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Quite late to the party, but I'm already annoyed by the guests: Skies of Arcadia

Vlad

Member
Now, I'm not a huge fan of RPGs. The only RPGs I've played have been Final Fantasy 1, 4, 6, Secret of Mana, Crono Trigger, and Paper Mario. For some reason, after going through the SNES RPGs I listed, I more or less lost interest in the genre in general. I got Skies Of Arcadia: Legends as a gift a month or two back, and finally started in on it about a week ago.

One thing that I always found a little irritating about the Final Fantasy games I played was the whole "random encounters with invisible enemies" thing. I could understand that it was possiby due to a limitation of the systems of the time, in that they couldn't display every single creature roaming around the plains. Crono trigger may have had unavoidable fights, but at least you could see them coming and/or the enemies jumped out of a realistic hiding place. The same goes for Paper Mario, as well. It was a nice change of pace to actually be able to see the enemies and approach them on my terms.

Unfortunately, it seems that Sega didn't feel like making the enemies visible when you're walking/flying around, so it's back to the sudden random encounters... but I got used to it after a little bit...

It's also a little disappointing to find that the battle system is just as non-interactive as the ones from the old RPGs I've played. After playing Paper Mario (and Mario and Luigi:Superstar Saga... I forgot about that one), I guess I just assumed that being able to do something to have some real-time input on the outcome. Instead, it's just the same old "take a swing at them, they take a swing at me, repeat" stuff. Again, I got used to it after I got a little more into the story and game world.

Of course, at this point, my party was getting stronger than the enemies in the beginning area, and in the first of a good few major annoyances to come up, I get kicked into the random battle, wait for everything to load, set all my guys to attack, then all the enemies run before I can get any hits in. It really makes exploring an area not a whole lot of fun when you know you're going to be interrupted constantly by battles you won't even get any experience from.

A little later, in the game, I come across an area where the enemies are slaughtering my party members with a single spell. At first, I thought I had accidentally strayed into an area I wasn't supposed to be in yet, and I was just being outclassed. However, after wandering around a little bit, I realized that yes, that's where I was supposed to be. After thumbing through the instruction book a little bit, I come to the section on spells, and find that the spell that's killing my party members isn't doing it because I'm not at a high enough level, it's just doing it because that's what the spell does. Yes, there's a spell that, if it works, kills the target in a single hit. And it's being cast by what looks like an insect the size of a small cat. The next line down shows that a spell exists that casts this insta-death spell on an entire group of people! So now not only do I have to worry about random battles, but I've got to worry about killer wizard bugs.

I would have looked forward to having my party members learning that spell eventually, though, except it also looks like Skies of Arcadia follows another old RPG convention in that status-altering spells hardly ever work on enemies. Every time I try the "poison" an enemy spell, it does damage, but never poisons them. Whenever I tried the spell that would stop an enemy from casting spells, it would always miss. However, whenver the enemies do a status-altering spells, my party comes down with every plague and malady in the book.

Again, I trudged onward even after it looked like the plot was developing into the old "Collect the X number of ancient powerful relics" thing. After getting the first stone and sitting through the cutscene with the (pretty obvious) betrayal sequence, it's time for yet another ship battle. While I like the idea of the ship battles in theory, the insanely long wait time for them to do ANYTHING just makes the whole thing just drag out. I really don't need to see the two ships fly around in front of the camera for such an extended period before every single action.

So anyway, I'm in a ship battle with the giant 4-headed red thing, and it appears to be the usual "stay alive against the unbeatable enemy" thing. It takes some time to finally get through the whole sequence, then I have to go fight an actual ship which I can beat. The battle takes a while, but I finally win. After sitting through another cutscene, I head back to town. After I'm there, I walk past the save spot at the port, as I'm headed to the Inn. On the way there, I see a new NPC just standing there on the docks. After I walk up to him and hit the talk button, the game informs me that he's one of the pirates from the bounty list, do I want to talk to him? Now, since the game said "talk" to him, I figured that there wouldn't be any harm in it. However, the conversation basically starts out with my character challenging this guy to a fight to the death, which starts immediately. I can't run for some reason, so I'm stuck fighting. However, the guy pretty much beats my ass three tries in a row (it's the fight against the big buff guy and the little kid who keeps casting spells). Realizing that I'm pretty much outclassed here, I select "I Quit" from the prompt, figuring that it'd just drop me back on the docks. Instead, I'm treated to a "Game Over" screen.

It's at this point I realize that I hadn't saved after the whole sequence after I got the first stone. So in order to get back where I was, I have to sit through a too-long unskippable cutscene, as well as two excessively long ship battles. Ugh.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
It's a strange game to discuss...

I absolutely loved the time I spent with the game, but in retrospect, it's actually quite flawed. If anything, the fact that I enjoyed it so much DESPITE the flaws speaks volumes about the content...
 

Vlad

Member
dark10x said:
It's a strange game to discuss...

I absolutely loved the time I spent with the game, but in retrospect, it's actually quite flawed. If anything, the fact that I enjoyed it so much DESPITE the flaws speaks volumes about the content...

Well, I just started the game a few weeks ago, and like I said, I'd taken quite an extended break from the genre after a bit of an overload during the SNES days.

I could get over the little flaws at first, but it seems that the strange design decisions are conspiring to make me really hate the game. I mean, if you're going to have cutscenes that long, make them skippable, or at least make it explicitly clear that the NPC you're about to enter into a conversation with with completely kick your ass in about three turns of battle.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Not being a fan of the RPG genre wouldn't really help you enjoying this game.. it is true that a lot of the things within the game are basically from an era long-forgotten, but remember that it's only recently that random encounters are being killed off in favour of the enemies on screen - some would argue this was taking place before this generation.. considering the two biggest RPG franchises hadn't adopted this, I doubt it.

Some of the enemies are challenging, and you should know yourself who is on the bounty list or not.. otherwise you're being too ignorant to the whole Bounty Wanted List at the Pirate's Info house that litters every town. If enemies are too hard, do the old level up routine. However I will add that the bounty's can be your major source of income hence why they are difficult. As for wanting interactive battles, you're probably best looking for an action-battle RPG i.e. Tales of Symphonia.

Yet it is an old game and that has to be taken into respect. People complain that OverWorks did nothing much to add to the game, as for myself who had never owned a DC, it was a dream come true to play a game I was willing to buy a DC for. I don't know how you would have handled the random battle encounter rate with the original version :p
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
There was ONE benefit to the DC version, though...

2-3 seconds prior to any random encounter, you could hear GD-ROM drive access the disc drive (it was quite audible). As soon as you heard the sound, you KNEW a battle was about to begin. Therefore, you could simply jump into the menu and prepare accordingly (if for some reason you were not ready).
 
Skies was great in every aspect that does not pertain to RPG gameplay. Every traditional RPG element was weak, boring, repetitive, slow, or all of the above. The world, story, characters, and graphics would have made for an amazing action RPG, instead of a mediocre, but memorable traditonal RPG.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I find SoA's combat passable, but it is definately the weak link in what is otherwise a brilliant RPG. The style, story (despite the 'collect the relics' structure), characters, visuals and especially music are all wonderful. Do keep playing - the game has many great things in store.
 

Oxymoron

Member
Vlad said:
Yes, there's a spell that, if it works, kills the target in a single hit. And it's being cast by what looks like an insect the size of a small cat. The next line down shows that a spell exists that casts this insta-death spell on an entire group of people! So now not only do I have to worry about random battles, but I've got to worry about killer wizard bugs.

Don't worry. Once you get Aika's Delta Shield, you'll be fine.
 

nitewulf

Member
remember to cast aika's shield spell every turn, that will negate that death spell.
and save, save, save. rules for any jrpg. its not just an annoyance found in SOA, always save after a major event/boss.
 

Subitai

Member
If you get a black map and equip to someone, enemies can't escape.

Don't mess with the guys on the bounty until you unlock Aika's Delta Sheild.
 

Vlad

Member
Boy, lots of recommendations for Delta Shield... I unlocked that in that desert temple, but haven't bothered using it yet. Does it work for just spells, or any special attack? Either way, the insta-kill spell still seems a little ridiculous

and save, save, save. rules for any jrpg. its not just an annoyance found in SOA, always save after a major event/boss.

Yeah, I know I should have saved, but I didn't think that a random conversation in a town (usually a safe haven in RPGs) would lead me to an inescapable battle against a foe who severly outmatched me. Even if I had used Delta Shield, the guy still woulda whipped my ass. The two enemies kept healing each other and completely negating any damage I did up until that point. I guess I figured that a prompt that asked me if I wanted to talk to a guy wouldn't lead me to a fight. I figured that there'd be one of those "what will you say to him" things that would determine whether there'd be a fight or not.

The whole thing wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't have to do both those ship battles and sit through all the cutscenes again. Is there some way to speed up the ship battles that I'm not aware of? As is, they all just boil down to chipping away at the other ship, using Evasive Action on the yellow and red squares, and finishing them off with the harpoon cannon when the right icon rolls around. Also, is there any way to tell during the battle which of the choices to take when it offers them? Like in the fight after the red Giga, it gives me the choice of trying to get around behind the other ship, or doing a hard turn to try and surprise her. Is there some way that I was supposed to know which one is the correct choice? Unlike the conversation choices, where the right choice is pretty evident, the choices in ship combat seem a bit arbitrary.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
dark10x said:
There was ONE benefit to the DC version, though...

2-3 seconds prior to any random encounter, you could hear GD-ROM drive access the disc drive (it was quite audible). As soon as you heard the sound, you KNEW a battle was about to begin. Therefore, you could simply jump into the menu and prepare accordingly (if for some reason you were not ready).
You could sometimes even cancel out the battle altogether if you had your timing right.
 

Vlad

Member
Well, I've kept with it, and made sure to save pretty regularly now, especially after a big ship battle.

I've gotten the ship and the island (nothing's built there yet, though). I was completely expecting that when I finally got my ship, it'd be some dinky little thing and I'd have to work my way up to something respectable. Imagine my delight when the best ship the Valuan navy has to offer is dumped into my lap.. :) I've taken quite a liking to picking on the random Black Pirate ships now and taking them down in a single volley of shots.

I've just gotten through the Dark Rift, and at this point I'm starting to find the game too easy. I haven't gone out of my way to level up, I've just fought every battle that I've been in, and explored every area I've passed through. I haven't made it a point to level up, yet every random encounter now is way too easy. All I've got to do is start off with Aika's Lambda Burst, which is pretty much guaranteed to kill all the smaller enemies outright, and then just have everybody else attack. If there's a lot of enemies, I may have to have everbody take a second turn to finish cleaning up. Money is so not an issue in this game, so I'm absolutely loaded with healing items, so any damage that I do take isn't an issue.

I find that I'm just slogging through the game now just to see where it goes. Since none of the random battles have been at all challenging in a while, I'm starting to get more annoyed by all the random encounters.

About what % of the main game have I done, anyway?
 

explodet

Member
Vlad said:
I find that I'm just slogging through the game now just to see where it goes. Since none of the random battles have been at all challenging in a while, I'm starting to get more annoyed by all the random encounters.
At this point in the game, I believe you can find an item that reduces random encounters when you equip it. Track that down and it should make things easier on the patience. I forget where it is exactly, but if you really want it now, just look it up in a FAQ.

EDIT: reduces encounters, not eliminates
 
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