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[Marvel]

Having loved 1886, I'm very confident I'll enjoy UD also...

 

[-MD-]

Depends, is it a $60 game?

 

[Takao]

I kind of want to read a book on Until Dawn's development. It's quietly become a mini-Last Guardian. We saw our first snippets back at GDC 2010, when it was a Move flashlight horror game. Now it's kind of the opposite of that while still being a horror game.

 

[CivRab]

This.

The game is not trying to be more than it is, at least that's what I'm getting from the trailers etc.

Completely agree, this has been clearly advertised as a Dynamic story experience its all about choices and how you choices affect the story, much like Heavy Rain but will try to keep the adrenaline pumping with a non stop action pace.
Whereas the Order masqueraded as a modern day third person shooter with a rich detailed world and ended up being an interactive story, completely linear, with no replay ability pushing you down a 6 hour corridor with about as much depth to it as the shallow end of a kids swimming pool.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't understand what your talking about OP.

The Order was not bashed because it was cinematic. It was bashed because it tried to be a movie with limited interactivity when it was sold as a third person shooter game.

You can be a Walking Dead, a Heavy Rain, an Until Dawn as long as your making it clear that's what the game is about from the outset.

 

[Some Nobody]

OK OK OK ......

I know a lot of people just want to "move on" from the whole The Order:1886 fiasco, but I feel this is an important issue that NEEDS to be discussed. The Order: 1886's release has come and gone and by now, everyone has heard of the game's shortcomings (how egregious those are I'll leave to you). I picked up my copy last week and beat the game. I felt it was a decent experience, but I'd be lying if I felt they didn't FUBAR what could've been an epic PS4 single player campaign. There was a lot of issues that people had with the game. However, it seems the primary issue people have with the gameplay is an over-emphasis on "Cinematic gameplay" and all that entails. Lack of control, QTEs, forcing gameplay mechanics for presentation over choice, etc. When I first opened the game, I saw an ad inside for another game, Until Dawn. At first I didn't make much of it. However, the further I went through the title, the more my thoughts were consumed with the idea that we may yet be in for a repeat of this blunder.

I don't think I am really enlightening most folks here when I say that Until Dawn shares this same intense focus of its gameplay mechanics on cinematic presentation over traditional mechanics, like The Order. In fact, it goes way further. Leaping pretty much into the "Interactive Movie" territory. Therefore, it has been making me wonder if this game is destined to be castigated as badly or even worse than The Order was. I don't think Sony needs more of the kind of vitriol that game got. Reviews have been mercilessly vituperating that title and a repeat would REALLY damage the prestige of Sony's 1st Party brand. Especially, given Sony has had a number of other failures/shortcomings with its studios, even before The Order dropped (Knack, anyone?).

I've watched videos of its gameplay and the game seriously looks like something you'd swear spawned from Quantic Dreams' David Cage. It was rumored they had a PS4 title in development. If this title wasn't announced before that rumor, you'd swear this was it. I'm still baffled as to why Sony decided to create another title of this sort given the fact that they still have QD working for them. Do they really need two studios making such titles? Given Sony's continued relationship with QD, their development of The Order and this title, it seems like as if they have some deep held affinity for these "Cinematic games". It still seems odd Sony shitcanned that Stig Asmussen game, but they keep pouring money into these games. Why?

As for the game itself, I don't know what to say. As I said, it looks clearly in the vein of Heavy Rain. Once again, I'll leave it to you as to whether that is a good thing. I actually enjoyed that game, but only as a "one time" thing. Its not the kind of title I yearn for and desire to see developed by multiple teams. One title every handful of years is enough. Given how vilified The Order was for its "movie-like" qualities, which were only a fraction of the game, a large part of me is absolutely dreading the prospect of how badly this Until Dawn will be maligned since its brimming with such facets. The nature of the narrative too could be a subject of ridicule and derision given how much it seems like a typical "slasher flick" mixed with recent horror movie tropes from the SAW/Hostel and "Haunting/Ghost" films.

What do you think? Are you worried about the potential media firestorm? Are you looking forward to this? What are your hopes and fears?

For such an delightfully stupefying grasp of the English language, you seem to lack context. The Order had one impressive trailer: the one at E3. It had no gameplay, and after that it went on radio silence for the better part of a year until we finally started getting lukewarm responses to the bits that gaming website writers were allowed to play. Before that, for a very long time, people barely had an idea of what the game even wanted to be.

That's a sharp contrast to what we got with Until Dawn and its last major showing at a gaming convention. You knew exactly what that was--there wasn't even a question. So as long as it delivers on the experience it offers there, I don't think it will repeat RAD's mistakes with The Order.

 

[The Silver]

Order wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the amount flak it did if it was Heavy Rain type game instead of a barebones generic 3rd person shooter.

 

[King_Moc]

No, the game is entirely aware of what it is. It's in the Telltale/Quantic Dream ballpark. The problem is when a game tries to do both, but does neither very well.

Order wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the amount flak it did if it was Heavy Rain type game instead of a barebones generic 3rd person shooter.

There was genuine disappointment in the thread when it was revealed as people realised it was going to have shooter elements. It had looked good up to that point.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Oh, make no mistake about it. It will get really bad reviews. Giant Bomb will mock it until the sun goes down. And then continue when it rises again. But its not striving to be anything remotely like The Order. Either mechanically, thematically, or otherwise. The Order 1886 looked like it wanted to be a blockbuster, Until Dawn looks like a fun popcorn flick. Something a room full of people can play together on the couch. (In a matter of speaking, of course - only one person would be driving.) The hell with video game reviewers, they're a dime a dozen.

 

[Alienous]

It isn't masquerading as a competent third-person shooter, so I doubt it'll have the same complaints.

 

[mrklaw]

I think there must be something wrong with me, because I really enjoyed Knack, Driveclub and The Order, yet apparantly they are all shit or mediocre at best. And Until Dawn looks cheesy as fuck - looking forward to it.

I'm actually happy that sony allows such a diverse range of games, even when they might not be the most commercially driven. Yes they could probably do with a slightly stronger hand on the tiller in some cases, but that's about it.

 

[Catatafish]

I might be wrong, but I suspect that sony's management is obsessed with graphical presentation over gameplay.

The so called resolution war is sony's way of dominating the market by showing the PS4 graphical capabilities over its competitor. This will only bite them later as the reviews and the general reception of their games heavily criticize the lack of compelling gameplay.

 

[wildfire]

When I saw the previews for the Order I felt it was boring. Until Dawn previews were never boring.

Until Dawn executes on its gameplay that the Order was clearly lacking in and eventually proved to be.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I think there must be something wrong with me, because I really enjoyed Knack, Driveclub and The Order, yet apparantly they are all shit or mediocre at best. And Until Dawn looks cheesy as fuck - looking forward to it.

Kind of how I felt with Infamous Second Son. Apparently people think that game is mediocre too. But I sat down and played through it twice over the weekend and had a friggin' blast. I'm not going to say it was the most amazing game ever, but I had a lot of fun with it.

People on message boards tend to see everything in extremes. A game is either awesome or complete shit. Anytime I see someone shouting "OMG GOAT!" my ignore user finger starts to get real itchy.

That's not to say I'm not guilty of the same thing from time to time. When we get passionate about something, we tend to exaggerate a little.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I might be wrong, but I suspect that sony's management is obsessed with graphical presentation over gameplay.

The so called resolution war is sony's way of dominating the market by showing the PS4 graphical capabilities over its competitor. This will only bite them later as the reviews and the general reception of their games heavily criticize the lack of compelling gameplay.

Your obviously wrong. What the devs priorities are, are based on their own sensibilities. Not what Sony mandates obviously. Sony has the right to champion being the strongest console on the market, that's just a matter of course

 

[mrklaw]

I might be wrong, but I suspect that sony's management is obsessed with graphical presentation over gameplay.

The so called resolution war is sony's way of dominating the market by showing the PS4 graphical capabilities over its competitor. This will only bite them later as the reviews and the general reception of their games heavily criticize the lack of compelling gameplay.

Unless things have changed drastically since PS3, then I disagree. Sony seem to give their teams free reign - arguably too free sometimes. At least on PS3 the results are very diverse including commercial blockbusters like uncharted, but also titles like journey and flower. Seeing misfires like The Order is frustrating, but more so when you can see the potential within - the game falls betwee two stools yet could have been so much more without massive changes.

 

[semiconscious]

I don't think Sony needs more of the kind of vitriol that game got. Reviews have been mercilessly vituperating that title and a repeat would REALLY damage the prestige of Sony's 1st Party brand. Especially, given Sony has had a number of other failures/shortcomings with its studios, even before The Order dropped (Knack, anyone?)...

if i didn't know better, i'd say it almost sounds like you're trying to get the ball rolling early? ...

 

[p3tran]

am I worried? no.
anybody worried about sending preference messages, should just follow the good-old golden advice "vote with your wallet".
sooner or later your message of preference will get through to the recipient.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Cinematic isn't a genre.

This, and I wish GAF would stop acting like it is and lumping anything which tries to focus on its story into this category with all the negative baggage it holds.

The Order was a game which didn't seem to know what it wanted to be, and as such, save for its visuals, failed to excel in anything (I still enjoyed it, mind). Until Dawn knows exactly what it wants to do so players expectations should be more reigned in as a result.

 

[Llyrwenne]

"Man, game X really got slammed didn't it? That got me thinking; what about completely unrelated and different game Y that has at most some superficial similarities with game X and is made by an entirely different studio? Don't you guys think that that game might suck too?"

I really don't see any reason for legitimate concern here...
It is a completely different game made by a completely different studio that tries to achieve different things through different mechanics and sets a completely different tone. At best there are some superficial similarities in that both games 'have button prompts', but that's like asking whether the next Portal is going to suck after playing the most recent Call of Duty because they both 'have shooting mechanics'. I hope we'll soon move away from pushing a broad subset of games into a box using the vague 'cinematic'-moniker, because it is getting somewhat tiresome.

"Man, this apple I just had was disgusting! That got me thinking; do you guys think this orange will taste any better?"

 

[Garuda1One]

When I saw the previews for the Order I felt it was boring. Until Dawn previews were never boring.

Until Dawn executes on its gameplay that the Order was clearly lacking in and eventually proved to be.

this,, i always love watching until dawn previews and gameplay...

this genre is unique and if they execute it perfectly like the walking dead or heavy rain with branching stories, different endings/outcome.. it will be a hit...

 

[bombshell]

This is a weird comparison.

A better question would be if Until Dawn will repeat the mistakes in Beyond: 2 Souls.

 

[Replicant]

It's not like this game had any hype of any kind in the first place.

And I doubt it'll be as dull as 1886. Just looking at the trailer put me on edge.

 

[Overside]

As long as the order sells, why would they change?

Might want to get prepared for being marginalized in the current state of the industry.

 

[Carcetti]

I expect I'll enjoy Until Dawn a lot, lot more than I did Order 1886. Whatever this game is gonna be, I doubt it's gonna be boring. And like Life is Strange did, I expect Until Dawn to beat Beyond: Two Souls in the cinematic experience department.

 

[Bowl0l]

I don't care if it made it as GOTY or sales is worse than The Order.

The only thing in my mind, what Sony can include in C.E. of this game?

 

[eXistor]

Not really, Until Dawn was always an interactive choose-your-own-adventure style game like Heavy Rain or TWD. The Order had blandness written all over it since the very first gameplay reveal. Until Dawn actually has me excited since its first (re)reveal. I love games like this, but they just have to embrace what they are and know exactly what they want. The Order does not fall into these categories.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't care if it made it as GOTY or sales is worse than The Order.

The only thing in my mind, what Sony can include in C.E. of this game?

The most obvious thing would be a replica of the killers mask

 

[Wiktor]

Order got trashed for being terribly derrivative. I don't think Untill Dawn will have that problem

 

[Hyun Sai]

Until Dawn won't receive the same backlash as The Order 1886 because the game is very clear in what it is trying to be unlike The Order 1886.

• It was always positioned as an interactive horror adventure type of game.
• It will have multiple endings and multiple choices throughout the game.
• It is purposefully cashing on the B-Horror movie cliche, and there aren't many games like that on current generation.

In the case of The Order 1886, no one expected a game with almost zero replay value and no incentive to replay again. Until Dawn is certainly not like that and offers atleast some sort of replay value like Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. Both games aren't comparable at all.

This. I don't see how those games are comparable at all.

 

[BokehKing]

The PSX live stage demo with the audience participation seems to be a macrocosm of the ideal playing environment for Until Dawn so if that was any indication I think folks will find virtue in what the game has to offer.

Yes none if us has a 1000 + people sitting behind us at home acting like a price is right crowd, telling us what to do


Maybe a twitch chat room could silently mimic that experience

 

[valkyre]

The acting looks ridiculous as fuck
There is zero sense of stress/horror etc, because of that awful acting and the unbelievably cheesy lines.

The whole thing has an atmosphere that resembles more teen flicks like Scary Movie, rather than proper intelligent/meaningful horror stuff.

Its going to be slaughtered. I honestly cant take this game seriously. The acting... I know I already said it, but my God the acting... its just.... no words really...

I hope I am dead wrong with this, but yeah... whatever... as it is now, I feel embarrassed to even look at the game being demoed...

 

[SolidSnakex]

The acting looks ridiculous as fuck
There is zero sense of stress/horror etc, because of that awful acting and the unbelievably cheesy lines.

The whole thing has an atmosphere that resembles more teen flicks like Scary Movie, rather than proper intelligent/meaningful horror stuff.

Its going to be slaughtered. I honestly cant take this game seriously. The acting... I know I already said it, but my God the acting... its just.... no words really...

I hope I am dead wrong with this, but yeah... whatever... as it is now, I feel embarrassed to even look at the game being demoed...

It's inspired by teen slasher films like Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th. Those movies aren't exactly known for their Oscar worthy acting.

 

[kikonawa]

Until dawn is way too overhyped.its a qte game with nice gfx. I cant understand people willingly paying 60$

 

[eXistor]

The acting looks ridiculous as fuck
There is zero sense of stress/horror etc, because of that awful acting and the unbelievably cheesy lines.

All intended, this is inspired by slasher films. Have you seen many slasher films with top-notch acting and award-winning dialogue? You're pretty much naming all the reasons I'm excited for this game. You're expecting the Exorcist, but we're getting Friday the 13th. Both very different, but in their own way equally good horror movies.

 

[travisbickle]

As long as the order sells, why would they change?

Might want to get prepared for being marginalized in the current state of the industry.

"marginalised" I'm pretty sure the OP love FPS games, he'll be fine.

 

[Impeccable]

The acting looks ridiculous as fuck
There is zero sense of stress/horror etc, because of that awful acting and the unbelievably cheesy lines.

The whole thing has an atmosphere that resembles more teen flicks like Scary Movie, rather than proper intelligent/meaningful horror stuff.

Its going to be slaughtered. I honestly cant take this game seriously. The acting... I know I already said it, but my God the acting... its just.... no words really...

I hope I am dead wrong with this, but yeah... whatever... as it is now, I feel embarrassed to even look at the game being demoed...

That is the point.

Good grief.

 

[-MD-]

Until dawn is way too overhyped.its a qte game with nice gfx. I cant understand people willingly paying 60$

Until Dawn has hype?

 

[KORNdoggy]

It'll be fine. The game seems to know exactly what it wants to be.

this. i don't see it as a "mistake" and i didnt for the order either. it's just a case of whether you enjoy those things or not. personally i do. i like heavily cinematic, story driven experiences. and i think there is room for both them and more "gamey" experiences too.

i will say this though...it would be sad to see until dawn get reviewed as something it never intended to be, rather then reviewed for what it is. that was largely the case with the order and it didnt seem fair (driveclub too on an unrelated note)

 

[Castef]

I actually do not think The Order made proper "mistakes". It is well aimed at a certain kind of user base and I do think that Until Dawn targets the very same users.

They are both very "cinematic" experiences where gameplay is not the main focus. These, along with the next Quantic Dream project (and, i suspect, Uncharted 4 to a certain degree) will fit well in the kind of experience Sony wants to provide with its first-party titles.

 

[ShamePain]

The voice acting is hilariously garbage, but the game looks alright.

 

[valkyre]

That is the point.

Good grief.

Well they should stop advertising it as solely "survival horror" and add the "comedy" tag each time they talk about the game.

Plus it doesnt change the fact that the marriage of ridiculous and horror is not appealing to me which is ofcourse my opinion.

I stand by my prediction that the game is going to be critically slaughtered and I will gladly and hapily eat crow if it doesnt. I am not wishing for the game to tank, I hope it is good beyond my expectations. But I dont see it happening.

Slasher films like many have said aint exactly quality stuff , so I certainly dont expect a game to change the field dramatically...

 

[RoboPlato]

I think the replayability of Until Dawn will give it better word of mouth with players than The Order. Critically it probably won't do well.

 

[Steiner84]

people expected gameplay from the order.
people dont expect gameplay from until dawn.


at least thats how i see it.
until dawn never claimed to be more than what was shown so far (QTE driven, heavy rain like thing).
Im lloking forward to UD

 

[valkyre]

people expected gameplay from the order.
people dont expect gameplay from until dawn.


at least thats how i see it.
until dawn never claimed to be more than what was shown so far (QTE driven, heavy rain like thing).
Im lloking forward to UD

The difference is that Heavy Rain evoked urgency, mystery, suspense and a serious tone. Sure the cliches and some poor dialogue/acting was there.

But the atmosphere was spot on. The characters were interesting and the direction was great.

You didnt have enough gameplay but the story and the events/scenes were what keep you going.

Until Dawn looks like something completely ridiculous to the point that any interest in its characters and story becomes obsolete. That is my opinion. Also they do market the game towards the survival horror and completely omit the ridiculous part. In fact, I seriously dont see any kind of "horror" in it... baffled even by the use of the term...

I dont know. It is an extremely unappealing project for me. I see no reason for its existence. I would perhaps give it a go if it was a small indie game that would cost 10-15 $. But I would not even touch this at 60-70$ pricetag.

But then again, if it manages to surprise me, like I said, I will happily eat my crow.

 

[Eggbok]

Until dawn is way too overhyped.its a qte game with nice gfx. I cant understand people willingly paying 60$

Overhyped? It's really not though lol! Overhyped is such an overused word. Titanfall was overhyped, as was Watch Dogs. This game is no where near either of them so how is this overhyped? The last time I've seen anyone actually talk about this game was in December of last year during the Playstation event.

 

[Impeccable]

I have never seen it advertised as "survival horror".

It's always been very clear since the the last major reveal that it was a Quantic Dream type game set in the cheesy horror movie slasher films of the 80s. It is what it is.

The Order tried to merge Quantic Dream games and third person shooters and didn't do either one well enough to score critic praise. There's nothing wrong with pushing gaming. They aren't all going to be home runs but I'm glad developers are trying new stuff.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Until Dawn looks like something completely ridiculous to the point that any interest in its characters and story becomes obsolete. That is my opinion. Also they do market the game towards the survival horror and completely omit the ridiculous part.

I dont know. It is an extremely unappealing project for me. I see no reason for its existence. I would perhaps give it a go if it was a small indie game that would cost 10-15 $. But I would not even touch this at 60$ pricetag.

They've marketed as a teen slasher movie in the form of a game from the very start. That's exactly what it is. It just sounds like the slasher genre doesn't appeal to you, which is perfectly fine. But there's a reason that slashers are actually a very popular form of horror. And it's surprising that it's taken so long for a large publisher to try to tap the market in gaming.

 

[Loakum]

Heavy Rain was well received. I don't see why Until Dawn won't get the same kind of support. We know what kind of game Until Dawn is. I seriously doubt it will get the kind of gleeful over-the-top hatred, the order 1886 received.

 

[pokeystaples]

I think Until Dawn is really clear about what it is. There is no bait and switch. NOT saying there was one with The Order, but it was very clear that commercials were pushing this thing as a TPS with a story rather than a story with some TPS elements. I know going into Until Dawn, that I am essentially getting a choose your own adventure book, while I would have been kinda pissed if I had picked up The Order because I assumed it would be Uncharted in ye olden times mixed with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and that is definitely not what it is.