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[Sheroking]

The legal and personal consequences of a false accusation and the physical and emotional consequences of being assaulted can't occupy the same place in your mind. They are not alike.

From the cold, detached view of the law (and the legal system is right to view it this way), better a rapist walk free than an innocent man be jailed.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

so being accused of rape is not a serious matter?

Did I say that? You're the one who said they are equally bad. Which is insane.

If i was accused of any crime especially rape it would have a toll on me, my family, maybe even my livelihood.

Or you could end up being POTUS.

But sure, both are just as bad!

I'm sure the dude that loses his job, gets kicked out of school, or loses custody of his kids because of a false rape accusation is saying "well, at least I didn't get raped!"

Both of these things are very, very bad and can unfairly ruin your life.

Or you could end up being POTUS.

 

[Earthbound64]

EDIT: n/m, probably discussed at length already.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

I feel like people are unfairly dismissing the falsely accused. It's a pretty small consolation if you've done nothing wrong, and are possibly facing jail time, hiring a lawyer, etc over a false accusation.

The justice system being what it is, im sure of these are pleading down, doing time, and getting put on a sex offenders registry to avoid doing even more time?

This could be absolutely devastating emotionally and financially.

What do you think people of color have dealt with for hundreds of years? But now that it's hitting our rich white boys something should be done about it right?

No one here says people deserve to be falsely accused and it's bad yes, but to frame it in comparison to rape isn't gonna get you anywhere it's not comparable.

 

[Izuna]

Thank goodness for that video I guess.

But drunk sex sucks so... just don't do it regardless

 

[Charles Brandon]

The person was talking in legal sense there (it not being rape as a legal term in at least his country if it's not penetration), in response to a point about legality.

That said, it still comes off as incredibly nasty. Whenever you talk about legal terms in a matter as grave as this, you really should be as careful and respective as possible. We have men here who have been raped for fucks sake, so saying a woman can't rape a man in the tone that he did really comes off sounding horrible.

.

Incredibly nasty? Please. I admit that that remark had insufficient clarity but it was post about the legal definition of rape (which is actually very similar in both the US and the UK), which is, after all, the crux of the matter. I should have said "It is impossible for a woman to rape a man without penetration" but the point was perfectly clear in the context of the rest of the sentence. There was no tone.

 

[Keri]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

Say that it was consensual. This works for 94% of real rapists, so the odds are high that it will work for someone falsely accused.

 

[Tawpgun]

Something probably did go down, but nobody will know so...

I would rather let possible guilty people walk free than convict someone who may be innocent. Toss-up stuff like this it is best to just not charge them.
.

THIIIISSSS

It's why these things going to Jury can be problematic.

If the actual rapist gets charged and convicted. Hooray, the system worked.

And then there's

1. The defense did a good enough job slut shaming the victim that the jury bought she wasn't raped and does not convict. Putting her through trauma again with no justice. Now she will be publically shamed.

2. The prosecution convinces the jury to convict an innocent man on flimsy evidence. and convicting someone innocent is the worst thing our justice system can do.

 

[Reeks]

Say that it was consensual. This works for 94% of real rapists, so the odds are high that it will work for someone falsely accused.

.

Conversely, what can a victim of rape do to seek justice? Spoiler: not much.

 

[KingV]

Did I say that? You're the one who said they are equally bad. Which is insane.

Or you could end up being POTUS.

But sure, both are just as bad!


Or you could end up being POTUS.

You could be raped and be POTUS too. What's your point? That being a victim does not preclude you from being POTUS? Or are you saying that Trump was falsely accused of rape? I agree with the former but not necessarily the latter.

 

[Llyranor]

Say that it was consensual. This works for 94% of real rapists, so the odds are high that it will work for someone falsely accused.

Yup. You're more likely to get away with real rape than get convicted by a false rape accusation, so no worries.

 

[neojubei]

Did I say that? You're the one who said they are equally bad. Which is insane.

.

I am so done with this topic. As a gay man I do have a fear of being raped, i do believe rape and the accusation of rape are serious matters, this does not mean i believe they are on the same level. I know you think you are fighting some righteous fight, but telling people here that being accused of a crime is not a serious matter is dumb. If i a friend calls me up and tells me he was arrested for rape and is crying on the phone telling me he is innocent, i'm going to take that seriously as i did with my friend who told me he was raped by a class mate i knew. To this day i still feel like beating the crap out of the guy who raped my friend, but all i could do was be there for my friend.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I think I'm just gonna cut off my penis at this point. I just hate this double standard of women not being accountable if they're drunk. Woman has sex while intoxicated, she was raped. Man has sex while intoxicated, he's the rapist. It's like men are supposed to be accountable while drunk, but women aren't.

Wouldn't it just be easier NOT to have sex with drunk women?

 

[KingV]

What do you think people of color have dealt with for hundreds of years? But now that it's hitting our rich white boys something should be done about it right?

No one here says people deserve to be falsely accused and it's bad yes, but to frame it in comparison to rape isn't gonna get you anywhere it's not comparable.

Based on what standard? It's a dumb comparison. How many false accusations is equal to one rape?

What do white males have to do with this? Does Arman Karim Premjee sound like a white name to you? Is that like an alternate spelling of Aiden that I'm not aware of? Or you could just google him and see that he is a PoC.

 

[Reeks]

I am so done with this topic. As a gay man I do have a fear of being raped, i do believe rape and the accusation of rape are serious matters, this does not mean i believe they are on the same level. I know you think you are fighting some righteous fight, but telling people here that being accused of a crime is not a serious matter is dumb.

Some of the responses on both sides of the issue in this thread are insane. Rape is a serious thing and being falsely accused is just as serious.

That statement does seem to equate the two. No one is saying false accusations aren't serious.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Wouldn't it just be easier NOT to have sex with drunk women?

What if that is the only way?

Checkmate.

 

[neojubei]

That statement does seem to equate the two. No one is saying false accusations aren't serious.

Wow at this topic. Because i take both situations seriously you think i believe they are both equal? to make it clear to everyone i do not believe they are equal.

 

[perfectchaos007]

What if that is the only way?

Checkmate.

Dim lighting helps

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You could be raped and be POTUS too. What's your point?

You said that being accused of rape will ruin your life and career. Clearly, that's not necessarily true at all, since it's not even a barrier to become POTUS.

That being a victim does not preclude you from being POTUS? Or are you saying that Trump was falsely accused of rape? I agree with the former but not necessarily the latter.

I'm not sure if the accusations were true or false because it never went to trial and the plaintiff dropped the charges eventually, but yes, Trump was accused of rape. Raping a minor, even.

(He also confessed on tape to sexually assaulting women and suffered zero consequences for it. That should tell you something.)

I am so done with this topic. As a gay man I do have a fear of being raped, i do believe rape and the accusation of rape are serious matters, this does not mean i believe they are on the same level.

B-b-b... But... you said...

Rape is a serious thing and being falsely accused is just as serious.

And then...

but telling people here that being accused of a crime is not a serious matter is dumb

B-b-b... But... I never said that... literally no one said that....

What the fuck? Do you know what words mean or can you just not read or... I mean, what

 

[Eyemus Lutt]

Wouldn't it just be easier NOT to have sex with drunk women?

Well the majority of the time both the people are drunk, so you could say that about both of them, but apparently it seems like men should make the good decision not to have sex while women aren't which is a bullshit excuse because if a man or woman were caught drunk driving they can't use the excuse I didn't give myself permission.

 

[neojubei]

You said that being accused of rape will ruin your life and career. Clearly, that's not necessarily true at all, since it's not even a barrier to become POTUS.


I'm not sure if the accusations were true or false because it never went to trial and the plaintiff dropped the charges eventually, but yes, Trump was accused of rape. Raping a minor, even.

(He also confessed on tape to sexually assaulting women and suffered zero consequences for it. That should tell you something.)


B-b-b... But... you said...


And then...


B-b-b... But... I never said that... literally no one said that....

What the fuck? Do you know what words mean or can you just not read or... I mean, what

So ok this is for you. I do not believe rape and the accusation of rape are on the same level. Is this ok with you? I take both matters seriously, if i did not make myself clear then do i make it clear now? Im not here saying what is rape or what isnt rape, because i know its a very real thing as a gay man who has been raised with all women around my life. Which is why i will always support women only venues and such. men are terrifying animals. I'm not sure what more you want or you just want to fight me on this for no reason.

 

[TyrantII]

Sure it can even without any issues of intoxication. Someone could be grabby at a restaurant, in a car, even at the entrance to a dorm room, and still have second thoughts about actually doing the deed at the last minute.

And some have second thoughts after the deed is done, which might be the case here.

Ultimately it's a he said, she said case and none of the evidence seems to suggest predatory action or an inability to consent. Although the article leaves out what the roommate witnessed, which might change things.

Being grabby drunks isn't enough to revoke any consent that might have been given, and for better or worse our legal system requires the prosecution to prove with evidence.

This shit is so fucking messy.

 

[KingV]

You said that being accused of rape will ruin your life and career. Clearly, that's not necessarily true at all, since it's not even a barrier to become POTUS.

This is just a purposely obtuse comment. Obviously being falsely accused of rape could ruin your life. Obviously it will not always ruin your life. Obviously being raped might ruin your life. Obviously it will not always ruin your life.

Edit: and you're not even reading my comment literally. I literally said "can" ruin your life. "CAN", used as a synonym for "might", or "may".

 

[Lonewulfeus]

This is just a purposely obtuse comment. Obviously being falsely accused of rape could ruin your life. Obviously it will not always ruin your life. Obviously being raped might ruin your life. Obviously it will not always ruin your life.

Nah that's not obtuse it's the truth.

 

[KingV]

Nah that's not obtuse it's the truth.

Maybe you should response to what I actually said. I did not say that it was a certainty.

Of course when you are arguing over semantics we have basically just reached rock bottom of the conversation.

Do you disagree that it could ruin your life to be falsely accused of rape? If not, than we have nothing to actually argue about.

 

[TyrantII]

Wouldn't it just be easier NOT to have sex with drunk women?

It's good advice.

Being drunk isn't a legal argument. You can't get out of a contract because you were drunk either, unless you can prove you were threatened or you were taken advantage of knowingly.

Consenting while drunk follows similar legal lines. You can't consent while drunk, and decide you didn't want that the day after.

You would have to have been taken advantage of or incapacitated, and even then be able to prove it in the end.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I'd be getting a lawyer to sue her.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I'd be getting a lawyer to sue her.

For what?

 

[Syder]

Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky. You can be drunk as hell in a bar and a woman approaches you, takes you home and fucks you and, if she's drunk as hell too (even if it didn't seem like it), you raped that woman. Yes you did. Doesn't have to be a stranger. You sit at home with your wife and you both get drunk off your arses and you go upstairs and have sex, that's rape potentially. She's too drunk to consent, therefore she didn't consent, therefore you raped her. Doesn't work the other way round unless she put something up your arse.

Now all that is pretty fucked up but really it doesn't happen like that very often and the concept of being too drunk to give consent is an important one that protects vulnerable women from predatory men. But you can't have the protection without having the fucked up situations in my first paragraph and so occasionally, stuff like this case happens.

You should probably edit this post and highlight that you meant by lawful definition (in the UK).

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Something probably did go down, but nobody will know so...

I would rather let possible guilty people walk free than convict someone who may be innocent. Toss-up stuff like this it is best to just not charge them.

Also I would rather die than be raped, and I'm a dude.

We were able to tell before you typed that.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

For what?

Accusing me of being a rapist.

I'd try to get a payday. I wouldn't blame him either.

 

[Charles Brandon]

You should probably edit this post and highlight that you meant by lawful definition (in the UK).

I've made my position perfectly clear.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

We were able to tell before you typed that.

Yeah but did anybody say it as great as me?

The answer is no.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Accusing me of being a rapist.

I'd try to get a payday. I wouldn't blame him either.

Interesting perspective...

 

[Reeks]

Wow at this topic. Because i take both situations seriously you think i believe they are both equal? to make it clear to everyone i do not believe they are equal.

I'm pointing out that that's why it seem like you equate the two. Maybe you misspoke. And of course you take both situations seriously- we all do.

 

[NullPointer]

Based on what?

This actually isn't proof that she's lying.

It just means there isn't enough evidence to continue with a trial.

He's got more to go on than she did.

 

[Psychoward]

Thank goodness for that video I guess.

But drunk sex sucks so... just don't do it regardless

drunk sex is great with your s/o though

 

[Jzero]

No. Consent can be revoked before and during. Come on, it's not that hard.

No joke but I've heard women (online) say they can revoke consent after the deed has already been done.

 

[Number_6]

Off topic, that's my alma mater as well.

Mine too.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

No joke but I've heard women (online) say they can revoke consent after the deed has already been done.

Well, then those women are dumb, cause they objectively cannot.

 

[bionic77]

Ugh.

So many people in this thread seem so much more concerned about the possibility of someone being accused than actually doing something to reduce the number of rapes.

It's almost like it's part of our culture...

 

[Slo]

Well, there's your text book "reasonable doubt." Any case would have been lost.

This is horrible and I am glad she did not get away with it.

But I wish there was half as much focus on rape accusations as there was on false accusations.

It creates a false impression to a lot of men in this country, when in reality rape is far too common and rarely is anyone punished for it.

Only on GAF. I never have heard a single person presenting false rape accusations as a problem outside of GAF.

 

[Slo]

Ugh.

So many people in this thread seem so much more concerned about the possibility of someone being accused than actually doing something to reduce the number of rapes.

It's almost like it's part of our culture...

1 parts victim culture, 2 parts narcissism. Everyone in the world is, at this very second, conspiring against us and trying to foil our life goals.

I mean, what else would they be doing?

 

[MUnited83]

Ugh.

So many people in this thread seem so much more concerned about the possibility of someone being accused than actually doing something to reduce the number of rapes.

It's almost like it's part of our culture...

Especially disturbing is all the jackasses that go SHE LIED, ARREST HERE, SUE HER and other bullshit. Jesus fucking christ, there not being enough evidence doesn't mean it didn't actually happen holy fucking shit.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Well, there's your text book "reasonable doubt." Any case would have been lost.



Only on GAF. I never have heard a single person presenting false rape accusations as a problem outside of GAF.

Never been to Reddit?

 

[Slo]

Especially disturbing is all the jackasses that go SHE LIED, ARREST HERE, SUE HER and other bullshit. Jesus fucking christ, there not being enough evidence doesn't mean it didn't actually happen holy fucking shit.

Agreed. For all we know she changed her mind and he really did rape her. But when it's a "my word against your word" scenario, well, you'd better at least have consistency on your side.

Never been to Reddit?

Not really. I would suppose the Venn diagram of posters on reddit and posters on neogaf has a lot of overlap.

 

[Metroxed]

I understand how constent works, and that it can be revoked (by either party) at any moment during sex. I also understand that if one of the parties is drunk, drugged or without their rational senses, and the other person takes advantage of this, it is also considered rape as the victim was not in a position to give consent (even if they seemingly do).

However, what happens when both parties are under the influence of alcohol? What if they meet at a party, both are somewhat drunk and both decide - in that state of mind - to have sex? If neither can give consent, what happens? Because potentially, either one of them (or both even) could wake up the morning after and think "I was drunk, I didn't want sex, I was raped". What then?

In such a scenario, it'd be difficult to prove who was and who wasn't drunk, and the odds are very likely against the male party.

Also, if both parties are in a clear state of mind and consent is given at the beginning, but then revoked... we can all assume the person revoking consent has to be perfectly clear about that, right? Like, try to stop and say "No, I don't want to continue". Because it seems like some are arguing that consent can just be revoked without any indication of it and the man should be constantly confirming that consent is still being given. That'd be nonsense.

Also, can consent be revoked after the whole thing is finished? Can someone (either party) decide the following day that they regret the whole thing and reach the conclusion that they were raped? What if they stop enjoying mid-act but decide not to say anything (out of shame, pressure, whatever), would it still be rape?

I'm not being rethoric, I genuinely would like to know the answer.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I understand how constent works, and that it can be revoked (by either party) at any moment during sex. I also understand that if one of the parties is drunk, drugged or without their rational senses, and the other person takes advantage of this, it is also considered rape as the victim was not in a position to give consent (even if they seemingly do).

However, what happens when both parties are under the influence of alcohol? What if they meet at a party, both are somewhat drunk and both decide - in that state of mind - to have sex? If neither can give consent, what happens? Because potentially, either one of them (or both even) could wake up the morning after and think "I was drunk, I didn't want sex, I was raped". What then?

In such a scenario, it'd be difficult to prove who was and who wasn't drunk, and the odds are very likely against the male party.

Also, if both parties are in a clear state of mind and consent is given at the beginning, but then revoked... we can all assume the person revoking consent has to be perfectly clear about that, right? Like, try to stop and say "No, I don't want to continue". Because it seems like some are arguing that consent can just be revoked without any indication of it and the man should be constantly confirming that consent is still being given. That'd be nonsense.

Also, can consent be revoked after the whole thing is finished? Can someone (either party) decide the following day that they regret the whole thing and reach the conclusion that they were raped? What if they stop enjoying mid-act but decide not to say anything (out of shame, pressure, whatever), would it still be rape?

I'm not being rethoric, I genuinely would like to know the answer.

Dude, you asked like 9 questions. Did you have bad experience recently?

To your last point, no, you're not a mind reader, but also it helps to read body language.

 

[Tonedeff]

He's got more to go on than she did.

Too true

 

[DavidDesu]

I understand how constent works, and that it can be revoked (by either party) at any moment during sex. I also understand that if one of the parties is drunk, drugged or without their rational senses, and the other person takes advantage of this, it is also considered rape as the victim was not in a position to give consent (even if they seemingly do).

However, what happens when both parties are under the influence of alcohol? What if they meet at a party, both are somewhat drunk and both decide - in that state of mind - to have sex? If neither can give consent, what happens? Because potentially, either one of them (or both even) could wake up the morning after and think "I was drunk, I didn't want sex, I was raped". What then?

In such a scenario, it'd be difficult to prove who was and who wasn't drunk, and the odds are very likely against the male party.

Also, if both parties are in a clear state of mind and consent is given at the beginning, but then revoked... we can all assume the person revoking consent has to be perfectly clear about that, right? Like, try to stop and say "No, I don't want to continue". Because it seems like some are arguing that consent can just be revoked without any indication of it and the man should be constantly confirming that consent is still being given. That'd be nonsense.

Also, can consent be revoked after the whole thing is finished? Can someone (either party) decide the following day that they regret the whole thing and reach the conclusion that they were raped? What if they stop enjoying mid-act but decide not to say anything (out of shame, pressure, whatever), would it still be rape?

I'm not being rethoric, I genuinely would like to know the answer.

This is the part where I'm worried that a few people do just feel embarrassed and maybe ashamed of themselves, which maybe turns into anger, and then turns into a rape allegation when at no point during proceedings has any kind of rape occurred. That's just not on and can destroy the accused's life and it does not help in the fight to convict actual cases of rape.

I get the sense that in this case the victim has been completely into it but has awoke the next day, had a hazy recollection, or no recollection, and made a snap judgement that she has been raped. Honestly if a similar situation had occurred to me, if I had been positively interacting with someone for a sustained period, had chosen to go back to theirs or taken them back to mine, but then woken up the next day not remembering exactly what I did or consented to, simply not knowing but knowing that something did end up happening, I'd just feel like: "well I put myself into that position and I have to take responsibility for that" in a way. Most people would feel shit the next day but accept they played their part in what happened, and it's sadly part of what happens when we all allow ourselves to get that drunk.

We either make sex while under the influence completely illegal or people start installing bedroom "dashcams" to record everything that happens. I dunno, it's simply a grey area and you're just going to get to the truth in many of these cases at the end of the day without full documentation of events.