[Push Square via Sacred Symbols] PS5, PC Live Service Fairgames Is a 'Super Clunky' Cross Between Fortnite and The Division
ArtHands
Banned
Playstation has a LOT of loyal fans. I am sure it will work out fine.
Giallo Corsa
Member
9 out of 10 posts from you are some sort of dig/innuendo not to mention, trolling, frankly, it's gotten boring at this point, try to switch it up a little at the very least.
Raymond made nothing noteworthy since producing Assassin's Creed million years ago except hold high positions in studios and sell start-up studios for crazy money. The fact that she's so highly thought of by gamers and the industry to this day is funny and sad at the same time. Sony got played and their dumb asses deserve it.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
It's not uncommon for a leader to leave a company after another company buys them out.
BUT, in this case where an acquired studio is probably a year out from releasing their first product (assuming it's 2026), it looks odd as hell the lead bolts.
Writing on the wall and needing to get out of dodge, or perhaps it's going so bad that Sony management had to rid of her. For the past 10 years, her management roles have been a revolving door where her biggest roles are Stadia and Haven studios. And before that a few years at EA doing Star Wars and mobile kinds of games. One a disaster, and the current one practically a disaster unless Fairgames is actually good. And her EA stuff who knows.
When our company buys out some companies, top management has an agreement with the previous owners to stick around or leave. Usually they leave as someone internal takes over. But it's different as the company is already firing on all cylinders making and selling product worth $100s of million or billions. So everything is already set. But you just need some leadership to smooth things out before they leave 6-12 months later unless they are chosen to stay which is a total possibility too in a different role. It's better we dont have those old owners around because all I know is whenever our company buys out another one, literally in ONE YEAR later our company will grow sales. 5 years later, I;ve seen some brands literally 5x in sales across a ton of retailers and new products. So whatever the old regime did was very limiting and the point of buying up companies is to take over something with an opportunity to grow and multiply the sales which they couldnt see the vision or handle. So you offer them a low or reasonable offer play dumbing and hope they take it and know in the back of your head the company is probably going to at least triple the sales in the first few years which they'd have no hope in doing.
Jade Raymond flying the coop isnt one of those situations, since it doesnt make sense she bolts and the game isnt even close to being out yet. She either bolted on her own or got fired and Sony execs took over, but for PR sake made it look like she gently just left chill.
But hey, maybe it was her own decision and didnt give a shit. She got the money and wants to do another job leaving her studio high and dry on their own for the next year. And you'll be able to see that if suddenly in the next month or two, she promotes she got a new job promoting another company.
BUT, in this case where an acquired studio is probably a year out from releasing their first product (assuming it's 2026), it looks odd as hell the lead bolts.
Writing on the wall and needing to get out of dodge, or perhaps it's going so bad that Sony management had to rid of her. For the past 10 years, her management roles have been a revolving door where her biggest roles are Stadia and Haven studios. And before that a few years at EA doing Star Wars and mobile kinds of games. One a disaster, and the current one practically a disaster unless Fairgames is actually good. And her EA stuff who knows.
When our company buys out some companies, top management has an agreement with the previous owners to stick around or leave. Usually they leave as someone internal takes over. But it's different as the company is already firing on all cylinders making and selling product worth $100s of million or billions. So everything is already set. But you just need some leadership to smooth things out before they leave 6-12 months later unless they are chosen to stay which is a total possibility too in a different role. It's better we dont have those old owners around because all I know is whenever our company buys out another one, literally in ONE YEAR later our company will grow sales. 5 years later, I;ve seen some brands literally 5x in sales across a ton of retailers and new products. So whatever the old regime did was very limiting and the point of buying up companies is to take over something with an opportunity to grow and multiply the sales which they couldnt see the vision or handle. So you offer them a low or reasonable offer play dumbing and hope they take it and know in the back of your head the company is probably going to at least triple the sales in the first few years which they'd have no hope in doing.
Jade Raymond flying the coop isnt one of those situations, since it doesnt make sense she bolts and the game isnt even close to being out yet. She either bolted on her own or got fired and Sony execs took over, but for PR sake made it look like she gently just left chill.
But hey, maybe it was her own decision and didnt give a shit. She got the money and wants to do another job leaving her studio high and dry on their own for the next year. And you'll be able to see that if suddenly in the next month or two, she promotes she got a new job promoting another company.
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ArtHands
Banned
You're overthinking.
ArtHands
Banned
They can easily recoup their money from PS+ and stuffs
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Basically!
Peroroncino
Member
It's now called Fairgames, no dollar sign.
Does that mean Jade Raymond took the $ and roached out?
Does that mean Jade Raymond took the $ and roached out?
Neon Xenon
Member
Fairgames (like Concord) should be studied for how much damage just one trailer can do to the perception of a game that hasn't been released. Yes, "Eat the Rich", says live-service game that exists because of Sony burning money and is extremely likely to have microtransactions.
And now you have this rumor that the gameplay itself doesn't even warrant giving Fairgames a shot.
And now you have this rumor that the gameplay itself doesn't even warrant giving Fairgames a shot.
That reminds me, I've just received an exclusive comment from Jade Raymond in regards to her departure from Haven Studio:
Ar¢tos
Member
Oh no...
Should we support shitty GAAS practices and buy shitty GAAS games just so "people won't lose their jobs"?
Hypereides
Member
Not shocking coming from Jim "those PS1 games look ancient!" Ryan. Meanwhile, you got modern takes on "ancient" looking games (e.g. Balatro) making a comeback.It's hilarious how clueless Sony leadership is regarding this stuff.
They bought both Heaven and Firesprite after apparently being so impressed by what they had seen behind the scenes that they just needed to secure these studios.
Now it's looking more and more likely that both these games that apparently blew away the higher ups at Sony were obvious turds lol.
I half believe the internal meetings were something like:
Hermen's and Jimmy's 5D chess Bobby Fischer move to conquer a slice out of the GAAS market. Absolute creative visionaries.
Anyone who praised these guys as great choices to lead PS WWS operations should be put in a pillory for public display.
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MALpractice311
Member
Bingo. If these are the products those people were hired to create, then they never should have had those jobs to begin with. Sorry.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
The initial reception to the game was really bad.
Followed up by a survey last year in may and now a year later she's out. It seems clear that the direction of the game turned last year and probably in April or early may they had a test and it still wasn't good. At this point Sony has to make a decision as whether to cancel the game or not and if so, what they should do with the studio.
Unlike with Firewalk that would have had to compete with Bungie and Sucker Punch among others for recruiting, it makes a lot of sense for Sony to have a studio in Canada and pick off employees from Ubisoft Montreal and Eidos Montreal.
Not that these are necessarily unique, but 45 people at haven worked at eidos and 150 at ubisoft (could obviously have some overlap).
Astray
Member
He's probably the lowest-value user on this site tbh.
dead monkey uk
Member
Unfortunately Sonys eyesight is bad and that wall is PlayStation gamers.
It most likely looked like thisFairgames (like Concord) should be studied for how much damage just one trailer can do to the perception of a game that hasn't been released. Yes, "Eat the Rich", says live-service game that exists because of Sony burning money and is extremely likely to have microtransactions.
And now you have this rumor that the gameplay itself doesn't even warrant giving Fairgames a shot.
That reminds me, I've just received an exclusive comment from Jade Raymond in regards to her departure from Haven Studio:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
The Division? I thought this game was suppose to be like Payday or something lol
But with it still being in development, I'm not surprised it clunky, I don't know of any MP game in alpha or something like that with zero issues and we've yet to see anything like that for this to be um "news".
This sounds like the default of most games still in active development
But with it still being in development, I'm not surprised it clunky, I don't know of any MP game in alpha or something like that with zero issues and we've yet to see anything like that for this to be um "news".
This sounds like the default of most games still in active development
Haint
Member
You realize a "struggling" 10 million seller would return at least $200 million profit on a $300 million budget?
playbignbox
Member
The amount of people rooting for this game to fail is insane lol
RetroGamingUK
Member
The sooner this slop is cancelled and Hulst fired the better for gaming as a whole.
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What do you mean 3?
They cancelled a Gaas multiplayer Spider-Man insomniac were making,
A Gaas god of war by bluepoint, so after demons souls they just wasted blue point for the entire gen.
A Gaas game by bend instead of days gone 2
A Gaas twisted metal
A Gaas horizon
A Gaas last of us.
And I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. They've thrown billions at this and wasted most their limited studios output for the entire gen. Hence all the remasters and 2nd party games.
Catastrophically bad management.
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Fabieter
Member
And the only successful gaas game wasn't greenlit by current leadership so its clear they don't know what they are doing.
Yah helldivers was in dev long prior to this recent push and is just the sequel to an already excellent really unique multiplayer game that was great fun, it was obvious to anyone who had played the first game that the second would be a blast.
What's really frustrating is all the potentially great single player games all these studios will have pitched but were rejected and never greenlit as they were shuffled onto Gaas. Or all the studio acquisitions that were passed on in favor of things like bungie or firewalk.
Sony could have easily scooped up deus ex and tomb raider for cheap, those studios would have been massively aided by Sonys first party community to make really amazing games, but nope, billions down the drain on trash.
What's really frustrating is all the potentially great single player games all these studios will have pitched but were rejected and never greenlit as they were shuffled onto Gaas. Or all the studio acquisitions that were passed on in favor of things like bungie or firewalk.
Sony could have easily scooped up deus ex and tomb raider for cheap, those studios would have been massively aided by Sonys first party community to make really amazing games, but nope, billions down the drain on trash.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Don't be an idiot. Playstation "fans" are mostly attacking this game and every other turd PS is shitting out this gen.
Drop the bullshit.
Ar¢tos
Member
It's really sad how they own a lot of studios and only managed to release 3 games (Retutnal, Ratchet & Clank and Astro Bot) in 5 years that aren't crossgen or remaster/remake or GAAS crap.
Edit: Forgot about Spider Meh 2
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ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
And it's literally the THIRD TIME she's done this. Herman Hulst and everyone involved with even having a single meeting with her needs to be metaphorically shot out of Sony's offices from a cannon. Incompetence to the point of treason type shit.
Yah I've never understood this weird sentiment expressed that this place is supposedly full of PlayStation shills. It's full of many PlayStation fans, sure, I'm one one them, but I've generally speaking most of us are pretty outspoken in slamming them when they are fucking up, I just don't see the level of supposed sycophancy that some people imagine.
crackajack
Member
Sony must have been in a weird panic mode after MS (and Tencent) bought so many developers and entire publishers. I guess MS is getting back their huge invest on AB, eventually, and Bethesda sooner, but Sony's purchases this gen mostly underdelivered or delivered so far nothing at all. VR2 could have gotten some okay games, even though VR will remain niche for probably another decade, and pulling out entirely, not releasing VR2, would probably have made sense. PS Portal could have been optionally a Steamdeck like proper handheld. We could have gotten a few proper high budget games, even the already too many remakes could have had even more. Or a ton of Resogun/Fat Princess/rain/Helldivers1 like small budget games. Chasing GaaS makes sense, but the suits really burned money trusting the wrong people to make it happen.
This site is 100% a Sony shill site, BUT fairgames and marathon have crossed into that rare territory where not even shills can defend them. Thats how you know the games are a screwed.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Embracer ran into the same situation.
If you check out their wiki acquisitions list they made so many giant purchases from like 2019-2021-ish range gobbling up second tier studios and publishers. And when added up, all those umbrellas lead to something like 100 (ya, one hundred) studios. A group of bigger ones and probably like 90 indie studios. Some are so small or probably not even making anything they didnt even have a wiki page. Who the hell knows.
The rumour was they did this in hopes of a Saudi group with a big wallet to just by them out. But they bailed and in 2022 is when interest rates zoomed up, so they hit a crunch as their loans got way more expensive. Next thing you know they closing studios or selling them off. So their gobbling up was for a different reason (assuming it was more of a buy and flip play than genuinely wanting to make games across 100 studios).
But the end result is similar. Buy up too many studios at once, and it's a tough slog to handle that. It can happen (big company A buys big company B and the stock goes up 30% and everything works out), but typically when a company does a giant purchase, it's either for an established company that already stands on its own two feet making big money, or they get bought for potential (new tech or bio company with hardly anything right now, but a big corp sees something and wants in). And in my industry when big guys buy up brands or small companies, it's a slow build. One here, one there spread out across years. Nobody buys up 5 in a couple years or does an Embracer spree. But as I said many times, some reason tech and media always have tons of money floating around and have freewheeling spending habits. Snazzy offices, big budgets, roller coaster hiring sprees, nothing ever seems too expensive. The VPs of Finance who work at these companies must be the most generous finance guys in the world.
Sony shotgunned a big Bungie buy (established) and a slew of noname studios with nothing but some napkin math (potential). If these Concords and Marathons and Fairgames are bad now, just imagine how bad they were 3 years ago in pre-pre-pre alpha mode whatever, but execs still loved it enough back then to just buy them out rolling the dice in 2024 and later they will be winners.. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesnt. Just didnt work for Sony. Some of their buys may not have had anything. Deviation Games kept plugging its lead by Jason Blundell from COD fame I think. I'm not sure if they even had one pixel to show. But Sony bought them.
One thing you'll notice about these new failed games and studios is they always have an industry vet to promote. Basically the figurehead of the studio. So Sony trusted them.
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By "eventually" you mean how many years? 30? 40? 50?
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Schmendrick
Banned
Can`t wait for either the cancellation notice or the dumpster fire DOA release.
Concord provided a lot of entertainment, especially if you didn`t play it, I expect this and Marathon to be the same.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I think you misunderstood what they meant here. Struggle to sell 10 million, not sell 10 million and struggle. If you spend 300 million on a game and you sell 4-5 million copies across platforms, you're probably in a bit of trouble. Depending if that cost includes marketing or not. If these numbers include PC, that's -20% on the PC revenue. If the game uses UE5 it's an extra 5% across the board.
I think this is probably an oversimplification. Sony has always been buying studios. There was a time during the pandemic where interest rates were so low, it made a lot of sense to spend money and no one really knew when the pandemic would be over, and gaming was on the rise.
Sony saw the writing on the wall as it pertains to live service games and also saw a blindspot. They moved to fill the blindspot.
You're doing a bit of an apples and oranges comparison in comparing buying publishers to buying studios, especially startup studios. ABK and Zenimax had several games in development when Microsoft bought them. These studios that Sony purchased might not have had any games in full development. They also didn't spend 80 billion dollars in the process and fundamentally change their business model as a result.
Sony bought Firesprite to bolster their VR. They shutdown London Studio and probably diverted Firesprite from VR because the platform simply isn't worth the investment right now.
The Portal has been a massive success and has completely different R&D than a handheld.
Sony was never going to triple down on AAA SP games. Financially, it doesn't make sense to do so. I think gamers don't have a fundamental understanding about the ceiling on these games and think that each release lives on its own.
I think Sony bought Bungie because they wanted a prestigious GaaS studio compared to the start ups they were buying. I think Bungie promised them not one but two major GaaS franchises, i.e. Marathon, with some incubation projects that were exciting to them. I also think Sony couldn't risk Microsoft buying Bungie and having a Halo resurgence a franchise that has been a thorn for Sony for nearly 20 years.
I think people make a bit too much out of the no name studios. First, there's no chance they cost much to buy. Second, it's not much different from starting an internal studio from scratch. These are inherently risky and I don't think anyone really should have thought that there was no risk involved. It's not the first time Sony has done this. From 2002-2007, four of the studios Sony acquired would be shut down by 2016.
There's evidence to suggest that the studios Sony bought cost less than 400 million dollars collectively. That's 8 studios, averaging 50 million per acquisition.
I'm confident Bluepoint, Nixxes, and Housemarque will long term be considered successes. Valkyrie Entertainment is a hard one to gauge from the outside.
Sony didn't buy Deviation Games, but you can argue that while it is a roll of the dice, buying a studio from the outset, is probably worth the risk so you can clamp down IP and further cooperation in this fast moving industry. Like we've seen with Firewalk, you can always close the studio if you have to, but look at Arrowhead. They're not going to sell now, they'll test the waters like Insomniac did. You take the same approach with Arrowhead and you're probably looking pretty right about now.
Sony spent 400 million on these studios and they're probably not underwater on them given the PC port sales of Nixxes being so high marign, which is probably why Hermen hasn't been fired yet.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Fortnite and The Division blend? Yuck.
MDSLKTR
Gold Member
Kerotan
Member
As a hardcore playstation fan I agree. I wouldn't have played a single one of these GAAS attempts regardless.
crackajack
Member
not for billions though
probably true, and afair the price for ABK was insane compared to usual acquisitions, in and outside of gaming. Everyone went just nuts.
Japan is now a blindspot. Their home turf. Japan could have gotten a higher tier Portal to at least get some of the Switch magic. And the rest of the world was possibly also ready to get a powerful portable, a steamdeck 2.0. AMD has various chips, R&D isn't anymore like with Cell where you pay all of it beacause it is made by or for you. Sony just needed to support something many would have considered their Series S... so the question is if it only could have been a PS4P until crossgen lasted, so more a steamdeck 1.1, or an actual PS5P. Sony did none of it and opted for a wii-u tablet, that additionally got ? / will get ? streaming support. Considering how unsuccessful that was for Nintendo it blows my mind that it worked out above expectations for Sony.
I would not want them to. But going all in on gaas, and pratically nothing else, is just stupid. Especially when your track record with regular MP isn't particularly good. GT did well after Driveclub fumbled it badly. Can't even remember if they did more MP on PS4.
I rather think a Bethesda/ Bioware like RPG might have been a more suited adventure. Horizon is anyway almost in that area. There are not many studios that do them, and doing them well isn't easy either, but the good ones sell like crazy, forever, that's a blindspot in their portfolio. They also have no CoD, GTA of their own. Certainly also not easy, but I rather see them try various genres than 10 different but still samey gaas online shooters. A cheap Sports Champions 3 for VR2 would have made sense and another stab at Smash bros with PS Allstars BR 2 too. Ad were is this gens Crash Team Racing, LBP Karting? There are a ton of blindspots they have and seemingly ignore. They are also missing a mascot, currently a Kart Racer would probably be AstroBot Kart which would be better than a more generic named PS Allstars Racing but still not the same pull as Mario.
50mill per failure is still much, plus Bungie, even when they currently can shoulder that. It's not like PS3 eating all past profits up. But still they went way too hard into all those studios, greenlighting all with the same idea, seemingly all not able to deliver. Some canceling earlier some too advanced to back of prematurely but now having trouble to decide if they need to cancel nevertheless or tarnish their image somewhat with products no one really eagerly anticipates. (no one other than neogaf's gaas disciple)
ArtHands
Banned
Why will "fans" wish this Playstation game to fail then? Make no sense.
Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
They got it back the moment they spent it.
Spend $69 billion in cash reserves, Microsoft is now worth guess what the EXACT same amount. As their company as a whole increased in value that same $69 billion with the acquisition.
Except assets like CoD increase in value yearly while money has less and less worth by the day. They parked their cash in an asset that creates them more wealth than having it just sit there did.
Generic
Member
Only if it sold 10m at full price.
Haint
Member
No, I assumed an average sale price of $50. 10 million at full price, and accounting for premium and collector editions would return a profit of $400-$500+ million on a $300 million budget. 90%+ of Sony's 1st party sales are digital on the PS Store so they're basically earning 100% of the revenue.
I took it to mean the games limp over the 10 million line across a long time span, which is a worst case historical scenario for Sony's modern premiere ultra budget 1st party games. We don't have any example scenarios where Sony's multi-hundred million dollar games struggle to sell a few million or 5 million, quite the opposite, most of them have sold 15 million or 25+ million.
Claiming that it's not a sustainable business and he expects them to start closing ND, Insomniac, Guerilla, SP, SSM is farcical at this point. They would have to release a long line of single player bombs to be talking about that, and it's more likely they'd downsize and start limiting scope and budget well before shutting them down.
GAAS isn't about saving the business or sustaining single player games, their major studios are already profit monster. GAAS is about chasing Fortnight lightning in a bottle unicorns that will return multiple Billions that will all go to funding more GAAS, shareholder value, and stock buy backs, not funding single player games.
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Hypereides
Member
I agree with what
Giallo Corsa
noted. This isn't as subtle as you think it is. Some of us PS fans aren't too thrilled about the status quo. Mix it up.
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kpopSuperstar
Member
This is a commie game based on the idea to attack anyone with money, fuck this game and anyone making it.They still got time to tighten things up. Isn't that what these play tests are for? A mix between Fortnite and the Division sounds very interesting, but it seems like no matter what game Sony puts out, its going to get irrational hate no matter what. Even the sequel to Returnal has people saying its just going to " be more of the same".
They just need to make sure to nail the gameplay loop. If its fun, the gamers will come...
