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[Skitso]

Now that I've had time to test a few PRO patched games, I have to admit the PSSR resolved image has quite a lot of negatives on top of all the positives like sharper image with more visible detail. I play with a 83" LG C1 with about 3m viewing distance, so the screen is large, but still - I can't help but feel dissapointed with the amount of shimmering and pixel crawl in almost all the games I've tested (SM2, TLOU1 and 2) Sure, there was some of it before, but it seems to be a really common issue now with PSSR, which I thought would have removed almost all this kind of image quality issues. Now it seems I just have a sharper image but a less stable one.

Am I the only one suffering from this? What are your personal experience of PSSR image stability and quality?

 

[V1LÆM]

I heard PSSR is the best AI upscaling solution to exist /s

Good luck...

seriously though it's Sony's first implementation it's going to have issues compared to a mature solution like DLSS.

 

[cyberheater]

Have you calibrated your to set relative to sharpening etc…

 

[Skitso]

Have you calibrated your to set relative to sharpening etc…

Yes, I have all the optimum settings and Calman calibrated colors.

 

[Bojji]

It's not exactly pssr related but all LG OLED a should have sharpening at 0.

 

[mitch1971]

3m from an 83 inch! Dude, you are probably seeing the shimmer from the atoms making up your tv.

 

[LordOcidax]

I heard PSSR is the best AI upscaling solution to exist /s

Good luck...

seriously though it's Sony's first implementation it's going to have issues compared to a mature solution like DLSS.

I heard that PS5 Pro hardware is going to be used to reach Mars.

 

[Skitso]

It's not exactly pssr related but all LG OLED a should have sharpening at 0.

Absolutely. I have it set to 0.

 

[cyberheater]

Yes, I have all the optimum settings and Calman calibrated colors.

Fantastic. Must look stunning.

 

[TrebleShot]

Yeah it's like any of the other upscalers overall it's better and impressive but as od v1 there's some improvements to come.

I also think there's already different versions of it . Some dev can't remember who was saying they are using a "newer version".

Give it a few months and I'm sure they will have a new version again.

 

[Bojji]

Absolutely. I have it set to 0.

I saw your previous post. Personally I hate sharpening.

In some games they clearly overdid sharpening, but most people have reaction: sharper = better.

 

[Bartski]

Now that I've had time to test a few PRO patched games, I have to admit the PSSR resolved image has quite a lot of negatives on top of all the positives like sharper image with more visible detail. I play with a 83" LG C1 with about 3m viewing distance, so the screen is large, but still - I can't help but feel dissapointed with the amount of shimmering and pixel crawl in almost all the games I've tested (SM2, TLOU1 and 2) Sure, there was some of it before, but it seems to be a really common issue now with PSSR, which I thought would have removed almost all this kind of image quality issues. Now it seems I just have a sharper image but a less stable one.

Am I the only one suffering from this? What are your personal experience of PSSR image stability and quality?

what's pixel crawl? Most issues I've seen don't seem to be a result of the sharpening but are more related to lack of fidelity at the source, except TLOU2 completely broken soft shadows in some areas.

 

[bundylove]

Not sure to believe everything i read here from questionable user accounts, but your viewing distance should be at 4meters minimum.

Also pssr will improve over time and once we get games that are built with pssr in mind and not just applied on top of existing games with existing IQ enhance features , we will see much better results.

I dont have my pro yet, should come tomorrow so i cant really comment but i hope i will get a better IQ on my 85 inch as thats the whole reason i bought the pro.

 

[Vick]

Only two PSSR games I've tried are TLOU Part I and RE4R, and I only noticed it currently doesn't resolve well certain alpha effects (dust 2D layers, some water splashes), as they blur and trail a little compared to native. I hope to see this addressed in the future because I would otherwise consider this kind of image perfect to be honest.
Stability on my end was much, much, much improved over previous TAA + sharpening modes and in case of Part I PSSR is actually solving, not creating, stability issues present in other modes after the latest ND patch.

I mean on a ''83 from that close there's no way in hell you wouldn't notice PSSR being way more stable than the other two Modes in Part I, stability on my panel felt absolutely insane, in general but especially in comparison.

I apologize if I already posted these multiple times, but I've personally never seen this kind of IQ at 60fps on a graphically demanding game. Saying I was reeeally impressed by what I saw on my calibrated Pana would be an understatement.

Spoiler: TLOU Uncompressed Screenshots

Max grain is enabled on all of these screenshots unfortunately as it does impact the image a little, but that's how I like the game to look. It's a hassle to open full-size pictures from Postimg, but it's possible to see them full size via GAF by clicking on them and zooming, here an example of 1:1 detail:

1:1

1:1

So OP kind of reads as opposite of my experience because main reason I was so impressed by PSSR is due to how it resolves issues.
Below comparison was made from compressed jpg screenshots:

Hair in particular:

But also foliage is literally night and day in Part I.

but are more related to lack of fidelity at the source, except TLOU2 completely broken soft shadows in some areas.

Are those broken shadows in Part II solved while playing in the other Modes?

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

I can't help but feel dissapointed with the amount of shimmering and pixel crawl in almost all the games I've tested (SM2, TLOU1 and 2) Sure, there was some of it before, but it seems to be a really common issue now with PSSR

Only PS5 Poor here, but what interesting to me is do you think it has more iq issues then before? or it's the same but you're disappointed it isn't gone for good?
Because if it something new then it's troubling.

 

[diffusionx]

I still remember the first time I loaded a game with DLSS, I think it was control, and was actually disappointed about the quality of the output. The point is this tech is great but it’s not magic. there will be flaws and it’s not perfect. But even native 4K can have these issues depending on the engine, the way effects are processed, so on and so forth.

 

[Bartski]

Only two PSSR games I've tried are TLOU Part I and RE4R, and I only noticed it currently doesn't resolve well certain alpha effects (dust 2D layers, some water splashes), as they blur and trail a little compared to native. I hope to see this addressed in the future because I would otherwise consider this kind of image perfect to be honest.
Stability on my end was much, much, much improved over previous TAA + sharpening modes and in case of Part I PSSR is actually solving, not creating, stability issues present in other modes after the latest ND patch.

I mean on a ''83 from that close there's no way in hell you wouldn't notice PSSR being way more stable than the other two Modes in Part I, stability on my panel felt absolutely insane, in general but especially in comparison.

I apologize if I already posted these multiple times, but I've personally never seen this kind of IQ at 60fps on a graphically demanding game. Saying I was reeeally impressed by what I saw on my calibrated Pana would be an understatement.

Spoiler: TLOU Uncompressed Screenshots

Max grain is enabled on all of these screenshots unfortunately as it does impact the image a little, but that's how I like the game to look. It's a hassle to open full-size pictures from Postimg, but it's possible to see them full size via GAF by clicking on them and zooming, here an example of 1:1 detail:

1:1

1:1

So OP kind of reads as opposite of my experience because main reason I was so impressed by PSSR is due to how it resolves issues.
Below comparison was made from compressed jpg screenshots:

Hair in particular:

But also foliage is literally night and day in Part I.


Are those broken shadows in Part II solved while playing in the other Modes?

no, there is some shimmering in both, however much less so. More prominent in Fidelity due to overall shadow resolution. Pro mode just looks broken. Should be clear even at this shit video q:





Also can someone explain what is going on with my C2 framerate counter? Pro mode swings between 85-100 fps, performance 110-120 but in fidelity mode in VRR stays locked on 120 (119 to be exact) whatever I do. How is that possible? At this fps I can't really tell by eye, all 3 modes look super smooth... I don't think it's because the game runs fidelity mode better than performance, is there something wrong with my tv settings so the overlay is inaccurate?

 

[Skitso]

Only PS5 Poor here, but what interesting to me is do you think it has more iq issues then before? or it's the same but you're disappointed it isn't gone for good?
Because if it something new then it's troubling.

Not more IQ issues, but maybe more apparent than before as the image as a whole is so high quality. If people want to see what I mean, it's easy to see in Ellie's garage apartment at the very beginning of TLOU2. Look at the speaker grills of the cassette recorder that sits on her table. This kind of "sub pixel moire" is visible much more than before and is apparent in may places throughout the game. (And other games like Spider Man 2)

This game also has other PRO specific visual issues that are not tied to PSSR. For example in the chapter "Descent", where Abby and Lev descent a huge dark skyscraper, there seems to be 1 pixel high gaps in some doors where you can see bright white void outside now that the image is so high definition. The same gaps have probably always been there, but the lower resolution has masked them almost completely invisible. Stuff like this happen when new tech gets patched in an old game without proper QA.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Skitso]

Not sure to believe everything i read here from questionable user accounts, but your viewing distance should be at 4meters minimum.

Also pssr will improve over time and once we get games that are built with pssr in mind and not just applied on top of existing games with existing IQ enhance features , we will see much better results.

I dont have my pro yet, should come tomorrow so i cant really comment but i hope i will get a better IQ on my 85 inch as thats the whole reason i bought the pro.

You calling me questionable?

Regarding the viewing distance, according to the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers (SMPTE), for movie experience you'll want the screen to fill 40° of your field of view. With a 83" that means approximately 2,6 meters. Not sure where you got the 4 meters, but I'm pretty sure I know my stuff well enough so you don't need to lecture me.

 

[proandrad]

I heard PSSR is the best AI upscaling solution to exist /s

Good luck...

seriously though it's Sony's first implementation it's going to have issues compared to a mature solution like DLSS.

I hope Sony figured out a better solution to update PSSR every time it gets an update. It would suck to wait and hope developers patch their games to the latest version everytime. At least on pc you can go in most games and manually update to the latest version of dlss.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

No issues, but I don't look for them.

 

[squidilix]

I don't know how Sony will we update PSSR issue on somes games...
Releasing via console update or per games?

 

[rofif]

Can't say I found issues so far.
Maybe a tiny bit of edge shimmer in distance or rebirth.
Worst one is Alan Wake 2 but I think it some other Remedy problem and not pssr

 

[bundylove]

You calling me questionable?

Regarding the viewing distance, according to the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers (SMPTE), for movie experience you'll want the screen to fill 40° of your fiel of view. With a 83" that means approximately 2,6 meters. Not sure where you got the 4 meters, but I'm pretty sure I know my stuff well enough so you don't need to lecture me.

I do yes. I call you questionable.

Your recommended distance is 3.6 meters. But still not optimal.

My 85 inch is almost 4 meters.

But good luck sitting 1.6 from your screen as per your sites minimum distance.

With my qn95c 85 inch, if i would sit that close my retina would burn out as my screen peak brightness is 4000 nits.

 

[Vick]

no, there is some shimmering in both, however much less so. More prominent in Fidelity due to overall shadow resolution. Pro mode just looks broken. Should be clear even at this shit video q:





Also can someone explain what is going on with my C2 framerate counter? Pro mode swings between 85-100 fps, performance 110-120 but in fidelity mode in VRR stays locked on 120 (119 to be exact) whatever I do. How is that possible? At this fps I can't really tell by eye, all 3 modes look super smooth... I don't think it's because the game runs fidelity mode better than performance, is there something wrong with my tv settings so the overlay is inaccurate?

Santa Barbara is absolutely and completely broken.

If it shimmers as well on other modes it's the TLOU Part II code being broken. Santa Barbara shadows were not only stable but looked entirely different on PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5 Remaster before the latest patch. They had the ultra-soft filtering for distant shadows to simulate PCSS, this is not the case anymore.

They need to fix this crap, at the moment best version of the game is unquestionably unpatched disc version.

 

[Skitso]

But good luck sitting 1.6 from your screen as per your sites minimum distance.

With my qn95c 85 inch, if i would sit that close my retina would burn out as my screen peak brightness is 4000 nits.

I have 3,1 meters viewing distance for my 83" TV. It's more than what SMPTE (which is, you know, the association of the movie engineers that bears a tad more credibility than rtings.com) recommends.

My OLED is ~800 nits peak so I'm fine,

 

[Killer8]

It's not exactly pssr related but all LG OLED a should have sharpening at 0.

This is false. Sharpening at 10 will do nothing to a 4K image. Only values above 10 will add additional sharpening in 4K.

The only thing sharpening up to 10 on LG OLED does is that if the TV is upscaling content lower than 4K, it will engage an anti-aliasing like edge-smoothing.

Sharpening values below 10 will simply be ignored if not.

 

[Lysandros]

I think PSSR might be coming with a standard sharpening pass enabled by defaut which can accentuate stability problems by causing an overshapened image depending on the application. If this pass is not needed it shouldn't too difficult for the developers to disable it leaving the pure PSSR reconstruction algorithm to provide a more temporally stable image like in Ratchet's PRO enhancement. Not every PSSR implementation is oversharpened.

 

[Senua]

Dude is like the hallway monitor, poor Bojji

 

[Skitso]

I think PSSR might be coming with a standard sharpening pass enabled by defaut which can accentuate stability problems by causing an overshapened image depending on the application. If this pass is not needed it shouldn't too difficult for the developers to disable it leaving the pure PSSR reconstruction algorithm to provide a more temporally stable image like in Ratchet's PRO enhancement. Not every PSSR implementation is oversharpened.

Exactly. Rift Apart has the best PSSR implementation I've seen yet. (Haven't tested Forbidden West yet) Might have to do with the art style too...

 

[bundylove]

I have 3,1 meters viewing distance for my 83" TV. It's more than what SMPTE (which is, you know, the association of the movie engineers that bears a tad more credibility than rtings.com) recommends.

My OLED is ~800 nits peak so I'm fine,

Well i will see it for myself tomorrow.
I guess right now my hopes are high so a bit biased but man if it looks like shit i will be pissed

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Now that I've had time to test a few PRO patched games, I have to admit the PSSR resolved image has quite a lot of negatives on top of all the positives like sharper image with more visible detail. I play with a 83" LG C1 with about 3m viewing distance, so the screen is large, but still - I can't help but feel dissapointed with the amount of shimmering and pixel crawl in almost all the games I've tested (SM2, TLOU1 and 2) Sure, there was some of it before, but it seems to be a really common issue now with PSSR, which I thought would have removed almost all this kind of image quality issues. Now it seems I just have a sharper image but a less stable one.

Am I the only one suffering from this? What are your personal experience of PSSR image stability and quality?

in lou be sure to disable film grain

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sorry OP but you are wrong.

The image is far more temporally stable than non-PSSR modes. Switching TLOU modes around is night and day how much less shimmering and noise there is.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I do wish ND would let us turn off chromatic aberration in their games though, not really part of the point here but it still needs to be said lol.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

It's not exactly pssr related but all LG OLED a should have sharpening at 0.

LG oIed sharpening does nothing at 10 for 4k images and does anti aliasing at 10 for lower res content. Don't turn it up higher if you don't want over sharpening.

 

[Skitso]

Sorry OP but you are wrong.

The image is far more temporally stable than non-PSSR modes. Switching TLOU modes around is night and day how much less shimmering and noise there is.

I'm not wrong. PSSR reduces a lot of IQ issues and cleans the image in general, but on the other hand also amplifies certain negatives a lot. Did you check the Ellie's cassette recorder speaker grill I mentioned above to understand the issue I'm talking about?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm not wrong. PSSR reduces a lot of IQ issues and cleans the image in general, but on the other hand also amplifies certain negatives a lot. Did you check the Ellie's cassette recorder speaker grill I mentioned above to understand the issue I'm talking about?

There may be some tradeoffs for sure, I don't want to discount it, but they are minor compared to the gains achieved. Overall it looks MUCH better than previous solutions. Hopefully they iron them out with time, but even if they don't I won't particularly care. I'm immensely impressed with current state of PSSR.

 

[gothmog]

I noticed a few things but I wouldn't say I was "suffering" from anything other than better framerates. I'm sure things will get better as things progress in both patches and better training data.

 

[Skitso]

There may be some tradeoffs for sure, I don't want to discount it, but they are minor compared to the gains achieved. Overall it looks MUCH better than previous solutions. Hopefully they iron them out with time, but even if they don't I won't particularly care. I'm immensely impressed with current state of PSSR.

I Agree. I think I just personally prefer consistently average image over almost perfect image where certain issues stick out like a sore thumb. Hmm.. Dunno, maybe I'm overreacting and just looking too much for faults.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Comes with the territory when adopting a new tech that just got released. DLSS sucked ass in it's infancy, bet they'll be able to improve PSSR with due time.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Also can someone explain what is going on with my C2 framerate counter? Pro mode swings between 85-100 fps, performance 110-120 but in fidelity mode in VRR stays locked on 120 (119 to be exact) whatever I do. How is that possible? At this fps I can't really tell by eye, all 3 modes look super smooth... I don't think it's because the game runs fidelity mode better than performance, is there something wrong with my tv settings so the overlay is inaccurate?

It's running at 40fps in Fidelity and using HFR mode to output at 120 so it updates every third frame, it's a hack basically, but it will give you better input lag and better motion clarity

 

[balls of snow]

One of the reason I wont get a tv more than 65 inch. Of course you would notice pixel imperfections on a tv the size of an imax.

 

[Bojji]

LG oIed sharpening does nothing at 10 for 4k images and does anti aliasing at 10 for lower res content. Don't turn it up higher if you don't want over sharpening.

I heard that too. Some gaffer did tests for AA, I did too and it helped with 1080p PS4 games when console output was set to 1080p.

But I don't think it's proven that it doesn't sharpen 4k source at all. Vincent from HDTV tests didn't believe this and always recommended 0.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think you can really see the difference with PiSSeR vs FSR when it comes to hair detail and foliage. Other stuff not as much, but it is really great how it improves FSR's shit coverage on hair.

 

[Skitso]

 

[DenchDeckard]

Whats the issue here? the glass windows in the distance?

 

[twilo99]

Keep in mind that this is basically 1.0 software so things will only get better

 

[GHG]

Unless someone with a capture card is able to reproduce this then it's an issue with your TV (and one of your settings).

If I don't turn off all the AI image processing on my Philips OLED then I get issues that appear exactly like that. Are you sure you have all the AI image processing crap turned off?

 

[Bartski]

It's running at 40fps in Fidelity and using HFR mode to output at 120 so it updates every third frame, it's a hack basically, but it will give you better input lag and better motion clarity

So I should get an accurate readout when turning off HFR? Ok I'll try that.

Also, in Bloodborne the overlay shows me locked 60 fps... that game has no HFR setting, what gives?