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[truestatic]

Is this the first noteworthy time a publisher has openly cited PS+ as a negative influence? I always assumed the deals they struck meant the publisher was rewarded adequately.

I think the suggestion is that PS+ undermines launch sales.

 

[ezekielpacman]

Beat me to it, first time I have seen PS+ (and now Live whatever) talked about like that.

I think is more, PS+ has free games so maybe less people would buy an unknown developers generic fighting IP

That struck me as well.

Interesting, wasn't sure if I missed anything previously. I wonder if we'll see things scaled back going forward for the new gen (notwithstanding forced scaling back due to no content).

Almost as interesting as this CEO guy's attitude, lol.

 

[nikos]

Don't think I can support anyone with those sodium levels.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Gobshite

 

[Hagi]

It's funny that Koch is fine with Deep Silver publishing Ride to Hell but won't touch this guys game with a ten foot pole. Must suck being bounced by the parent company of the publisher of one of the worst games of all time.

Guy went full crazy too.

 

[jett]

This man clearly has mental problems. Koch media dodged a bullet.

 

[Family Fry]

Is this the first noteworthy time a publisher has openly cited PS+ as a negative influence? I always assumed the deals they struck meant the publisher was rewarded adequately.

Well it will be classed as negative to some publishers, all you need to do is see the amount of people who say. I'll grab it when it's free.

Question is what if it's never free? Then it never sells?

Point in question, Mike Bithell demo'd his new game, Volume, very recently. It will debut on PS4, he said it would be priced around £13/$20, after this someone asked him, free or discounted for ps+ subscribers?

People are already in the mindset.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Now imagine working with a turd like that. Pity, coz the game ideas pretty cool.

 

[OverBlood 3]

you all are ass and crap

 

[Off-Kilter]

What a fucking child.

 

[RedStep]

I think the suggestion is that PS+ undermines launch sales.

I think it's easy to see that the "free" war is a race to the bottom (especially difficult for MS, since their games are literally giveaways and not rentals). It benefits the player, and it provides some benefit to the publisher (in that they get compensation in some form), but it also devalues the product and fosters a different mindset in consumers.

I know I've found myself in weird situations as a result - I bought Hotline Miami on Vita, it went free recently and I've only spent about 2 hours on it (I played the hell out of the PC version). I don't mind supporting the developers, but I also know that I threw away $15 for basically nothing (or $10, whatever it cost). Next time I'm not sure I'll play something I'm likely to hold off and wait for a day that may never come. Not a good situation for publishers if it keeps increasing this way. The big hitters will be fine, but smaller titles will suffer - that's a problem that we had this generation before PS+ ever came about.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

you all are ass and crap

You are wee wees then so there

 

[VibratingDonkey]

The translation makes it an amusing adventure of stupid.

 

[bleachrude]

Besides the meltdown (and people think publishers have it easy with developers). I too ind the other tidbits interesting...especially given that this is Deep Silver. While Deep silver is no EA in size, it probably is as big as Take 2 and is probably bigger than Paradox Interactive.

What does it mean when you literally have 4-5 games being released every week for an indie developers When Braid hit Xbox live, I distinctly remember it being on the front page for WEEKS if not months As much as Blow has problems with MS, MS gave that game serious visibility. As someone earlier pointed out, what now when potentially you get 100+ games in a month. I really want to see how Sony, MS, Valve et al are going to do curation otherwise we're going to get the Android store.

EDIT: Didn't the people of GreenManGaming recently warn/talk about the effect these sales were having on customers? Yet they felt powerless to stop it?

 

[Totobeni]

Deep Silver publishing horrible games like Ride to Hell and Killer is Dead don't mean they'll just going to publish anything people throw at them.

 

[phosphor112]

Maybe nVidia borrows all their salt form him.

Jeez.

 

[Black Door]

Why on earth would they ever think that Deep Silver would OK and back an indie beat em up that's at like .005% completeness yet already looks like App Store shovelware?

 

[Family Fry]

Deep Silver publishing horrible games like Ride to Hell and Killer is Dead don't mean they'll just going to publish anything people throw at them.

Bitch please, wtf is this?
Killer is Dead can never be put alongside Ride to Hell.

 

[Savitar]

They must have believed Deep Silver to have extremely low standards.

It's like the Spanish version of Eric Cartman.

 

[trinest]

Bitch please, wtf is this?
Killer is Dead can never be put alongside Ride to Hell.

My issue with the Killer is Dead is more the button mashing. Made me his a wall which I can't pass because of it and basically killed the game for me.

Deep Silver usually only publishes games from well known people anyway, I don't think they were a good fit for the developer anyway.

I wounder if there will be a rebuttle from the publisher? Though I think its an issue which they would have to avoid, as its really a developer been unprofessional rather then them. They could reveal what the developer showed them at least I guess.

 

[mrlion]

Not many people are understanding the situation as the letters are badly translated (no offense, OP, it was a good attempt!).

I took the liberty to translate the emails myself as I am fluent in both English and Spanish are are able to translate the emotions that are shown in these letters and the people that say "Another Phil Fish" are not even far from the truth.

Oscar Del Moral's Rejecting Letter to NEOSAGA

Hello Antonio,

The higher ups have given me their conclusion after checking out the material that you sent to us.

We have rejected the project because we have no clear motive as to what will happen when the PS4 is released, specifically with small publishers such as ourselves. Additionally, based on our experience with downloadable games, we figured that the title will be trapped in a fire between free to play games and full-published games, making things more complicated and the probability of the project being profitable to be even more difficult. Not to mention the fact that Sony, like Microsoft, is giving away games via their Playstation Plus services like on Xbox Live repectively which makes things even more difficult.

With that said, thank you for the information you provided us and sharing our passion.

Regards,

Oscar Del Moral | Marketing Director | Kock media SLU.

NEOSAGA's CEO response to Oscar:

Hello Oscar, more than anything thank you for your email. I would like to make a comment that nothing based on predictions and politics for third-party subscriptions are neither objectively valid nor it will stop us for moving forward with our projects, as going by those fears video games can be considered dead, new brands would pass as anything short of a utopia and none of this is true. Video games are plainly growing above all thanks to us, Indie developers, and external publishers, such as ours, that have our days counted. However, allow me to explain, if you will, as I would love to give you three simple things to finish this:

First of all, as I said previously, rejecting projects in that same manner will only make enterpreneurs such as ourselves renounce you, the publishers, forever.

Secondly, thanks to rejection emails such as yours, we have opened our eyes with respect to what I have commented on my first point and to give a chance, as the moment of truth has arrived to renounce you, the publishers, as we no longer have a need for you. We are now able to publish the games ourselves for free and we no longer need the middle men of any kind. Let this be an example of insecurity on your part and even if you want to pay us we wouldn't want to work for you.

Lastly, as I've said earlier I thanked for your email not because it was completely useless to us but because as I said we no longer need you and I knew this beforehand, way before I started writing these words but you have no idea the satisfaction that left me in writing them. Thank you.

I hope that your higher ups read this as it is dedicated to Antonio Segarra Vela; founder, CEO, and game designer for NEOSAGA Game Studios in Barcelona, an entrepreneur for his fearless, small but great companyand one of many Indie dev teams with a pair of balls so big that it'll make his and his gamers' dreams come true and finally without publishers. Now you have a truthful reason to have fear and to shake in fear together.

Thank you very much for your time!

Sincerely,

Antonio Segarra Vela
CEO & Game Designer
NEOSAGA Game Studios (Barcelona)

 

[clem84]

LOL

Best possible first reply.

 

[Zephyrus]

Tell me he didn't wrote that "thing" in english. My God!

Can't very english I write well. (Oh it was translated)


Also what the fuck is wrong with most spaniards?
Where the hell does that holier than thou attitude comes from?
I see in a daily basis in real life and videogames.

 

[Htown]

When keeping it real goes wrong: Dev edition.

yup, lol

"The CEO of NeoSaga could have let it slide, quietly pitching his game to another publisher or attempting to find funding elsewhere.

Instead, he decided to keep it real."

 

[CTLance]

I'm preeeetty sure that Koch Media email was part of business correspondence and thus subject to certain terms of nondisclosure.

Also, what a bratty response. Guy needs a good spanking or two. He doesn't know how to handle rejection... Or, put another way, seeing as this has reached even us heavenly beings on neogaf, his idea of a PR campaign is crude, but kinda effective.

 

[NervousXtian]

Besides the meltdown (and people think publishers have it easy with developers). I too ind the other tidbits interesting...especially given that this is Deep Silver. While Deep silver is no EA in size, it probably is as big as Take 2 and is probably bigger than Paradox Interactive.

What does it mean when you literally have 4-5 games being released every week for an indie developers When Braid hit Xbox live, I distinctly remember it being on the front page for WEEKS if not months As much as Blow has problems with MS, MS gave that game serious visibility. As someone earlier pointed out, what now when potentially you get 100+ games in a month. I really want to see how Sony, MS, Valve et al are going to do curation otherwise we're going to get the Android store.

EDIT: Didn't the people of GreenManGaming recently warn/talk about the effect these sales were having on customers? Yet they felt powerless to stop it?

I'm actually really interested in this side of the discussion. How do you stand out anymore... honestly if Braid landed today, on Steam, XBLA, or PSN we probably wouldn't know who Jonathan Blow is.. it'd have been buried in the sea of crap out there.

 

[BronsonLee]

What a shitty response from the dev. Koch Media didn't do diddly, dude's just crazy.

 

[CambriaRising]

I lost it at "You are all ass and crap".

I might use that later.

 

[Neuromancer]

He really does have passion, I'll give him that.

 

[thetrin]

The unfortunate truth of being a publisher is having to reject titles.

It's nothing personal. I always feel bad when we have to, even when the game isn't good at all. I feel for them.

That's a pretty awful response, though. Dude is just doing his job.

 

[Kodaman]

dat first post

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Is this the first noteworthy time a publisher has openly cited PS+ as a negative influence? I always assumed the deals they struck meant the publisher was rewarded adequately.

What he was saying was that it's hard to compete with free games.

 

[Card Boy]

I wonder if the game is actually good?

And I will business suicide a thousand times before being a fucking donkey.

 

[Skerj]

yup, lol

"The CEO of NeoSaga could have let it slide, quietly pitching his game to another publisher or attempting to find funding elsewhere.

Instead, he decided to keep it real."

Don't be playing on my phone!!

Seriously though, this thing is hilarious. The dude just asked for help from a publisher and then took a shit on them. If they were so antiquated and on the way out, why ask them for help in the first place!?

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

I like his attitude.

Now go and make a great game.

 

[Haint]

Is this the first noteworthy time a publisher has openly cited PS+ as a negative influence? I always assumed the deals they struck meant the publisher was rewarded adequately.

Bet they hate Steam sales too.

 

[TheSeks]

Koch Media is the publisher that took Volition/Saint's Row off THQ's hands, right?

Sounds like the devs fucked up big time if they took Koch's "we don't want to publish this right now before we know how the console-market-landscape is," as an outright rejection. :/

 

[bleachrude]

Bet they hate Steam sales too.

I'm pretty sure Green Man gaming has gone on record as stating they hate sales as well (or at the least think its unhealthy for the industry).

re: Visibility

This is something I actually would love to see get more views. How going forward do the platform holders actually give games a fair shake...the latest indie game getting a push is the Stanley parable (stand by my first statement...this isn't a game) but at the same time, on Steam's frontpage, even if you factor out games that have console releases, there's over 25 games released in the last week.

Unless the game gets on the front page of Steam or gets reviewed by one of the big sites, there's literally no way I can see a new game getting a look and it isn't even like you can blame the console holders..how does Sony/MS give a fair shake to everyone when there's over 20 titles coming a week?

 

[Castcoder]

I was proud reading that email... and then I kept reading...

 

[Heyt]

This thing gets better every time I read it, seriously.

His video is quite revealing, he "hates to program" and "It's learning now but it's a pain in the ass". Also the current state of the "game" seems to be a single oddly moving sprite. I don't even know how Kotch actually had the consideration of reaching him back.

 

[Dueck]

Amy's Baking Company of gaming

Love the reference! I agree.

I understand the guy being disappointed that a potential revenue stream shot him down, but now he has basically pissed in all the other streams and can't find anything clean to drink.

 

[angelcage87]

I read the original facebook deal in Spanish, with this song on repeat. It greatly enhanced the experience : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZz3y6r-5H8

Having said that, yeah he pretty much killed his company. Unfortunately, I have some friends with similar issues. They are also trying to "make it" with basically nothing aside from mediocre ideas, refusing any kind of criticism and acting like drama queens. They are out of business now (well they never had a business to begin with). Don't play the game if you can't deal with the rules.

 

[FuKuy]

I wonder if the game is actually good?

There is NO game at all. The 'CEO' is starting to learn Game Maker because he is trying to find programmers to work for free with no results I can assume...

 

[Naeval]

Mother of God. This has arrived to Neogaf.

 

[lefantome]

I wonder what his staff meetings are like?

perfect :asd:


btw the koch media email underlines the problems born with ps plus, free games with gold and f2p.

 

[De-mon]

Fukuy, Naeval... this is like Vandal!

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I kept my composure up until the Phil Fish namedrop.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

What an idiot, the worst thing of all, he gives small spanish indie studios like us a bad name. Thanks a lot Antonio. We dont need guys like this in the industry.

At least I laughed with how he tried to translate some typical spanish phrases lol.

Fukuy, Naeval... this is like Vandal!

Holy shit! So many people of Vandal here lol

 

[Canis lupus]

The title sounds like he published his game on facebook.

 

[GhostTrick]

The worst thing here is that they didn't even gave him a typical PR answer. They gave him which looks like a real reason here.
BTW, there's another thing catching my attention here, it seems that some publishers might no be fond of PS+.