Releasing Halo Infinite for Xbox One is a huge mistake

MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Member
It's not like the Xbox One has been doing fantastically well in the sales department. What Microsoft REALLY needed for next gen was a reset back to zero. Forget the Xbox One, it was a massive failure. Sure let all the XBO games be playable on the new console, but no more new first party releases on the thing for gods sakes.

Instead of going with a reset with Xbox Series X and starting off fresh with an exclusive Halo Infinite build from the ground up for Series X, they are coming out with an Xbox One title that is supported by Xbox Series X. And will get upgraded as time goes on but I have to wonder if the game will even be a huge seller for Microsoft with what they've shown now.

So basically my opinion is that they should just scrap the Xbox Version, don't even release it for Xbox One, just make it exclusive for XBSX and tighten up the graphics to lvl 20.

I think that's what many people were expecting, a new fresh Halo built from the ground up for a next gen platform. Alas.
 
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i think they should release Halo Infinite for infinite devices

And then they should release its arch nemesis Halo 0, exclusively for Xbox Series X (yet mysteriously on Steam as well).
 
It's too late for that.
So your plan is for 343 to scrap the Xbox One version now a fee months from launch, 'tighten the graphics to lvl 20' and only release on XSX?

How long is it gonna take them to tighten the graphics to lvl 20?
What game do they release XSX with in the meantime while they're polishing Infinite?

If they were gonna scrap the Xbox One version they should have made that decision three years ago. It's too late now.
 
Yeah, great way to piss off the 50+ million loyal paying customers who've been starved for games for the last seven years, especially those that bought their premium system very recently.

There's a reason they're taking this approach. If The Xbone sold twice what it did you can bet your bottom dollar they probably wouldn't be.
 
Nah, they can't go back on their promises now.

Nobody left behind, scalability, etc.

They've got no choice but to see it through.
 
It's too late at this point. Microsoft also don't seem to care how many new consoles they sell. It's all about software and Gamepass now.
 
JimiNutz said:
It's too late for that.
So your plan is for 343 to scrap the Xbox One version now a fee months from launch, 'tighten the graphics to lvl 20' and only release on XSX?

How long is it gonna take them to tighten the graphics to lvl 20?
What game do they release XSX with in the meantime while they're polishing Infinite?

If they were gonna scrap the Xbox One version they should have made that decision three years ago. It's too late now.
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I agree it is too late noe, I was being a bit sarcastic as I know thats not realistic to expect.

But honestly it would have been the way better business move.
 
AV said:
Yeah, great way to piss off the 50+ million loyal paying customers who've been starved for games for the last seven years, especially those that bought their premium system very recently.

There's a reason they're taking this approach. If The Xbone sold twice what it did you can bet your bottom dollar they probably wouldn't be.
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Xbox has always been horrible with first party releases at the tail end of the generation, even on Xbox 360.

All those studios they acquired recently these past years should have been working on Xbox Series X killer apps
 
I don't think you understand what they are going for with Halo. GaaS that keeps evolving with a huge multiplayer aspect. For this last part you want as many players as possible, hence they release it on every device possible.
 
Lvl 20 is not possible at the console launch. Just have a look at Forza 5 and then at Forza Horizon 4. Like day and night. Level 20 takes years, it doesn't really matter if they support Xbox One for one or two years. All big 3rd parties support PS4 / One for at least 2 years as well. I don't think we see jaw dropping first or third party games before 2023.
 
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RyuCookingSomeRice said:
Xbox has always been horrible with first party releases at the tail end of the generation, even on Xbox 360.

All those studios they acquired recently these past years should have been working on Xbox Series X killer apps
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They've been horrible with first party releases for the entire generation. Stacked up against Sony it isn't even close. Fewer killer apps = fewer sales.

The new studios working on a bunch of new games is great news, but they're evidently nowhere near ready. Asking people who just had a really weak console cycle - and again especially those that dropped $500 on an X1X - to blow another $500 just to play Halo 8 with purdy grafix would be such a smack in the face.
 
RyuCookingSomeRice said:
I agree it is too late noe, I was being a bit sarcastic as I know thats not realistic to expect.

But honestly it would have been the way better business move.
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Maybe but also maybe not.

If Infinite drives a lot of Gamepass subscriptions and those players get hooked on Infinite and then upgrade to XSX hardware in a year or two then it could work out just fine.

From a personal perspective I would have preferred that they developed Infinite for XSX and delivered a truly next gen Halo experience at launch but that doesn't necessarily mean that would have been the better business move or long term strategy
 
Designing it with the Series X as a baseline would have meant 343i spending 2 1/2 years in pre-production, twiddling their thumbs. Untenable from a business standpoint. The Series X hardware was nowhere close to finalized at that time. Zen 1 and RDNA1 did not even exist when this game started development, let alone Zen 2, RDNA2. Plus, unless they were going to have 343i put out some smaller Halo game as a stopgap, putting this on Series X and PC only would have left nearly all of their gamepass subscribers in the cold. Something they can not do.

No doubt the One is holding this game back technically and therefore creatively but it was the correct business decision.
 
Keep in mind that it isn't just Xbox One -- it's also Xcloud, which is currently at base XO capability and will remain so, and that the majority of GamePass subscribers are on older consoles right now.

I do agree, though. A ground-up Halo, started for Series X years ago, could possibly have been something to behold, and a huge feather in the console's cap. Microsoft doesn't seem to want to be that kind of company anymore, though. Series X is just one bullet point in a wide range of access points and products for Xbox gaming. Is that a good idea? A bad idea? I don't know, but that's the route they appear to be on.

I do wonder if another... less troubled developer, could have straddled the divide better. Or is Infinite just that challenging to the original Xbox One, that visuals have to be created at such a retrograde fidelity?
 
-Arcadia- said:
Keep in mind that it isn't just Xbox One -- it's also Xcloud, which is currently at base XO capability and will remain so, and that the majority of GamePass subscribers are on older consoles right now.
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xCloud is moving to XSX hardware as we speak
 
and 3 others said:
A few questions.
Do systems hold each other back?
If true, will multiplatform games being made for XB1 hurt PS5 games?
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A lot of developers will have separate teams working on current gen and next gen versions of their games. Sometimes they will even have completely different versions of the same game across current gen and next gen.

So in summary: it depends.

Not everyone is 343 either, read into that what you will.
 
TheGrat1 said:
Designing it with the Series X as a baseline would have meant 343i spending 2 1/2 years in pre-production, twiddling their thumbs. Untenable from a business standpoint. The Series X hardware was nowhere close to finalized at that time. Zen 1 and RDNA1 did not even exist when this game started development, let alone Zen 2, RDNA2. Plus, unless they were going to have 343i put out some smaller Halo game as a stopgap, putting this on Series X and PC only would have left nearly all of their gamepass subscribers in the cold. Something they can not do.

No doubt the One is holding this game back technically and therefore creatively but it was the correct business decision.
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Holy smokes an actual educated response kudos sir you have one a free chicken dinner for this evening..
 
X-Fighter said:
xCloud is moving to XSX hardware as we speak
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Not quite. A single XSX-based hardware in their facilities will act as four different base Xbox One consoles, streaming four base Xbox One streams to different users.

This was confirmed and gone over in detail at the Series X reveals earlier this year. They were quite proud of the hardware being able to do this.

The changeover will assuredly happen one day, but for now, Microsoft is more focused on sheer efficiency and economics for XCloud.
 
Microsoft Now =
Top Priority, Netflix of AA Games on PC, Then, Hardware Sales, AAA Investment.
Why? - AAA are risky business and MS doesn't necessarily has sureshot talented developers like Sony, Nintendo. All their AAA will be something they can milk for 5+ years. They are happy to throw money at indie devs or respected indie devs for occasional releases.

Neglecting Xbox One audience would be unwise even though they set themselves back in front of hardcore gamers. They will continue to provide the illusion that they wanna compete toe to toe but inside they are going this route, which is PERFECT from a business point of view.

Sony keeps making amazing AAA games and sell hardware.
Nintendo does what Shark tale thinks is right.
Microsoft will engage non-hardcore players with interesting AA games on their Monthly service with literal handful of AAA game for hardcores.
 
and 3 others said:
A few questions.
Do systems hold each other back?
If true, will multiplatform games being made for XB1 hurt PS5 games?
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Historically the biggest platform gets to be the base console. So in your example multiplatform games built for PS4 would be holding PS5 back.

But that's why 1st party games exist. To make next gen games when third party would not. Ms just dropped the ball or, possibly, was not interested in selling Series X. Because a 2 year gap from launch, before Series X 1st party games get released, is a LONG time.
TheGrat1 said:
No doubt the One is holding this game back technically and therefore creatively but it was the correct business decision.
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Maybe, but to lie about how that wouldn't happen is certainly a PR blunder... Unless, Ms already decided anyone who still play on Xbox is perfectly fine with being deceived. And so far they might be right.
 
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It's not just for xbox one though - it's for PC's of multiple configurations. The launch date audience is potentially 200 million customers excluding Gamepass users on Android and iOS.

Time will tell if that was a prudent decision.
 
TheGrat1 said:
Designing it with the Series X as a baseline would have meant 343i spending 2 1/2 years in pre-production, twiddling their thumbs. Untenable from a business standpoint. The Series X hardware was nowhere close to finalized at that time. Zen 1 and RDNA1 did not even exist when this game started development, let alone Zen 2, RDNA2. Plus, unless they were going to have 343i put out some smaller Halo game as a stopgap, putting this on Series X and PC only would have left nearly all of their gamepass subscribers in the cold. Something they can not do.

No doubt the One is holding this game back technically and therefore creatively but it was the correct business decision.
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They would have developed it for a powerful PC and ported to Series X when dev kits became available.
 
-Arcadia- said:
Not quite. A single XSX-based hardware in their facilities will act as four different base Xbox One consoles, streaming four base Xbox One streams to different users.

This was confirmed and gone over in detail at the Series X reveals earlier this year. They were quite proud of the hardware being able to do this.

The changeover will assuredly happen one day, but for now, Microsoft is more focused on sheer efficiency and economics for XCloud.
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From the moment a game won't be available for current gen systems, it will use the full blade, right? So for example The Medium, don't you think it will be available on xCloud soon?
 
X-Fighter said:
From the moment a game won't be available for current gen systems, it will use the full blade, right? So for example The Medium, don't you think it will be available on xCloud soon?
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That would be lovely, but I didn't get that takeaway from the available info. Everything points at streaming out games at base XO levels, period, with nothing mentioned beyond that.
 
DeltaPolarBear said:
Maybe, but to lie about how that wouldn't happen is certainly a PR blunder... Unless, Ms already decided anyone who still play on Xbox is perfectly fine with being deceived. And so far they might be right.
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The PR was terrible and anyone with a brain stem that was not a fanboy knew they were bullshitting us, but I consider that a separate issue. By starting development in early 2016 with no plans to release anything between 5 and Infinite, this was the only hand they could play.
Rudius said:
They would have developed it for a powerful PC and ported to Series X when dev kits became available.
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Which PC? The Nvidia 2080, the gpu most equivalent to the one in the Series X in power, did not release until September 2018. The game was in development for 2 1/2 years at that point. Plus the architecture they would be coding for would not exist for years (RDNA2 technically is not even out yet).
I would imagine simply picking a tflop number and designing to that is not practical. Hardware finalization would play a huge factor. Microsoft would not choose system components they could not cool, and even if they strapped a couple of Gpus together there is no way they would know what kind of thermal profile they would be dealing with back in 2016. If it turned out that twelve tflops was impractical to put into a 2020 APU they would have been designing a game for a system that will never exist.
Even if they had full knowledge of the Series X specs back in 2016 the main problem is that development for Infinite started too early. With no red meat to throw to gamepass between 5 and Infinite they were stuck with putting this on the One. This is a business decision, primarily, and in my opinion the correct one. It is the only way Xbox can play the the hand they were dealt.
 
-Arcadia- said:
That would be lovely, but I didn't get that takeaway from the available info. Everything points at streaming out games at base XO levels, period, with nothing mentioned beyond that.
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Wouldn't make sense. I mean I get why they would do this in the beginning, because the infrastructure to homes isn't there to support 4K gaming properly yet, but this will change in the future
 
TheGrat1 said:
The PR was terrible and anyone with a brain stem that was not a fanboy knew they were bullshitting us, but I consider that a separate issue. By starting development in early 2016 with no plans to release anything between 5 and Infinite, this was the only hand they could play.

Which PC? The Nvidia 2080, the gpu most equivalent to the one in the Series X in power, did not release until September 2018. The game was in development for 2 1/2 years at that point. Plus the architecture they would be coding for would not exist for years (RDNA2 technically is not even out yet).
I would imagine simply picking a tflop number and designing to that is not practical. Hardware finalization would play a huge factor. Microsoft would not choose system components they could not cool, and even if they strapped a couple of Gpus together there is no way they would know what kind of thermal profile they would be dealing with back in 2016. If it turned out that twelve tflops was impractical to put into a 2020 APU they would have been designing a game for a system that will never exist.
Even if they had full knowledge of the Series X specs back in 2016 the main problem is that development for Infinite started too early. With no red meat to throw to gamepass between 5 and Infinite they were stuck with putting this on the One. This is a business decision, primarily, and in my opinion the correct one. It is the only way Xbox can play the the hand they were dealt.
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Developers aim for broad target specs every new generation.
1080TI would be close enough, plus a first gen Ryzen 8 core CPU, NVME drive and 16 Gigs of RAM. Much better than developing it for Xbox One.
 
Nah, the game itself needs to be fun. Halo was never about graphics. Never. Its not a "cinematic" experience. Its all about gameplay with halo.
 
Orky said:
Nah, the game itself needs to be fun. Halo was never about graphics. Never. Its not a "cinematic" experience. Its all about gameplay with halo.
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THIS

EDIT:
If anything, the thing that made Halo stand out was the artstyle. The different shades of purple and magenta for anything related to the Covenant, the strong greens in contrast with the cold greys for Halo and the Forerunner shit on Halo, etc. Halo was very readable in that regard, while still maintaining a style.
 
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giphy.gif
 
They Wii U'd the Xbox One. Halo Infinite was surely meant to be the crown-jewel following Halo 5, but they decided to push it Breath of the Wild style to the upcoming system.
 
Orky said:
Nah, the game itself needs to be fun. Halo was never about graphics. Never. Its not a "cinematic" experience. Its all about gameplay with halo.
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I wouldn't say it was never about graphics. Halo 1 and 2 both used bump mapping and advanced physics (for the time), and also had massive skyboxes and levels that seemed very large as well. Halo 3 was mocked for its "Fisher Price weapons" and color scheme but I remember the graphics being quite the looker then, too.
 
If they showcased it as an Xbox One game over series x it would've been better... even if it does seem a bit worse looking than all open world games post-Witcher3
 
DunDunDunpachi said:
I wouldn't say it was never about graphics. Halo 1 and 2 both used bump mapping and advanced physics (for the time), and also had massive skyboxes and levels that seemed very large as well. Halo 3 was mocked for its "Fisher Price weapons" and color scheme but I remember the graphics being quite the looker then, too.
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Definitely. Anything to the contrary is revisionism.

The upgrade from Perfect Dark N64's hallways into stunning open vistas that stretched on forever (for the time), with vehicles, unprecedented enemy counts, and all manner of effects, delivered at beautiful fidelity, was jaw-dropping, and the entire justification for buying the original Xbox hardware.

Bungie pushed it insanely further with 2, arguably too far, as quality suffered, but technical boundaries were utterly smashed for that release as well.

3 and Reach started to see them fall behind, but they were still doing crazy things nobody else was. Then, for all of 343's faults, they knocked the visuals for 4 out of the park (the game still looks stunning), and did a wonderful job on 5 as well.

Never has Halo turned in a game that looked two generations behind. That's a brand-new thing.
 
If this was a traditional halo title I would say its worth it to launch on both as the work would likely scale easier since theres not the need to optimize an open worldish game thats supposed to run at 60 FPS on all consoles.

But I do find it baffaling that this is supposed to the THE Halo game for the next X amount of years. Its clear Microsoft is not having a different studio develop the Xbox One/X version of this game meaning 343 will have to support this title across potentially 5 devices for a minimum of 5 years by the way they are talking. Its very clearly already taxing the team and especially since this is a new direction for Halo it would make more sense to me to not include what will be last gen machines.

Maybe they will drop One/X support at some time but that seems like a dumb move that will likely piss some people off. Would be easier to just get out ahead of it and not make it for those machines.
 
They have the right approach for Halo, they can't not release it on the platform folks have been waiting years for.

Problem is they need another game to showcase the power of the system but they don't have one (yet)
 
The install base for the series X will be extremely limited out the gate and MS knows that, which its why its coming to Xbox one.

I don't think we will see PS5 and Series X exclusive titles until 2021 but even then it will not be a lot
 
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It's like Twilight Princess or Breath of the Wild again. Both were first party exclusive cross gen titles that were part of the launch title range on the newer console.

It could work. The gameplay did look fun at least.
 
Well, I don't think that this is a mistake. You can design a game with scaling in mind.
Xbox one and PS4 are just "normal" PCs. Graphics can be scaled back quite easily. Just reduce the texture resolution, the resolution, the viewdistance, ... and it is working. The CPU side is a bit more complicated, but if you already have reduced the view distance, that this is less of a problem.
Even the SSD and memory is not that significant of a problem, if you have already reduced resolution on the assets. Yes it wouldn't look that good, but it would still run without holding any faster system back.

The lighting on the other hand, well lets just say, it is far more complex to add good lighting if you already designed your game with RT in mind.

Graphics aren't important. The game as a whole should be fun. And currently Halo looks more like what was promised with the original Halo, a big vast world without a artificial barrier (well at some point there will be one, but not as limited).

But well, I guess, if you have competition and hype the fans with a really good looking first trailer, than there should be at least a technical showcase of what to expect.
I would really have been impressed, if they would have used a sniper rifle from that tower, and zoomed in on a grunt that was on he other side of the mountain. But if grass pops in and out right before the camera, you know something is really broken and you don't want to present something like this, only if you present it as pre-alpha. But from what we've saw, I really would expect this to be the xbone one x version and not the series x version.
 
Nikana said:
But I do find it baffaling that this is supposed to the THE Halo game for the next X amount of years.
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They have positioned it as an evolving platform similar to iRacing which does make sense considering GamePass/xCloud. Fuck - it wouldn't shock me if Halo Infinite was free to play on iOS/Android via xCloud as subscription bait.

As to it being THE Halo game for the next 10 years - I won't be surprised to see alternative (non FPS) Halo games from other MS first party developers during that time.

I'll play it once through in co-op, yawn, then move on.
 
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Gamezone said:
It's too late at this point. Microsoft also don't seem to care how many new consoles they sell. It's all about software and Gamepass now.
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They have to care somewhat though as they haven't revealed the price yet and are trying to undercut Sony. And selling new consoles gets people into your ecosystem so that you can sell them gamepass
 
RyuCookingSomeRice said:
It's not like the Xbox One has been doing fantastically well in the sales department. What Microsoft REALLY needed for next gen was a reset back to zero. Forget the Xbox One, it was a massive failure. Sure let all the XBO games be playable on the new console, but no more new first party releases on the thing for gods sakes.
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MS needs to sell people GamePass subscriptions, so no can do.
 
Orky said:
Nah, the game itself needs to be fun. Halo was never about graphics. Never. Its not a "cinematic" experience. Its all about gameplay with halo.
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Halo 3 looked incredible graphically and Halo 4 was the best looking Xbox360 game. There's no excuse for why it can't look good and play good
 
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