I just had a similar pull, 2 super gold kings in 10 rolls, 1 king ruby in 3 rolls.
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Puzzle & Dragons |OT| Pokemon + Bejeweled + Dungeon RPG on iOS/Android
- Thread starter Cosmo Clock 21
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I just had a similar pull, 2 super gold kings in 10 rolls, 1 king ruby in 3 rolls.
Wow nice! I still have never gotten a Super King Gold.
rocksteady1983
Member
13 pal pulls, all complete trash. Fun.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Yeah for Hera. Went with SoD and man this is taking forever, lol. I can't even break the defense of the demons :l
MMBosstones86
Member
Hera get!
Only spent 1 stone, but ended up getting it back at the end. Any need for Hera if I have 2 Hades or should I just hope for a skillup? I'll try and run it one more time today. 2x Max SL Sirens is so useful. Could use a few more SL's on Echidna though.
Only spent 1 stone, but ended up getting it back at the end. Any need for Hera if I have 2 Hades or should I just hope for a skillup? I'll try and run it one more time today. 2x Max SL Sirens is so useful. Could use a few more SL's on Echidna though.
Tonner Cyn
Member
Which team has the lowest-stone cost for Zeus? Or are they both just too under-leveled?
Team1:
Loki the Finisher (60)
Awoken Hera (50)
Awoken Hera (40) EDIT - She is 45 now
Duke Vampire Lord (44, max skill)
CDK (47, sl2)
or Team 2:
Duke
CDK
Awoken Hera
Awoken Hera
Echidna the Red Empress (62)
I have a couple of max-level Zeus friends, at least one with like +100.
I am hoping to have some time to level up a little more but there is no guarantee for that.
Team1:
Loki the Finisher (60)
Awoken Hera (50)
Awoken Hera (40) EDIT - She is 45 now
Duke Vampire Lord (44, max skill)
CDK (47, sl2)
or Team 2:
Duke
CDK
Awoken Hera
Awoken Hera
Echidna the Red Empress (62)
I have a couple of max-level Zeus friends, at least one with like +100.
I am hoping to have some time to level up a little more but there is no guarantee for that.
I thought I had this wrong but let's go through this. Say you kill Neptune w/ Morning star, you got 1 health coming into Hades.
You need to save 35 turns, you get 3 turns of half damage, so you set defensive stance @ "in 3." the next time this one'll have to guard is in 21 turns, so you have it charged.
OK, so that works! long as you time it right you'll be able to stall for 40 turns before taking full damage, meaning you can 0 stone hades as well. Just keep enough hearts on hand so that you can recover before Hera hits.
Avallon
Member
I enjoy this game, but this article about F2P monetization specifically mentions P&D as a practitioner of the most diabolical of money making schemes. I will continue to play this game (and not spend money), but just a warning for those who may not realize they're "in too deep"
Read the rest of this article here as it is super interesting
Read the rest of this article here as it is super interesting
MMBosstones86
Member
um I disagree. Specially with the point they mentioned here being the reason to get people to spend money. They get people to spend money by the goddamn Rare pull machine during godfest and the whole 'increase multiplier OMG!!' that happens during events (cue : 3 x 0 = 0).
If you are spending money the way they suggest, you are doing it wrong. It's a strategy game that penalizes you for picking a wrong strategy, I don't see anything wrong with that.
Ugh, I'm stuck in Hera Descended. Killing the mobs in here is taking forever because of the only real attacks I have are from Lucifer's Morning Star.
My team is Persephone, Keeper, Keeper, Lilith, Drawn Joker, Lucifer
I've been doing good so far, managing my health, using half damage from Keepers, and setting up big health returns after a Morning Star hit. I'm currently on Neptune, and Hades is after that, and then Hera. This is pretty nerve wracking, as I really want to get Hera and finally have her.
My team is Persephone, Keeper, Keeper, Lilith, Drawn Joker, Lucifer
I've been doing good so far, managing my health, using half damage from Keepers, and setting up big health returns after a Morning Star hit. I'm currently on Neptune, and Hades is after that, and then Hera. This is pretty nerve wracking, as I really want to get Hera and finally have her.
Avallon
Member
Nothing wrong with it. Just a warning and an interesting read. I think PAD is on the lower end of the "evil" scale, personally.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I made my objections about the article known in the thread.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=66947296
Idiot wannabe journos who don't do basic research about their subject material.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=66947296
Idiot wannabe journos who don't do basic research about their subject material.
By this guys logic Final Fight would be the true embodiment of evil monetization schemes. Maybe he's too young to have played in a coin op arcade.
MMBosstones86
Member
adding a link for a mobile site...for shame.
Agreed. Believe me, there are PLENTY of things to bitch about PADs demonetization strategy, but the one they picked is by far the least.
On a side note....I'm finally ready to evo my Pengdras after dungeon run today...no muthafuckin seeds. lkjqfw.,mnv;oi2eru
I'm sure there are some players out there spending their money in the way the author of this article is suggesting, but I think PAD would be making way more money if the money spending players were spending money on dungeon loses. Like MMBosstones86 mentioned, most of the money/stone spending comes from people trying to collect monsters from the Rare Egg machine, not through dungeon loses.
I don't see PAD as some diabolical money making scheme though. You can play this game without spending a dime as long as you have patience.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
lol like GAF isn't blocked on my work computer.
Again the points the author brings up about PAD are exactly the ones somebody who played the game for less than a day would bring up. They might have had a valid point had they studied what whales like tubegameplayer actually spend stones towards.
Again the points the author brings up about PAD are exactly the ones somebody who played the game for less than a day would bring up. They might have had a valid point had they studied what whales like tubegameplayer actually spend stones towards.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Took forever. and now Im going to run it two more times.
Goig to replace the dub mithlit with Siren I think so I can change fire to health once I get onto Hera (no hearts so I used a stone, worth it though).
I actually died horribly on Hades (not enough health to tank a half hit), so I'm thinking of farming metals today for kings to feed to my other Dark types to get their health up. I may also need a max level Seraphim Lucifer friend.
Yeah I used raiods Lucifer to do it. Starting another run now. Also Im not really sure, but you might need another keeper.
MMBosstones86
Member
Do you have Resist available? I ran with D/D Hades and Odin which knocks down 90% of the Damage. I have my Hades up if you are able to use Odin or something similar. I'm in the spreadsheet.
Odin + 2 Max SL Sirens really made things easier on the boss fights. Mobs were still a bitch though
Avallon
Member
As much as you disagree with the man's summation of F2P games, calling him an idiot wannabe journo is a bit off base. I'll assume since your on your phone, this will be new information to you, but the man who wrote this is (a la Linkedin):
a Consultant at Nickelodeon
an Economy and Monetization Consultant at Another Major Developer
a Monetization Designer at A Big Game Developer
a Contributing Writer at Gamasutra.com
an Applied Virtual Economist and Monetization Designer at Independent Researcher
He is the man who is responsible for how these games are monetized, and I greatly appreciate his industry insight into how that works. It's bold to report on your own profession in such a negative light, and I think his article should be praised, not vilified.
I think you're reaching here dude, or trying to defend him just to defend him. Are you the guy who wrote the article?
But seriously, that article reeks of not actually plumbing the depths of research necessary to understand how the game works psychologically as opposed to the way he suggests it does. It's shallow journalism.
Avallon
Member
I think you're reaching here dude, or trying to defend him just to defend him. Are you the guy who wrote the article?
But seriously, that article reeks of not actually plumbing the depths of research necessary to understand how the game works psychologically as opposed to the way he suggests it does. It's shallow journalism.
No... didn't write the article (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ramin-shokrizade/0/b47/7bb), was just impressed by the information contained within.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Were you impressed by said information because it sounded science-y despite the flaws with his insight that the more knowledgeable have pointed out? I guess that's how the stereotypes about consultants got started.
Avallon
Member
I was impressed that he was willing to expose monetization methods (which just sound pure evil) to the people who buy his games. Maybe people on GAF don't buy the way he claims consumers do, but I'd be willing to the bet that most people do.
Unless his Linkedin profile is fake, his assertions comes from a place of knowledge.
Fragamemnon
Member
Dude used to make thousands a month farming and selling MMO items and currency to people, then decided to legitimate title and become a consultant bearing the title of virtual economist.
He's legit, though this article is super duper lazy in a lot of ways.
He's legit, though this article is super duper lazy in a lot of ways.
burntchomsky
Member
As expected, I'm stuck farming the stupid friday dungeon trying to get the very last dub-topalit needed to evolve hades so that I can run hera. This game can just be so enraging at times. Whenever you need something to drop, it won't. Then you end up with a surplus with it the day after you needed it.
Edit: Also, can anyone tell me if I ultimate evolve a monster already at a level, does it maintain the level it is at or does it go back to level 1 after the ultimate evo?
Edit: Also, can anyone tell me if I ultimate evolve a monster already at a level, does it maintain the level it is at or does it go back to level 1 after the ultimate evo?
That's great and all, but the point we're getting at is that he essentially wrote bullshit based on assumptions of what he THOUGHT was the monetization scheme for PAD. You get enough free stones that the casual player continuing play in the same fashion he explains won't get them a dime, they just added enough depth that those players could eventually grow into endgame players where you must have that certain monster for a team. He's not far off from the answer, just that it's plain obvious he used his professional knowledge to come to a conclusion instead of doing any real research.
The fact that he's off base here doesn't make him any less of a professional on his field. Don't mix those two up.
Avallon
Member
I am one of those casual players. I haven't spent a dime on this game, but once you get to a certain point (which I suspect I'm at now) progress slows to a halt. I'm very slowly powering through, but I think I may drop this game for the 3DS version when we get it. I love how it plays, but I feel like it would be much more fun without the F2P restrictions, and I'm hoping the 3DS title scratches that itch.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Players who don't understand that the eggs you get from the dungeons are trash might at first. Then they learn those were common mobs and that there's really no harm done by quitting the dungeon and losing those collected eggs. But somebody who quit the game early on would never come to that realization.
Ironically the players I've seen who give up at PAD before Castle of Satan are exactly the ones described in the article: the ones who complain that the game is too hard and stone when they die rather than try to figure out a new game plan. They quit cause the game is boring and unrewarding.
Meanwhile I guarantee that every invested player, both in this thread and elsewhere, will claim that clearing a dungeon without spending any IAP is the ideal play, and that being forced to spend stones is a actually a negative feedback mechanism! Seems completely contrary to what was stated in the article, no?
If we keep running on the PAD scheme, it'll go like this:
You hit a "wall." I'm assuming this is Castle of Satan or something of the like. You used stones randomly, you got a "half decent" rare off the first pull, that doesn't let you get far enough. At this point, a lot of people will call it quits. Others will start doing research, and get insight on a few things:
Re-rolling till you get a God. "but I've gotten so far on this game!" People that can't chalk up a loss here will be gone. Those that do decide they want a strong starting character, will spend a few hours and get a satisfactory god. You blow past your previous 'walls,' until things start slowing down again. You need to do some end-game dungeons to get better stuff to make your farming go faster, or so that you can get away from that dark PT that you always relied on.
Godfest rolls around. There's that Horus/Isis/Orochi/etc that you wanted, waiting for you on a silver platter. You got 30 free stones saved up, go all out... and nothing. "eh, I've spent enough time on this game, I could donate some cash!" there goes 23 bucks. No dice on the rolls, but you get a Siren that you always wanted.
"OK, a few more times!" There goes another 23 bucks. Nothing. At this point you got some folks that'll keep going, others that'll call it quits on the roll. Either way, there's plenty of leveling to be done and farming to be done, and you likely won't turn away a player here. The stuff you 'didnt want' likely translates to another setup, so unless that Horus was the ONLY thing you wanted, most people should walk away somewhat satisfied. This, I believe, is the true scheme behind PAD; in places like Japan where it's major (or on forums where you have more support), the stuck/quit part is alleviated, because as soon as you run into it people will tell you the solution (reroll), and the fact that it's not nearly as difficult as it sounds at the level where the players are at.
Again, he's right that players have something invested in the game and that's how they get their money; he's just wrong on HOW they get people to spend the money, and as many folks here have explained, that's because he never got over the hump where you have the option of becoming a big IAP player.
Avallon
Member
I feel like what you are describing is a small minority of players. This game is number one on the app store. Games that are number one on the app store do not have a majority of players who do research on how to spend the least amount of money possible.
People will hit a wall and drop a few bucks to get past it; most people with this game installed on their phone are not doing zero-stone Hera runs or rerolling to get a God.
Tonner Cyn
Member
Any suggestions? I do have a few more red pengras I can use on Echidna and I can try to get a bit more metal for the dark pieces.
#1 where? In Japan. In the US it's in the top 20-50 on the "grossing side" but that's about as far as it's getting right now, which I see as a sign that in the US, it's being supported by "whales." Most casuals won't ever find this game, and when they do, there's enough stones that light players likely won't ever spend a cent, or feel vested enough in the game to pay.
And it got that way because of steps I described above. The difficulty makes it a perfect "communication game," sort of like how Monster Hunter is/was one way you could interact w/ acquaintances. The depth of play means you got puzzle elements and party setup, along w/ farming efficiency, that could be talked and debated about. The friends system obligates you to play every once in a while to stay in the loop. Requirements for end-game dungeons means that to "keep up" you're going to pay a hefty sum to get your leaders and party good and proper.
atlantaguy
Member
You need Echidna to save time on Zeus and potentially the chimeras if you can fit it in. Every turn that Zeus is alive is a stone spent, so she is very important. I would recommend Loki leader with Duke, Hera, Hera, Echidna, and a Zues friend. Duke's orb change on such a short timer could be crucial which is why I suggested him instead of CDK, in addition to overall better stats.
burntchomsky
Member
Can someone throw up a high level awoken green odin?
I will be leaving my level 45 w/b hades up for the duration of hera today, fyi.
I will be leaving my level 45 w/b hades up for the duration of hera today, fyi.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
There is no incentive for players to continue playing in the "spend money to continue until you clear wall" method. The article posits that the motivation is because of reward removal; however once players realize that said rewards are common drops through extended play that motivation vanishes.
In fact certain bosses later in the game are either extremely time-consuming (on the order of hours) or flat out impossible to clear if you attempt to beat it via IAP attrition. Eventually players will claim bullshit and quit the game.
The cases where a rare, substantial reward monster does drop typically happens at the end of the dungeon, and in instances where the previous stipulation doesn't apply do not drop at a fixed rate. "Reward removal" only works when you assure the player will receive the reward if they pay up.
In the rare cases where a desirable monster does drop in the middle of a run and you fail to clear the dungeon, you absolutely should spend as much IAP as possible to clear that dungeon. I don't even need a finger to count the number of times this situation has occurred, and others here can probably do so with on one hand. This is not a sustainable business plan if reward removal is the dominant strategy.
Tonner Cyn
Member
Thanks. How many stones are we looking at?
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