ChorizoPicozo
Member
Fairgame$ and marathon are following the same steps for unprecedented success.
Following Concord’s historic failure, Sony admits its live-service push is “not entirely going smoothly”
Kilau
Member
This guy fucks.Bro, im in my 40s, and from eastern europe, u can imagine how clubbing/dating scene was in early 2000s before smartphone/facebook/instagram/snapchat got invented? Back then u could actually find quality girl w/o double digit bodycount, tatoos, nose piercings, feminist views and all that "modern women" western bullshit.
And if she had her hair coloured in some fancy unnatural way- it meant she had daddy issues and i could work with that
Today in the west most women(there are some humble rare exceptions ofc, godbless) are of such a low quality its not even funny, they fucking have rosters where they talk to(aka fuck) 3-4-5 or more different guys at the same time, that alone from my pov is utterly disgusting shit, some guys(if they are thirsty af and come from scarcity mindset) are fine with that or just do simple strategy of pump and dump, but personly the thought of another guy recently plowing girl im about to sleep with is nasty af, this shit lingers, 5 or so days even
ecosse_011172
Gold Member
Killjoy-NL
Member
Look at how successfull sp classics like Indy and Doom are as well.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Thank God the worst is over....oh wait....
Pretty much guaranteed DOA
tmlDan
Member
The truth, did u think all the purple rainbow shit in gaas genre is to lure more teenage boys/young male adults? They already play that genre and are overwhelming majority of players, stupid woke sony CEO's wrongly thought they gonna sustain male audience and attract female audience on top(same train of thoughts EA CEO/bioware had with last DA:V), which obviously cant happen, ever.
For the simple reason men and women arent the same, we like/prefer/are attracted to very different things, very often opposite things
LordOcidax
Member
This sounds more like… Things are not going smoothly with the GAAS strategy, we are going to invest more and improve….
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
"Sony admits its live-service push is "not entirely going smoothly" --- Imagine that!.............
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah, there are no "cheap" failures in the AAA space. The only difference with GAAS stuff is the revenue potential on the upside is vastly greater than almost any single player title. Which is why they'll keep going to the well until they have titles that actually stick.
The reality is that most of the people cheering on the failures in attempting GAAS, couldn't predict what would be a successful game in that space if their lives depended on it, because they aren't interested in that sort of game in the first place.
Which is significant when evidently there *is* a massive audience to be tapped.
Its sad to me how many people seem to think that if a game isn't for them, it doesn't deserve to exist.
StreetsofBeige
Member
There's another key difference. Legacy.
Sony has a history of high budget, but highly successful SP bangers (ratings and sales). When DG is their worst selling big SP game at around 8M copies, I dont get a sense Sony loses money on these big games, so they got to risk it on pricey GAAS to change it up.
So spending so much time and money in such a short time rolling the dice on GAAS studios and games, while their bread butter games have slowed down makes no sense. One of those Sony execs years ago even said something like... "Well, all it takes is one big one to cover the rest". Why would a company, except the biggest balance sheet gambling company want to do that? It was a stupid claim because it's actually false. Huge hit Helldivers 2 definitely has not covered all the failed GAAS games and studios, especially with $3.6B Bungie added to the mix (which includes $1.2B employee retention payouts wiped off already).
Even Bend Studios who has a history of SP games ending up working on a GAAS game (cancelled). So Sony pushed way too far and fast. Almost all their new studios purchased lately have been GAAS - even Neon Koi mobile gaming studio (shut down).
Now if Sony was a company with no real identity, or their games are total hits and misses across SP and MP, and the company wants to push MP that's not that surprising. They'll try anything and got no reliable track record.
But Sony doing it is. It's like a guy in the stock market making great money buying stable companies with good dividend payouts. Then one year he suddenly changes and buys volatile tech and penny stocks hoping to 10x his money. Why? The guy is doing great with what he knows and picks. Why risk messing it all up?
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Sony has a solid history in MP, but their studios got closed as 3rd party franchises like COD, BF, Fortnite, Roblox, Apex, etc took over the scene.
Which was fine for a while, but then MS started buying major publishers and Sony realized they couldn't rely on 3rd party as much anymore.
The problem was by that time, dedicated MP studios like Zipper, Incognito and Evolution already got shut down.
So Sony was left with no MP-focused studios.
And if they want to add MP/live service games without taking their main studios off singleplayer, they have to invest in/acquire new studios.
That's what we're seeing. It's rather strange that so many here seem to have amnesia, as these things have been discussed to death for the past 5-6 years or so.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That corporate speak.
Translation. Its a train wreck.
Translation. Its a train wreck.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Not really. Back when PS3 had tons of shooters, their online player base was barely anything to brag about. Everyone played third party COD and BF. And tons of people on 360 played Halo and Gears too. Even when PS4 came out and KZ Shadowfall was a launch title, nobody stuck around for online mode since it was junk. PS4 gamers wanting their MP shooter thrills went third party.
Those old business slides (if they held on schedule) had 2025 with like 12 GAAS games which is nuts. I dont even think Activision or EA have that many going all at once. And Sony wanted to shotgun all of these in a handful of years overlapping each other.
The problem with Sony's GAAS approach isnt trying it out. It's the magnitude all at once. They were literally acting like a guy in the stock market doing well and suddenly blowing their wad picking 10 penny stocks hoping for a jackpot. All the while, his portfolio was doing great focusing on what he knows best (like let's say a guy who knows what hes doing picking energy company stocks). But got tempted with a pot of money and tried to snowball it into something huge.
- Helldivers 2 (success)
- Bungie $3.6B (incl $1.2B employee payout)
- Deviation. Shut down and Sony rehires Jason Blundell again for another studio and likely a GAAS again
- Haven
- Concord studio
- Neo Koi (mobile). Sony even wanted to stretch out to mobile
- Bend's cancelled GAAS game when their history is SP games
- Horizon GAAS game
- Any GAAS game that got cancelled under existing studios I forgot about (Factions 2 etc...)
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You're acting like Sony stopped doing what they were doing, which is simply untrue.
The only pre-existing studio involved in the GAAS push was Bend, and very little is known about the project. For all we know it could've been a great idea in theory but failed because they were unable to execute it. In much the same way that Naughty Dog wasted time trying to build out Factions 2 which was being developed in tandem with TLOU2 but ended up cancelled because at some point it was decided that it wasn't worth sacrificing the entire studio's budget and output on.
For all we know they could have been as successful as Helldivers 2 and targeting a similar audience.
Concord and Fairgame$ were both external projects that were brought into the fold, as was Deviation's game which was likely GAAS too.
The point is they weren't ever making multiple variations on Concord, they were trying to create a spread of titles that would appeal to different demograohics, so people acting like the whole plan was "never for them and therefore bad" are being dumb on multiple levels.
The only obvious thing was having bought Bungie, and therefore Destiny, they wouldn't want to tread on their style because it would defeat the object to create titles that would end up competing against one-another.
Its also remembering that they've been expanding their single-player line-up with titles like Stellar Blade and Rise Of The Ronin and all the China Hero titles.
Acting like there's been some sort of edict that "everything must be GAAS, and specifically Hero shooters" just doesn't represent the reality.
The fact is they've had single player options covered as well as ever, albeit with assistance from third parties.
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
But they're not giving up.
Killjoy-NL
Member
When I said Sony has a solid history, I was talking about their mp output. It was practically a standard feature for them.
But you're right that franchise like COD were dominant. I literally said so and that it resulted in studio closures for Playstation.
As for the titles you mentioned, in a sense, Firewalk, Haven, Bungie and Deviation filled a void left by Zipper, Incognito and Evolution.
I already addressed Bend. It isn't one of Sony's main studios, so acting like that gaas game cancellation is a big deal is quite a stretch.
Your post comes across as pretty narrow-minded.
BlackTron
Member
The truth, did u think all the purple rainbow shit in gaas genre is to lure more teenage boys/young male adults? They already play that genre and are overwhelming majority of players, stupid woke sony CEO's wrongly thought they gonna sustain male audience and attract female audience on top(same train of thoughts EA CEO/bioware had with last DA:V), which obviously cant happen, ever.
For the simple reason men and women arent the same, we like/prefer/are attracted to very different things, very often opposite things
Is this really a man vs woman thing? They didn't make it Barbie, they made it ass ugly and bad. If they were trying to expand audience to women then they just double failed by catching nobody except maybe journalists that don't play games.
blacktout
Member
Some people *formerly* on GAF.
I have to admit, these threads just aren't the same anymore. I'm so starved for salt that I'm going to develop a fucking goiter.
Mobilemofo
Member
"We revolve, but we don't evolve" - Sony spokesman Alan Partridge
PeteBull
Member
Lets just for comparision look how fairy succesfull multiplayer shooter looked like(marvel rivals), roster wise, 95%+ are either very manly muscular men or hot women in slutty(skin tight or/and revealing) outfits:
Devs knew what teenage boys/young males like to play as, they didnt give in to DEI like for example spiderman2 devs:
MJ looks like peter's mother ffs:
She has literally that common unfuckable look like for example martha kent from smallville:
Hell even matha kent actress in early season(49yo at the start of the series) was more hot/fuckable from supposedly 20 something mj in spiderman2
BTW, she played lana lang in superman3 with the goat:
She was born in 52 so durning superman3 filming(started in 82, launched 83) she was already 30-31yo, as u can see wall is undefeated even for 8's 9s and 10s
BlackTron
Member
Lets just for comparision look how
Right, so like I said, they targeted women, failed, and appealed to nobody then?
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Banned
I will do my part and shit on everything live service from Sony, minus HD2 cuz it's an actual good game.
PeteBull
Member
Its not only that game's devs, we had battlefield5, saints row reboot and many other games that dont cater to male audience
What im saying wanna target women do it smart way, like animal crossing devs, its 2nd most popular og switch game with over 48m of sold copies( only beat by mario kart).
If u try to be smartass dev trying to target every1, u will actually cater to no1, and ur game gonna flop 100%.
Latest example is gta6, game has to sell extremly well and guess what, it has 2 protags- muscular manly man and hot feminine latina:
That way we already can tell game gonna sell 50m+ copies in launch window/2026 alone =D
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Shadowstar39
Member
He's right. Well at least for older guys older millennials and genx. Games like apex, valaront and others are not gritty, no realistic violence, obviously no plot, they are just battle royale with pronoun characters.
Sony and other western studios seen that they were only selling to men and then sarkesian and crew came our pushing propaganda, along with flawed surveys stating that women were 50% of gamers (which is true only if you factor in phones and Facebook) meanwhile it's not true for console or pc. Them being a business wanted more money so they focus on androgen pus and feminist outfits and non hetero identity over everything else (just look at much of reddit and resetera for this type of mindset) that way they can get more customers. Probelm with their plan is men and women are different and have different likes and dislikes. We aren't social constructs. There is a reason Sims 4 is 90%(or so) women and most shooters are 90% men. Just like romcoms in film.
Nothing but return to form grit like pre 2014 will get me back into modern Sony fps. They could of killed it with killzone, socom, warhawks, twisted metal, motorstorm and resistance games but instead went with lame shit.
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yurinka
Member
This is a proper transcript of what she really said:
-Goldman Sacks: "Second question: About Marathon I also want to ask. It's a title that is attracting a lot of attention and strengthening live service games. So how do you look at the current status of your strategy to strengthen that? So... you looked at the quality before launch and you made a decision and you're postponing. So, I think you're making a flexible decision, I think that is a good thing, but in the other hand it's negative feedback that the title doesn't appeal. So.. how do you look at the current situation in terms of strenghtening live service games? Where do you see the issues, please?
-Lin Tao: "Second question, about Marathon and also live service games: their overall status. Last year Condord [tanked hard], and this year Marathon was postponed, so somewhat negative news have been coming out, but if you look at the past five years, five years ago live service games was almost non-existant for PlayStation Studios. We have held Helldivers 2, MLB, Gran Turismo 7 and Bungie's Destiny 2, so we have these four live services contributing to sales and profit in a stable manner. For Q1 live services ratio was about 40%. For the full year it's a little less, probably between 20 to 30%. So in terms of a transformation it is not enterely going smoothly, but ifrom a longer term perspective if you look at the changes over five years you see that there is definetively change. Of course, we recognize that there are still issues, many issues, so we should learn lessons from mistakes and make sure that we introduce live services contents where there's less waste and is more smooth. That's all from myself."
TLDR: She acknowdleges that Concord tanked and Marathon got delayed, so have to continue learning and improving, but also explains that in GaaS Helldivers 2, MLB, GT7 and Destiny 2 are going great and now GaaS make 40% of their first revenue while 5 years ago was basically nothing, so their strategy of expanding in GaaS is working.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
It's not working.
40% vs "basically nothing" means nothing when the latest batch of new GAAS studios and games (including buying Bungie for $3.6B) have all got cancelled or tanked except for Helldivers 2. And there's no way Helldivers 2 success is covering all the failed GAAS stuff. If Sony did nothing except coast on GT7 and MLB, they would of had less GAAS sales as % of revenue, but their profits would had zoomed up the charts. And their brand image would improve too because you wouldnt have the likes Concord and the stolen art Marathon debacle which gamers and sites all laughed at.
On the horizon (no pun intended) are Marathon, Fairgames and maybe the Horizon MP game. The chances of these 3 games (even just one of them) being a big success is small. Nobody is hyped about these games.
Percentages mean nothing.
It's like Sony saying digital sales at 80% is a success and a much higher % than 2020. But the gaming division's profits are basically the same as 5 years ago despite top line sales which are probably double. So it's not a success. The company has sold as extra $20 or $30B extra game sales at $0 profit. And one reason for that for sure is cost of dev which includes the big focus on GAAS. $1.2B alone went to paying off Bungie people just to stick around. That's way more than whatever top line sales Helldivers 2 even pulled in so far (never mind the actual profits). No doubt a main reason why they are so big into ports lately, including H2 for Xbox. They got to boost profits by doing software sales. 70% cuts on PC, Switch, Xbox.
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ZehDon
Member
Jim Ryan's legacy rages on. Historic profits aren't enough. 2.5:1 Majority market share isn't enough. Having your competitor port their games to your platform in defeat isn't enough. Sony clearly doesn't need to make its big budget blockbuster single player games to rake in the cash anymore, so Sony's fixed its eyes on the unsustainable higher return on investment that only GAAS supplies - and it's clearly prepared to sink studios to get it. Given that they're clearly not giving up the ghost here, I think one big high profile single player under-performer, something like Intergalactic, might trigger Sony's board to shift focus entirely. And that'll be when the shit hits the fan, cause it'll be a big step away from what's made PlayStation what it is. Bad idea, in my books.
StreetsofBeige
Member
I'm not even a superhero game/movie fan and dont play Marvel Rivals.Lets just for comparision look how fairy succesfull multiplayer shooter looked like(marvel rivals), roster wise, 95%+ are either very manly muscular men or hot women in slutty(skin tight or/and revealing) outfits:
But even for me, that artwork above looks slick. It's one part anime/eastern influenced, but instead of really bubbly flatter shaded anime stuff its got a realistic gritty vibe to it too. And just like action movies or any splashy media you got hunky dudes and sexy chicks. Just how people like it.
If people want to stare at normies and fuglies, they'll watch a documentary or a drama where plotline is more important than spectacle.
It's among the most basic Marketing 101 kind of strategies in history. But western studios purposely tried going against it promoting ugly blobs hoping customers like their personal politics infused into the product. Not just gaming companies, but the political trend of doing it in clothing ads too where some got caught up in it (and now backtracked). Pure insanity.
Those marketing and artwork show and tell meetings at head office must had been doozies to sit through.
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And that's nothing, they gonna keep fucking around and gonna find out soon with the releases of Failgames and Marathon...
They got their lightning in a bottle = Helldivers 2, it's not gonna happen twice, but it's not like they can learn from the mistakes of multiple failed games from other devs + their own, otherwise they wouldn't keep burning cash chasing the GAAS trend...
Inb4 the wannabe Sony shareholders, "bu... but muh pRoFitZ"
They got their lightning in a bottle = Helldivers 2, it's not gonna happen twice, but it's not like they can learn from the mistakes of multiple failed games from other devs + their own, otherwise they wouldn't keep burning cash chasing the GAAS trend...
Inb4 the wannabe Sony shareholders, "bu... but muh pRoFitZ"
yurinka
Member
Of course it's working even if had issues with games like Concord or Marathon, he said so mentioning MLB, Helldivers 2, Gran Turismo 7 and Destiny 2 as examples of very successful GaaS that are contributing steadily to their revenue and profit.
And well, compared to the previous generation they basically doubled their first party revenue thanks to that 40% from GaaS and thanks multiplatform. In this same point of the previous generation (Q1 FY18), a quarter after releasing GoW 2018, as explained here Sony was pretty likely doing aproximatedly the same first party revenue in PS than they are did this quarter outside PS. Meaning, seems they more than doubled their total first party revenue compared to a generation ago.
Bullshit, as she said even if Concord tanked or they delayed Marathon, MLB, Helldivers 2, Destiny 2 and Gran Turismo 7 are doing a great job in the GaaS area.
And well, in a year from now or so they also should have Destiny Rising (mobile focused), Marathon, Marvel Tokon, Convallaria, Midnight Murder Club. Plus who knows if (I assume they'll be for a year later) Horizon Online, Fairgames or Gummy Bears too.
Cancellations, games not greenlighted and some game tanking from time to time are normal business common stuff, all companies including Sony had many of them since forever, even decades before GaaS existed.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
You dont get it.
Put it this way. Even with H2's huge success and whatever D2 DLC mtx they get, there is no way that's covering Bungie's $1.2B employee retention pay off, and all the extra costs of newly bought and shut down GAAS studios and games (add Firewalk and Concord to the mix). Huge money loss. And that doesn't even include the value loss in Bungie which has hit the shitter. They've already done 2-3 waves of layoffs. Add it all up and it's huge losses.
They'd be more successful if they skipped all the above and just went with GT7 and MLB as usual.
That's a key reason why Sony's gaming division margins have dried up. The division sells 2-3x more revenue than 5 years ago and profit $$$ are about the same. Huge dev costs sunk the financials.
That's why Sony has been so gung ho with PC ports and now will release more Switch/Xbox ports in the future. Need to make up high margin sales to comp dwindling division margins.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
The bags of riches Fortnite and COD earn do that to other game companies.
And it's not even just a turn for more GAAS games. But a focus on the exact same thing as the above.... it's got to be the millionth shooter GAAS game hoping they can carve out a pie slice from them. There's actually many kinds of GAAS types of games a company can be successful in.
But the shooter bro game will be the one most studios focus on.
digimaster7
Member
I still can't believe they made a live service game where the main method of monetization is cosmetics and character costume, and yet the characters are ugly…
and someone green lit the design, and the CEO is also fine by it
how does this happen???
and someone green lit the design, and the CEO is also fine by it
how does this happen???
semiconscious
Member
'once is happenstance. twice is coincidence. three times is enemy action.'
- ian fleming, 'goldfinger'
we now have proof: sony is its own worst enemy...
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StreetsofBeige
Member
LOL. Thats what a lot of streamers who covered Concord said too. The point of character based games (hero shooters included) is good looking characters a gamer can choose, and then you get them to buy more mtx shit with content that makes them even better looking. It sounds like such basic business concepts anyone would know.
But supposedly the reason why Concord ended up this way was toxic corporate culture. It was a wild west of DEI supporters who got the power throne and pushed through the game how they wanted it. And any naysayers got stomped on.
But also process oriented issues like not showing gamers gameplay or getting feedback until it was too late. The first gameplay clips were literally about 3 months before launch (after like 6-8 years of dev). So it was too late to change anything. Again, they wanted to just push the game through to gamers how they wanted it.
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