Ray Rice (football player) cut by Baltimore Ravens, suspended indefinitely by NFL

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jacks81x said:
Had some good discussions with coworkers today about this incident. One of them, a female, asked if Rice would've gotten the same punishment and public outcry had he punched a man instead of a woman. I said probably not. She then asked if that isn't just another example of men viewing women as inferior, weaker beings. I was left speechless and didn't know how to respond. I mean, I never though of this as an equality issue. I've always just believed that a man should not beat a woman.

What do you guys think?
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I think you cant win with some people on the issue of sexism.

So its sexist that he is being punished more for hitting the "weaker" sex?....I guarantee those same people would be completely up in arms if the opposite happened and Ray Rice didnt get any punishment at all for knocking his future wife out. "It just goes to show you that the patriarchy thinks so little of women that they dont even bother punishing this man for punching her in the face, she is his property yadayadayada"


So no, I dont think your co-worker made a valid point, in fact, its complete bullshit. Some people will see sexism no matter what the issue because they can rationalize it in their mind so it must be true.

The situation is that you have a professional athlete that knocked out somebody who is physically much weaker than he is (dont tell me this is sexist because there is not way that this lady could go toe to toe with a guy who has a team of physical trainers and works out all day) when he could have resolved this issue without resorting to violence. i.e. restrain her, defend himself from her attacks, etc.
 
Saint Gregory said:
The police would have seized all of the tapes and the NFL would have had zero issues getting that footage from the police in this case.
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That's kinda the point. It had to be a police officer who sold a copy to TMZ.

If Goodell is lying, the ACPD will have a contradictory statement out by tomorrow.
 
Kusagari said:
If Goodell's lying he comes off as a complete con man that needs to be fired. If he's not then he comes off as incredibly incompetent that TMZ got the video before he, the head of the most valuable sports league in America, did.

Either way he looks like shit.
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I honestly don't think it matters. I think Goodell's going to get fired anyways because only an idiot would need to see the video to figure out why Rice was carrying his unconscious fiancee out of an elevator and its completely unconvincing he didn't see the video when Mortensen and others had clearly seen it before the leak.
 
jacks81x said:
Yea, we all saw the video. Her point was that a lot of the outcry is centered around the fact that it was a woman that he beat and not that he beat up someone. Her question is a valid one having thought about it a little bit now. The public will label people like Ray Rice and Chris Brown as women-beaters, and they'll be remembered infamously for a long time, but when it's a man beating up another man, typically they're quickly forgotten and the public outcry isn't as severe from what I've observed.
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I do see her point, but you can't control how someone perceives this stuff. I still think the fact that this is getting attention is important and I also would disagree with the idea that if this was a guy no one would care. I think if he did that to a man, while may one could argue the uproar from the media wouldn't be as big, I think Ray Rice would still have a lot to answer for and probably would've still gotten suspended etc. I also think that the fact that there is a tape of what happened makes this issue a lot easier for the media to talk about. Rice can't deny that there was an altercation and that he hit her because its on tape for everyone to see. If it wasn't, that could allow him to deny the altercation happened, deny he hit her, etc. So maybe people wouldn't be calling him a pos, but I think would still say its wrong and Rice needs to be punished and not 2 games punished.
 
DrGonzo615 said:
I think you cant win with some people on the issue of sexism.

So its sexist that he is being punished more for hitting the "weaker" sex?....I guarantee those same people would be completely up in arms if the opposite happened and Ray Rice didnt get any punishment at all for knocking his future wife out. "It just goes to show you that the patriarchy thinks so little of women that they dont even bother punishing this man for punching her in the face, she is his property yadayadayada"


So no, I dont think your co-worker made a valid point, in fact, its complete bullshit. Some people will see sexism no matter what the issue because they can rationalize it in their mind so it must be true.

The situation is that you have a professional athlete that knocked out somebody who is physically much weaker than he is (dont tell me this is sexist because there is not way that this lady could go toe to toe with a professional football player) when he could have resolved this issue without resorting to violence. i.e. restrain her, defend himself from her attacks, etc.
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I get what you're saying. However, doesn't that basically mean that gender equality isn't really achievable then because in certain social context (such as domestic violence) women will always be viewed as the "weaker" sex?
 
gogosox82 said:
I think if he did that to a man, while may one could argue the uproar from the media wouldn't be as big, I think Ray Rice would still have a lot to answer for and probably would've still gotten suspended etc.
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No question. I wasn't suggesting that he would go unpunished if the victim was male. I was just talking about the severity of the punishment and public response.
 
Well the Ravens sure have a good history, with Rice, Ray Lewis, and Terrell Suggs...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Suggs

Suggs has two children with Candace Williams. In December 2012 an attorney representing him confirmed Suggs surrendered his firearms to police in response to a court order filed the previous month by Ms. Williams. In 2009 Williams filed a complaint against Suggs alleging he threw a soap dispenser at her head, struck her in the chest with his hand and held a bottle of bleach over her and their 1 year old son.[27] According to a December 2012 report. In September of 2012 Suggs was accused of punching and dragging his girlfriend Candace Williams beside his car with his two children inside. A temporary protective order was placed against Suggs, causing him to surrender an AK-47 and 6 other guns.[28]
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jacks81x said:
I get what you're saying. However, doesn't that basically mean that gender equality isn't really achievable then because in certain social context (such as domestic violence) women will always be viewed as the "weaker" sex?
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Physical gender equality is a completely ridiculous notion. We are a sexually dimorphic species. Generally men have more upper body strength, its biological.

Now thats not to say that all men are physically stronger than women. A woman body builder would probably be able to bench press my doughy ass. But generally, if you look at a random man and a random women who do not really work out, most of the time the man will have more upper body strength.

As far as domestic violence goes, it should be on a case by case basis. Again, if a 5'4" 150lbs man was in an elevator and his 6'4" 240lbs body building wife knocked him the fuck out, I would fully expect the wife to be charged with domestic violence or at the very least be held accountable for being able to diffuse the situation non-violently but chose not to.
 
K.Jack said:
That's kinda the point. It had to be a police officer who sold a copy to TMZ.

If Goodell is lying, the ACPD will have a contradictory statement out by tomorrow.
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I was just talking to my brother who's a lawyer and he's insisting that the police couldn't release the tape to the NFL because even though Rice took plea it's still an open case until his probation is over.

I just can't bring myself to believe that the NFL would have made any judgement, especially one that initially lenient, without seeing all of the evidence. I just think that they never though that anyone else would ever see it but TMZ to the rescue.

A cop definitely had to have sold it to TMZ though.
 
So how did the Ravens think spousal abuse worked before the video released?

This is laughable. Hopefully now the standard has been set.
 
Saint Gregory said:
I was just talking to my brother who's a lawyer and he's insisting that the police couldn't release the tape to the NFL because even though Rice took plea it's still an open case until his probation is over.

I just can't bring myself to believe that the NFL would have made any judgement, especially one that initially lenient, without seeing all of the evidence. I just think that they never though that anyone else would ever see it but TMZ to the rescue.

A cop definitely had to have sold it to TMZ though.
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The thing I don't understand is that I don't get how Chris Mortensen was able to accurately describe the video weeks ago, yet Goodell apparently never had the ability to view it himself.
 
Angry Grimace said:
The thing I don't understand is that I don't get how Chris Mortensen was able to accurately describe the video weeks ago, yet Goodell apparently never had the ability to view it himself.
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Hopefully that's the kind of question sports "journalists" will actually look into...
 
jacks81x said:
Had some good discussions with coworkers today about this incident. One of them, a female, asked if Rice would've gotten the same punishment and public outcry had he punched a man instead of a woman. I said probably not. She then asked if that isn't just another example of men viewing women as inferior, weaker beings. I was left speechless and didn't know how to respond. I mean, I never though of this as an equality issue. I've always just believed that a man should not beat a woman.

What do you guys think?
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In this case, saying he hit the "Weaker" sex isn't a sexist comment in my opinion. Rice is a professional football player. Someone at the physical peak of human conditioning, punching someone a few feet smaller, and probably a few hundred pounds lighter is just a statement of fact. Compared to him, she is weaker. Most people would be weaker. If Rice had gotten into a fight with someone who was physically his equal, it's a different story in my view. Still a problem, still wrong, please don't get me wrong, but attacking someone who has no means of fighting back is taking it to a new level of shamefulness.
 
xbhaskarx said:
Hopefully that's the kind of question sports "journalists" will actually look into...
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Here's the thing - even without the video why does it matter? How could he not have enough evidence to go for more than 2 games?

“I think the expectations from around the league — even from the Ravens internally — was that it would be more than two games,” Mortensen answered. “We’ve all seen the TMZ video of Ray dragging [his fiancée] off an elevator. I’m told by numerous sources — or, a few good sources — that the video from inside the elevator, which we’ve never seen, shows Janay surely attacking Ray, so he’s in a confined area. But still, what they tell you to do, is get away from it or restrain. You can restrain her, but you can’t deliver a punch, an uppercut, which Ray allegedly did inside that elevator. I’m told that Janay hit her head on the railing. That would seem to justify a pretty severe sanction.”
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I'm pretty sure this is gonna spiral and Goodell's gonna lose his job.
 
Was he their star player? I'm still trying to figure how beating your spouse only resulted in a two game suspension to begin with. I'm sure Ravens were pressured from the Commissioner's office to drop him.
 
BIGWORM said:
Was he their star player? I'm still trying to figure how beating your spouse only resulted in a two game suspension to begin with. I'm sure Ravens were pressured from the Commissioner's office to drop him.
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They're prefer to sweep it under the rug because the NFL is about churning out craploads of money and dealing with your nutty employees requires you to take some bad PR.
 
entrement said:
What did Ray do?
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iLD1ARKidM58D.gif
 
BIGWORM said:
Was he their star player? I'm still trying to figure how beating your spouse only resulted in a two game suspension to begin with. I'm sure Ravens were pressured from the Commissioner's office to drop him.
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He's a declining player (running backs have an extremely short life span). The only reason the Ravens didn't cut him before, was because of the cap hit.

Saint Gregory said:
I was just talking to my brother who's a lawyer and he's insisting that the police couldn't release the tape to the NFL because even though Rice took plea it's still an open case until his probation is over.

I just can't bring myself to believe that the NFL would have made any judgement, especially one that initially lenient, without seeing all of the evidence. I just think that they never though that anyone else would ever see it but TMZ to the rescue.

A cop definitely had to have sold it to TMZ though.
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Actually they kinda had to. They had to make a judgement on him before the season. It's the issue that they're facing with McDonald. Do you suspend a player indefinitely everytime they're accused of a crime? The player union would fight that to the death.
 
nomster said:
Agree that this whole scenario is stupid, but why did the video have to be the catalyst? What did people think happened? He slapped or pushed her unconscious?

Should have been done from the get go
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There was always the unlikely possibility that he was defending himself and maybe he didn't mean to retaliate so hard. But I find it hard to believe the Ravens/NFL didn't have access to this video beforehand, now that it's leaked this is a total damage control move.
 
entrement said:
He was never convicted in a court a law. I just don't see why people keep bringing that up in this case. ESPN hired him in the first place, so I'm sure they saw it as a moot point already handled by the justice system.
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Agreed. He merely lied to fuck up a murder trial. What a sweetheart.
 
demosthenes said:
Neither was OJ.
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Sure. But if that's the beef that he somehow got away with murder, they shouldn't have hired him in the first place.

I'm fine if you think he's scum. But expecting ESPN to bench him due to Ray Rice makes no sense since he was hired in the first place, clearing their moral vetting process or lack thereof.
 
jacks81x said:
No question. I wasn't suggesting that he would go unpunished if the victim was male. I was just talking about the severity of the punishment and public response.
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Well let's say it was a man. So Rice gets into an argument with a man on the elevator (let's say he tried to hit on his wife or called his wife a name and Rice took offense) and Rice punches him and then throws his head against the elevator wall and guy gets knocked out. Elevator door opens and he just leaves him there and walks out. Tape gets out and story breaks a few days later. Honestly, i think the response would be just as bad. Just to leave a guy there unconscious on the floor and do nothing or try to get the guy help after you assaulted him like that? He would've gotten tons of shit for it. Whether it rises to the level of scrutiny this has is something I don't think anyone can answer but what he did wouldn't be acceptable whether it was a male or female. I would also say if the NFL would've given out a proper suspension instead of this 2 games stuff, then maybe this tape would've been as big a deal as it was.
 
entrement said:
Sure. But if that's the beef that he somehow got away with murder, they shouldn't have hired him in the first place.

I'm fine if you think he's scum. But expecting ESPN to bench him due to Ray Rice makes no sense since he was hired in the first place, clearing their moral vetting process or lack thereof.
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I don't know enough about his situation. I've heard pieces but don't know enough to form an opinion and don't really care. I was just pointing out that one piece of your post.
 
Ray Lewis could provide further context on the situation that no other anchor could. He was Ray Rice's teammate, is his friend, and has dealt with being disliked by people for running afoul of the law.

ESPN was not about to tell Ray Lewis to take the night off.
 
Arkos said:
Ray Lewis talking about Ray Rice on ESPN lololololololololol
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Ray Lewis: "There's No Comparison Between Me And Ray Rice"

ESPN rolled out Ray Lewis to talk Ray Rice tonight, because Lewis had mentored Rice during his time in Baltimore, and presumably also because Lewis was involved in one of the NFL's highest-profile criminal investigations in the past decade. But when Suzy Kolber brought that up, Lewis shut it right down. No, he says, there's no comparison to be drawn between himself and Ray Rice.
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Didn't Ray Lewis mentor Suggs, another Ravens domestic abuser, as well? Maybe the lesson here is don't have Ray Lewis mentor people.


Steve Young reaction at the end of that video LOL

entrement said:
He was never convicted in a court a law.
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Neither was Ray Rice?
 
brochiller said:
Fuck yeah. Go Keith Olbermann. Sports journalists never have the balls to say shit like this. God forbid their "sources" dry up in the name of some journalistic integrity.

Edit: Ok maybe this is a little extreme...

PgihC.jpg
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"Back in April, Olbermann morphed into the patron saint of ink-stained wretches. On his show, he trashed Hermann for cavalierly calling for people to lose their jobs, adding: 'You want what’s left of New Jersey’s free press to vanish. Who are you, Vladimir Putin?'
Four months later, Olbermann now sounds like he’s reciting directly from the Book of Hermann. This provides concrete evidence that Olbermann, creepy and condescending as ever, is a stone hypocrite."
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/r...ront-page-reveals-hypocrite-article-1.1904100

Olbermann is a joke.
 
xbhaskarx said:
Ray Lewis: "There's No Comparison Between Me And Ray Rice"



Didn't Ray Lewis mentor Suggs, another Ravens domestic abuser, as well? Maybe the lesson here is don't have Ray Lewis mentor people.


Steve Young reaction at the end of that video LOL
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Lol. Looks like Steve thinks Ray was guilty too.

Draxal said:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/r...ront-page-reveals-hypocrite-article-1.1904100

Olbermann is a joke.
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Yeah, I edited my post above a bit too. While I like the passion at first I realized after watching the rest of the video it almost seems like he's just saying the most ridiculous shit possible to get people talking. Almost to the point where he's trying to make the story about his video instead of what actually happened.
 
xbhaskarx said:
Ray Lewis: "There's No Comparison Between Me And Ray Rice"



Didn't Ray Lewis mentor Suggs, another Ravens domestic abuser, as well? Maybe the lesson here is don't have Ray Lewis mentor people.


Steve Young reaction at the end of that video LOL



Neither was Ray Rice?
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Yes he was. It was a joke of a sentence, but he has charged and admitted that he did it.

Technically Lewis got convicted of obstruction of justice, but not murder.
 
Mike Ditka Laments Ray Rice Suspension: "His Earning Power Is Destroyed"
"I don't know Ray at all," Ditka said before, for some reason, feeling the need to continue. "I'm sure he's not a bad guy, but he made a bad mistake.

"Hey, two lives, are ruined," Ditka said. "These two lives are ruined. His earning power is destroyed. That's an important thing."
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If you don't know someone at all, and you have seen a video of him knocking a woman out in a casino elevator, why would you be "sure he's not a bad guy"?
 
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