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[vcc]

For games? Zilch. Although it does eradicate the Myth 2 uninstall scenario from ever happening, lol.

But it does provide a bit of peace of mind when downloading things from the net. And I am not even referring to the big things, which usually have their own large distribution infrastructure, but the small things that someone might want. You don't have to go to some small website and worry about whether this thing you want to download is legit and checking around the web to ensure it is. You can have peace of mind that it won't shit your registry to pieces, it wont leave crap during uninstall, it wont install in weird areas, etc. That certainly seems to have benefit from point of view for both devs and consumers since smaller devs of smaller software might be able to get a wider audience from that. And that is even without them bothering to through the Windows Store. And that is not even touching on the sandboxed nature of the runtime itself in that you can be sure they wont be messing with other processes on your computer in harmful ways. And that last bit is the part that really affect pc games. Although, I foresee Win32 software to be able to penetrate that sandbox.

So it only benifits computer novices who will download stuff at random? But won't they still download stuff at random? The regitry issue is just replaced. UWP takes a lot of control from the user and the stuff you normal programs do in the registry are just substituted by UWP methods of the same things.

You get some more security from having it signed by MS and having a less user access but those are only issues for folks who have intrinsic issues with being an idiot.

Veterans users are just going to be annoyed at the seizing of control and having previous 'expert' options closed off.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

That's the problem, monster PCs shouldn't run any game at 1080p. Not locked at 60fps on top of that.

It's a true next gen game tho...the effects and insanity going on screen is unlike anything we've seen. QB imo is the first real 'next gen' game that's released in terms of graphics and effects. It just couldn't be done on last gen. A game like that was always gonna require a nuke plant to run on ultra @ 60 fps, let alone 4k 30-60 fps.

 

[Grief.exe]

It's a true next gen game tho...the effects and insanity going on screen is unlike anything we've seen. QB imo is the first real 'next gen' game that's released in terms of graphics and effects. It just couldn't be done on last gen. A game like that was always gonna require a nuke plant to run on ultra @ 60 fps, let alone 4k 30-60 fps.

Please understand that these 980ti/i7 combos are likely beyond, or at least equivalent, to XB2/PS5.

So if users are having dips below 60 at 1080p,which is actually not even rendering 1080p in Quantum Break, than there is a definite issue.

 

[GHG]

What point did you prove? MS has explicitly stated that quite a few of these technical issues will be addressed in an upcoming update.

Now you can ASSUME they are lying. But the announcements were made directly to developers...

Regarding Forza, There you go mischaracterizing comments again... When did I say it was ok to not have peripheral support?

The person I was talking to said he didn't want to spend money on a product that didn't have it. I let him know that said product isn't being offered for money...

Again, with the peripherals, we have a UWP limitation, that is scheduled to be addressed in an update. so again, it's not an inherent flaw with the principle of UWP.

In short: not ok, but unlike modding, will be fixed.


It seems like you are cool with selective reasoning... You'll assume Remedy is right about the quit button (even though we know they are wrong, simply by looking at all the other UWP games). We know which issues are UWP related, and even Remedy suggests that MS will be removing those limitations in the future. But you'll gloss over that right?

You're talking about assumptions vs facts. The facts are there for all to see at the moment, there are a ton of problems with UWP at the moment. Then we have the assumptions that "it will be fixed". Forgive me and other people for waiting until they are actually implemented (or at the very least have an implementation date) considering Microsofts shady past where they have promised on a whole host of things but never actually delivered. Saying "it will be fixed in the future" is useless for people who are experiencing issues with the platform at the moment. When will it be fixed? That is the important question that needs answering.

My point on Forza is just because it's free it doesn't make it ok for it to lack features that have been industry standards on the platform for decades. Again you can say "it will be fixed" or something similar but what will that look like? Support for Xbox supported wheels only? Will it support all wheels from all manufacturers? Will other common racing peripherals such as trackIR work? The answer is nobody knows. The one fact that we do have however is that wheels will not be supported at launch. That's pretty telling.

As for Remedy. They have released a game that is not fit for purpose on the platform and their FAQ is full of deflection. They are basically saying "that's UWP's fault", "that's Microsofts fault", "that's UWP's fault". They have also suggested that Microsoft will be removing some of those limitations in the future but yet they can't tell their paying customers when. That's not a good look.

 

[JaggedSac]

So it only benifits computer novices who will download stuff at random? But won't they still download stuff at random? The regitry issue is just replaced. UWP takes a lot of control from the user and the stuff you normal programs do in the registry are just substituted by UWP methods of the same things.

You get some more security from having it signed by MS and having a less user access but those are only issues for folks who have intrinsic issues with being an idiot.

Veterans users are just going to be annoyed at the seizing of control and having previous 'expert' options closed off.

Registry issue is replaced? Explain that please. Even projects converted using project centennial are guaranteed to not have registry issues on install/uninstall.

Signing is also only as secure as the trustedness of providers. Ask Apple, there were a bunch of valid certs given to malware. It is certainly a step that gates off a bunch of mal-intentioned developers though.

 

[LordRaptor]

Their future is building a platform where the hardware does not matter. Only display and feature sets differentiating them.

Hardware is always going to matter.
Unless we're getting into the realms of Wetware neural interfaces, which are - optimistically - decades away from being possible, and probably centuries away from being socially ready for.

Windows 8 was almost universally loathed because it assumed (and attempted to force) a touchscreen paradigm onto a system that with few exceptions has no touchscreen.

There are some commonalities between a mouse and a touchscreen - click, doubleclick, drag - but there are also absolute differences; 'right click'. 'pinch'.
Add in a controller or a keyboard, and the differences vastly outweigh the commonalities.

 

[vcc]

It's a true next gen game tho...the effects and insanity going on screen is unlike anything we've seen. QB imo is the first real 'next gen' game that's released in terms of graphics and effects. It just couldn't be done on last gen. A game like that was always gonna require a nuke plant to run on ultra @ 60 fps, let alone 4k 30-60 fps.

It very literally last gen animation. Last gen gameplay. Last gen level design. Last gen resolution. Last gen everything but faces and a next gen overload of many last gen effects on top of each other.

 

[Durante]

Registry issue is replaced? Explain that please. Even projects converted using project centennial are guaranteed to not have registry issues on install/uninstall.

Can you really count this as an advantage for UWP?

It's trivial to write a Win32 application which doesn't store its settings in the registry.

 

[BruceCLea]

It runs well on my PC on Ultra 1080p 60fps.

I have a 6700k i7, 980ti, 24 gb ddr4 ram

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Please understand that these 980ti/i7 combos are likely beyond XB2/PS5.

Yeah I'm well aware. It's still a leap ahead of any other game released this gen in terms of effects. I'm interested in seeing benchmarks @ xb1 level of detail and res...what kind of setup does that take? Let's say xb1 is low to medium settings but what resolution? 720pish? DF analysis and benchmarks are gonna be glorious

 

[SPDIF]

You're talking about assumptions vs facts. The facts are there for all to see at the moment, there are a ton of problems with UWP at the moment. Then we have the assumptions that "it will be fixed". Forgive me and other people for waiting until they are actually implemented (or at the very least have an implementation date) considering Microsofts shady past where they have promised on a whole host of things but never actually delivered. Saying "it will be fixed in the future" is useless for people who are experiencing issues with the platform at the moment. When will it be fixed? That is the important question that needs answering.

My point on Forza is just because it's free it doesn't make it ok for it to lack features that have been industry standards on the platform for decades. Again you can say "it will be fixed" or something similar but what will that look like? Support for Xbox supported wheels only? Will it support all wheels from all manufacturers? Will other common racing peripherals such as trackIR work? The answer is nobody knows. The one fact that we do have however is that wheels will not be supported at launch. That's pretty telling.

As for Remedy. They have released a game that is not fit for purpose on the platform and their FAQ is full of deflection. They are basically saying "that's UWP's fault", "that's Microsofts fault", "that's UWP's fault". They have also suggested that Microsoft will be removing some of those limitations in the future but yet they can't tell their paying customers when. That's not a good look.

May. That's what they said at Build.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

It runs well on my PC on Ultra 1080p 60fps.

I have a 6700k i7, 980ti, 24 gb ddr4 ram

lmao christ

Can you up the res and tell us how it goes? can you get 25-30 fps with ultra @ 4k with that?

 

[spyshagg]

"... lets launch the game like this. We'll fix it if someone notices. EH EH EH EH EH $ $ $".

Its either this or there are monkeys doing their job.


Respect! lol

 

[Trup1aya]

And software development tools. Which, unless massive changes happen to UWP, will be using Win32.

Yeah, perhaps that too.

 

[SlimySnake]

It very literally last gen animation. Last gen gameplay. Last gen level design. Last gen resolution. Last gen everything but faces and a next gen overload of many last gen effects on top of each other.

This is such a bizarre post. This game looks almost as good as the Order. Graphics wise this is as next gen as its gets.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Modern PC games are also entirely digital, so a publisher has zero infrastructure or logisitics costs to cover as part of the sticker price.

What do you mean entirely digital? I buy plenty of "modern" pc games at retail.

 

[JaggedSac]

Hardware is always going to matter.
Unless we're getting into the realms of Wetware neural interfaces, which are - optimistically - decades away from being possible, and probably centuries away from being socially ready for.

Windows 8 was almost universally loathed because it assumed (and attempted to force) a touchscreen paradigm onto a system that with few exceptions has no touchscreen.

There are some commonalities between a mouse and a touchscreen - click, doubleclick, drag - but there are also absolute differences; 'right click'. 'pinch'.
Add in a controller or a keyboard, and the differences vastly outweigh the commonalities.

Input differences are trivialities when developing a common runtime platform. Like any properly designed software with a GUI, the view is seperate from logic and data. It also seems you might be conflating an OS with UWP as well, which I don't agree with.

 

[BruceCLea]

lmao christ

Can you up the res and tell us how it goes? can you get 25-30 fps with ultra @ 4k with that?

I'm using my 4K tv as a display. Thats odd. I can't go above 1080p in my settings. FRAPS doesn't work either but I can tell it runs at 60 fps. The cinematics are at 30 fps and the jump is jarring.

What's really weird is that when I lock the game to 30 fps it stutters like a motherfucker.

That aside, I'm really enjoying the game!

 

[nynt9]

The idea that unifying the Windows phone App Store into PC will make PC apps more secure is pretty hilarious considering there are so many fake/scam apps on the Windows phone store. At least was the case last time I used it about a year ago. And I remember a news story about a game (I think tomb raider) being sold on the store by an unauthorized no name person and when you downloaded it it was just a static screen.

This is such a bizarre post. This game looks almost as good as the Order. Graphics wise this is as next gen as its gets.

I think the post has quite a bit of truth, but goes a bit too far, but the game is nowhere near as good looking as the order. That game rendered a fully native image and had incredible texture work and PBR, and it's very hard to find unflattering shots of it. Whereas many shots I've seen from this game have quite a bit of unflattering character models and animations.

 

[nkarafo]

Whoa! Some nice N64 filtering right there...

 

[Movalpolos]

Yeah I'm well aware. It's still a leap ahead of any other game released this gen in terms of effects. I'm interested in seeing benchmarks @ xb1 level of detail and res...what kind of setup does that take? Let's say xb1 is low to medium settings but what resolution? 720pish? DF analysis and benchmarks are gonna be glorious

It's not a leap in anything.

 

[Saul]

At least was the case last time I used it about a year ago.

In that case you were using Windows Phone 8 / 8.1 I guess. The store has been much improved since Windows 10 Mobile.

 

[ethomaz]

This is such a bizarre post. This game looks almost as good as the Order. Graphics wise this is as next gen as its gets.

Strong disagree.

While it uses some nice effects the IQ is poor... there is nothing impressive in the game in terms of graphics.

And let's stop the comparison with The Order because you enter in a another level of IQ.

It's a true next gen game tho...the effects and insanity going on screen is unlike anything we've seen. QB imo is the first real 'next gen' game that's released in terms of graphics and effects. It just couldn't be done on last gen. A game like that was always gonna require a nuke plant to run on ultra @ 60 fps, let alone 4k 30-60 fps.

The PC port is bad... there is nothing that holds this game to play in 1080p@60@Ultra native on current hardware.

Like I said while the game have great effects everything else is low IQ... overall it not look what you expect from a polished next gen experience.

 

[nkarafo]

Whoa again! I just saw that. 70 euros?

REALLY?

They are doing all this so they sell more XBOX one consoles and the console version of the game right?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Strong disagree.

While it uses some nice effects the IQ is poor... there is nothing impressive in the game in terms of graphics.

Those poor artists

 

[ethomaz]

Those poor artists

Artists or programmers? I think the art style great... that have nothing to do with the bad IQ.

It the own dev fault.

 

[LordRaptor]

What do you mean entirely digital? I buy plenty of "modern" pc games at retail.

And in that box you will find a (most likely Steamworks) key to enter into a digital storefront.
If you're lucky you have a disk containing some of the files needed to run the game to save you some download bandwidth.
If you're REALLY lucky, there might even be an honest to goodness paper manual describing the game and its features, rather than a simple colour printed one page with some cursory publisher info.

Input differences are trivialities when developing a common runtime platform.

No, they're the necessary requirements that expose the lie inherent in the "write once run anywhere" myth.

 

[LewieP]

Whoa again! I just saw that. 70 euros?

REALLY?

They are doing all this so they sell more XBOX one consoles and the console version of the game right?

Were that their intent, releasing no PC version would achieve it more effectively, with less effort.

 

[Gamezone]

I wish Microsoft just gave up and released their games on Steam.

 

[Lonely1]

It runs well on my PC on Ultra 1080p 60fps.

I have a 6700k i7, 980ti, 24 gb ddr4 ram

Reportedly, the problem is that it runs bad at 1440p (my native resolution) or higher, even on low settings. :/

 

[JaggedSac]

No, they're the necessary requirements that expose the lie inherent in the "write once run anywhere" myth.

Perhaps your idea of "write once run anywhere" doesn't include adaptively handling different input methods and device types. Which, while still requiring designers and devs to specifically target desired platforms if that is necessary, is written in one project. Those tools already exist in the UWP.

 

[nynt9]

I wish Microsoft just gave up and released their games on Steam.

Well, not as UWP. They should release their game as a regular .exe, if they do that they can release it wherever they want.

 

[papo]

I haven't gotten my PC copy yet, but from playing on the X1 it doesn't look that bad. Like there is something off with that shot going around here.

The game has some visuals flaw, but that image looks as if it was taken with a flash camera. Not saying it is but it looks like it. The game looks gorgeous unless you are looking at it under a microscope.

 

[AndyD]

Yeesh, I'm not touching these UWP games with a 10 foot pole.

Yea, that seems to be the idea for now. Too bad, I was slightly interested in QB and TR.

 

[OnionPowder]

It runs well on my PC on Ultra 1080p 60fps.

I have a 6700k i7, 980ti, 24 gb ddr4 ram

"it runs well for me, here is my fucking monster rig playing at a low resolution"

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Artists or programmers? I think the art style great... that have nothing to do with the bad IQ.

It the own dev fault.

Art style isn't seperate from "graphics", nor are animations or anything else that dictates how the game has been visually built up.
Saying the "graphics" are unimpressive, because you don't like the resolution it's running at is just punch to the face to the artists.

And in that box you will find a (most likely Steamworks) key to enter into a digital storefront.
If you're lucky you have a disk containing some of the files needed to run the game to save you some download bandwidth.
If you're REALLY lucky, there might even be an honest to goodness paper manual describing the game and its features, rather than a simple colour printed one page with some cursory publisher info.

Ehh..ok? The box is still there.
Did you just instantly forget you said this?

so a publisher has zero infrastructure or logisitics costs to cover as part of the sticker price.

 

[AndyMoogle]

Yea, that seems to be the idea for now. Too bad, I was slightly interested in QB and TR.

If by TR you mean Rise of the Tomb Raider, then that is on Steam as well.

 

[LordRaptor]

Ehh..ok? The box is still there.
Did you just instantly forget you said this?

I'll just assume you live in Germany then which is pretty much the only place left where PC gaming has any actual retail presence.
A publishers costs to create a PC title are still at least 20% less than the equivalent on console, even in Germany where they still print disks and send them to stores.

 

[AndyD]

If by TR you mean Rise of the Tomb Raider, then that is on Steam as well.

Hooray. I'll add it to the backlog.

 

[ethomaz]

Art style isn't seperate from "graphics", nor are animations or anything else that dictates how the game has been visually built up.
Saying the "graphics" are unimpressive, because you don't like the resolution it's running at is just punch to the face to the artists.

It is not.

They is a clear diference between the art created for a game by artists and what it was implementes by the graphical designers/programmers.

The art is good but it was poor implemented in the game... the overall IQ is bad.

I won't give free pass for any dev with bad IQ implementation.

 

[Lonely1]

Hooray. I'll add it to the backlog.

Is an excellent port too! None with a sound mind should consider the Win Store version over it.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I'll just assume you live in Germany then which is pretty much the only place left where PC gaming has any actual retail presence.
A publishers costs to create a PC title are still at least 20% less than the equivalent on console, even in Germany where they still print disks and send them to stores.

You'd assume wrong since germany is not pretty much the only place left.

It is not.

They is a clear diference between the art created for a game by artists and what it was implementes by the graphical designers/programmers.

The art is good but it was poor implemented in the game... the overall IQ is bad.

I won't give free pass for any dev with bad IQ implementation.

I hope you don't actually believe this.

 

[MaLDo]

May. That's what they said at Build.

Maybe. That's what they mean.

 

[LordRaptor]

You'd assume wrong since germany is not pretty much the only place left.

I'm curious where you do live then because - outside the occasional WoW Warchest in a corner, and Steam Wallet cards near the till - buying PC games at retail in the UK is synonymous with being emailed a CD Key from a retailer, and this is generally how most of the Western worlds PC retail market looks.

 

[SunBroDave]

Art style isn't seperate from "graphics", nor are animations or anything else that dictates how the game has been visually built up.
Saying the "graphics" are unimpressive, because you don't like the resolution it's running at is just punch to the face to the artists.

I hope you don't actually believe this.

 

[Primethius]

You'd assume wrong since germany is not pretty much the only place left.



I hope you don't actually believe this.

IQ can absolutely harm a game's art. Halo 3 is an amazing example of this. Fantastic art and an otherwise beautiful looking game brought down completely by it's awful IQ.

 

[ethomaz]

I hope you don't actually believe this.

You are the one not understanding how it works.

You can have amazing art with bad IQ or bad art with amazing IQ.

One is not exclusive linked to other... it is different teams in a gaming developer studio.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

I'm really bummed that this didn't turn out well. I saw this coming from a mile away tho. Really hope they fix it cause I would love to play this game but I'm not buying it until I hear that it works well, which may be never.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I'm curious where you do live then because - outside the occasional WoW Warchest in a corner, and Steam Wallet cards near the till - buying PC games at retail in the UK is synonymous with being emailed a CD Key from a retailer, and this is generally how most of the Western worlds PC retail market looks.

Netherlands

IQ can absolutely harm a game's art. Halo 3 is an amazing example of this. Fantastic art and an otherwise beautiful looking game brought down completely by it's awful IQ.

Sure, I didn't say IQ isn't a factor, I said "graphics" isn't something seperate from art; the meshes don't suddenly become low tier because the overall rendering resolution is lower, it's still the same mesh some artist worked 6 weeks on.

 

[Trup1aya]

You're talking about assumptions vs facts. The facts are there for all to see at the moment, there are a ton of problems with UWP at the moment. Then we have the assumptions that "it will be fixed". Forgive me and other people for waiting until they are actually implemented (or at the very least have an implementation date) considering Microsofts shady past where they have promised on a whole host of things but never actually delivered. Saying "it will be fixed in the future" is useless for people who are experiencing issues with the platform at the moment. When will it be fixed? That is the important question that needs answering.

My point on Forza is just because it's free it doesn't make it ok for it to lack features that have been industry standards on the platform for decades. Again you can say "it will be fixed" or something similar but what will that look like? Support for Xbox supported wheels only? Will it support all wheels from all manufacturers? Will other common racing peripherals such as trackIR work? The answer is nobody knows. The one fact that we do have however is that wheels will not be supported at launch. That's pretty telling.

As for Remedy. They have released a game that is not fit for purpose on the platform and their FAQ is full of deflection. They are basically saying "that's UWP's fault", "that's Microsofts fault", "that's UWP's fault". They have also suggested that Microsoft will be removing some of those limitations in the future but yet they can't tell their paying customers when. That's not a good look.

Um, no one is disputing that these limitations exist now, or arguing that they are good for paying customers.

The questions are 1) are these limitations an inherent reality due to the nature of UWP, And 2) will they be fixed.

We know for a FACT, that there is no technical reason why UWP can't support fixes to these limitations. And we also have confirmation from the platform holder that many of these limitations will be removed in an upcoming OS update. So 1) no. 2) yes , unless MS is lying and wants to keep UWP exactly as is forever.... Which is terrible unlikely.


With regards to Forza, no one argues that it's OK for it to lack peripheral support. Someone INCORRECTLY asserted that MS/turn 10 is charging for a game that doesn't have peripheral support. I corrected that assertion. Like many others in this thread, you chose to mischaracterize this correction as being apologetic to the lack of peripheral support. such behavior has common theme in UWP threads.

The fact that there is no wheel support at the launch of Apex isn't "telling" of anything, other than the fact that UWP can't currently support peripherals. To suggest that UWP will only support 1st party peripherals, is again, an assumption that you are making without any sort of up-to-date information on the matter.

Again, there is no technical reason why UWP couldn't support 3rd party peripherals, beyond the incomplete nature of the platform. But when it comes to 3rd parties, MS is trending toward an open and inclusive platform with open distribution, free xamarin, native Bash support, Bot Framework open to all platforms, cross-network Xbox live play etc. all signs point to MS actively working to remove limitations all over the place, so to suggest that they want to block out 3rd party peripherals, simply because UWP isn't currently ready, just doesn't make any sense, if you want to look at "telling" circumstances.