Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

It’s likely PSSR mucking it up. ML based upscalers like PSSR/DLSS/XeSS are not always fire and forget. Developers need to actually address any issues that crop up when using these upscalers. Usually there are no or minor issues but every so often you get problems like these.

While PSSR has some minor issues with stability, this example is rather egregious and is on the developer to solve.

But if I'm not mistaken, SH2 hasn't even received any update yet. It does not have any PSSR enhancements to the best of my understanding, so far at least. It should, in theory, be the same as the base PS5 version.

 

[Zathalus]

But if I'm not mistaken, SH2 hasn't even received any update yet. It does not have any PSSR enhancements to the best of my understanding, so far at least. It should, in theory, be the same as the base PS5 version.

I think it launched with support for the Pro and PSSR. References to PSSR are found in the PC games files and the game shows Pro enhanced on the store. It’s also the only reason I can think of why the Pro and base image quality differ so much.

 

[Skitso]

But if I'm not mistaken, SH2 hasn't even received any update yet. It does not have any PSSR enhancements to the best of my understanding, so far at least. It should, in theory, be the same as the base PS5 version.

Yeah, I think this is the case regarding SH2. Remedy for example patched Control to be compatible with Pro so there might be some issues with some specific rendering techniques...

 

[Skitso]

I wonder if Blooper team is even aware of this issue. Is there any way to contact them (make bug report etc.)?

 

[adamsapple]

I wonder if Blooper team is even aware of this issue. Is there any way to contact them (make bug report etc.)?

Social media would probably be the fastest way (Twitter / X)

They were quick to patch the Prison area issue that was breaking the game after the last update, so hopefully they look at this quick too.

 

[Skitso]

Ok now that the PS5 Pro IQ issues are on mainstream media, who still wants to question or ridicule my concerns?

Concerns I had 9 days ago...

 

[diffusionx]

The problem isn't PSSR, it's the implementation of it in some games. Because other games look great.

I'm glad there is an outcry, because it means devs will fix their shit, and I don't blame people for complaining, because they bought these new machines for this purpose (including myself), but at the same time, I am not worried, angry, or whatever.

 

[Dibils2k]

i put on Miles Morales and i noticed alot shimmering in performance pro mode when standing still, now i am wondering if its always been like that even on the normal PS5 version or am i just too focused on it. overall though the game does look pretty sharp

 

[Skitso]

I've now started playing Starwars Outlaws after it got the latest big patch, and unfortunately it too has some absolutely horrible shimmering/flickering issues. It seems to be tied to RT reflections and dynamic lighting and the game can look fine for long stretches and then the IQ can break completely in certain lighting conditions.

Has it always been like this or did the latest patch break it? I don't remember seeing such issues in Youtube videos I checked before buying the game, so that was a big disappointment for me.

BTW, the game is a lot better than people make it to be and I've enjoyed the first few hours quite a bit. It's fun and authentic but still quite unpolished and these visual issues definitely bring the experience down on Pro.

 

[Dibils2k]

so been playing more games and yeah unfortunately so far PSSR has been poor in nearly all games, Stellar blade was the only one that really looked clean and sharp but now DF reveals the base resolution is 1800p so it makes it alot less impressive, PSSR was supposed to help low resolutions but its doing the opposite atm

hopefully Sony can improve this cause otherwise its such a failure

 

[SappYoda]

I don't think this a PSSR issue. I think it's caused by the ray tracing solution.

 

[Skitso]

I don't think this a PSSR issue. I think it's caused by the ray tracing solution.

Yeah, plausible.

There should always be a mode with higher resolution and better fps without RT available IMO.

 

[Skitso]

I reported the issue on Ubisoft's online bug report site.

People should probably do the same to raise issues visibility:

Bug Reporter | Ubisoft

www.ubisoft.com

 

[Bojji]

I think this thread needs separation of issues:

- IQ issues issues caused by pssr
- shimmering caused by RT and denoisers

Games with RT lighting have shimmering (or "boiling") even on pc, that's the nature of technology. Nvidia RR can fix this to some extend but only some games support it.

 

[RoboFu]

Yeah it's IQ is probably in the 30s. It's pretty dumb.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

The problem isn't PSSR, it's the implementation of it in some games. Because other games look great.

I'm glad there is an outcry, because it means devs will fix their shit, and I don't blame people for complaining, because they bought these new machines for this purpose (including myself), but at the same time, I am not worried, angry, or whatever.

Bravo, I'm in the same spot, I'm not worried nor angry but, at the same time, we spent 800 big ones for the Pro and tbh, the "gains" at the moment aren't great since there's fewer games that do a good job than those that don't (and there aren't many games Pro enhanced to begin with).
PSSR implementation for MOST games seems to be broken/not implemented well, it's going to get better, sure but the thing is that we got the console NOW.

So, again, I'm neither angry nor worried but... disappointed.since I expected something better.

Cheers

 

[NeonGhost]

I wonder if black ops 6 will get fixed

 

[Topher]

so been playing more games and yeah unfortunately so far PSSR has been poor in nearly all games, Stellar blade was the only one that really looked clean and sharp but now DF reveals the base resolution is 1800p so it makes it alot less impressive, PSSR was supposed to help low resolutions but its doing the opposite atm

hopefully Sony can improve this cause otherwise its such a failure

The higher the base resolution, the better the result. That's just how AI upscaling works. This does not make the PS5 Pro improvements for Stellar Blade over base PS5 any less impressive. The difference is clear and it is impressive.

Regardless, the lesson devs should learn from games like Stellar Blade is to get the highest resolution first before anything else.

 

[Bojji]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

 

[Skitso]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

 

[Synless]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

I am playing this game right now and that shit would have been highly noticeable to me. I’ll check here in a few.

 

[Hookshot]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

Maybe that's how plants behave in a post apocalyptic land.

 

[Bojji]

I am playing this game right now and that shit would have been highly noticeable to me. I’ll check here in a few.

Maybe something triggers this behavior? DF didn't report anything like this.

 

[adamsapple]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

huh ... surprised DF's video overlooked this. That's pretty easily noticeable.

 

[Synless]

Maybe something triggers this behavior? DF didn't report anything like this.

Yeah, I’m looking at distances with high foliage and not seeing that shit. Maybe it’s in that area? I’m not that far yet. But it’s not in any of the several areas I’ve traveled to. I’m playing on Pro mode, probably 5-6 hours in and that hasn’t happened once.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

i put on Miles Morales and i noticed alot shimmering in performance pro mode when standing still, now i am wondering if its always been like that even on the normal PS5 version or am i just too focused on it. overall though the game does look pretty sharp

The Spiderman games on Pro have all taken a slight hit to iq. There is aliasing now that never existed in the pristine temporal solution they used to use. The trade off is that now we have higher fps and more RT effects which is cool but it's a shame they couldn't pull off both.

Spiderman though is leagues better than what Polyphony just put out on Pro in the new RT/pssr mode ...disappointing result coming from them.

I think it's important to note though that even games with iq/instability issues with PSSR are looking sharper and resolving more detail then they were previously. For example the much maligned AW2/Jedi Survivor/SH2 are all looking sharper on Pro in both Perf and Quality modes, it's just that in some scenes the artifacting is noisier now ..I'm almost positive I'm correct on this it's still disappointing the extent of issues but the games are also all resolving more detail..I think it's easy to forget exactly how things looked on base ps5

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I don't think this a PSSR issue. I think it's caused by the ray tracing solution.

I think so too like 90% of the "pssr" issues are actually "pssr interacting with RT" issues

 

[Bojji]

huh ... surprised DF's video overlooked this. That's pretty easily noticeable.

They usually don't cover whole games, mostly initial areas.

Someone that is in that spot in game can confirm or disprove it.

 

[twilo99]

I think so too like 90% of the "pssr" issues are actually "pssr interacting with RT" issues

Turning off RT is easy enough?

 

[Bojji]

Turning off RT is easy enough?

Depending on the game, silent hill 2 was made with lumen in mind so you can't just disable it completely.

 

[Topher]

Fake, true, manipulation?

I have no idea but this one shows the same issues Jedi and SH2 have with Pro mode, no RT in this game.

I have issues with DLSS in one specific area in Dragon's Dogma 2 that I haven't seen anyone talk about. Crazy flickering with foliage shadows. Anecdotal instances of an issue is a thing.

 

[Bojji]

I have issues with DLSS in one specific area in Dragon's Dogma 2 that I haven't seen anyone talk about. Crazy flickering with foliage shadows. Anecdotal instances of an issue is a thing.

Confirmed in the other thread

Digital Foundry: Stellar Blade - PS5 Pro Review - One Of The Best Upgrades We've Seen

Anyone play the Nier DLC? Is it just collecting cans for the stuff in Emil's store for the $10 ? 10$ bigger boobs. Fairest exchange ever done

www.neogaf.com

 

[proandrad]

Confirmed in the other thread

Digital Foundry: Stellar Blade - PS5 Pro Review - One Of The Best Upgrades We've Seen

Anyone play the Nier DLC? Is it just collecting cans for the stuff in Emil's store for the $10 ? 10$ bigger boobs. Fairest exchange ever done

www.neogaf.com

Reminds me of the Horizon:FW performance mode before it was fixed. Guerrilla games spent months trying fixing the upscaler to get rid of the crazy flicking the foliage had. This is probably the reason they were the only Sony 1st party title to get Pro enhanced but no PSSR. It's current iteration just does not work well in some games.

 

[Topher]

Confirmed in the other thread

Digital Foundry: Stellar Blade - PS5 Pro Review - One Of The Best Upgrades We've Seen

Anyone play the Nier DLC? Is it just collecting cans for the stuff in Emil's store for the $10 ? 10$ bigger boobs. Fairest exchange ever done

www.neogaf.com

I wasn't doubting that this happened. The video shows the flickering. Found the issue with DLSS that I was referring to.

 

[SportsFan581]

These things seem to get better with time, this will probably be a major point of focus for them going forward (assuming that this tech is a big part of PS6).

 

[Skitso]

I just wonder in Sony engineers are even aware of the issue...

 

[YCoCg]

Just to bump this, as expected it seems to be an issue that can be fixed, in the latest DF Weekly Tom talks about a discussion with a tech engineer who worked on Black Ops 6 and in a very surprising result he states he "fixed it in half a day" but it's currently in patch certification:

 

[NeonGhost]

Just to bump this, as expected it seems to be an issue that can be fixed, in the latest DF Weekly Tom talks about a discussion with a tech engineer who worked on Black Ops 6 and in a very surprising result he states he "fixed it in half a day" but it's currently in patch certification:

It’s weird about that black ops 6 patch that last patch fixed the issues in zombies but not the campaign why didn’t they release it all at once

 

[Bojji]

Just to bump this, as expected it seems to be an issue that can be fixed, in the latest DF Weekly Tom talks about a discussion with a tech engineer who worked on Black Ops 6 and in a very surprising result he states he "fixed it in half a day" but it's currently in patch certification:

Fixed by removing PSSR or fixing how it behaves in the game?

 

[Rob_27]

The Last of Us Part 1 in the hydro electric dam has picture issues with PSSR. Mainly the rotating parts

 

[YCoCg]

or fixing how it behaves in the game?

Seems to be this one, hinted at changing where the passes are done to eliminate the issue.

 

[octos]

Seems to be this one, hinted at changing where the passes are done to eliminate the issue.

Apparently PSSR does upscaling but no denoising, so in their case there were white pixels that would randomly appear because of that.
So, either the programmer changed the order of the passes as you said, or added his own denoising.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

I think this thread needs separation of issues:

- IQ issues issues caused by pssr
- shimmering caused by RT and denoisers

and as a sub-issue: optimal TV viewing distance for size/resolution

ignore the charts, and just go into a store and look with your eyes (i.e., "touch grass" tv-edition)

 

[Putonahappyface]

I'm genuinely considering getting shot of my PS5 PRO and the disc drive tomorrow, if the Space Marines 2 pssr patch looks worse than the base PS5.

I would feel a lot better if Sony came out with something reassuring, like "we are aware of the difficulties some developers are having implementing pssr and we will have a fix soon".

I feel hoodwinked.

 

[Justin9mm]

I'm curious what the pro could do without using any upscaler ai .

Just using it's Raw power.

LOL.. 1080p/60 most likely. It's not that powerful in raw performance, especially with new games.

 

[TGO]

LOL.. 1080p/60 most likely. It's not that powerful in raw performance, especially with new games.

Well everything uses a upscaler now but if we are talking just PSSR, The Callisto Protocol runs at 8K30 with Raytraying using TAAU instead.
4k60fps with Raytraying is flawless.
And the image quality?

 

[Justin9mm]

Well everything uses a upscaler now but if we are talking just PSSR, The Callisto Protocol runs at 8K30 with Raytraying using TAAU instead.
4k60fps with Raytraying is flawless.
And the image quality?

Not sure how that's relevant. He's talking about no upscaling, no PSSR, no FSR etc. What would Pro do if just running a complete native raw resolution just using its hardware.

 

[Justin9mm]

I'm genuinely considering getting shot of my PS5 PRO and the disc drive tomorrow, if the Space Marines 2 pssr patch looks worse than the base PS5.

I would feel a lot better if Sony came out with something reassuring, like "we are aware of the difficulties some developers are having implementing pssr and we will have a fix soon".

I feel hoodwinked.

SM2 is being worked on and not rushed out the door, it's highly unlikely it's going to be worse, they are a competent dev, I think it will be fine.

 

[TGO]

Not sure how that's relevant. He's talking about no upscaling, no PSSR, no FSR etc. What would Pro do if just running a complete native raw resolution just using its hardware.

The problem is you can really tell with those newer engines using the base resolution, because it built into the engine to use scaling method.
Ironically games that don't use those engines actually achieve 4K60fps, but they're older engines so you can't use that either.
Until someone actually does it we will never actually know sadly.

 

[Justin9mm]

The problem is you can really tell with those newer engines using the base resolution, because it built into the engine to use scaling method.
Ironically games that don't use those engines actually achieve 4K60fps, but they're older engines so you can't use that either.
Until someone actually does it we will never actually know sadly.

Well we can sort of speculate by the specs on paper, this is how we compare to PC specs. Yes for old games, it would be far more capable but no way on the newer engines as you mentioned. Of course we will never actually know because this is not the way games are made, as you said, built into the engine. Even a 4090 struggles without upscaling, we can't do without it.