How can you tell it is running at 60 fps? With all those extensive benchmarking apps available for UWA and dx12 applications...
Quantum Break PC is a mess (non-native render, badly optimized, overpriced, etc)
- Thread starter texhnolyze
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How can you tell it is running at 60 fps? With all those extensive benchmarking apps available for UWA and dx12 applications...
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
The heel we deserve
Dyson Industries
Banned
How much are you being paid?
edit: Never mind, it looks like that question has been answered.
It's not really a lie or a myth. I guess for people such as yourself they could write it as Write once, run anywhere*
*In order for your app to provide the best possible experience, minimal UI and/or input method changes may be required.
Because that's it. There's nothing technically stopping you from taking a UWA that today runs on the desktop, opening up Visual Studio, and deploying the app to the XB1. The app would run. It might not be a pleasant user experience since the UI likely wasn't designed with TVs in mind, but it would run and be functional with no changes to your code necessary. At that point if you want to improve the UX, you'd just go back to your code, edit in a few if statements to check what you're running on, and then adjust the UI accordingly.
nkarafo
Member
Xpadder
Unfortunately, we don't live in that perfect world.
As such, programs like RTSS are necessary. I use it for many games that otherwise i wouldn't be bothered with due to technical problems.
There's another explanation here.
They can be still astroturfers. Just not hired by Microsoft, but instead by Valve or Epic or whatever other company is feeling threatened by WinStore.
I mean, certain posters defending UWP in all the related threads are doing it so inefficiently, so inconvincible it almost feels like all their hard work is having the opposite effect then they seem to work for.
Said effect not being helpful to Microsoft, like, at all.
I mean, that poster who asked how lack of mods is a big deal with UWP while sporting KOTOR 2 avatar? Seriously, are we to believe that was a coincidence?
LordRaptor
Member
It is a myth; it was a myth when people were writing desktop .JAR files and expecting them to run 'as is' on J2ME feature phones, and its a myth today if you expect a UWA to run correctly on a desktop, an Xbox One and a phone.
It is a necessity to write code specifically to cater to a target device, not just in terms of I/O but also in terms of device capability, particularly where there is the kind of power differential you have between a desktop PC and a phone.
Is it possible to write core code functionality that can be transplanted anywhere? Of course it is.
But games companies aren't doing that in UWA. They're using middleware engines. UWA is not bringing anything to the table in that regard, and the per-platform changes they need to implement are the same as they always have been when making a multiplatform game.
CrispyBoar
Banned
No one is saying that would not be the case in certain scenarios. Of course a new pc game isnt going to run on a phone(although at some point that game would be acceptably playable on a phone after performance increases). Even UWP development has no qualms with that scenario. Target one platform, done. But there are certainly scenarios, lots and lots of them, where a single project targeted at multiple platforms works quite well and would be an ideal way to develop.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think this game is proof that IQ isn't everything when it comes to graphics. Motion blur, texture quality and loads of other visual effects are much more important. Am I slightly disappointed it isn't as clean as The Order? Sure. But I never thought I would see another game this gen that rivaled the Order and barely a year later, we have a game that comes very close and even exceeds it in some respects. For example, the bullet time effects.
Again, it's bizarre to me that people think there is nothing impressive in this game in terms of graphics. Utterly bizarre. The game has fantastic looking environments, great looking character models, and oozes of atmosphere just like The Order.
The order is easily the greatest looking game ever made, so i can understand Quantum Break losing some 1v1 comparisons but to say it doesnt even look impressive is mind blowing to me.
LordRaptor
Member
I don't entirely disagree, but the scope of such a project has to be pretty limited, and this is why I do not believe UWAs were ever intended for 'full fat' application development, and it is vaguely ridiculous that the Xbox division are trying to use them for that purpose.
e: This is why I am discussing things like Phone apps that also work on PC - because that is the scenario where such a model works. Phone apps are limited in scope because they're 'single utility' programs that allow you to browse a cached netflix catalogue and open a stream (or whatever).
Interestingly some people speculated this might happen a year or more ago when UWP was detailed. Make it a half-hearted effort and point to the Xone as a "solid" alternative.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yes... that sounds like a truly foolproof and completely budget minded business strategy.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Yeah. I mean this is the biggest incentive they've ever had to bring games to pc (biggest since they made the first xbox) and STILL they don't give half a shit about the quality. It really shows that they genuinly could not care less about pc gaming (or the people who buy their games and software)
I guess that what happens when a business starts to move towards a service and walled garden platform holder, the users stop being the customer. All their effort will go into wooing publishers and developers into their walled garden.
UWA is genuinly worse than that to me
Worst case with gfwl is you had to pay for multiplayer for ms games andt he handful of games that would be exclusive moneyhatted to gfwl
Worst case with UWA (and ms's goal here) is UWA replaces win32 completely over the years and modding as we know it and all the innovation it brings with it is dead
I've never once been worried about owning a pc in the past 20 years, but now I am
dgrdsv
Member
I don't think this is the main issue here. Yeah, UWP wasn't really built for AAA games but the issue is wider than that - UWP wasn't really built for anything really but that strange dream MS had where every developer will suddenly forget about iOS, Android, Linux, OSX and will just use UWP to... what exactly? Code their programs once to put them on Win10 PCs and MS Surface (which is just a peculiar Win10 laptop really)? MS smartphones are dead so that's it? But how exactly is that helping them compared to just using the good old Win32 for the same purpose while still porting their software to Linux, OSX, Android, etc?
The idea of UWP is based on something which doesn't exist. MS isn't the leader in modern OS platforms anymore. UWP doesn't help the market in any considerable way to be even remotely relevant in the grand scheme of things at the moment. It's just MS living in a usual MS world where they're still controlling everything and can force everyone down a chosen path.
Yeah, that's exactly what has happened with QB and you can enjoy the resulting fireworks now.
It won't work. The idea is flawed in its basis. The market doesn't want "UWP", it wants every experience to be specifically tailored to the platform it is running on. Apple understand this, MS doesn't. That's the difference between them.
SneakyStephan
Banned
You see the registry talking point CONSTANTLY on reddit in UWP threads.
Despite it being so incredibly random to suggest that this is something a gamer or pc user would care about, and a non issue.
It's clear that these people are all reading off the same message steerer list.
Lots of growing pains regarding UWP to be expected, I'm optimistic.
This situation seems to be on whoever ported it, on top of a rushed dev schedule. Not UWP.
I'm sure it won't take Arkham Knight-levels of rework to fix to have the game running at an awesome state. This game deserves that.
This situation seems to be on whoever ported it, on top of a rushed dev schedule. Not UWP.
I'm sure it won't take Arkham Knight-levels of rework to fix to have the game running at an awesome state. This game deserves that.
cleveridea
Member
It really is a shame that the PC version is a disaster for so many people. As a fan of shows like Fringe where crazy & weird stuff happens I am enjoying the plot, the time effects look incredible and I am liking the TV stuff more than expected (even though its very corny and some bad acting/script)
Also as someone who loves super power games like Infamous Second Son, I think the gameplay is superb. Its bizarre to me how people can rate this 4/10.
Also as someone who loves super power games like Infamous Second Son, I think the gameplay is superb. Its bizarre to me how people can rate this 4/10.
Yeah i know. I have fraps but that doesn't work. I can guess because the cutscenes run at 30 and when it switches to gameplay its quite jarring. Definite boost in fidelity. Gotta love UWP. I can tell because it runs very smoothly with the frame rate unlocked. What's really weird is when I lock it to 30 fps it runs horribly. Stutters like crazy, isn't that supposed to make the game run better?
IDK, all my settings are on ultra or high but I have a very powerful PC and I'm only running at 1080p! I can't go any higher because there's no fucking higher resolution in the settings!
With all of these issues they should definitely have a REFUND option for people. But it's MS.
That's allegedly what happened with QB, and it shouldn't happen with games like QB. But there are countless of applications and a application concepts where this approach is perfectly viable.
There's nothing about UWP that requires developers to ignore the differences between the platforms they are targeting. Some applications, like graphics intensive games, require more work to target specific platforms than others. This fact doesn't mean that the concept as a whole is undesireable.
If you were making a Space Marine 12 stat tracking app, you'd like the idea of coding it once, and easily porting it between Multiple hardware configurations.
The market wouldn't particularly care whether you used UWP or not. But the developer would benefit.
Now, If you are making Space Marine 12, you could still use UWP (maybe because you want to use XBL for networking, or communicate directly to a UWap stat tracking app) but should also give the Xbox one version and the PC version more special attention. The idea that the code once concept is inherently flawed is just wrong. It just isn't suitable for every single possible application. Outside of the relm of heavy video games, and design software the vast majority of application are prime for this type of approach.
SEGAvangelist
Member
MS support is good about giving refunds. I'd call them for one if you want a refund.
Demanufacture
Banned
UWP is the worst thing to happen to PC gaming since GFWL
GJ MS.
GJ MS.
UWP has a lot of it's administration/operation moved into the OS space. The issue with registry is partly with malware and the trouble installing/uninstalling stuff fully which if MS signs off on stuff like Lenovo's trash utilities or signs off on McAfee; the second portion still exists and malware still exists in win32. It doesn't fix this.
UWP core apps are also permanent. You can dispose of them. What if Lenovo asks MS to sign their apps as core and you get their garbage stuff permanently.
As you said about signing, only as good as the curator. MS is not intrinsically any better than Apple on this though both are better then Google. Valve has been as good as MS or Apple. It UWP and the w10 store doesn't fix this.
dgrdsv
Member
Ok so what is there in UWP over Win32 if you still need to code differently for the target platforms you're launching on? Security? Lol, ok. Anything else?
Agreed. Microsoft had decades to perfect Win32 but now it's just legacy software. I'm sure they'll get UWP right in the next few years!
It's worse. And they said it couldn't be done!
AndyMoogle
Member
We NEED that security though. Remember all the times malware was found in mods? Yeah, now all that is gone. So awesome. We are also getting amazing ports of games that couldn't possibly be ported without UWP. The benefits keep on coming!
Nah, they're quite aware of their current position. There's a reason why they've put all of their stuff on iOS and Android and started to embrace Linux a lot more. That's also the reason they purchased Xamarin, taking something that used to cost thousands of dollars for a license, and made it free for everyone as part of Visual Studio. They want developers to create apps for any platform, using only Windows. Their plan at the moment is to get developers to write UWP apps for all Windows 10 devices and then use Xamarin to take that UWP code and make it work across iOS and Android. They know they can't get developers to only developer for UWP.
CrispyBoar
Banned
These. As long as Microsoft keeps up with this attitude, they'll never surpass Steam.
Sony has most of the marketshare worldwide & are increasing the gap in sales & owners a lot further while the sales of Xbox One are peaking (or have already reached it's peak) after now two & a half years.
wapplew
Member
Some Xbox live exclusive perk? Xbox achievement and stuff? MS could always make more things like that tie to UWP.
My issue here is it may well be running at 60fps but the average user has no idea to what degree or how close. Going just by feel isn't quite useful enough because some people are more sensitive than others in regards to frame rate or frame pacing.
I mean we aren't even sure if the game is using a double or triple buffer, because those frame pacing issues would be less likely to occur in a triple buffered setup.
I did miss the lighting, QB is current gen lighting with some last gen shadows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woVFPe3C1k&nohtml5=False
Watched the HD video and seen the screen HD shots. Aside from faces, lighting and the number of effects it's not very impressive otherwise. All the things I mentioned are last gen quality.
The order is tech demo. A extremely mediocre game hanging on graphics. In all the areas QB is strong graphically so is the order with better material physics and less issues on the fringes like the oddities with reflections and shadows. Although wet background things look better in QB. The models look better in the order. Something about their arms are extremely off in QB. The Order model animation is much better but the facial mocap seems better in QB. Both has last gen level design and gameplay.
Undoubtedly QB is a better game than the Order but that's a low low low bar.
Dreathlock
Member
Microsoft really should leave pc gamers alone. We dont need your "dedication to pc gaming"...
CrimsonEclipse
Member
After reading that FAQ remedy did, I'm not even gonna blame MS alone at this point (I am going to blame all parties involved) . The FAQ just felt like a w/e response from them. The response to the quit option in the menu is terrible.
I tend to avoid these types of conversations but this is just wow. Hopefully, something is done with these games running on UWP (not blaming the platform for everything) but it's clear work needs to be done sooner than later.
I tend to avoid these types of conversations but this is just wow. Hopefully, something is done with these games running on UWP (not blaming the platform for everything) but it's clear work needs to be done sooner than later.
Man what a shitshow this turned out to be.
I'm kinda curios what's going on at Remedy watching all this unfold.
Like, they're a seasoned PC developer, they couldn't have possibly thought a port like this would be acceptable in a post Arkham Knight world.
Hard to imagine there isn't more to this but we'll never know I guess. All there's left to do is hope they'll have the opportunity to fix this eventually.
I'm kinda curios what's going on at Remedy watching all this unfold.
Like, they're a seasoned PC developer, they couldn't have possibly thought a port like this would be acceptable in a post Arkham Knight world.
Hard to imagine there isn't more to this but we'll never know I guess. All there's left to do is hope they'll have the opportunity to fix this eventually.
For a large number of applications, there's no difference beyond security, portability, and (ms hopes) visibility. I'm not sure why that's funny, these ARE desirable characteristics for a development platform. For many developers, who don't need the system access that win32 provides, don't need or want their users to modify their programs, or who are also developing for non-windows platforms, it's simply a new standard that could help them reach a large audience.
Outside of a few specific types of applications, now that distribution is known to be open, there really aren't many reason NOT to use UWP for Windows applications, especially if you'd like to also move that application to other devices.
The imagined situation (which I think is the most likely) is that they were told relatively late in the game that a PC version was going to need to happen, in order to adhere to Microsoft's newfound change of strategy and "commitment to PC gamers." So they probably didn't have nearly enough time to undo some of the (admittedly very smart) solutions in place for XB1, such as resolution reprojection, and replace them with proper PC features. After all, it was announced for PC very close to release.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
Because it's selling so poorly MS stopped giving numbers a long time ago.
SunBroDave
Member
wapplew
Member
Maybe MS want to show what UWA can do like "hey remedy, let's try port QB within a month to prove writing in UWA is very efficient."
Yup, this is how I feel. How about letting PC games on the store follow the traditional x64 exe model while letting the other apps that no one cares about deal with that UWA bullshit.
therealbigrich
Member
I think they stopped giving numbers to try not looking bad vs PS numbers. Basically if it was just Xbox one and wii u we would be saying the same thing about Xbox that we do Xbox. Just perception at this point.
To be honest I somehow wanna believe that MS couldn't possibly be that stupid to risk a completely sub par PC version just to get it "out there". It's not like they're desperate for that additional PC version cash flow and most people were already pleasantly surprised that the game was coming to PC at all.