the support for curved surfaces seems a bit of a waste of silicon, but I am sure people will find a way to use it.

I think Sony thought it would allow them to keep main RAM at 8 MB.

 

[COCKLES]

Haha, yeah right. How did you arrive to that brilliant conclusion?


Rugalz, do you have some, hmmmm, solid data about this or are you basing this quote on the some of the older info (which sounded inconclusive) and Beyond 3D speculation about it.

Playing Rage Racer on the PSONE LCD Monitor.

 

[Panajev2001a]

VU0 is sitting on the same co-op pipe.

True, but the VU1 is out there begging to be used... and I have to

The cute faces VU1 makes... ah... sigh...

Well, it also ought to sit on the same co-op pipe... I still say VFPU = ~VU0 in macro-mode with some spices from VU1 maybe.

And I don't see PSP GPU sitting on a co-op pipe, so don't go telling me stories about VU1.

You have no VIF or no GIF to write custom packets by hand.

I actually do not mind VIF1 and VU1 that much... I like having those 16 KB of VU RAM and 16 KB of Micro-Memory.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Playing Rage Racer on the PSONE LCD Monitor.

You are aware that the PSOne LCD monitor has about 2.2x higher resoution that the PSP has, right ?

The pixel density of that LCD monitor is higher than the pixel density in the PSP monitor.

 

[Fafalada]

You have no VIF or no GIF to write custom packets by hand.

And what do you think Display lists on PSP are made of? Candy bars?
You have to write the packets all the same, just the command language is a bit different.

I think Sony thought it would allow them to keep main RAM at 8 MB.

If anyone actually thought that, I think they must have zero experience of any kind with realtime 3d apps. And I maintain that even if the HOS implementation turned out perfect.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And what do you think Display lists on PSP are made of? Candy bars?
You have to write the packets all the same, just the command language is a bit different.

This is preposterous, I was assured that Candy Bars were going to be the way to go!

Well, you still have to write less stuff:

PS2 = DMA tags -> VIF tag -> GIF tag

Isn't there support in the PSP API for the DMAC ? That would reduce the amount of code you have to write and data needs only to go from main RAM to GPU (if you do T&L there and all) so you really only needs two tags: one for the DMA controller and one for the GPU interface, right ?

If anyone actually thought that, I think they must have zero experience of any kind with realtime 3d apps. And I maintain that even if the HOS implementation turned out perfect.

I am aware that SCE has great chip designers (at the EE level), but of course the SGI guys at nVIDIA and ATI have paid off for them.

Anyways, I agree with you that 8 MB of RAM compared to 32 MB of RAM is a HUGE jump to fix using HOS.

If they had subdivision surfaces they might have a bit of a better point AFAIK they map better to the geometry people use in games: NURBS + sub-division surfaces would help.

The problem is that, IMHO, 8 MB is still not enough (even taking into account the compression HOS would bring, plus PlayStation 2 developers already compress their geometry a lot [newbies like me still use floats lol] when you take into account textures, program data, etc... especially considering that you do not want to access the UMD drive every cycle streaming stuff in as that will kill the battery life.

 

[Lord Error]

Playing Rage Racer on the PSONE LCD Monitor.

Well now I've seen the light - Rage Racer on the PSONE LCD Monitor is the apex of visual quality, graphics has no reason to progress any further beyond that point. I'm sure watching LOTR CGI scene on that same monitor wouldn't look any better P

 

[Fafalada]

Isn't there support in the PSP API for the DMAC ? That would reduce the amount of code you have to write and data needs only to go from main RAM to GPU (if you do T&L there and all) so you really only needs two tags: one for the DMA controller and one for the GPU interface, right ?

There's nothing stopping the API abstraction for building display lists on PS2 - it's just that noone took care of it for the developers. So most of us end up using what we rolled up on our own. And being the metaprogramming whore that I am, I'll probably want to replace those APIs on PSP with something too.

Anyway, obviously PSP hw is geared towards getting results faster - they've had lots of time to clean up stuff that wasn't ideal in PS2, and among other things, that's one of the big benefits of using fixed function hardware.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There's nothing stopping the API abstraction for building display lists on PS2 - it's just that noone took care of it for the developers. So most of us end up using what we rolled up on our own. And being the metaprogramming whore that I am, I'll probably want to replace those APIs on PSP with something too.

Anyway, obviously PSP hw is geared towards getting results faster - they've had lots of time to clean up stuff that wasn't ideal in PS2, and among other things, that's one of the big benefits of using fixed function hardware.

I am so glad they left the VFPU though: this way you still get some flexibility.

 

[firex]

But can it access a wireless network to take over all machinery and start mass-producing Terminators?

 

[Panajev2001a]

But can it access a wireless network to take over all machinery and start mass-producing Terminators?

Give me some time .