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Puzzle & Dragons |OT3| Come for the rolls, stay for the trolls

Honestly this is the second time I have saved up 4-5 rolls and the second time I haven't gotten anything above a gold egg. The only notable things I have pulled out of all my rolls since I started this account are Kirin, LZhuge, and Ra. I was considering buying a pack of 85 on my birthday but I think this game has ruined any potential of me becoming a paying customer.
 

colinp

Banned
Shaitan

So I waited six hours and rolled again later...

Fallen Angel Lucifer
Leviathan (dupe)

FA Luc is good, right? What uvo should I chase for him?
 
Had 25 stones saved up, rolled four times.

Odin, the War Deity
Ares
Sleeping Dragon, Zhuge Liang
Earth Golem (...)

Also had a Pal Egg roll, and got another Rainbow Keeper.

EDIT: Reading up on them, it seems like I already have a potential team for Zhuge Liang in my box (Thumbelina, BAO Robin, Asgard, Copperhead) so I might look into working on that group now. What about Odin? His optimal stats look ridiculously high.
 

Uthred

Member
First roll: Mystic stone knight - emotions everywhere
Second roll: Gold Egg! - Andromeda - dupe, never use my current one, why did I let myself believe?

A stone short, so coughed up the cash and bought one.

Third roll: Gold Egg! - Green Odin - Really happy with this, wanted this guy since the glory days of OT1
 

Ducarmel

Member
2 rolls

First roll silver egg Ivory dragon

Against my better judgement did a second roll

Gold +egg Dragon Shogun

I don't even know how am i supposed to him, I am not ready for padz trolling. Hopefully one day he will be useful with an ultimate evolution.

I still got 3 more pulls but I think I'm done.
 
Got Ronia, Red Guan Yu, Baal, Dragon Rider.
Really happy, crazy getting 2 of the Sonias in consecutive God fests.

Uevo'd Light Meta on my JP account only to realize she costs 60 and there is no way I can fit her on any team right now. God Damn it sucks to be at low ranks.


Beat Thoth & Sopdet Legend with D/W Batman, not really sure how to tackle Mythical yet.
 
Undine
Berry Dragon
Sea Serpent

May roll a couple more times later. I haven't gotten a gold egg in like 10 rolls so I'm bound to get one eventually...
 

damisa

Member
Had 8 rolls, got
Verche
Thanatos
Genie
tempted to give up here...

Belial
Ronia! (most wanted monster)
Amon
Karin

then my last roll had an error an I lost my stones and don't know what I got.
 

am_dragon

Member
Had 8 rolls, got
Verche
Thanatos
Genie
tempted to give up here...

Belial
Ronia! (most wanted monster)
Amon
Karin

then my last roll had an error an I lost my stones and don't know what I got.

It will be the last "NEW" card in your box, sort by chronological (CHR) order.

Congrats on the Ronia by the way.
 

Quantum

Member
Haven't decided If I will iap roll, money not the issue, but I really feel like each account has a seed and the rolls are based on that.

It would account for the frequency I roll the exact same god.


I did 2 free (recent stone) rolls and landed my fourth anubis and a grape dragon - third.


I would like and isis, baset, apollo, hermes or amon but with my "seed" I doubt I'll get anything other than Grodin, Parvati, GGY, or Anubis.

I can also now say I doubt I'll be rage pulling after going out - I made my yolo pulls after a night out - at 3:10 am est and didn't bother buying a pack.

I think if this game were on parity with the JP version I would be more inclined to pull, but the game is finally loosing its magic for me and am playing less aggressively.
 

Okamid3n

Member
I got a Belial, a golem and a fake gold (evolved Siren).

I have a lot of fire cards now, I wonder if I could fit Belial somewhere...

Current line up:
Yamato lead, Rodin, Chiyome, Echidna, Gigas.
Other red cards: Shiva, Belial, Dino Rider.

On a side note, I got a Jewel of Darkness from the Pal eggs! Didn't know you could get jewels from it, awesome. Just need a light jewel now to evolve my Ceres.
 

Okamid3n

Member
Yamato loves Belial's row enhancements and skill boosts. He's a good fit for that team.

But he changes green to fire, which Yamato already does. Plus, no skill ups! So he'd just be another row-enhance/skill boost stick like Rodin, it seems.

Mostly I have a hard time seeing who he'd replace, and why I'd use him over Shiva.
 
Honestly this is the second time I have saved up 4-5 rolls and the second time I haven't gotten anything above a gold egg. The only notable things I have pulled out of all my rolls since I started this account are Kirin, LZhuge, and Ra. I was considering buying a pack of 85 on my birthday but I think this game has ruined any potential of me becoming a paying customer.
Are you rolling all 4-5 non-golds right after one another? Stop for an hour+ and roll again later if you get a non-gold. Could just be confirmation bias but it seems to work ever since I adopted this approach.

Gungho's RNG feels super borked so maybe there's something to it.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
So I rolled today and got a great God I should be happy... But it's U&Y again lol. I already own him. He is useless for me right... ? Damn...
 

Okamid3n

Member
Are you rolling all 4-5 non-golds right after one another? Stop for an hour+ and roll again later if you get a non-gold. Could just be confirmation bias but it seems to work ever since I adopted this approach.

Gungho's RNG feels super borked so maybe there's something to it.

It's really not. It would be pretty easy to test if Gungho's RNG during Godfest follows a random distribution or not (atleast as far as the odds of getting any God goes), and with how popular the game is, I'm sure someone in Japan with way too much cash made a few hundred rolls in a godfest and fed the data to a computer to check.

If it's truly random, you're certain to have huge streaks of bad luck in a row. Absolutely certain.

Let's assume, as some data gathering I've seen from the pad forums said, that the odds of getting a God during a godfest is around 30%. Then, if you've pulled the REM 100 times in your pad career, the odds that you had a 7-bad-rolls streak or worse is 95%, assuming the RNG is completely random.

It's basically certain that at some point, if you play a lot, you're going to pull the dragon, and the dragon will refuse to grant you anything good for 7 times in a row.
 
So I rolled today and got a great God I should be happy... But it's U&Y again lol. I already own him. He is useless for me right... ? Damn...
Haha, wow. Keep one unevolved for low rarity S-ranks and no-dupe dungeons, I suppose. Or hope he gets a second ult in the future.

It's really not. It would be pretty easy to test if Gungho's RNG follows a random distribution or not, and with how popular the game is, I'm sure someone in Japan with way too much cash made a few hundred rolls in a godfest and fed the data to a computer to check.

If it's truly random, you're certain to have huge streaks of bad luck in a row. Absolutely certain.

Let's assume, as some data gathering I've seen from the pad forums said, that the odds of getting a God during a godfest is around 30%. Then, if you've pulled the REM 100 times in your pad career, the odds that you had a 7-bad-rolls streak or worse is 95%, assuming the RNG is completely random.

It's basically certain that at some point, if you play a lot, you're going to pull the dragon, and the dragon will refuse to grant you anything good for 7 times in a row.
Got any links to the math behind this? Not because I don't believe you but I'm interested in the calculations. I've been trying to find info on whether hot/cold streaks are common in a truly random set of events. I realize that one would eventually run into a big streak when playing over a large period of time but I see streaks of 3 consecutive golds often (I definitely concede selection/confirmation bias could be in play here). It would make sense for something that's 50/50 like heads/tails to have frequent short streaks since it's only 1/8th chance of seeing 3 in a row but 3 golds is supposedly 27/1000 or 2.7%.
 
I just realized I have a Snow Globe Dragon Vert in my inventory. So my best option for leveling Zhuge Liang is to get him to evolve, then max my Vert, then feed it to evolved Zhuge right?
 

Okamid3n

Member
Haha, wow. Keep one unevolved for low rarity S-ranks and no-dupe dungeons, I suppose. Or hope he gets a second ult in the future.


Got any links to the math behind this? Not because I don't believe you but I'm interested in the calculations. I've been trying to find info on whether hot/cold streaks are common in a truly random set of events. I realize that one would eventually run into a big streak when playing over a large period of time but I see streaks of 3 consecutive golds often (I definitely concede selection/confirmation bias could be in play here).

It'd take too long to explain here, but read up on the stochastic probability matrix. Here's the matrix I used for my 7-in-a-row calculation:

http://i.imgur.com/njJdL5h.jpg

And here's the matrix raised to the 100th power:

http://i.imgur.com/UTMNnX2.jpg

How to read the answer: The first row, 8th column square, which says 0.94918, means that you started at 0 bad eggs (no rolls yet) and ended with atleast one streak of 7 somewhere along the way, 94.918% of the time.


As for the odds of getting 3 consecutive golds, it's pretty likely too. In just 10 rolls, you have a 15.5% chance of getting 3 REM-exclusives in a row, let alone gold eggs in general.
 
It'd take too long to explain here, but read up on the stochastic probability matrix. Here's the matrix I used for my 7-in-a-row calculation:

http://i.imgur.com/njJdL5h.jpg

And here's the matrix raised to the 100th power:

http://i.imgur.com/UTMNnX2.jpg

How to read the answer: The first row, 8th column square, which says 0.94918, means that you started at 0 bad eggs (no rolls yet) and ended with atleast one streak of 7 somewhere along the way, 94.918% of the time.


As for the odds of getting 3 consecutive golds, it's pretty likely too. In just 10 rolls, you have a 15.5% chance of getting 3 REM-exclusives in a row, let alone gold eggs in general.
Thanks for this. I guess considering just the probability of 3 golds in a row instead of 3 out of a larger sample is the wrong way of looking at it.
 

Quantum

Member
assuming the RNG is completely random.

I have never been able to do this, nor has it ever been stated that it is.

In fact, the concept of a "godfest" in and of itself proves that there is order to the RNG - so any assumptions using calculations based on pure randomness are false.
 

Okamid3n

Member
I have never been able to do this, nor has it ever been stated that it is.

In fact, the concept of a "godfest" in and of itself proves that there is order to the RNG - so any assumptions using calculations based on pure randomness are false.

Ugh, fine, let's get technical.

"Assuming the odds of getting a god in a godfest follows approximately a binomial distribution", then.

This is very, very testable, if you roll yourself a lot in a row and note it down. And it's ridiculously easy to have your RNG approximate a binomial distribution.

Want to know how to test it? Here's one way:

Roll 300 times, find what % of your pulls were god, calculate theoretically how many times you should see sequences such as GGGG, GGGN, GGNG, GGNN, etc, where G=REM god, and N= not a god. Then, compare it to your data. If you get about the same frequency of such sequences in your sample, then the sample follows closely a binomial distribution, which is to say, the odds are fixed during the godfest period.

Of course, RNG can't be truly random, but that's completely besides the point.
 

Quantum

Member
Ugh, fine, let's get technical.

"Assuming the odds of getting a god in a godfest follows approximately a binomial distribution", then.

This is very, very testable, if you roll yourself a lot in a row and note it down. And it's ridiculously easy to have your RNG approximate a binomial distribution.

Want to know how to test it? Here's one way:

Roll 300 times, find what % of your pulls were god, calculate theoretically how many times you should see sequences such as GGGG, GGGN, GGNG, GGNN, etc, where G=REM god, and N= not a god. Then, compare it to your data. If you get about the same frequency of such sequences in your sample, then the sample follows closely a binomial distribution, which is to say, the odds are fixed during the godfest period.

Of course, RNG can't be truly random, but that's completely besides the point.

I apologize, I was not calling you out.

the math is impeccable.

the company is suspect.

What I've mentioned in a few posts is that what the RNG aproximates as random is based more likely on a pseudorandom number generator which uses a seed for each user.

this seed selection can explain both why there is seeming randomness and the fact that there is bias that can exist.

I would argue that using a poor prng would be better for a 'gatcha' because it almost guarantees that there is an approximation of an even distribution without needing to have one. This seed can also explain why certain users see multiples of the same god.


secondly - assuming that the rates don't change over time is incorrect as well. Gungho can and does manipulate the drop rate for every dungeon by the hour (increased drop rates 1.5% over the week for "x" hours). There is no reason to think that the rates during the godfest have to stay the same for each god over the course of the godfest.


I definitely was not trying to be picky or overly technical, I was actually arguing the opposite - that by trying to be picky and technical we are trying to assign numbers to something that is being given to us by a for profit company that has recently had to drop its stamina rates in JP because it is not fairing as well as it was 1 yer ago. I do not believe for a second that Gungho has my best interest in mind but they want my money.

I play and will be addicted to this game until the next, better one comes out - I have supported the game more than most (I have purchased 15 - 85 stone packs at full price) I have also posted my PADherder and do have a great selection of mobs/cards.

I do not believe for a second that the drops are random.
 
What is Baal good for? It's the only demon I didn't want, so of course, it pops out first roll. I don't have any notable light monsters aside from Valk, Zeus, Athena. Can't believe Baal is my first REM exclusive light monster.
 

Okamid3n

Member
I apologize, I was not calling you out.

the math is impeccable.

the company is suspect.

What I've mentioned in a few posts is that what the RNG aproximates as random is based more likely on a pseudorandom number generator which uses a seed for each user.

this seed selection can explain both why there is seeming randomness and the fact that there is bias that can exist.

I would argue that using a poor prng would be better for a 'gatcha' because it almost guarantees that there is an approximation of an even distribution without needing to have one. This seed can also explain why certain users see multiples of the same god.


secondly - assuming that the rates don't change over time is incorrect as well. Gungho can and does manipulate the drop rate for every dungeon by the hour (increased drop rates 1.5% over the week for "x" hours). There is no reason to think that the rates during the godfest have to stay the same for each god over the course of the godfest.


I definitely was not trying to be picky or overly technical, I was actually arguing the opposite - that by trying to be picky and technical we are trying to assign numbers to something that is being given to us by a for profit company that has recently had to drop its stamina rates in JP because it is not fairing as well as it was 1 yer ago. I do not believe for a second that Gungho has my best interest in mind but they want my money.

I play and will be addicted to this game until the next, better one comes out - I have supported the game more than most (I have purchased 15 - 85 stone packs at full price) I have also posted my PADherder and do have a great selection of mobs/cards.

I do not believe for a second that the drops are random.

Yeah, sorry for my somewhat aggressive reply. But I stand by what I said, peope love seeing patterns where there are none. Saying "I get a lot of gold/bad eggs in a row" or "some people get multiple dupes" is not, in any way, evidence of a controlled RNG, because this SHOULD happen a lot if the rng acted random.

"I would argue that using a poor prng would be better for a 'gatcha' because it almost guarantees that there is an approximation of an even distribution without needing to have one. This seed can also explain why certain users see multiples of the same god. "

That's the thing. I don't know how many gods there are, but I counted 13 pantheons with 5 gods each, and 15ish godfest exclusives. So, let's say 80ish gods in total.

As surprising as it is, If you pull just 10 gods out of a pool of 80, with each gods equally likely, you basically have a near-50% chance of getting a dupe. (For calculations, google "Birthday problem")

If, on the other hand, the gods are NOT equally likely (as in, godfests/galas/etc), your odds of pulling a dupe will go up, not down, unless you only aim godfests/galas where you own none of the gods at all.

Maybe Gungho seeds player, but I'm just saying that, we're not going to be able to notice from supposed patterns and forum hearsays, and it's harmful to the users to pretend otherwise. People start making up theories and spending money because they think they cracked the code.

If anything, if I was gungho and I wanted to seed the players, I'd make it so they're less likely than usual to get 7 bad pulls in a row. 7 bad pulls is enough to make people quit and stop spending money, they'll think the odds are rigged, even though it's perfectly normal.
 

Quantum

Member
Maybe Gungho seeds player, but I'm just saying that, we're not going to be able to notice from supposed patterns and forum hearsays, and it's harmful to the users to pretend otherwise. People start making up theories and spending money because they think they cracked the code.

completely agree.

Even if there is a pattern you wouldn't be able to replicate it, but thats a different argument.
 
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I wished really hard for an Anubis and Bastet and I got them both. So I have clearly cracked the code.

But seriously, I did just get those two pulls and I'm psyched. Two leaders I never had on my old account that I really wanted. I'm glad this account is turning out so different for me. Its keeping it from getting stale again.
 
Got any links to the math behind this? Not because I don't believe you but I'm interested in the calculations. I've been trying to find info on whether hot/cold streaks are common in a truly random set of events. I realize that one would eventually run into a big streak when playing over a large period of time but I see streaks of 3 consecutive golds often (I definitely concede selection/confirmation bias could be in play here). It would make sense for something that's 50/50 like heads/tails to have frequent short streaks since it's only 1/8th chance of seeing 3 in a row but 3 golds is supposedly 27/1000 or 2.7%.

I have to imagine that hot streaks might be a thing - pulled Ares, Krishna, Yamato Takeru, Amon, Green Guan Yu, Apocalypse, and Artemis all consecutively today. Just kept going with what I had until I didn't get a gold egg. Waited a little while longer and got FA Lucifer and Hermes consecutively.

I don't know that you could convince me that this is pure luck. But maybe it is. I'm sure people have gotten that many silver/star eggs in a row too. I've had pretty bad luck in the past too, so it might be confirmation bias.
 

ZeroAKA

Member
I've noticed that almost all of my good pulls have been either during or close to a player's choice carnival/Godfest. I will continue saving up my stones for those events.
 
It sucks needing a jewel orb from dungeons I don't need anything else from. I already max-skilled Takeminakata and Goemon and don't care for the Ocean God. I'll just have to wait until those orbs show up in better dungeons for me. Shame because those dungeons are pretty easy to clear, too.

Sopdet and Thoth were pretty easy with my Sakuya team. I was able to stall forever on them, while waiting for the proper colored orbs to be on the board. Sopdet making Hearts every turn makes it a breeze. The only tweak to my team was swapping out Echidna for Ra to get past Ra. Apollo still covered red for the team.

Too bad I don't care for either boss drop. I wonder what the drop rates for the Chasers are. I didn't get one in either of my runs.
 

Jonsoncao

Banned
Wife pulled 20ish times. Notable mentions are

Rodins x2
Ronia (her second)
Baal
Astaroth
Green GY (third dupe)
Andromeda
Ares
Anubis
Isis (dupe)
Horus
Avalon Drake x2 (I didn't know PADz has come to US, perfect for her Athena/GZL team)

Total stats are 18 gold and 9 silver.

I only have 17 stones, decided not to pull the trigger.
 

xCobalt

Member
I got the Green Guan Yu after 3 or 4 pulls. Is he a viable leader? Can't really think of any green physical monsters for him to mesh well with.
 
A lot of no luck today

Failed a mythical run of the new descend (Ronia lu bu team), failed legendary with kirin, finally passed legendary with the Ronia teAm. Any tips on mythical teams?

Rolled water dragon knight (the new one), a bastard salamander (where were you months ago), a mystic fire knight (hate gungho after pulling one of these during godfest)

Finally a gold egg (only one today) ares, a new one not optimal but new,

Final roll - 4* dark golem.

So godfest was a bust, time to save for DC collab...
 

razterik

Member
Too bad I don't care for either boss drop. I wonder what the drop rates for the Chasers are. I didn't get one in either of my runs.

Really low, like 5%. I watched quite a few YouTube runs and never saw them drop.

Took legend and mythical with Blue Sonia. Failed a couple runs from dumb mistakes. Got Thoth, not going back for Sopdet until they get buffed in the future.

I got the Green Guan Yu after 3 or 4 pulls. Is he a viable leader? Can't really think of any green physical monsters for him to mesh well with.

He adds dragons to his leader skill in a later update, which opens up quite a few more options. His typing remains god/physical, though, so his burst options are still somewhat limited.
 

hermit7

Member
Attempted take for red orb today on Mythical. Was successful with my blonia team thankfully. And got Lelian to invade. Now all I need is to level hera and evo her.
 

Jagernaut

Member
Finally ultimate evolved my Hera-Ur! It took 7 runs of Takeminakata Mythical to get 2 red orbs (got 1 from the gift dungeon). Easy clears with my Ronia / Lu Bu team.

Ronia
Ronia
Ronia
Hera-Ur
D/D Haku
Lu Bu

I already have 1 dark orb for my first Ronia's ultimate, I need a blue orb for DTron.
 

hermit7

Member
I need to do this for a Purple when Ronia's alt comes around, Who drops that?

Looks like it is Heracles. Easily doable with a Ronia/lubu devil team. Or a mono-fire team considering the cooldowns may be challenging with only 5 floors. With Ronia, and LuBu you're looking at stalling around 17 fully awaken with Lubu. Add in some other subs and you may only need to stall for around 10...

If possible it may be ideal to add some lower cd subs for Gigas.
 
Looks like it is Heracles. Easily doable with a Ronia/lubu devil team. Or a mono-fire team considering the cooldowns may be challenging with only 5 floors. With Ronia, and LuBu you're looking at stalling around 17 fully awaken with Lubu. Add in some other subs and you may only need to stall for around 10...

If possible it may be ideal to add some lower cd subs for Gigas.

Thanks i'll look this up.
 
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