The Abominable Snowman
Member
They won't, but only because they're only producing 200,000 every month -_-mashoutposse said:
PSP Vs. DS : The "wow" factor..
- Thread starter MrparisSM
- Start date
Gek54 said:
It seems like you already disliked him personally to take his post out of context like that. The post you are talking about was in a thread titled "Getting either a Xbox or PS2", so what kind of post were you expecting? Also that wasn't the reason why he said get a Xbox instead of a PS2, it was merely an example of the point he was trying to make... that alot of the older games on the PS2 that were considered "great" are not as good now as they were when they were released... Here's the post for reference:
MrparisSM said:
Also doing the search I found this little Gem of him praising the PSP. I thought all he did was "blindly hateful trolling" which you have yet to produce an example of.
Maybe you just misunderstood the guy, which is easy to do on a web forum.
Anyway, it's late. And I'm tired. But hopefully this will all be rectified soon. you shouldn't be so quick to judge people though.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
No, but Sony's only shipping 200,000 PSPs for it's Japanese launch. It was a bit of a joke, but they are, IMO, undershipping the DS to cause a huge furor.DCharlie said:
It's just another bad joke. I left a hint of bad pun in my last few posts :S (Because I'm watching Whose Line)
"ARM is giving a hand"
"Microphone, or perhaps developers aren't speaking on it"
:S
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Hardknock said:
It was lame becuase he was trying to tell someone not to get a system becuase one of the first games to be released looked dated and was difficult to control...well duh. Dont get a PSX becuase Battle Arena Toshiden looks dated and has bad controls. Dont get a N64 becuase Mission Impossible is weaksauce. Dont get a DC becuase Sega GT looks awefull and has terrible controls. Dont get a cube becuase Need For Speed has bad framerate issues....see the trend? He had the ballz to say dont get a PS2 becuase MGS2 has not aged well? Do you think he forgot about the xbox version that came out and had bad frame rate issues?
Here is a classic post from his truely:
MrparisSM said:
Its incredible how intimidated this guy is of the PSP.
BobbyRobby
Member
I think its important to take into account the handheld market's audience, which is mostly younger children.
My little cousins at Thanksgiving were quite impressed with the DS's unique features, and played the mini-games in SM64DS for hours.(sorry for the anecdotality) If I were to have shown them a PSP with GT4 or Metal Gear Acid, I think they would have lost interest quickly.
Hopefully, the PSP will be able to break into the market of tennage-adult gamers, become a success and coexist with the DS.
My little cousins at Thanksgiving were quite impressed with the DS's unique features, and played the mini-games in SM64DS for hours.(sorry for the anecdotality) If I were to have shown them a PSP with GT4 or Metal Gear Acid, I think they would have lost interest quickly.
Hopefully, the PSP will be able to break into the market of tennage-adult gamers, become a success and coexist with the DS.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
wow - over a 30 day month, that's
6666.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
units a day
SONY IS TEH DEVIL SPOWRN!
it'll be interesting to see how many units they end up having at launch - preorders seem to be selling out fast, but they are all coming in in dribs and drabs.
6666.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
units a day
SONY IS TEH DEVIL SPOWRN!
it'll be interesting to see how many units they end up having at launch - preorders seem to be selling out fast, but they are all coming in in dribs and drabs.
Yes, with "only" a hundred or so custom instructions when you include the coprocessors - and that's not even accounting for emulating the actual coprocessor behaviour and pipelines etc., as well as DMA controller which isn't part of the regular MIPS family either.Shompola said:
Actually looking back, I'd almost argue R5900 in PS2 has less customization done to it.
Believe me, it's a lot higher then that (even though you were sarcastic). Though personally I don't think it's high enough to meet the early demand, but hey people always say that's Sony's strategy to create launch riots etc.The Abominable Snowman said:
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
Not again...
*hold head in hands*
*hold head in hands*
Doom_Bringer
Banned
"Both MrParisSM and seismologist banned? I would kiss the mod who did this. The board is a much better place. Thank YOU!"
agreed, both higly annoying trolls.
agreed, both higly annoying trolls.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
"Believe me, it's a lot higher then that (even though you were sarcastic). Though personally I don't think it's high enough to meet the early demand, but hey people always say that's Sony's strategy to create launch riots etc."
.... i think you missed half a conversation on thursday.
.... i think you missed half a conversation on thursday.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
DCharlie said:"Believe me, it's a lot higher then that (even though you were sarcastic). Though personally I don't think it's high enough to meet the early demand, but hey people always say that's Sony's strategy to create launch riots etc."
.... i think you missed half a conversation on thursday.
Weren't yer drunk on that same day
?Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
DCharlie said:
Wow... should we open a bottle of gin to celebrate that occasion then
?You're not implying that "I" was drunk are you?
Though admitedly, I doubt my brain was at full capacity with the week I had behind me
Anyway I thought we did talk about actual production rates?
Well straight gin tastes like crap, at least use something good like... uhmm... Baccardi?
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
"You're not implying that "I" was drunk are you?
Though admitedly, I doubt my brain was at full capacity with the week I had behind me
Anyway I thought we did talk about actual production rates?"
We did - i think!
But , erm.... i think we have a source difference again!
I assume you made it back alright?
Thursday was pretty fun.
Though admitedly, I doubt my brain was at full capacity with the week I had behind me
Anyway I thought we did talk about actual production rates?
"We did - i think!
But , erm.... i think we have a source difference again!
I assume you made it back alright?
Thursday was pretty fun.
Well uhmm, at least this mystery will be undoubtedly answered when we see the number of units shipped in next few months
And yep got back no prob, I actually managed to navigate Shinjuku at night easier (with half of the station closed there's less room to get lost
).And it was definately fun, wish I could visit longer.
Emulation is not the real thing, it'a watered down experience that only serves to improve knowledge about games. I don't care if technically is possible, emulation never do justice to the real thing, it's just an illusion. I don't change my experience playing the few games I could barely bought on Snes some years ago, with someone that plays 2000 Snes games today. And I won't change my experience playing PSP and Nintendo DS wherever I want, after the excitement of removing the box and see for first time a system, or after opening the case of a new game.
I don't care about emulation, I don't care if you "can do it" I´m just saying that is not the real thing and do no justice to the real thing.
Yes, the touch screen is much more intuitive that an analog stick. When you use the stylus you are seeing what you are doing and you are interacting directly with the screen, that is being intuitive.
For a non-gamer, using the pad is not a natural thing, it´s a indirect and abstract control tha a player have accepted as something natural. Have you tried to teach playing videogames to someone much older than you or much younger? it´s not intuitive, in fact, a D-Pad it´s more intuitive that an Analog stick.
And is not proficency, I´m sorry but the one wrong you is here, no one is speaking about proficency, it´s about being intuitive and natural. The direct contact with the screen is always more intuitive that any pad because the fact that is a direct interface. We are not speaking about how fast or how accurate the game is in each case. "Natural" is not the same that "Proficency", possibly you can be faster and more accurate with an analog pad, but that is not the issue here.
I´m curious about this one, what do you want to proof here? that is my own argument, both systems are addressed to different markets and have different games and experiences. The "little girl subset" just illustrate this point. So, please, tell me what do you want to say with this, that I´m right? ok, thanks
Gaijin To Ronin said:
We're talking about it being intuitive. As stylus control is not the standard, generally to any person who has played videogames it's going to cause obstacles. This has been true; I have had to spend much time getting used to Mario 64 DS before I have finally been able to reach a skill level where I can beat the most challenging tasks. You're simplifying the process too much: Since we touch, and we're always touching things, a touch screen must therefore be natural for games. This is a shakey connection to make and doesn't hold up particularly well under scrutiny.
Gaijin To Ronin said:
To a "non-gamer", and I mean someone who has never played games before, it might inititally seem more intuitive to touch the screen for control. And I'm stretching this out on a limb here just to try to see it from your viewpoint. But, that's not the issue. The issue IS proficiency and skill. A person will take a certain control scheme in the absence of an alternative. In this case, there is no analog stick on the DS for that 'non-gamer' to compare the touch screen with. But, as I said, for absolutely anyone who has ever touched a game in their life - the vast majority of people - it is neither intuitive or natural. And I can attest to this, because I own a DS.
Gaijin To Ronin said:
Proficiency is the central point here! Analog control is simply more proficient. The DS simulated analog control is a step up from D-Pad once you get used to it, but it still cannot compare on any level with the analog control. Part of a gaming control being natural is how easy it is for the gamer to reach the height of skill using it. This is all about proficiency; and clearly D-Pad/Analog win. It's not even in the same galaxy.
Gaijin To Ronin said:
Uh...what? You made it sound as if the wow factor would be greater for DS because little girls want to play Nintendogs. In that, you're wrong. As stated earlier in the thread, little girls would most likely be receiving it as a present. They never needed to be "wowed" in the first place.
Why do you want that? I uderstand that you have problems to see things as someone that doen´t play videogames. And I understand that you prefer the analog control in Mario 64 than the touch pad.
But, I maintain that Mario 64, out of its minigames, it´s the wrong game to be launched with DS. In that game you just use the touch pad as a virtual analog, and it shouldn´t be used like that in my opinion. When I say that touch pannel is something more intuitive I´m speaking about games that are specifically developed to profit this, like Pac Pix, Wario Ware, Baby Mario, Nintendogs or even games that ask you to deal with menus and options.
This type of games are, IMO, for what the Nintendo DS should be used, games developed under the concept of a touch screen. If you think on Mario DS or Metroid, well, they can offer best or worst controls than analog, but they are not more intuitive that them, they are equally abstract and hard to get for non-gamers.
It´s possible that with analog control you can control and sniper or deal with Mario 64 with much more proficency that with a touch pannel, of course. I repeat my point that the touch pannel shoudn´t be viewed as something to choose instead an analog, but as a different tupe of control for a different type of game. So, in the right game, that type of control will be seen as something more natural and interactive.
In that case my apologies for not making clear my point. I don´t think one offers a more general "wow" factor than the other. I say that depends of the user, each system have a very different offering that will drive to a "wow" factor depending of the user.
If I reduce it to my very personal opinion. I was impressed when I tested Pac Pix because I loved the idea to animate something directly drown by me. And I was impressed the first time I played Ridge Racer PSP. But I just give my opinion that no one will "wow" more that other, it just depend of the user, as they are both very different systems that will appeal and amaze to different type of people.
The psp is gonna be the new "it" device for the next year or so, I think. I agree with you, DCharlie, that the DS does offer opportunities to gamers never seen before, but I don't think any developers have really knocked it out of the park with a game that just blows you away with how it takes advantadge of the DS capabilities. It's like baby steps: using the stylus to shoot, drawing pictures for pac man, made in wario, etc. I'd REALLY love to see an RTS on the DS. Maybe real time Advance Wars? I dunno.
And for those of you complaining about the bannings, seismologist had been confirmed as gigadent, one of the most obnoxious, lying trolls in forum history. He deserves to banned just for the sport of it, IMHO.
And for those of you complaining about the bannings, seismologist had been confirmed as gigadent, one of the most obnoxious, lying trolls in forum history. He deserves to banned just for the sport of it, IMHO.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Do you REALLY want the major demographic on your handheld being little girls and typical non-gamers? Because that's who the devs and pubs'll target.
Games for non-gamers friendly doen´t mean they are bad games, Feel the Magic it´s a good example. I doesn´t think the system is designed to appeal "little-girls", but the opposite, "little girls" can be attracted to the features of DS so while I believe it can grabs more of this market, the core of any system is always the gamer. If you don´t get the attention of the usual player and the "hardcore", without it it´s not possible to sell your system.
And the usual Nintendo goal is to make "universal" games, if universal game means things as fun a Baby Mario or Wario Ware, I´m for it. When I speak about "targets" I suppose that DS will appeal to "little girls" "non-gamers" and gamers as well. There is no absolute thing when someone speaks about targets, it´s just orientative . As far as there is a good ammount of unit sales, there will be a good variety of games, including ones for more experienced players like Advance Wars.
If the launch third party games "suck" because they are targeted to non-gamers, will you say the same when the launch third party line of PSP games "sucks"? I will be waiting (but you can be sure that the japanese third party launch for PSP is not much better that the DS one).
Third party launch titles are not used to be good, in DS, PSP or Playstation 24, it´s a rule of this industry.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Dude, I wasn't serious. I was sleepy last night, and STILL got you to curse. I rock :lolkpop100 said:
MrparisSM said:
Wow factor isn't going to move large quantities of a $250.00 handheld. Due to pricing and technical reasons the PSP won't be challenging the core GBA and DS market anytime, ever.
That market is the under 18 crowd.
That market is 75% of the current handheld market.
That market buys approximate 1 game per handheld. The low attach rate is due to those kids sharing those little indestructible carts.
That market will not be allowed to carry around $50.00 optical media in their pockets and backpacks.
That market will not be purchasing handheld with a 4 hour battery charge.
That market will not be purchasing a 250.00 (with mem stick and case (you want to carry around that screen without a case?)) game machine.
That game is over. PSP lost due to never trying to win.
The DS on the other hand can be made to be sold to this market. Next XMas, with a 99.00 to 129.00 dollar price point, I see the DS outselling the GBA SP.
The only questions at this point:
Can the PSP capture a sizeable portion of the existing 25% of the market that is over 18?
Can the PSP expand the handheld gaming market?
Can the PSP increase the current low game to handheld attach ratio in this market to justify larger development costs for that powerful PSP GPU?
If the PSP fails to accomplish any three of these goals, it probably fails as a gaming platform. Its a HUGE risk for Sony. The backwards compatibility of the DS protects it against these risks. Nintentdo can safely sell it to the 25% of the market that is over 18 and to those under 18 that have the money. Sony is essentially hoping that a market shows up for this machine. The odds are against it.
I wouldn't be suprised if 3rd party devs are already curtailing support for the PSP given the low 500,000 Japanese machine launch figure. Sony is already waving a white flag. They don't want to take the huge bath on this hardware.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I don't get it bryanbr: You say Sony is already waving a white flag when Nintendo only plans to ship ~5 million DS' by the end of March. Sony expects to sell 3 million PSP's by the end of March, and that's not considering the huge lead time the DS has, and the PSP just launching in the US. How is that waving the white flag? Timespan-for-timespan it looks like Sony expects the PSP to outstrip the DS in sales in that period.
I won't address most of the rest of your post though, since it all is baseless, stupid assumption. When the PSP launches in North America, you REALLY expect it to sell for 250? Lemme put it this way: When PSP price in yen was announced, the exchange rate put it at about 165 bucks. Since then it's rised to about 185 bucks. This is the norm for products launching in the east first. The East always pays higher exchange prices. This has been the case for most consoles, and the only exception I can think of is the Xbox. In Japan, the price of the PS2 converted is roughly 192 bucks (19,800 yen). Do we pay 200 dollars for the PS2? No, we pay 150. I expect that the PSP will be 150 when it releases as well. Don't be foolish.
$250. :lol :lol :side hurts from :lol 'ing so hard
a 32MB card and some pawn shop extras are enough for 100 bucks? Is that what you're saying?
500K or .5 million launch in Japan is a lowballing figure, but I bet it'll cause mass PSP hysteria as people clamor to buy it. Sony did the same thing for the PS2. claimed to have over 2 million units ready for launch, then it changed into 1.5 million, then into 980K. The PS2 had 4+ million preorders as well.
I won't address most of the rest of your post though, since it all is baseless, stupid assumption. When the PSP launches in North America, you REALLY expect it to sell for 250? Lemme put it this way: When PSP price in yen was announced, the exchange rate put it at about 165 bucks. Since then it's rised to about 185 bucks. This is the norm for products launching in the east first. The East always pays higher exchange prices. This has been the case for most consoles, and the only exception I can think of is the Xbox. In Japan, the price of the PS2 converted is roughly 192 bucks (19,800 yen). Do we pay 200 dollars for the PS2? No, we pay 150. I expect that the PSP will be 150 when it releases as well. Don't be foolish.
$250. :lol :lol :side hurts from :lol 'ing so hard
a 32MB card and some pawn shop extras are enough for 100 bucks? Is that what you're saying?
500K or .5 million launch in Japan is a lowballing figure, but I bet it'll cause mass PSP hysteria as people clamor to buy it. Sony did the same thing for the PS2. claimed to have over 2 million units ready for launch, then it changed into 1.5 million, then into 980K. The PS2 had 4+ million preorders as well.
shpankey
not an idiot
Well for me the PSP is incredible and definately "wow"ed me. I am planning on buying it as soon as it's available. Whereas the DS does not "wow" me at all. In fact, I talked my daughter out of one and got her to wait for the PSP after showing her some of the PSP stuff (pictures of the system and some of the games and technical details and abilities). The PSP is gorgeous and has convinced me to buy it.
Why do you let it bother you so much? Are you Sony's personal defender? I've never seen you defending Xbox or Gamecube when the trolls come out... so why do you take it so personal when someone trolls Sony? To be honest, that stuff is pretty small time considering what I've seen towards the other systems.Gek54 said:
gamergirly
Member
When you walk into your local electronics store, what will make you put aside the PSP from all the other gadgets and high tech electronics there?
The Abominable Snowman said:
It's true that Japan usually pays more than us for their gaming fix. But if The Nintendo DS is any indication(which is selling in Japan for like $135 I think?) and selling $150 here. The PSP may follow that same trend and decide to sell the PSP at $200 which would be the base unit without the extras. So yes $250 for the package deal is not out of the question I think.
The Abominable Snowman said:
Did you see what you get with the The 185.00 dollar PSP barebones kit? You get a powercord and a cardboard box. Where are you going to save your games to? How are you going to protect that screen?
The low ball 185.00 dollar price, which is what is converted to at the time of the announcement, is a PR price. It was put out for purposes of HYPE. A number for fanboys to slobber over. The real price of the PSP, which includes a memstick, case, etc, two essential accessories was around 250.00. Why don't you price those parts separately and get back to me on how much extra you will be paying for the PSP?
What exactly about the well known analysis of the state of the handheld market is baseless assumption? You apparently can't accept well known facts (75% of the market is under 18).
I will tell it to you real simple like, cause you don't seem to be understanding much else:
<b>Kids won't be buying the PSP and enough adults won't buy it to make the platform feasible.</b>
Due to lower cost of development GBA and to a certain extent DS games can be profitable with unit sales in the mere 10s of thousands. That just isn't possible with the PSP.
After the two to three million hardcore handheld gaming fans worldwide have spent their 400.00 dollars on one PSP and a few games, and no one else is interested, the PSP will die a horribly grissly, money sucking death. Best case scenario is a long period of hibernation for the PSP. In five to six years time it might have a chance if they have:
Fixed the battery problem
Reduced the price to 99.00
Introduced unscratcheable, unbreakable optical media
Convince millions of adults to stop playing XBox 3 and PS4 to play a handheld
Now given that they won't be able to convince millions of adults to stop playing XBox 2 and PS2 to play a PSP, I don't see anyone doing the same for XBox 3 and PS 4.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
bryanbr said:
Um, the PS1 was also thrust into a largely teen/pre-teen gaming market where carts and relatively low console prices ruled the roost. Look at the end result of that endeavor.
The more I look at the situation today, the more I am convinced that history will repeat itself.
shpankey said:
Im not a sony defendor and I am not the only who is happy that these trolls are banned. You know that if they were doing the same toward any other systems they would have still been banned. Show me who has a history of trolling worse than these two. By the way I have defened GC and Xbox several times.
...anyways, back to NFSU2.